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Glennstavos

Your top 3 balance changes to FE16

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Let's say you had the power to change three things about Three Houses' gameplay. I'm not asking for content additions like new classes or skills. We have to work with what is in the game. And try to keep your suggestions singular. Something like "make all breakers grant +30Hit/Avoid against the appropriate opponent" is changing five different skills. 

  1. Make Wyvern Lord require Armor rank A in place of Lance rank C: While no Master class has three A rank requirements, it's easy to agree this is the best of the master classes for any physical unit. Armor knights only get Great Knight as a shared option with cavs who have four choices, and it is the hardest to class into with two B+ ranks and an A. I think this change will partially balance the domination of wyvern lords while also throwing a bone to armor proficient units.
  2. Make Seminars have activity points in line with the Battle option each day off. It boggles the mind that one seminar in this universe takes up as much time as 10 advanced training sessions with ten different partners in addition to anything else you can do while exploring. While this change would not make Seminars immediately compete with the Explore option, I think it is the best, single adjustment to get it part of the way there. 
  3. Increase class experience gain by 1 point natively: When you first start the game you're getting just a single point per encounter, which gets increased by another point thanks to one of the Renown Statues. But I find mastering classes far too slow in this game, especially for such pitiful rewards on most of them. The rate at which you master beginner and intermediate classes is so slow outside of NG+, and the game is often over before some of your units can finish up their master class. 

 

Runner ups

  • Nerf Death Blow to grant only +3 attack: so that it compares better to the other Blow skills
  • Make it so you can swap in a new skill the moment you learn it: If we were talking general QOL changes, this would be easy top 3. So annoying to be partway through a map before noticing you forgot to equip something important. But even when speaking strictly of gameplay this issue really hurts when you can't equip an excellent late game skill like Quick Riposte or if your Byleth is too loaded up on Prowess skills to equip Death Blow.

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1. Remove lance requirement for Dark/Holy Knight. If i'm making a unit one of these classes, i'm using them as a mounted mage and never actually using lances on them (unless their name is Sylvain). Why should Lysithea and Mercedes have to waste time in a weapon that they suck at and get nothing out of just to get this class? I'd say the same for Bow Knights, but at least that's a physical class and transitions relatively cleanly from Paladin.

2. Make Stride only buff unmounted units. Won't stop Wyvern Emblem from being as stupid as it is, but it would lessen the gap between them and Assassins/War Masters at the very least.

3. Give Edelgard's personal class Reason magic for the love of Sothis. Claude gets a custom tailored version of the best class in the game. Dimitri gets the closest thing we have to a Halberdier/Sentinel. Edelgard gets...Fortress Knight but with a buttload of charm. ok. The class even has a +10% Magic growth but they do nothing with it. Wyvern would still be better for her, but having an Armored mage with Luna and Bolganone would be pretty damn cool. Or better yet just add the Baron from FE4 already you cowards.

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36 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Nerf Death Blow to grant only +3 attack:

Might as well nerf Fiendish Blow as well.

My choices are:

Buff movement of mages in general. I just don't get why mages got the movement nerfbat here, especially as they were not particularly good in Fates, and Echoes was a remake and also had terrible mage movement. Speaking of movement, why are Hero, Swordmaster, Sniper and Warrior have only 5 movement, while Assassin, Grappler and dismounted Paladin (wtf IS?) have 6?

Rebalance master classes: Nerf to Wyvern Lord speed (it shouldn't be this fast, especially when seeing as how Wyvern Rider has 0% speed) and remove its Avoid +10 (why is that skill even there), maybe a small defense buff to compensate, buff to Great Knight strength/dexterity/defense so it can actually compare to both Paladin and other master classes, buff Mortal Savant speed (wtf is this shit -10% on non-mounted/armored class, considering Wyvern Lord got 10% out of nowhere), Replace Holy Knight's Terrain Resistance with White Magic Uses x2 so that it's not worse than Bishop at being support. War Master/Gremory are good, genderlock aside, Bow Knight already has shit growths and rides out on OPness of bows, Dark Knight is also fine, Falcon Knight i need more knowledge.

Add more Master classes. We need a sword Master class that is not Mortal Savant, we need a Brawl class that females can use (maybe the same as sword?), we need a class that Paladin can go to that is not a sidegrade, etc...

10 minutes ago, Jakkun said:

1. Remove lance requirement for Dark/Holy Knight. If i'm making a unit one of these classes, i'm using them as a mounted mage and never actually using lances on them (unless their name is Sylvain). Why should Lysithea and Mercedes have to waste time in a weapon that they suck at and get nothing out of just to get this class? I'd say the same for Bow Knights, but at least that's a physical class and transitions relatively cleanly from Paladin.

