Equippable Abilities Tier List

[Shadow Mir]

54 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

I answered this earlier: Byleth: White Magic Avoid +20, Faith Proficiency, Sword Proficiency, Weight -3 +1 spare skill (maybe +1 Mov or maybe Axebreaker).

 

 Still room for Death Blow too. 5 abilities is a lot to play with. I guess it could be Alert Stance+ at endgame, but once again, White Magic Avoid +20 comes into play after your 6th +Faith discussion with Rhea, its an incredibly early ability. You can get +Faith before you get +2 Speed from Myrmidon mastery even. Even if you think that Alert Stance or Alert Stance+ is worthwhile on Byleth, it still brings up the question "why not both" ?? Alert Stance + White Magic Avoid +20 will give Byleth more than enough avoid to dodge pretty much everything, but he probably has to stay in Enlightened One status for that to happen.

So you're willing to give up two ability slots for skills that are pretty useless on Byleth. Absurd. Aside from that, you also need C Armor (IIRC, only Gilbert trains in heavy armor). Alert Stance requires B Flying (have fun with that if you are playing as a male since your only flying class options are advanced classes or higher).

[dragontamer]

24 minutes ago, timon said:

Paladin only wants B/B, has one more Mov, comes 10 levels earlier, has Lancefaire, and you don't have to lose your time with WORTHLESS faith (we're talking heal and restore! Honestly?). And you can use that time to get bows and go into Bow Knight, which is just behind Wyvern Lord for the "most broken" award. Bows are conveniently the best weapon in general, and using a lance early on means Tempest Lance and Knightkneeler, a lot more relevant than tanking with a 1mt-8wt spell if you ask me.

The point is, you don't want to invest anything into White Magic for Byleth (it takes 12 activity points just to unlock his talent!), he doesn't get Physic, no Fortify, no Rescue, no Warp, no Abraxas, no Seraphim, it's complete and utter TRASH. If you go Holy Knight you have to lose your time for worthless spells, at that point you might as well go Dark Knight, at least you have something to do with your magic. Or just go WL/BK which are straight up better.

 

Just to be clear on what you are proposing. It takes 960 Wexp for Byleth to get B+ Faith, and he gets either +6 wexp per heal / Nosferatsu (1 + 3 Enlightened one x1.5), or +9 if you got the statue (x2 with knowledge gem, but everyone wants the knowledge gem so lets ignore it for the purposes of this post). If you do this through drills, its 32 activity points into +Faith.
 

And you consider this to be "more" opportunity cost than going for 1280 Wexp for Bow-proficiency, when Byleth doesn't even have skill bonuses in Bows. You're saying "12 activity points" is a lot for unlocking White Magic Avoid +20, but its 64 activity points to reach proper Bow-proficiency to get into Bow Knight. BTW: You need those 64 activity points to qualify for A-riding as well. Its not exactly easy to qualify for endgame riding classes. Your bow-knight route is going to take a lot more activity points than my proposal.

 

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EDIT: Holy Knight Byleth requires 64 Activity Points (Riding A), 32-Faith activity points, and 15 Activity points (C Lances). A grand total of 111 activity points of advanced drills to fully qualify for Holy Knight.

 

Bow Knight Byleth requires 64 Activity Points (Riding), 64 Activity Points (Bow), 15 Activity Points (lances). 143 activity points. Ditto for Wyvern Lord Byleth.

 

Paladin Byleth requires 48 (Riding) + 48 (Lances), 96 activity points. Which seems like the best option.

 

FalcoKnight Byleth needs 48 Flying + 64 Lances, but probably automatically qualifies for C Swords.

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Restore is actually good on Byleth, because he doesn't have the magic to heal you all the way back up with Physic or Heal. Restore + Canto + 7 movement mitigates the weakness severely by endgame.

