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Jayvee94

Equippable Abilities Tier List

Equippable Abilities Tier List  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Uber

    • Death Blow (Class mastered: Brigand)
      17
    • Fiendish Blow (Class: Dark Bishop, Class mastered: Mage)
      14
    • Alert Stance (Raise Flying skill level to B)
      4
    • Close Counter (Raise Bow skill level to C)
      12
    • Darting Blow (Class mastered: Pegasus Knight)
      11
  2. 2. OverUsed

    • Prowess Skill levels (Prowess Skill Level Up)
      17
    • Authority levels (Authority skill level up)
      9
    • Rally Speed (Raise Authority skill level for Hubert (S), Annette (C+) or Ignatz (D))
      9
    • Magic +2 (Class mastered: Monk)
      5
    • Weight -3 (Raise Heavy Armour skill level to C)
      10
    • Alert Stance (Raise Flying skill level to B)
      7
    • HP +5 (Class mastered: Noble or Commoner)
      6
    • Speed +2 (Class mastered: Myrmidon)
      9
    • Defense +2 (Class mastered: Soldier)
      3
    • Strength +2 (Class mastered: Fighter)
      4
  3. 3. UnderUsed

    • Strength +2 (Class mastered: Fighter)
      6
    • Defense +2 (Class mastered: Soldier)
      2
    • Rally Charm (Raise Authority skill level for Edelgard (S), Dorothea (D), Dimitri (S), Claude (S) or Manuela (D))
      7
    • Battalion Wrath (Raise Authority skill level to C for Hubert, Bernadetta, Caspar, Petra, Dimitri, Dedue, Hilda, Raphael, Seteth, Alois or Gibert. Raise to A for Annette or Claude.)
      9
    • Swordbreaker (Raise Lance skill level to B)
      10
    • HP +5 (Class mastered: Noble or Commoner)
      5
    • Magic +2 (Class mastered: Monk)
      3
    • Speed +2 (Class mastered: Myrmidon)
      1
    • Authority levels (Authority skill level up)
      3
    • Rally Strength (Raise Authority skill level for Raphael (C), Ignatz (S) or Alois (D))
      7
    • Rally Magic (Raise Authority skill level to D for Hubert or Ingrid)
      5
    • Battalion Vantage (Raise Authority skill level to C for protagonist, Edelgard, Felix, Sylvain, Lorenz or Catherine. Raise to A for Dimitri or Ignatz.)
      7
    • Alert Stance + (Raise Flying skill level to A+)
      6
  4. 4. RarelyUsed

    • HP +5 (Class mastered: Noble or Commoner)
      3
    • Speed +2 (Class mastered: Myrmidon)
      6
    • Rally Strength (Raise Authority skill level for Raphael (C), Ignatz (S) or Alois (D))
      2
    • Rally Defense (Raise Authority skill level to D for Seteth or Gilbert)
      5
    • Rally Magic (Raise Authority skill level to D for Hubert or Ingrid)
      4
    • Special Dance (Class mastered: Dancer)
      8
    • Lancebreaker (Raise Axe skill level to B)
      3
    • Pass (Budding talent: Bernadetta)
      6
    • Black Magic Avo +20 (Budding talent: Sylvain)
      9
    • White Magic Avo +20 (Budding talent: Dorothea)
      7
    • Authority levels (Authority skill level up)
      3
    • Alert Stance + (Raise Flying skill level to A+)
      3
    • Movement +1 (Raise Riding skill level to A+)
      8
  5. 5. NeverUsed

    • Alert Stance + (Raise Flying skill level to A+)
      4
    • Wrath (Class mastered: Warrior)
      7
    • Quick Reposte (Class mastered: War Master)
      4
    • Faire Abilities (Respective Skill Level S+, or Various Classes)
      5
    • Range +1(Respective Skill Level S)
      6
    • Axebreaker (Raise Sword skill level to B)
      5
    • Bowbreaker (Raise Reason skill level to B)
      6
    • Tomebreaker (Raise Brawling skill level to B)
      7
    • Rally Defense (Raise Authority skill level to D for Seteth or Gilbert)
      7
    • Pass (Budding talent: Bernadetta)
      4
    • White Magic Avo +20 (Budding talent: Dorothea)
      9