Considering the requirement is only C (= can be reached really fast), i'm not seeing the problem. Besides, if you're making Mercedes a Holy Knight, you're using her wrong, same with Lysithea, IMO Gremory is better for extra Physics/Warps/Fortifies/High level offensives. I'd say lower the riding req, A is a bit high. Also, no mention of Dark Knight Lorenz?

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25 minutes ago, Kruggov said:

Might as well nerf Fiendish Blow as well.

If were to adjust all the Blows, it and Darting Blow would go down to +4 and Armored Blow up to +6. But I have an explicit rule of all suggestions being singular. Adjusting four skills is four changes. The reason why I'm not so hard on Fiendish Blow is that unlike physical weapon users, magic users have no access to brave weapons (gauntlet users with death blow get a straight up +10 increase without having to double which is nuts), so the boost to damage per hit isn't quite as crucial. And magic proficient characters have so few magic using classes throughout the game that I wouldn't want to nerf their options too hard.

Quote

My choices are:

Buff movement of mages in general.

That is not a singular change.

Quote

Rebalance master classes: 

This is not a singular change.

Quote

Add more Master classes. We need a sword Master class that is not Mortal Savant, we need a Brawl class that females can use (maybe the same as sword?), we need a class that Paladin can go to that is not a sidegrade, etc...

I specifically asked for no content additions. 

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3) allowig the player to organize a character's skillset should s/he learn a new one during a battle

2) allowing the player to select a looped version of mercedes saying "ara ara" as a background music

1) general difficulty improvements, mostly enemies with pretty much the same skill and weapon availability as the player (3H reminded me a lot of KH3, where you can do so many absurdly powerful things that enemies become dust in an istant)

i'm generally against nerfs, because they don't fix problems, they simply create different ones

instead of nerfing death blow or wyvern lords, why not making enemies as powerful as your units, who can use death blow and be wyvern lords because you can decide how to build your units? why not giving close counter to almost every enemy, since you only need to get bow rank c to get close counter? why should you be advantaged? where's the challenge?

why not giving enemies skills they shouldn't even have? i mean, so many jrpgs break their own rules, even pokemon does it, just think about lance and his overlevelled dragonites

this is not lunatic awakening, enemies don't have luna or other skills based on percentage, so the RNG from this point of view is not a problem, then why not giving an enemy wyvern lord every blow skill (minus fiendish blow), quick riposte and, i don't know, immunity to bows as a personal skill, because he's a miniboss and, if we want to contestualize it, he's a strong general who fought god knows how many battles, so he eventually managed to overcome his mount's weakness to bows

and no, i'm not talking about higher difficulties, you can beat this game in hard mode even if blindfolded and without using hands because you're using one to nose pick and the other to jerk off thinking about dorothea's breasts

by the way, i think i explained myself: i want a harder game which does not consider "more enemies" is "more difficulty" because in this case this equation doesn't work

Edited by Yexin

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If changes and additions to core features are allowed:

1) Atk when using bows are now based on Dex.

2) Mov now factors negatively into AS.

Example:

Base AS = Spd - (WT - (Str/5)) - (Mov - 4)

3) HP stat now recovers damage taken by (HP/2)% of the damage. The recovery is done during combat at the moment damage is inflicted.

Formula:

HP Recovered = Damage taken * (HP/200)

Edited by Hyper L

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1. All Advanced physical infantry get 6 mov, not just Assassin and Brawler (Grappler?).

2. Wyvern classes have the same speed penalties to stats and growths as Paladins.

3. Mounted units can't use infantry battalions, just flying and mounted.

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2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

This is not a singular change.

Quote

1. Flyers trade Canto for Pass

2. Magic classes have set spell lists with units having a few unique spells to them.

3. All classes use magic.

Since I'm pretty sure you're not going to consider 2 as valid, I cant really go into more detail on these without guaranteeing it wouldn't be a "singular change." However the point would be that dark mage kinda sucks if you're not Hubert, if dark mage had its own spell list (essentially Hubert's spell list) then suddenly anyone who becomes a dark mage is much more viable, and it would differentiate from normal mages more and make dark seals actually have value. Hubert would benefit still as each spell in the dark mage line that he already had would allow for doubled uses, acting as the dark uses x2 skill but more flexible. furthermore, dark mag would be made gender neutral and be the natural progression for Lys and Hubert. Non-magic classes wouldn't offer spells and so most would be limited in what they can use from their personal skills. Holy knight would have a powerful faith offensive list, new faith spells would be added to make them effective mage/dark mage killers as they were meant to be in the GBA games. Flyers would be given pass and generally have their stats nerfed, their role would be opportunity killers that would have a consistent threat range, however they would be designed to be weaker than cav and infantry (or at least not easiy able to survive flying n the middle of a horde) except in the units the are good at killing (pegs as early mage killers, wyvs as specialist can openers) This could be worked in with a new line of Slayer skills, or perhaps a class triangle where certain movement types would have an advantage against another.