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I forgot Paladin was B Lance / B Riding. That suggests that Paladin is actually a good endgame class for Byleth. No need to promote to master rank honestly if you want to be locked to physical only. That's 48 activity points into Riding, 48 activity points into Lance, which is doable for sure. Honestly, sticking with Paladin through endgame is the best option if you don't plan to use magic. Honestly, I don't see what the Lance gets me... Byleth has access to Ruptured Heaven / Sublime Heaven for +7/+10 might and 1-2 range... and that's locked to a particular Sword. So Byleth should be using Swords IMO in any case where the +damage matters.

 

Byleth only wants Lance to qualify for his endgame horse (or flier) class.

Edited September 22, 2019 by dragontamer

[Elephantus]

19 minutes ago, timon said:

he point is, you don't want to invest anything into White Magic for Byleth (it takes 12 activity points just to unlock his talent!)

Just three actually, as far as I'm aware.

(disclaimer: I'm not supporting either side in this argument, just wanted to throw that in)

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

Byleth has access to Ruptured Heaven and that's locked to a particular Sword.

Which has only 20 durability and needs rare materials to repair. Tempest Lance adds 8 might to your attack and is usable with common weapons.

[dragontamer]

9 minutes ago, Elephantus said:

Just three actually, as far as I'm aware.

(disclaimer: I'm not supporting either side in this argument, just wanted to throw that in)

 

I think 6. Its more than 3, but less than 9. I need to restart my game to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure its only 6x facilities training / advanced drills for Byleth's budding talent.

Edited September 22, 2019 by dragontamer

[Elephantus]

1 minute ago, dragontamer said:

 

I think 6. Its more than 3, but less than 9. I need to restart my game to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure its only 6x facilities training / advanced drills for Byleth's budding talent.

Ah, fair enough. I do distinctly remember it taking less time to unlock than usual when having Byleth tutoring students, but I might be off about the exact amount.

[Cysx]

4 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

 

I think 6. Its more than 3, but less than 9. I need to restart my game to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure its only 6x facilities training / advanced drills for Byleth's budding talent.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's 6 as well.

[LegendOfLoog]

I'll just nominate the following since I haven't seen anyone bring up these skills yet.I'm just going to do NU for now because there are a lot of skills that deserve to be there. 

• NU 
  • All of the available Crit +10 Skills. While an S is reasonable with enough investment and specialization, the reward is not very useful. There a few niche builds that may use them, but it's pretty much just filler. Even Wrath + Vantage builds generally have enough crit without these skills, so these can be replaced fairly easily. 
  • All Defiant abilities excluding Defiant Avoid. 25% or less HP is dangerous territory, and all of the stat stick ones don't really help much once you're there. Add to it that most of them are from Mastery classes, except for Defiant Strength, and you're left with bad skills that you won't have for very long. 
  • Warding Blow. Worst Blow skill from mastering the worst Master class. Nice. 
  • Rally Luck, Resistance, Movement, Charm, and Dexterity. They're not worth the slot if you have other skills available.
  • Dex +4: Pretty terrible. I don't think much needs to be said here. 
  • Pomp and Circumstance: Dex +4 but with Lck +4 as well. Similarly terrible. 
  • Res +2: Completely useless considering all of the better Intermediate mastery classes. 
  • All Seal skills excluding Seal Speed: The other stat reductions aren't important enough to justify a slot compared to other much better skills. 
  • Unarmed Combat: Bad. Durability isn't really an issue since you can freely buy Smithing Stones, and Gauntlets are low weight to begin with. 
  • Miracle: Also bad. A Lck percent chance to not die is probably not as good as not putting your units into a place where they would die. 
  • Alert Stance: Avoid +15 is not really that great. It's only really useful in baiting enemies out, but Alert Stance+ is better at that, and Wrath+Vantage accomplishes the same thing but kills the enemy instead. Dodgetanks are overrated. 

Edit: I'll nominate Alert Stance+ for NU too. Most of the cons of Alert Stance apply to Alert Stance+ as well. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by LegendOfLoog

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I'll just nominate the following since I haven't seen anyone bring up these skills yet.I'm just going to do NU for now because there are a lot of skills that deserve to be there. 