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Before we start a poll, let me explain the mechanics:

  • There will be 5 tiers: Uber, OU, UU, RU, NU
  • Nominate an ability by commenting a list. For example:
    • I nominate the following:
      • <tier 1>
        • <ablility 1>
        • <ablility 2>
        • etc
      • <tier 2>
        • <ablility 1>
        • <ablility 2>
        • etc
  • In selecting an ability for a tier, please not only consider its usefulness but also its difficulty.
Edited by Jayvee94

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I guess I'll start with Death Blow in OU tier? It's incredibly useful but requires time as a Brigand which may not suit certain units.

Edit: I NOMINATE Death Blow for OU Tier.

Edited by DefyingFates

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that skill that grants you evasion +30 if you move but don't do anything else

that's just crazy, way more broken than canto imo

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Just now, Yexin said:

that skill that grants you evasion +30 if you move but don't do anything else

that's just crazy, way more broken than canto imo

I disagree - it's most likely gonna come too late to make much use of outside of NG+.

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I consider Beginner and Intermediate Class mastery skills to take about 6-7 level ups to earn. I consider practical weapon skills to be A+. I consider practical non-weapon skills to be B+.

I do like things Alertstance+, Quick Riposte, but even in a playthrough where I make 6 Wyverns or 4 war masters, Like only 1 of them actually learns the skill. These go to NU 

  • Uber
    • Deathblow        - you are dying to level up strength as much as possible from lvl 10-q9 anyway so learning time doesn't cost  you much.
    • Fiendish Blow  - 
    • Alert Stance    - The C rank version is what you will be working with, and it's good enough.
  • OU
    • Sword/Lance/Reason etc                 - you learn these anyway, and having hit and avoid is a no brainer
    • Authority                                               - you probably want these in the C range even unequiipeed for the Battalion stat stick, but in the interim period before learning other abilities the + MT to gambits is nice, especially since you want to use them a lot more than normal on maddening.
    • Rally Speed - Comes at lowish ranks for 2/3  of people who learn it (Crimson Flower can forget about it) 
    • Magic +2 -   - The movement combat art is more important for 4 move till lv 30 and you tend not to miss being 1-2 levels behind for your lvl 10 class
    • Weight-3      - More learnable than "spend 5 levels in a beginner reclass" thanks to study and point-free group activity.
  • UU
  • Strength + 2 In my experience it kind of takes ~7 levels as fighter rather than the ideal 5 levels for the immediate level 10 intermediate class, but it does come pre-packed with a movement combat art (shove) that you can use forever. I also qualify everyone for fighter since I make everyone in maddening get D bows for curved shot anyway.
  • Defense + 2 Like the above except it comes packed with Reposition as the combat art - might not ever be replaced.
  • Rally Charm - Gives one charather per turn 100% accuracy with Gambits on everything except the House leaders in Gronder levels. Only for Manualla and Dorothea. 
  • Battalion Wrath - learned by a decent amount of people, kind of usuable (don't need to start map without replenishing in my experience) 
  • RU
    • HP+5 charathers have a high chance of learning it in the process of getting to level 5 anyway, and sometimes it gives them enough bulk to cross a survivability threshold
    • Speed+2 - Just isn't as practical in maddening, but if you try for not getting doubled thresholds instead of doubling thresholds its okay outside of othe ~5 levels of investment
    • Rally Strength - I wouldn't go out of my way to recruit Raphael, but it is kind of nice if playing Golden Deer anyway.
    • Rally Defense - I do actually think Seteth / Gilbert as practical charathers in Maddening - Gilbert only needs two months of study to Wyvern Rider Baseline>< Its effects are also easy to reach 1 turn tanking benchmarks with.
    • Rally Magic     - Lower Authority requirements, one on a char (Ingrid ) who you might recruit out of a house for the weapon.
    • Special Dance - only one charather, but they won't turn it off
  •  NU
    • everything else
    • I don't consider mastering lvl 20 or lvl 30 class skills except by accident
    •  Alertstance+ Mov+1 MIGHT be reached, but even times when I make 6 Fliers, usually it's by 1 of them and not 3+ of them.
    •  Wrath (from Warrior) and Quick Riposte (from Warmaster) can sometimes come online for ~2-3 maps at end of a route
    • Things like the Faire Skills and Range+1 skills are great as reclass passives, but unpracticall as equipped skills since you won't learn them.image.thumb.png.20b29c09ce9ee664553672b067b31b04.png

 

Edited by eclipse

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@Reality Done, I think?  Lemme know if I need to do anything else.