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1: Get rid of class faires. In a game that's supposed to let you use any weapon with any class with few exceptions, adding +5 attack to the traditional weapon type of the class only serves to make most classes even more boring than before. Paladins used to be able to use swords and lances, but now they're heavily encouraged to only use lances, and axes are just objectively worse.

2: Let any class use magic. The mages' class skills already provide enough incentive to use them for dedicated magic users, and it's disappointing how restrictive the magic system is until it only barely gets more fun at master rank. I want flying and armored mages dang it!

3: Cut back on support growth. This is kind of cheating, but I hated how automatic getting supports is and how little conscious thought it requires, and how it floods my support list with pairings I have no investment in. I want unlocking conversations to be an active investment on my part I care about by the time the support unlocks, like in other games.

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Definitely something to shake up the tedium of the weekly grind, and something to make multiple playthroughs more mechanically varied.

1) Replace Battle Points with Weekend Points. Allow us to mix and match battles, seminars and rest. e.g. at A+ professor level, you can still do 3x auxiliary battles like now, or you can do one battle, one seminar and one rest, etc. Explore probably has to remain its own thing though.

2) Allow manual selection of Byleth's skill strengths. Choose up to four.

3) Have the above selections passively modify Byleth's stat growths, e.g. choosing Brawl increases Strength growth.

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On 9/13/2019 at 1:58 AM, CyberNinja said:

1. Flyers trade Canto for Pass

I really like that change. Definitely helps the brokenness of fliers.

I'll steal that for my first.

2. Let mounted classes use any physical melee weapon for advancement. So you can have a Sword or Axe Paladin, or a bow knight via Sword C. If giving faire skill, make it the one they have rank A in.

3. Give some reason to master heavy armour. Not sure on the specific yet, but atm it's kinda useless beyond level C.

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I've got two:

 1. Make all bows work like the Mini Bow in that they can't double at one range.

 2. Make dismounting (and possibly mounting, though I'm not sure about that one) take a turn.

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Since the context of a balance change is too great for new class additions, moving the classes around could also be a solid alternative.

 

1. Move Hero to Master, add Axefaire, and increase movement to 6. Also increase growth rates and add a Sword combat art as a reward. Increase axe req to A.

 

2. Move Assassin to Master, improve growth rates, and increase movement to 7. Increase Bow req to A.

 

3. Increase stats, not decrease them, while dismounted.

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3 minutes ago, Etheus said:

3. Increase stats, not decrease them, while dismounted.

Given that you can mount and dismount at will, flying over a river and dismounting in a forest and then flying over a river next turn into another forest seamlessly, having your cake and eating it too...

...That would just make fliers even more broken.

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1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Given that you can mount and dismount at will, flying over a river and dismounting in a forest and then flying over a river next turn into another forest seamlessly, having your cake and eating it too...

...That would just make fliers even more broken.

I mean they could always have dismounting not be allowable after moving...

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I really like fliers having canto traded for pass, that's a good one.

Have seminars give a proportional amount of rank instead of the set number. They give way, way too little rank after like month 2.

No one has said dismounting costs a turn yet? Feels like an obvious one

Edited by Boomhauer007
discounting --> dismounting

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On 9/13/2019 at 2:23 AM, Humanoid said:

1) Replace Battle Points with Weekend Points. Allow us to mix and match battles, seminars and rest. e.g. at A+ professor level, you can still do 3x auxiliary battles like now, or you can do one battle, one seminar and one rest, etc. Explore probably has to remain its own thing though.

2) Allow manual selection of Byleth's skill strengths. Choose up to four.

1. YES! As for Explore being its own thing, I was thinking you could scrap the "separate activity bars" thing and just have the same points across all activities, i.e. battles and seminars now cost 3 activity points out of the 10 you get at Rank A+. Granted this screws up the early game for battles (since it takes a little while to build up to 3 activity points), so you'd have to tweak a bit more about the early game for everything to work out...

2. While I'm not going to select this as one of my own, I like this idea. While I think it's great that Byleth is their own person, this would add another layer of replayability.