• NU 
  • All of the available Crit +10 Skills. While an S is reasonable with enough investment and specialization, the reward is not very useful. There a few niche builds that may use them, but it's pretty much just filler. Even Wrath + Vantage builds generally have enough crit without these skills, so these can be replaced fairly easily. 
  • All Defiant abilities excluding Defiant Avoid. 25% or less HP is dangerous territory, and all of the stat stick ones don't really help much once you're there. Add to it that most of them are from Mastery classes, except for Defiant Strength, and you're left with bad skills that you won't have for very long. 
  • Warding Blow. Worst Blow skill from mastering the worst Master class. Nice. 
  • Rally Luck, Resistance, Movement, Charm, and Dexterity. They're not worth the slot if you have other skills available.
  • Dex +4: Pretty terrible. I don't think much needs to be said here. 
  • Pomp and Circumstance: Dex +4 but with Lck +4 as well. Similarly terrible. 
  • Res +2: Completely useless considering all of the better Intermediate mastery classes. 
  • All Seal skills excluding Seal Speed: The other stat reductions aren't important enough to justify a slot compared to other much better skills. 
  • Unarmed Combat: Bad. Durability isn't really an issue since you can freely buy Smithing Stones, and Gauntlets are low weight to begin with. 
  • Miracle: Also bad. A Lck percent chance to not die is probably not as good as not putting your units into a place where they would die. 
  • Alert Stance: Avoid +15 is not really that great. It's only really useful in baiting enemies out, but Alert Stance+ is better at that, and Wrath+Vantage accomplishes the same thing but kills the enemy instead. Dodgetanks are overrated. 

 

I would honestly think Alert Stance+ is also NU. Sure, the effect is nothing to sneeze at, but odds are you won't have A+ in Flying for very long, if at all.

[dragontamer]

30 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Which has only 20 durability and needs rare materials to repair. Tempest Lance adds 8 might to your attack and is usable with common weapons. 

Hmm... yeah. Tempest lance chews through weapons, but training lances / iron lances are dirt cheap.

 

Maybe Paladin Byleth really is the way to go for endgame. I still argue that Holy Knight is a stronger option than FalcoKnight / Wyvern Lord, if only because of the battalion issue (you have other fliers, and they want the good battalions). There are so many good grounded battalions + adjutants, but fliers lose many good options for various builds.

Edited September 22, 2019 by dragontamer

[Silly]

Why are we going Paladin Byleth instead of Wyvern Lord/Falcon Knight/Bow Knight again?

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Also, you should have access to enough flying battalions in a regular run. Each route has at least 6 flying battalions that are accessible, and many routes have more than that. Plus, speaking of adjutants, if you have a flier that you want to set an adjutant backpack for, spend some time reclassing the adjutant into a flier as well. For example, Byleth gets +damage from a Flayn adjutant, so if you're planning on doing that to give Byleth a stat boost, then just reclass Flayn into a Pegasus Knight.

Seiros Pegasus Co. is buyable on every route. You get Cichol and Galatea flying battalions from paralogues, which are doable on every route (both are incredibly good as well, though have high authority ranks).

BE route has 4 additional buyable flying battalions.

BL route has 2 additional buyable flying battalions, plus Seteth joins with an additional copy of Seiros Pegasus Co.

GD route has 3 additional buyable flying battalions, plus Seteth and Claude both join with flying battalions.

Not 100% sure which of the BE battalions are locked out of the Church route, but at the very minimum you should still have an additional 3+ flying battalions on that route.

 

[Stroud]

Black eagle Pegasus Co. Is also a really good Battalion. It has Retribution as a Gambit. Which is really nice to have in Maddening for some Wrath, Vantage and Retribution shenanigans. 

 

[dragontamer]

33 minutes ago, Silly said:

Why are we going Paladin Byleth instead of Wyvern Lord/Falcon Knight/Bow Knight again?  

 

1. Supreme Armored Co: +8 Atk, +7 Magic, +7 Protect, +6 Res. Black Eagles only, but BL also has Gloucester Knights for mixed-units. C-authority

2. Gautier Knights: +8 Atk, +20 Avoid, +7 Protect, Stride. Blue Lions only. C-authority

3. Brigid Hunters: +5 Atk, +7 Crit, +20 Avoid. B-authority

4. Fraldarius Soldiers: +8 Atk, +20 Crit,  +7 Protect B-authority

5. "House Cavalry" (Black eagle cavalry): +8 Attack / +7 Protect.