As for the tier list, if Lethality procs on every hit, it's rather amusing when there's gauntlets in play.  Not sure how this would all play out with Bernie's crest, but it does allow for shenanigans.  Probably RU, since getting to Asssassin's kind of a chore (but the class IMO is great).

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+2 speed top tier. Early game AS is a pain. 2 AS is huge value: more bulk, more damage, and allows heavier weapons (training -> iron sooner). Going myrm also gives +1 speed, which pushes AS immediately, and increases speed growth (only 5, but it's there). Arguably, +1 spd class change is more valuable due to a free 1 AS at lvl 5, but +2 speed keeps the AS train rolling.

E.G. Dimitri has decent spd base/growth, but will be doubled. Put AS on him for more bulk and damage -> he fights more often getting him more exp -> he gets even more due to his personal -> Dimitri snowballs.

TL;DR: +2 speed is better than other +2s because AS and myrm best beginner class. Over valuing late game is a trap.

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  • UU
    • Sword Breaker - Its more useful compared to some other Breaker skills, also I think that Lance are the best choice for such builds. And having a better hitrate against Assassins can't be wrong.
  • RU
    • Lance Breaker - less useful than Sword Breaker, but still has its niche as Axes can have a wacky hit rate, especially against Pegasus which have high Avoid
    • Pass - Only Bernadetta can learn it. I actually found it useful on her as a Paladin if its not about routing enemies but Jumping to the Boss and get him sweeped with Veangence, I still have no experience reports from others who tried Bernadetta with Lance so I don't know where exactly to position it. 
    • Avo Black +20, I actually would find this skill more useful if Sylvain would have more spells and a better statgrowth for Mage classes. Also compared to White Avo +20 the problem is that Reason Lv 5 only has +10 Avoid. While Faith  Lv 5 has 20.
    •  Avo White, again worth some thoughts but I don't think it has the right characters for it. 
  • NU
    • Axe breaker - Sword should have no problems against Axes so I feel its kind of wasted
    • Bowbreaker - Outside of Sylvain I don't think anyone can use this and he kind of lacks as a mage a little, which is a shame. Overall Mages just have it more difficult.
    • Tome Breaker - I don't think Brawlers are not cut out for such builds


 

 

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I would honestly say White Magic Ago +20 is PU tier - only Byleth and Dorothea get it, which is awful enough, but we also have offensive white magic in general being rare and not particularly good.

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Is this in NG or NG+? Because that makes a massive difference. Quick riposte and magic range +1 are probably Uber tier skills but take eternity to get on NG, same with alert stance+.

Or what difficulty are we rating? HP+5 is great for maddening early game but unnecessary on hard.

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1 hour ago, Boomhauer007 said:

Is this in NG or NG+? Because that makes a massive difference. Quick riposte and magic range +1 are probably Uber tier skills but take eternity to get on NG, same with alert stance+.

Or what difficulty are we rating? HP+5 is great for maddening early game but unnecessary on hard.

It's preferable to refer to the highest difficulty possible, only taking special consideration on easier ones. So, Maddening NG by default.

 

Edit: Poll has officially started. To add more abilities above, comment you're own tier list.

Edited by Jayvee94

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I complete forgot Close Counter.  Probbably an Uber skill in itself even if it's "just" for archers. I think you can make the case that in Maddening you might want to keep it unequpped if you learn it really early because a charather that doesn't counter can turtle more safely (probably stuff like the Miklan map), but I feel by chapter 9 on that it is as worthy as it is on Hard mode.

