Canto or no Canto?

[Alastor15243]

I'm torn. On one hand, it blatantly makes mounted units overpowered compared to foot units when they generally already are even in the games that don't have it, but on the other hand, it's also really fun and cool to use and results in a lot of cool strategies, so like Yexin said, I'd love to try giving foot units their own ability that's different from, but comparable to, canto.

[Vince777]

I mean.. I like it but mounted units already seem overpowered without it so giving them this premium skill has always appeared to be too much.

[X-Naut]

I'm in agreement with Aggro, mounted units can keep Canto but IS needs to crack down on their freedom of movement. There's too little keeping them from outpacing infantry on any given map. I also like the idea of swapping Canto for Pass on fliers.

Another idea I thought up is that Canto only triggers after battle if the user doesn't take damage, and possibly even if they only make one attack. If you get hit with a meaningful force or stick around to strike multiple times you're losing momentum.

Edited September 21, 2019 by X-Naut

[Mukmuk]

I think that Canto is fine as it is (just no FE4 canto, please). Canto makes sense for horse units- attack and retreat. 

The main problem is fixing mounted units in general. Dismount sounds like a good idea (I’ve heard that Thracia had this mechanism). 

Or, give everyone canto or remove canto entirely. Obviously this doesn’t even scratch the surface but this is just from  the top of my head. I’ll think of more stuff later.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Keep canto, probably in some GBA-type form.

It's a defining feature of mounted units. It's useful, and it lets you do a lot of cool, interesting stuff.
It's also not like Sain and Kent totally obsolete, say, Raven and Lucius.

Making canto a blanket thing or forcing dismounting seem like kind of inelegant solutions.

[Emperor Hardin]

16 hours ago, X-Naut said:

I'm in agreement with Aggro, mounted units can keep Canto but IS needs to crack down on their freedom of movement. There's too little keeping them from outpacing infantry on any given map. I also like the idea of swapping Canto for Pass on fliers.

Another idea I thought up is that Canto only triggers after battle if the user doesn't take damage, and possibly even if they only make one attack. If you get hit with a meaningful force or stick around to strike multiple times you're losing momentum.

The bolded was done in TearRing Saga.

[henrymidfields]

On 9/22/2019 at 2:54 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Keep canto, probably in some GBA-type form.

It's a defining feature of mounted units. It's useful, and it lets you do a lot of cool, interesting stuff.
IMaking canto a blanket thing or forcing dismounting seem like kind of inelegant solutions.

Same here. The rescue command is one reason why having foot units alongside mounts are viable.

If anything, how about restricting anti-cavalry weapons to infantries, and introducing anti-cavalry traps like caltrops? And enemies should field anti-cavalry weapons in larger numbers than what is generally par in the series. Like 1 in 6-8 enemies in mid-chapters and 1 in 4 in endgame, and even higher in upper difficulties.

Edited September 24, 2019 by henrymidfields

[Von Ithipathachai]

13 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

Same here. The rescue command is one reason why having foot units alongside mounts are viable.

If anything, how about restricting anti-cavalry weapons to infantries, and introducing anti-cavalry traps like caltrops? And enemies should field anti-cavalry weapons in larger numbers than what is generally par in the series.

I wonder if said Caltrop spaces could be safely crossed by Armored units.  Even if their boots aren't able to protect them, maybe their slower movement would let them spot traps more easily?  I dunno.

[henrymidfields]

8 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I wonder if said Caltrop spaces could be safely crossed by Armored units.  Even if their boots aren't able to protect them, maybe their slower movement would let them spot traps more easily?  I dunno.

Good point. Maybe make caltrop spaces inaccessible for cavalry (or assign a damage penalty), assign damage/movement penalties for normal infantry, and have armor units be immune? And in higher difficulties, cavalries cannot spot traps unless adjacent to traps, while infantry and armor can see them from 3 spaces away. And armor has the option to stop right in front.

[Sasori]

I don't think Canto in itself is a problem, but having Canto is better then not having it 100% of the time. Being a mounted unit meanwhile is better then being a not mounted unit in 90% of circumstances. I think Canto/mounted movement in itself is fine, but that it should either have more relevant drawbacks or other units should get more fancy toys of their own.

 

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Sasori said:

 I think Canto/mounted movement in itself is fine, but that it should either have more relevant drawbacks or other units should get more fancy toys of their own.

Coincidentally I made a topic about that.

https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/89446-what-could-be-the-canto-for-armor-classes/

[Flere210]

Canto should be on units whit bad combat that have no business being in the frontline in the first place. It's core problem is that the units that have it always happen to be good enought to beat the whole maps whitout having to wait other people. If Sigurd had Arden stats and skills he would not be able to pull off half of the shit he does in his game, at least untill the pursuit ring. The same if Harr had Fiona stats.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

My "how would you fix canto" answer was always removing the ability to double. Because the mounted unit is doing a hit and run, there's no time to perform a followup swing. I also considered "hit and run" as an option alongside "attack", but that just gives mounted units a lot of additional choice to make up for the nerf that I don't think is warranted

[Arachnofiend]

Canto is so strong that a mounted unit would have to be flagrantly worse for killing enemy units for you to consider an infantry instead. Get rid of it, give horses nothing to compensate.