6. King of Lions Corps: +10 str, +15 crit, +6 Defense. Blue Lions only, C-authority

 

Aside from "House Cavalry" (Black Eagle Cavalry), all of the above are B-rank or C-rank battalions. Sure, Cichol and Galatea kind-of / sort-of compete, but Seiros Pegasus Co is just blown away by the competition.

 

Quote

Seiros Pegasus Co. is buyable on every route.

Erm... +4 Attack and +6 avoid with Assembly gambit is not endgame worthy (although the +5 charm is relevant). I frankly discount Seiros Pegasus Co, and frankly all early battalions aside from Jeralt's Mercenaries (very good for those grounded units who have bad authority). Pretty much any other battalion  in the game is better, especially when you consider that C-authority battalions include crazy stats like King of Lion Corps.

 

EDIT: Empire Pegasus Co.  and Empire Wyvern Co are also 4-attack, but they do offer some +protect. I don't recall seeing any outstanding C or D-ranked flying battalions.

 

Cichol, Galatea, and "House Elite Wyvern Co" (Black Eagle Wyvern Co, Blue Lions Wyvern Co, Golden Deer Wyvern Co) are the endgame battalions worth using. The other flying battalions are extremely weak, not worth using.

 

Paladin Byleth can go forth with a C-authority battalion at like, level 20 with minimal investment. On the other hand, we're looking at A Authority (to use good battalions) + A+ Flying (Alert Stance+), LanceA (or AxeA for Wyvern Lord Byleth)... thats a lot of wexp investment. Even if it is possible to qualify for all of these things, it will only happen very late in the game.

 

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Lets take someone like... Hilda or Caspar. Both have -Authority (and probably is only getting to C-authority best). They can enter endgame as a +4 Attack Wyvern Lord (Seiros Pegasus Co), or she can enter endgame as a +8 Attack / +20 Crit / +7 Defense / +7 Charm Warmaster with Fraldarius Soldiers.

Edited September 22, 2019 by dragontamer

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

2 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

Lets take someone like... Hilda. Who has -Authority (and probably is only getting to C-authority best). She can enter endgame as a +4 Attack Wyvern Lord, or she can enter endgame as a +8 Attack / +20 Crit / +7 Defense Warmaster with Fraldarius Soldiers.

More like Warrior. Or some other infantry class she would not be weak in.

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

she can enter endgame as a +8 Attack / +20 Crit / +7 Defense / +7 Charm Warmaster with Fraldarius Soldiers.

Never mind the fact that War Master is male only...

[dragontamer]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Never mind the fact that War Master is male only... 

Lol, woops. That's a foot in mouth situation. EDIT: Also, Fradalus Soldiers is B-ranked, not C. So Hilda probably isn't getting there either. Immortal Corps is +9 Attack, +16 Avoid, +5 Protect, and +10 Charm at C-authority however. So Paladin Hilda (or whatever) is going to be way stronger than FalcoKnight / Wyvern Lord Hilda thanks to Immortal Corps.

 

EDIT: I looked through the list, and Alliance Wyvern Co. (C-rank Authority) is +5 Attack / +10 Crit / +3 Protect / +5 Charm. Far inferior to Immortal Corps. So flying Hilda is -4 Attack, -6 avoid (innate +10 avoid from fliers), -2 Protect and -5 charm compared to grounded Hilda. Alliance Wyvern Co. is probably the best C-rank flying battalion, but I'm welcome for ideas if you think there's something better out there.

 

In either case, Hilda is a fun theory craft as a flying unit. But when you get to battalion selection, good luck finding something good for her. Keeping her grounded gives her so many more options.

Edited September 22, 2019 by dragontamer

[LegendOfLoog]

32 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would honestly think Alert Stance+ is also NU. Sure, the effect is nothing to sneeze at, but odds are you won't have A+ in Flying for very long, if at all.