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  • Darting Blow should be in tier 1. I can't even find it in the list, and it's a big omission.
  • Alert Stance should move down to tier 2. It's a fairly good ability but it both comes later and isn't as game changing as the other abilities in tier 1.
  • All the beginner class abilities should be in the same tier. Tier 2 is probably fine because of how empty that tier currently is, though I wouldn't be opposed to them all being in tier 3 either. HP +5 should also be here due to how early it comes and how impactful it is in the first third of the game. These are all very solid abilities that you shouldn't go out of your way significantly to learn, but if you learn them they end up being very helpful. Also Speed +2 is much better than people think. Imagine that it is two-thirds of Weight -3, except you don't need to go out of your way to get C armor. 
  • Authority should move down to tier 3 or 4. If this skill added hit to your gambits, it would be much, much better, since it would increase the reliability of your gambits substantially. Adding damage is much, much worse, and I often find myself replacing this ability for more important things.
  • Rally Strength should move up to tier 3. It's fairly important for reaching ORKOs in the early game, and is accessible by both Raphael and Annette early on. Even later, +4 strength is not negligible.
  • Rally Magic should also move up to tier 3. It's easy to learn and nice filler if you need some more damage on your mage or need to extend your range on warp (or fortify/rescue).
  • Battalion Vantage should be added to the same tier as Battalion Wrath (currently tier 3). They're both fairly decent abilities that are replacable by better abilities. Vantage is actually probably better than Wrath.
  • Alert Stance+ should probably move to tier 3 or 4. It's actually a pretty big upgrade over Alert Stance, since 3H uses 2RN for its hit rate. Making the enemy lose 15 displayed hit actually reduces their hit rate even more substantially. It comes fairly late in the game, but given that the best class in the game requires A flying anyways, getting to A+ is fairly low opportunity cost, and should be doable by all of your fliers.
  • Movement +1 should be placed where Alert Stance+ is. Again, it's a powerful ability that comes late but is fairly low opportunity cost for anyone that is planning on going into a riding class anyways.
  • Rally Defense can move to tier 5. It's pretty useless most of the time, especially since the earliest it comes is chapter 12.
  • Pass and White Magic Avoid can move down to tier 5 as well. Pass is honestly not that useful in this game on a frail unit. White Magic Avoid would be a lot better if offensive white magic didn't suck terribly.
Edited by Silly

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4 hours ago, Silly said:

Pass and White Magic Avoid can move down to tier 5 as well. Pass is honestly not that useful in this game on a frail unit. White Magic Avoid would be a lot better if offensive white magic didn't suck terribly.

Using Pass to just rush in on enemy hordes is not the recommended way for pass.
Pass should be used to get into a better position for some Gambits and it can be used to rush in on Bosses on certain maps. While I agree that its are rare case Skill I find RU justified on Paladin Berni. I use it on her on Maddening and its not as bad as you say. Even if I have been blesses with the right growth.. It definitely has more use to something like White Avo +20.

Spoiler

Yu4Sokh.jpg

Spoiler

xgUiTiG.jpg

With White Magic I agree, it can be moved down.

Edited by Stroud

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21 hours ago, eclipse said:

Not sure how this would all play out with Bernie's crest, but it does allow for shenanigans.

Her crest cannot proc off of brave effects, from what I've tried.

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Dorthea should never be using white magic avoid +20.

 

But IMO, it has uses on Byleth. Byleth gets Nosferatsu at D+ rank and White Magic Avoid +20 is just a few visits to Rhea. Its super-easy to get and very low effort for Byleth. Byleth actually gets enough strength to wield Nosferatsu without the AS loss as well: 25 STR and Weight-3.
 

Note that Faith 5 grants +20 avoid (a trait only shared by Sword Proficiency 5). White Magic and Swords are the best weapons for +Avoid tanking. Byleth is the only good potential user of white-magic Avoid stacking. (Dorthea probably won't get 25 STR).

 

Byleth: White Magic Avoid +20, Faith Proficiency, Sword Proficiency, Weight -3 +1 spare skill (maybe +1 Mov or maybe Axebreaker). Mixed-hitting: White Magic for Avoid, Swords for player-phase killing. Commoner -> Soldier -> Cavalier -> Enlightened One -> Holy Knight (very very late, but Canto + 7 movement beats Swordfaire and 5 movement IMO).

