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Would you have liked shapeshifters? How would they work?


Dragoncat
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Shapeshifters in 3H  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Would 3H benefit from shapeshifters?

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      29


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Had a conversation with @Hawkwing today regarding how Three Houses could have handled shapeshifters. He brought up that with the school setting, the shapeshifters could learn multiple forms. I said that might work, although one that can go hawk and tiger might be OP, or make no sense. This is what I came up with:

Avarians: feathered wings in human form, can fly. Can learn eagle, owl, vulture, and raven forms. Most loyal to the Adrestian Empire. Weak against bows.

Felarians: cat ears and tails in human form. Can learn lion, tiger, cheetah, and lynx forms. Most loyal to the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus. Weak against magic.

Cervarians: deer ears and antlers (on males) in human form. Can learn deer, elk, moose, and antelope forms. Most loyal to the Leicester Alliance. Weak against anti cavalry weapons. Females kick instead of goring with the antlers they do not have.

You'd have to recruit these to your house via paralogues/sidequests and you will probably only get one of each. I'm thinking the gender you get depends on your Byleth. For the avarian this doesn't do much in terms of aesthetics, but male lions have manes, male deer have antlers, females do not, so it would be different for the felarian and cervarian. The gender of the shapeshifter is the opposite of your Byleth's.

Storywise, these shapeshifters began appearing when the three houses of Garreg Mach formed, since they are basically the house mascots. Yet they are illusive and keep mostly to themselves.

What do you all think?

Edited by Dragoncat
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I believe shapeshifter would be like the professor units, being route neutral  but recruitable in  random paralogue.

They would work similar to Corrin, having a stone to transform but also being able to use other weapons 

Not really fan of them being able to transform into anything.

 

 

Edited by Mylady
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2 minutes ago, Mylady said:

I believe shapeshifter would be like the professor units, being route neutral  but recruitable in  random paralogue.

I'm thinking this too. I mean, they can lean toward a certain human nation, but Byleth is special.

Also, if it wasn't clear, they can only become those four animals listed. Avarians can't become lynxes for example.

Edited by Dragoncat
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I found it to be kinda refreshing actually to not have shapeshifters, at least in the sense of beast peoples that continue to display animal traits in their humanoid forms. Doesn't help that I found both Awakening and especially Fates handled them in a wholly uninteresting way - they seemed to be there because some people find them cute. I've never played the Tellius games but they seem to be the thematic core of the game so I'm fine with them in that context, but that kind of context is impossible to retrospectively establish in Three Houses.

Generally speaking, I tend to prefer the low-fantasy aesthetic anyway. It's the same reason I like that FE has no elves and dwarves and other such fantasy staples. I'd prefer no dragons too for once but I can't have everything I suppose.

Better perhaps would be simply exploring the nature of the shapeshifters that already exist in Fodlan. I don't know if the game even ever explains whether the Agarthan's use of it is something inherent to them, or whether it's magic that could potentially be acquired for example.

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1 minute ago, Humanoid said:

Better perhaps would be simply exploring the nature of the shapeshifters that already exist in Fodlan. I don't know if the game even ever explains whether the Agarthan's use of it is something inherent to them, or whether it's magic that could potentially be acquired for example.

The Agarthans were creating unnatural ones. The people that became demon beasts couldn't shift back and lost their souls basically. That's different.

I think what you mean is the Nabateans, the dragon race Rhea belongs to.

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1 minute ago, Dragoncat said:

The Agarthans were creating unnatural ones. The people that became demon beasts couldn't shift back and lost their souls basically. That's different. 

I think what you mean is the Nabateans, the dragon race Rhea belongs to.

Nah, I mean the "assuming other people's identities" type of shapeshifting, not "turning into another species" shapeshifting.

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1 minute ago, Humanoid said:

Nah, I mean the "assuming other people's identities" type of shapeshifting, not "turning into another species" shapeshifting.

Oh I see. I had forgotten about this.

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I wouldn't be a fan. One of Three Houses' big reforms is that anyone can become any class (save for gender-locks, and personals of the main characters). Shapeshifters would just introduce more "well, except for"s, and honestly they haven't fit well into games with reclassing systems. Plus, the game has some pretty strong lore as it is, such that shapeshifters would either come across as an afterthought (like in Fates), or just an unnecessary complication (like imagine Genealogy getting remade with shapeshifters, oh but they have nothing to do with the holy blood system). Finally, shapeshifters tend to be... boring? Whereas the beorc got plenty of weapons, laguz were locked to one attack each. Awakening and Fates improved this slightly with varied Dragon/Beast stones, but overall they never seemed that versatile. They just do one thing. ...Unless you reclass them, but then, why were they shapeshifters in the first place?