I don't really think an A+ is particularly difficult to get. Even with no grind on Maddening, A ranks are easy to get pre skip, so I imagine if you actually wanted Alert Stance, most units can have it a few chapters after the timeskip at worst. Of course, that's pretty bad on Edelgard's route since then you only have a couple chapters left, but on other routes, there's enough time left that I wouldn't knock Alert Stance+ down for its availability. I can see the argument for Alert Stance+ being NU though, mostly because of the condition for it.

In order to use it, that unit can't do anything on Player Phase, and since there are generally more and stronger enemies on Maddening, being a non-factor on Player Phase is pretty bad. To make up for that, the unit in question would at least have to be good on Enemy Phase, but since the enemies are statistically much stronger, the actual damage they'll deal is much less significant. So if your unit contributes on Player Phase, the skill essentially takes up a slot for no benefit. If they don't, then their contribution on Enemy Phase is still somewhat mediocre even with the Avoid. I think I'll probably edit in Alert Stance+ for NU, tbh. It just seems kind of meh. 

[dragontamer]

1 hour ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I don't really think an A+ is particularly difficult to get. Even with no grind on Maddening, A ranks are easy to get pre skip, so I imagine if you actually wanted Alert Stance, most units can have it a few chapters after the timeskip at worst. Of course, that's pretty bad on Edelgard's route since then you only have a couple chapters left, but on other routes, there's enough time left that I wouldn't knock Alert Stance+ down for its availability. I can see the argument for Alert Stance+ being NU though, mostly because of the condition for it.

In order to use it, that unit can't do anything on Player Phase, and since there are generally more and stronger enemies on Maddening, being a non-factor on Player Phase is pretty bad. To make up for that, the unit in question would at least have to be good on Enemy Phase, but since the enemies are statistically much stronger, the actual damage they'll deal is much less significant. So if your unit contributes on Player Phase, the skill essentially takes up a slot for no benefit. If they don't, then their contribution on Enemy Phase is still somewhat mediocre even with the Avoid. I think I'll probably edit in Alert Stance+ for NU, tbh. It just seems kind of meh.  

 

While stats do inflate in Maddening, the Hit-rates of enemies mostly stays the same. The +Dex inflation isn't as big of a deal as the +Str or +Speed inflation.

 

While Normal Mode and Hard Mode it was possible to defense-tank some hits, that becomes far less likely with 60-attack / 50 speed endgame enemies in Maddening. These enemies only have 120 to 130 hit however, which means dodge-tank builds will consistently put the enemy at 20ish to-hit (unless they get a "Breaker" skill on you, which gives them another +20 or +30 hit).

 

Stacking avoid is probably the only relevant "tank" strategy in Maddening. Not necessarily Alert Stance, but also "Breaker" skills of your own, +10 Avoid ring, and terrain (for grounded units).

Edited September 22, 2019 by dragontamer

[Johnzin]

40 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

 

While stats do inflate in Maddening, the Hit-rates of enemies mostly stays the same. The +Dex inflation isn't as big of a deal as the +Str or +Speed inflation.

 

While Normal Mode and Hard Mode it was possible to defense-tank some hits, that becomes far less likely with 60-attack / 50 speed endgame enemies in Maddening. These enemies only have 120 to 130 hit however, which means dodge-tank builds will consistently put the enemy at 20ish to-hit (unless they get a "Breaker" skill on you, which gives them another +20 or +30 hit).

 

Stacking avoid is probably the only relevant "tank" strategy in Maddening. Not necessarily Alert Stance, but also "Breaker" skills of your own, +10 Avoid ring, and terrain (for grounded units).

For the people saying 15 use magic, can't blyeth equip heal to still Dodge tank. This seems suboptimal option too since no damage, Nos spell isn't that great damage either, but if you are aiming for Dodge tank, heal can be used without running out if you're not healing people.

 

I think pulling it off is so much effort. C armor, B+ faith / A for aura. Staying in EO class with swords and B for flying for stance. That's going to be difficult for Mbyleth. 