 

Note that Cavalier has +Swords skill ranks. Get Lance to C to qualify for Holy Knight, otherwise pump Byleth's Sword ranks.

 

Faith 3 (C+) has +13 Avoid, beating out all axe dodge users. Faith 4 (B+) has +16 avoid, beating all lance users in +Avoid stacking. Faith 5 (A+) is a stretch, but +20 Avoid is the ultimate benefit. There are some endgame foes with Tomebreaker, so Byleth can't dodge everyone. But so long as you keep an eye out for grapplers, Enlightened One Byleth actually has some great avoid numbers... only beaten by maybe Dancer Ferdinand at full health (lol +20 Sword avoid + 15 avoid personal when at full HP). Alert stance is great, but having a player-phase to cast Heal or Restore (or heck: use an Elixir, Torch, Chest Key, etc. etc) is actually pretty useful in my experience. Byleth has the supreme pocket: Convoy -> Pull out any item technique, but the technique doesn't work with Alert stance.

 

Equip White-magic before using Gambits, and send Byleth in deep. +20 Avoid + 16 (Faith 4) + 30 speed + Terrain (Forests give 10%) + Jeralt's Mercenaries (+15 avoid) + Evasion Ring (10 Avoid) == 101 Avoid. No, it doesn't do much damage, but that's a LOT of avoid. You can quite safely dodge-tank enemies with 120 Hit (8% hit chance), maybe 130 hit (18%).

 

If you're willing to take the -2 Magic hit, Brigid Hunters has 22 Avoid. Byleth could feasibly learn Alert Stance too if you're willing to stay in Enlightened One through endgame. (Instead of getting A-riding throughout the game to qualify for Holy Knight, go for B-flying for Alert Stance and just finish the game in Enlightened One class).

Edited by dragontamer

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36 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

Dorthea should never be using white magic avoid +20.

 

But IMO, it has uses on Byleth. Byleth gets Nosferatsu at D+ rank and White Magic Avoid +20 is just a few visits to Rhea. Its super-easy to get and very low effort for Byleth. Byleth actually gets enough strength to wield Nosferatsu without the AS loss as well: 25 STR and Weight-3.
 

Note that Faith 5 grants +20 avoid (a trait only shared by Sword Proficiency 5). White Magic and Swords are the best weapons for +Avoid tanking. Byleth is the only good potential user of white-magic Avoid stacking. (Dorthea probably won't get 25 STR).

 

Byleth: White Magic Avoid +20, Faith Proficiency, Sword Proficiency, Weight -3 +1 spare skill (maybe +1 Mov or maybe Axebreaker). Mixed-hitting: White Magic for Avoid, Swords for player-phase killing. Commoner -> Soldier -> Cavalier -> Enlightened One -> Holy Knight (very very late, but Canto + 7 movement beats Swordfaire and 5 movement IMO).

 

Note that Cavalier has +Swords skill ranks. Get Lance to C to qualify for Holy Knight, otherwise pump Byleth's Sword ranks.

 

Faith 3 (C+) has +13 Avoid, beating out all axe dodge users. Faith 4 (B+) has +16 avoid, beating all lance users in +Avoid stacking. Faith 5 (A+) is a stretch, but +20 Avoid is the ultimate benefit. There are some endgame foes with Tomebreaker, so Byleth can't dodge everyone. But so long as you keep an eye out for grapplers, Enlightened One Byleth actually has some great avoid numbers... only beaten by maybe Dancer Ferdinand at full health (lol +20 Sword avoid + 15 avoid personal when at full HP). Alert stance is great, but having a player-phase to cast Heal or Restore (or heck: use an Elixir, Torch, Chest Key, etc. etc) is actually pretty useful in my experience. Byleth has the supreme pocket: Convoy -> Pull out any item technique, but the technique doesn't work with Alert stance.