On 9/12/2019 at 9:58 PM, Jakkun said:

1. Remove lance requirement for Dark/Holy Knight. If i'm making a unit one of these classes, i'm using them as a mounted mage and never actually using lances on them (unless their name is Sylvain). Why should Lysithea and Mercedes have to waste time in a weapon that they suck at and get nothing out of just to get this class? I'd say the same for Bow Knights, but at least that's a physical class and transitions relatively cleanly from Paladin.

Yes, please! It bugs me that Lances are required for so many of the Master classes, but there was one (technically two) case where I'd change that it'd be this one.

3. Make seminars worthwhile. Let us attend more as we gain activity points and boost the stat EXP it grants (being able to manually select who attends instead of changing their goals would also be great, but I think that's stepping outside the bounds of the question).

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1) Remove the Mount command. You leave your mount, you're on your own.

2) Globally cap Movement at 10 or something.

3) Give fliers terrain costs. This is far from singular but it's by far the biggest change needed to curtail flier dominance, and yes, I can think of terrain types/maps it would be justified on.

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1. Make the Fortress Knight's Mastery skill Quick Riposte.

2. Make Fliers unable to use their mount indoors.

3. Grant Mortal Savant the Hexblade Combat art from SoV instead of Warding Blow (Brave effect on sword that deals magical damage).

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1.) Either allow multiple seminars per week based on Professor level or improve the single seminar to give more EXP.  A single seminar is currently nearly worthless.

2.) Allow Edelgard's unique classes to cast magic.  Because just... why?  Why give Edelgard good magic growth and give Emperor a 10% magic growth bonus, then NOT let her cast magic?

3.) Change Canto to how it was in the GBA games.

 

Runner-up/non-singular Ideas:

-Remove gender-locked classes.

-Add additional penalties to fliers, such as restricting them from using bows and giving stat penalties when dismounted.

-Nerf Close Counter so that it cannot double.

-Rework the required skills for several of the Master classes.

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There are a lot of great ideas in this thread. I agree with most of them. My main 3 suggestions would be:

6 hours ago, Etheus said:

1. Move Hero to Master, add Axefaire, and increase movement to 6. Also increase growth rates and add a Sword combat art as a reward. Increase axe req to A.

1) The above + remove gender restrictions. They could even name the combat art Solar Strike and make it Wrath Strike + 30% heal - 1 might; just give Heroes something aside Vantage not taking up a slot. Let Petra be a Hero.

2) Add move-type skill levels to seminars, but with less scaling. The protagonist would no longer be forced to Faculty Train ~4 times (or be lucky with low chance pass rates) to try the related classes, and it would speed up the certifications for other characters as well. The lower scaling would be to avoid instant bumps to high levels once the instructors are recruited and trained.

3) Invert the Spd (growth/modifier) bonuses in Wyvern Lord and the Str bonuses in Falcon Knight, and adjust Bow Knight's Spd modifier to -1(-2 while mounted).

Some other runner-up ideas I'd like are:

•add Wary Fighter to Fortress Knight as a class skill

•adjust the move of the other final infantry classes to 6

•remove the gender locks or create substitutes with the same skills/slightly rearranged growths (like Sage as male Gremory sub)

•give the Monk class Ember (5 use weaker Fire) and Remedy (3 use, heal 5 + Mag/4) class skills

•Felix learns some extra Reason spells like Sagittae & Cutting Gale

•Hubert, Mercedes and Hanneman learn a magic bow combat art

•Recover becomes 1-3 range

•Snipers master Fistbreaker (mostly just to get it somewhere)

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I don't know how would OP count it, but:

  • Remove Range+1 class skill for Archer
  • Remove Range+1 class skill for Sniper
  • Remove Range+2 class skill for Bow Knight

...I personally don't want to actually do these since I love being overpowered, but OP is asking for balance changes.

Actually, if I'm to make the game more balanced, I'd also remove the range+1 skills for reaching S in faith and reason (or at least move them to S+ and give faire to S instead), and rework both range-up staves to some other effects. Being able to hit from afar really makes any risks magic and bow users have much less pronounced. I'd still remove the class skills first, since reaching S weapon rank isn't exactly easy.

Not that I'd really complain; bow and magic users are my favourite type of units.

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1. more standardized weapon uses. im not opposed to gauntlets having the most uses because that makes sense and steel weapons having higher uses then iron makes sense to as an incentive to use them, but lances having 10 less uses then swords and 15 less then axes on average seems... stupid?

2. no gender locked classes

3. give heroes access to sol. i dont believe its in the game and it would be at least a little more incentive to use them.

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