 

Back to the thread original post topic, I think authority skills are not OU. Also, why are we using Pokemon tiering system? I find it confusing compared to the letter system. Most of the time I'm using gambits, it is not do higher damage, I want enemies to stay in place. Damage is not a high priority for gambits, I would be doing a combat art instead. +5 HP is so crucial early game, you get it on all your house units, even rally bots. Can be useful in mid game for your nonDeDue tanks Cost no investment for those characters and no rankings needed. I think it should be bottom of S.

[LegendOfLoog]

1 hour ago, dragontamer said:

While stats do inflate in Maddening, the Hit-rates of enemies mostly stays the same. The +Dex inflation isn't as big of a deal as the +Str or +Speed inflation.

 

While Normal Mode and Hard Mode it was possible to defense-tank some hits, that becomes far less likely with 60-attack / 50 speed endgame enemies in Maddening. These enemies only have 120 to 130 hit however, which means dodge-tank builds will consistently put the enemy at 20ish to-hit (unless they get a "Breaker" skill on you, which gives them another +20 or +30 hit).

 

Stacking avoid is probably the only relevant "tank" strategy in Maddening. Not necessarily Alert Stance, but also "Breaker" skills of your own, +10 Avoid ring, and terrain (for grounded units).

Being hit isn't really my main issue with dodge tank strategies. I just don't think it's worth focusing on. Having a high Avoid unit is nice, yes. But what does that unit do against the enemies while they're dodging? They're unlikely to be doubling against the high Speed units in the endgame, and depending on the enemy in question, they may even be doubled themselves. Assuming that your dodge tank keeps dodging, they still won't do any significant damage to the enemies they fight on Enemy Phase. The main purposes of a dodge tank that I can see are:

1. Lure enemies that hit hard so that you can defeat them on Player Phase with the rest of your units. This is ok, but Bow Knights can often trigger the same enemy to move without needing to risk being hit at all. Once one enemy in a group does so, the rest of the group generally moves as well, so Bow Knights fulfill this function along with other, more important ones like attacking without counter on Player Phase. The other large issue here is that if the enemy has a Gambit, all the Avoid in the world won't help. At that point, your unit needs a high Charm stat as well, so it requires even more investment to have a strong dodge tank.
2. Deal chip damage against each enemy. Since your dodge tank should be able to dodge successfully, they'll also chip away at each enemies health. This can be useful in lowering health bars, but again, any Wrath + Vantage user can outright KO the enemies instead, eliminating the need for dodge tanking. The addition of Battalion versions of these skills also mean that some units who would only want to go into either Mercenary or Warrior but not both still have the capability to get the combination if they have the other skill instead. 
3. Take out ballista-type weapons. Retribution doesn't work against these and they don't move, so dodge tanks are the safest bet for reaching these without getting hit on the way. The problem here is that it has a very niche usage, and once the unit has to engage the enemy on it, you can't use Alert Stance+ to dodge the attacks. Not really worth fielding a dodge tank in my eyes since most of them deal low damage anyway, but it is at least some sort of usage for them. 

Also, getting 100 Avoid without Alert Stance+ or a Breaker skill + Evasion Ring isn't possible at Maddening endgame without statboosters. I recently finished my BL Maddening run, and the average Level for all of my units was around 37. Ingrid is one of the fastest characters in the game, and her Speed at that level as a Falcon Knight is around 40. Avoid = AS + skills, so let's just say she has 40 AS here. Lance Prowess gives 15 Avoid, her class gives +10 Avoid, and Galatea Pegasus Co gives +10 Avoid. This is 75 Avoid assuming she is not weighed down at all. Add +2 if you have Speed +2 equipped, I guess. Give +10 for Evasion ring, and that ends up at around 87 Avoid with that item. That's not bad, sure. However, enemies range from around 120-130 hit as you said. A displayed Hit rate in the 30-40s range for most enemies isn't good enough for a dodge tank. Now, if you have Defiant Avoid mastered and manage to get it active without losing your unit, then that's a pretty solid Avoid. But in general, Master classes aren't mastered until near the end of the game, so the actual usage of this is very limited. 