 

Equip White-magic before using Gambits, and send Byleth in deep. +20 Avoid + 16 (Faith 4) + 30 speed + Terrain (Forests give 10%) + Jeralt's Mercenaries (+15 avoid) + Evasion Ring (10 Avoid) == 101 Avoid. No, it doesn't do much damage, but that's a LOT of avoid. You can quite safely dodge-tank enemies with 120 Hit (8% hit chance), maybe 130 hit (18%).

 

If you're willing to take the -2 Magic hit, Brigid Hunters has 22 Avoid. Byleth could feasibly learn Alert Stance too if you're willing to stay in Enlightened One through endgame. (Instead of getting A-riding throughout the game to qualify for Holy Knight, go for B-flying for Alert Stance and just finish the game in Enlightened One class).

:facepalm:
Are you going to continue to ignore that offensive white magic sucks? In any instance, I believe it's every bit as useless for Byleth as it is for Dorothea.

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

:facepalm:
Are you going to continue to ignore that offensive white magic sucks? In any instance, I believe it's every bit as useless for Byleth as it is for Dorothea. 

 

So use Byleth's sword when you want to kill things. As I've said in other topics: the point of Avoid-Tank Byleth is to pull enemies out of position, especially in Maddening (where 70 HP / 60-attack / 50 AS / enemies are common in endgame, but they only have 130 Hit).

 

Since you have a player-phase (since you aren't working with Alert Stance), that gives you the option to pull off a Gambit, or raid your supply closet for an Elixir or something. Just equip Nosferatsu before your turn ends, and you can be confident that Byleth will survive.

 

EDIT: Another note: Jeralt's Mercinaries, D+ Faith, and budding-talent unlocked is all you care about to get the strategy to work. I'm calculating like ~80 avoid pre-timeskip (right when you get Enlightened one-status), so Byleth can dodge-tank extremely early in the game. This is a strategy that actually comes into play relatively early, before other characters even reach master-classes.

 

I think you're underestimating the time commitment of Byleth white-magic avoid strategy. Heck, you can probably pull it off by chapter 6 or so by qualifying for Monk class. (depending on how often you visit Rhea for +Faith training)

Edited by dragontamer

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48 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

 

So use Byleth's sword when you want to kill things. As I've said in other topics: the point of Avoid-Tank Byleth is to pull enemies out of position, especially in Maddening (where 70 HP / 60-attack / 50 AS / enemies are common in endgame, but they only have 130 Hit).

 

Since you have a player-phase (since you aren't working with Alert Stance), that gives you the option to pull off a Gambit, or raid your supply closet for an Elixir or something. Just equip Nosferatsu before your turn ends, and you can be confident that Byleth will survive.

 

EDIT: Another note: Jeralt's Mercinaries, D+ Faith, and budding-talent unlocked is all you care about to get the strategy to work. I'm calculating like ~80 avoid pre-timeskip (right when you get Enlightened one-status), so Byleth can dodge-tank extremely early in the game. This is a strategy that actually comes into play relatively early, before other characters even reach master-classes.

 

I think you're underestimating the time commitment of Byleth white-magic avoid strategy. Heck, you can probably pull it off by chapter 6 or so by qualifying for Monk class. (depending on how often you visit Rhea for +Faith training)

There are important things you're not considering though (apart from the Nosferatu weakness).

1. you have to be in a magic class. Enlightened one is not that good and is footlocked, DarkKnight is not Byleth's cup of cake (no matching proficiency), HK is just useless. Gremory is not a thing you should consider.

2. 12 uses. You have twelve uses. If you're trying to lure in enemies it means you're playing quite slow, if you're playing quite slow 12 uses are not enough.

3. opportunity cost, you're using up a skill slot for a thing that'll matter 12 times in a battle at most (15 with aura). Absurd. You also need to do Faith faculty training, which is basically useless considering Byleth has a garbage white spell list and you never want to heal with your powerhouse anyways.
Sure, you can pull it off quite easily, or you can instead spend your points pulling off axes for deathblow or riding for cavalier or flying for pegasus or hell, even just straight up boring swords.

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As much as I am all in for Dodgetank builds I have to agree that White Avo +20 won't make too happy, in Maddening it got even a little worse.

There are additional reasons which come to my mind.