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21 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Finally, shapeshifters tend to be... boring? Whereas the beorc got plenty of weapons, laguz were locked to one attack each. Awakening and Fates improved this slightly with varied Dragon/Beast stones, but overall they never seemed that versatile. They just do one thing. ...Unless you reclass them, but then, why were they shapeshifters in the first place?

I once wanted to make a fangame where laguz each got two weapons to choose from, like beasts would get claws and fangs for example. Shapeshifters have never been boring to me, because come on they turn into awesome animals and I love having giant battle critters.

Fair points you made though. Well, now imagine if they were more important in the lore? Or like, playable Nabateans that shift in the field?

Edited by Dragoncat
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i don't like shapeshifters, unless they have an actual reason to exist and a role to play in the world (laguz, manakete)

i think 3H's story would've changed too much if shapeshifters were a thing and had reasons to be a thing, so for me it's a no

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Honestly, as I said in another thread, I think it would have been cool if, as a way to explore more about what the heck crest monsters even are, they had a Crimson Flower mission about some TWS research about partial, temporary demonic beast transformations, which you got to train one of your units in using like the pre-timeskip dancer class as a reward for beating the paralogue. These wouldn't be four-square monstrosities, nowhere near as powerful, but they'd be able to assume altered forms and come back while still keeping their mind.

And in the process it would be nearly impossible to do that without letting us learn something about crest monsters other than what you can find on the unit info blurbs.

Edited by Alastor15243
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In a sort of way we have that with Demonic Beasts, but that's not much like Laguz and their offshoots.

I don't really think it suits the story. It wouldn't be so horrifying that people can be turned into Demonic Beasts if random people could also turn into various other things. Same with the Immaculate One - doesn't have much impact if there are manaketes running around.

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4 hours ago, De Geso said:

I don't really think it suits the story. It wouldn't be so horrifying that people can be turned into Demonic Beasts if random people could also turn into various other things. Same with the Immaculate One - doesn't have much impact if there are manaketes running around.

1: The shapeshifters have it built into their biology and keep their soul, versus go beast and you're gone.

2: There was a "manakete" race that the Immaculate One was, I think.

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Honestly, yes. I love shapeshifters in the series. It would have been nice to see a character or 2 that have managed to take control of themselves even after turning into demonic beasts. They could explain this using a certain crest or something. 

Spoiler

Just an example, maybe Marianne can transform into a beast and control it because she has crest of the beast. Or a unique class for Seteth and Flayn.

 

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I assumed the thread was gonna be about manaketes, which yeah could've been interesting, since there's lore behind it. But like, Kaden and Keaton who come from X country that has no bearing on the story and can randomly transform? No, that wouldn't have added anything, just as it didn't add anything in Awakening or Fates. And like others said having different shifters running around would make the existence of dragons kind of underwhelming in comparison, which in the story has to be a big deal.

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I only liked beast units in Tellius where it was extremely plot relevant.  The thing is, they are either really really good, or really really bad... or just perform better in a different class (like in Awakening/Fates).  

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Personally, I think it's for the best that they didn't have them - if Radiant Dawn is any indication, there's too little wiggle room when it comes to the quality of shifters as units.

On 9/23/2019 at 7:55 PM, Dragoncat said:

The Agarthans were creating unnatural ones. The people that became demon beasts couldn't shift back and lost their souls basically. That's different.

In other words, something like the Feral Ones in the Tellius series?

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Just now, Shadow Mir said:

In other words, something like the Feral Ones in the Tellius series?

If they were ever in a state where they could go back and forth and it was natural, yes.

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On 9/24/2019 at 9:46 PM, Emperor Hardin said:

Shapeshifters are only good if there's a real reason for there existence like Tellius. No one wants a repeat of the taguel.

Fair point the shapeshifters in Fates and Awakening were random, but they are cool. I'd like to see them returning in future games but with  more developed arcs

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Well I would like Manakets to be able to turn into their dragon form. Or recruitable Agathians that can change between their human and not so human form. Or the abillity to turn into a demonic beast fora few rounds....  So I voted yes, but I am not a fan of the other shapeshifter ideas which look like their only there to have shapeshifter classes.

 

I also wouldnt implement them as extra classes but as an alternative to the gambit system. So instead of beeing follwed by a goon squat they can send at someone 3 times a battle these shapeshifters could turn into a dragon (e.g.) for 1 round 3 times a battle.

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