That means you are going to have to rely on Alert Stance for a significant portion of the game. Breakers go up and down in terms of usefulness based on map, and using Alert Stance gives your unit no Player Phase contribution besides moving.  Terrain is similar to Breakers. Sure, Claude's last chapter has quite a bit, but Dimitri's has almost none at all, so it's not something consistent. And since tanking isn't really a required strategy in the endgame as there are many other ways to achieve the same or better results, I just don't see the use of dodge-tanks in general. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by LegendOfLoog

[Silly]

4 hours ago, dragontamer said:

Lol, woops. That's a foot in mouth situation. EDIT: Also, Fradalus Soldiers is B-ranked, not C. So Hilda probably isn't getting there either. Immortal Corps is +9 Attack, +16 Avoid, +5 Protect, and +10 Charm at C-authority however. So Paladin Hilda (or whatever) is going to be way stronger than FalcoKnight / Wyvern Lord Hilda thanks to Immortal Corps.

 

EDIT: I looked through the list, and Alliance Wyvern Co. (C-rank Authority) is +5 Attack / +10 Crit / +3 Protect / +5 Charm. Far inferior to Immortal Corps. So flying Hilda is -4 Attack, -6 avoid (innate +10 avoid from fliers), -2 Protect and -5 charm compared to grounded Hilda. Alliance Wyvern Co. is probably the best C-rank flying battalion, but I'm welcome for ideas if you think there's something better out there.

 

In either case, Hilda is a fun theory craft as a flying unit. But when you get to battalion selection, good luck finding something good for her. Keeping her grounded gives her so many more options.

Immortal Corps is a flying battalion...

[timon]

7 hours ago, dragontamer said:

 

Just to be clear on what you are proposing. It takes 960 Wexp for Byleth to get B+ Faith, and he gets either +6 wexp per heal / Nosferatsu (1 + 3 Enlightened one x1.5), or +9 if you got the statue (x2 with knowledge gem, but everyone wants the knowledge gem so lets ignore it for the purposes of this post). If you do this through drills, its 32 activity points into +Faith.
 

And you consider this to be "more" opportunity cost than going for 1280 Wexp for Bow-proficiency, when Byleth doesn't even have skill bonuses in Bows. You're saying "12 activity points" is a lot for unlocking White Magic Avoid +20, but its 64 activity points to reach proper Bow-proficiency to get into Bow Knight. BTW: You need those 64 activity points to qualify for A-riding as well. Its not exactly easy to qualify for endgame riding classes. Your bow-knight route is going to take a lot more activity points than my proposal.

 

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EDIT: Holy Knight Byleth requires 64 Activity Points (Riding A), 32-Faith activity points, and 15 Activity points (C Lances). A grand total of 111 activity points of advanced drills to fully qualify for Holy Knight.

 

Bow Knight Byleth requires 64 Activity Points (Riding), 64 Activity Points (Bow), 15 Activity Points (lances). 143 activity points. Ditto for Wyvern Lord Byleth.

 

Paladin Byleth requires 48 (Riding) + 48 (Lances), 96 activity points. Which seems like the best option.

 

FalcoKnight Byleth needs 48 Flying + 64 Lances, but probably automatically qualifies for C Swords.

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Restore is actually good on Byleth, because he doesn't have the magic to heal you all the way back up with Physic or Heal. Restore + Canto + 7 movement mitigates the weakness severely by endgame.

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I forgot Paladin was B Lance / B Riding. That suggests that Paladin is actually a good endgame class for Byleth. No need to promote to master rank honestly if you want to be locked to physical only. That's 48 activity points into Riding, 48 activity points into Lance, which is doable for sure. Honestly, sticking with Paladin through endgame is the best option if you don't plan to use magic. Honestly, I don't see what the Lance gets me... Byleth has access to Ruptured Heaven / Sublime Heaven for +7/+10 might and 1-2 range... and that's locked to a particular Sword. So Byleth should be using Swords IMO in any case where the +damage matters.