The possibility to set up Defiant Avo in late game, which does not sync well with Nosferatu. Also Brawlers come with Tome Breaker, so against Tome users they have at around 140 hit in later game. I think there are also enemies with Tome Breaker+ around, they have 150 hit against Tome users. 

And think there is no Battalion which gives Avoid and Magic Boost. Which would be quite nice to have. Other dodgetanks can get at least both. 

Overall the cool thing about Dodgetanks is that they can work separately, so they need to have enough Durability with them to stay in trouble for more turns.

Edited by Stroud

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2 hours ago, dragontamer said:

 

So use Byleth's sword when you want to kill things. As I've said in other topics: the point of Avoid-Tank Byleth is to pull enemies out of position, especially in Maddening (where 70 HP / 60-attack / 50 AS / enemies are common in endgame, but they only have 130 Hit).

 

Since you have a player-phase (since you aren't working with Alert Stance), that gives you the option to pull off a Gambit, or raid your supply closet for an Elixir or something. Just equip Nosferatsu before your turn ends, and you can be confident that Byleth will survive.

 

EDIT: Another note: Jeralt's Mercinaries, D+ Faith, and budding-talent unlocked is all you care about to get the strategy to work. I'm calculating like ~80 avoid pre-timeskip (right when you get Enlightened one-status), so Byleth can dodge-tank extremely early in the game. This is a strategy that actually comes into play relatively early, before other characters even reach master-classes.

 

I think you're underestimating the time commitment of Byleth white-magic avoid strategy. Heck, you can probably pull it off by chapter 6 or so by qualifying for Monk class. (depending on how often you visit Rhea for +Faith training)

If I want to pull enemies out of position, I would ideally want to actually damage them at the same time so as to make killing them on player phase easier - which this fails miserably at doing. Aside from that, there's the matter of opportunity cost. That ability slot White Magic Avoid +20 is taking up could go to something that's much more useful. What are YOU willing to give up for that???

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2 hours ago, timon said:

 There are important things you're not considering though (apart from the Nosferatu weakness).

1. you have to be in a magic class. Enlightened one is not that good and is footlocked, DarkKnight is not Byleth's cup of cake (no matching proficiency), HK is just useless. Gremory is not a thing you should consider.

2. 12 uses. You have twelve uses. If you're trying to lure in enemies it means you're playing quite slow, if you're playing quite slow 12 uses are not enough.

3. opportunity cost, you're using up a skill slot for a thing that'll matter 12 times in a battle at most (15 with aura). Absurd. You also need to do Faith faculty training, which is basically useless considering Byleth has a garbage white spell list and you never want to heal with your powerhouse anyways.
Sure, you can pull it off quite easily, or you can instead spend your points pulling off axes for deathblow or riding for cavalier or flying for pegasus or hell, even just straight up boring swords.

 

Holy Knight Byleth is probably better than Paladin Byleth. You're still going to be using swords in most cases, and Holy Knight Byleth only needs to get C-lances to get there. Byleth also has +Proficiency in Faith magic, so C Lance / B+ Faith / A Riding sounds easier to me than A Lance / A Riding. I think Holy Knight is Byleth's most natural riding class.

 

Consider the endgame riding classes:

* Falcoknight requires Sword C, Lance A, Flying B+

* Wyvern Lord requires C Lance / A Axe / A Flying

* Bow Knight requires C Lance / A Bow / A Riding

* Dark Knight requires C Lance / B+ Reason / A Riding.

* Holy Knight requires C Lance / B+ Faith / A Riding

* Paladin requires A Lance / A Riding

* Great Knight requires lol B+ Axe / A Armor / B+ Riding.

 

-----------

 

Byleth has access to Heal and Restore. Its actually very easy for Byleth to get +Faith ranks. All other endgame riding classes require you to pump two non-proficient skills for Byleth. Yes, Wyvern lord can be done, but none of Lance / Axe / Flying are Byleth proficiencies. If you want to talk opportunity cost: lets talk about 20-wexp per Adv. Drill instead of +30 wexp each time you get +Faith training from Rhea.

 

Holy knight Byleth is Byleth's easiest riding class by far. Enlightened One Byleth is cool because you get Swordfaire without having to take an exam, so Enlightened One is a very solid mid-game option.