 

Byleth only wants Lance to qualify for his endgame horse (or flier) class.

Opportunity cost is tied to value.

1 point spent for useless faith costs more than 64 spent on the most broken weapon type in the game, talking about bows btw. (+ lances, which are a lot better than swords, SoC doesn't matter considering how hard it is to repair)

As I said, healing with Byleth is always a mistake, and his spell list is literally useless, so instead of throwing away your time with dumb white magic you can invest in axe/flying or lance/bow/riding.

The only argument here is what you choose between WL or BK (FK is alao there for F). WL is the better endgame class, but going cav>pally>bk has a stronger early/midgame.

That's the choice, every other option is subpar. It's sad really, but it's what happens with a shit class system.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

How does the poll work? We just vote on what abilities we agree should be on that tier? 

Anyway, have to hard agree on Alert Stance being far away from top tier. You don't get its weaker version until Flying B which is barely worth an ability slot for units that get by on decent bulk. And Flying A+ is pushing it almost as much as master class mastery skills. Usually players stop tutoring Flying once they save scum their way into Wyvern Lord. Axefaire is more important to focus on at that point, imo.

[Jayvee94]

1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

How does the poll work? We just vote on what abilities we agree should be on that tier? 

Anyway, have to hard agree on Alert Stance being far away from top tier. You don't get its weaker version until Flying B which is barely worth an ability slot for units that get by on decent bulk. And Flying A+ is pushing it almost as much as master class mastery skills. Usually players stop tutoring Flying once they save scum their way into Wyvern Lord. Axefaire is more important to focus on at that point, imo.

You're correct, this poll is a Yes/No kind.

[dragontamer]

13 hours ago, Silly said:

Immortal Corps is a flying battalion...

I stand corrected. I forgot that. They need a little icon on the list to help me remember these things when I'm going through the list. Right, that was Claude's Battalion.

 

Still, that gives you Immortal Corps, Galatea Pegasus Co, Cichol, and  Golden Deer Wyvern Co. as good endgame battalions. So we're up to four endgame flying battalions in Claude's route, only one of which is C-authority. In either case, Serios Flying Co is hardly optimal and Alliance Pegasus Co. / Alliance Wyvern Co are also quite weak.

 

I'll give you four endgame-worthy flying battalions on Claude's route. Maybe five if I missed another one. Certainly not enough to make all your units flyers.

11 hours ago, timon said:

1 point spent for useless faith costs more than 64 spent on the most broken weapon type in the game, talking about bows btw. (+ lances, which are a lot better than swords, SoC doesn't matter considering how hard it is to repair) 

 

Recover from Byleth has more HP (30 base) than Gremory Dorthea's Physic (8 base), or even Bishop Lindheart (8 base + 10 class bonus) Physic. And Recover gets much, much better when you have Canto and 7 movement.

 

Recover makes a big difference over Heal and Physic. Its why a Bishop is still a relevant strategy (+10 heal and x2 white magic) is relevant for endgame, despite their pathetic 4 movement (so Bishop Lindheart probably will never contribute in combat: he's too slow to keep up with everyone).

 

Here are your two options.

1. Have endgame powerhouse mages (aka: Dorthea or Lysithea) heal you with Physic. This only heals maybe ~25 HP in my experience, I dunno the healing formula, but Physic has waaaayyyy less healing than Recover.

2. Realize that Byleth is perfectly acceptable Recovery user, albeit locked to 1 range. Heal ~38 HP in one turn, which is way more turn efficient, and remember that White Magic Avoid (+20) + Faith 5 (+20) + Jeralt's Mercinaries (+15) + Evasion Ring (+10) + 30 Speed == 95 Avoid, so Byleth can do this from the front lines and actually avoid-tank some hits on Enemy phase.

 

15 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Also, getting 100 Avoid without Alert Stance+ or a Breaker skill + Evasion Ring isn't possible at Maddening endgame without statboosters.

 

White Magic Avoid +20 (Byleth primarily) and Sword Avoid +20 (Dancer Ferdinand)

Edited September 23, 2019 by dragontamer