 

52 minutes ago, Stroud said:

The possibility to set up Defiant Avo in late game, which does not sync well with Nosferatu. Also Brawlers come with Tome Breaker, so against Tome users they have at around 140 hit in later game. I think there are also enemies with Tome Breaker+ around, they have 150 hit against Tome users.  

 

The "Breaker" abilities become incredibly common on Hard mode and Maddening. Swordmasters with Axebreaker+ will wreak your Wyverns. Falcos with Lancefaire + Swordbreaker will wreak your dancer. Wyvern Lords with Lancebreaker+ will  wreak your Falcoknights.

 

True, Grapplers and Warmasters have Tomebreaker. But that's par for the course. Welcome to hard mode or maddening mode.

 

50 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

If I want to pull enemies out of position, I would ideally want to actually damage them at the same time so as to make killing them on player phase easier - which this fails miserably at doing. Aside from that, there's the matter of opportunity cost. That ability slot White Magic Avoid +20 is taking up could go to something that's much more useful. What are YOU willing to give up for that??? 

 

I answered this earlier: Byleth: White Magic Avoid +20, Faith Proficiency, Sword Proficiency, Weight -3 +1 spare skill (maybe +1 Mov or maybe Axebreaker).

 

Still room for Death Blow too. 5 abilities is a lot to play with. I guess it could be Alert Stance+ at endgame, but once again, White Magic Avoid +20 comes into play after your 6th +Faith discussion with Rhea, its an incredibly early ability. You can get +Faith before you get +2 Speed from Myrmidon mastery even. Even if you think that Alert Stance or Alert Stance+ is worthwhile on Byleth, it still brings up the question "why not both" ?? Alert Stance + White Magic Avoid +20 will give Byleth more than enough avoid to dodge pretty much everything, but he probably has to stay in Enlightened One status for that to happen.

Edited by dragontamer

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41 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

 

Holy Knight Byleth is probably better than Paladin Byleth. You're still going to be using swords in most cases, and Holy Knight Byleth only needs to get C-lances to get there. Byleth also has +Proficiency in Faith magic, so C Lance / A Faith / A Riding sounds easier to me than A Lance / A Riding. I think Holy Knight is Byleth's most natural riding class.

Byleth has access to Heal and Restore. Its actually very easy for Byleth to get +Faith ranks. All other endgame riding classes require you to pump two non-proficient skills for Byleth. Yes, Wyvern lord can be done, but none of Lance / Axe / Flying are Byleth proficiencies. If you want to talk opportunity cost: lets talk about 20-wexp per Adv. Drill instead of +30 wexp each time you get +Faith training from Rhea.

 

Holy knight Byleth is Byleth's easiest riding class by far. Enlightened One Byleth is cool because you get Swordfaire without having to take an exam, so Enlightened One is a very solid mid-game option.

Paladin only wants B/B, has one more Mov, comes 10 levels earlier, has Lancefaire, and you don't have to lose your time with WORTHLESS faith (we're talking heal and restore! Honestly?). And you can use that time to get bows and go into Bow Knight, which is just behind Wyvern Lord for the "most broken" award. Bows are conveniently the best weapon in general, and using a lance early on means Tempest Lance and Knightkneeler, a lot more relevant than tanking with a 1mt-8wt spell if you ask me.

Wyvern Lord is certainly a high opportunity cost in term of proficiencies, but it's broken so who cares, it makes it worth it and you go by Brigand which is even better. And for F!Byleth it's probably the best path since you're going Pegasus anyway (I hope).

The point is, you don't want to invest anything into White Magic for Byleth (it takes 12 activity points just to unlock his talent!), he doesn't get Physic, no Fortify, no Rescue, no Warp, no Abraxas, no Seraphim, it's complete and utter TRASH. If you go Holy Knight you have to lose your time for worthless spells, at that point you might as well go Dark Knight, at least you have something to do with your magic. Or just go WL/BK which are straight up better.

And to add to this, Byleth is going to be one of your powerhouses (and in Maddening you're not getting a lot of those) so you need to have him always in the front lines grinding meat, healing with him means losing a very precious turn.

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