Why did Marth go to Talys and not Aurelis?

[Jotari]

Here's a map of Archanea.

 

At the point where Marth flees, Archanea itself has already fallen. Cornelius was trying to liberate it when he was betrayed and killed. Marth is faced with the prospective of sailing between Gra and Dolunan, then all around Archanea which is still in the midst of chaotic war at best and under the thumb of Doluna and worst, then, by the island of Pyrathi, which is home to a Manakete king that is extremely hostile to tress passers, before finally arriving at Talys. This is an incredibly long and dangerous journey to get to a remote place when there's a friendly ally still fighting right next door. In fact, Marth bringing his forces to Aurelis is what turns the entire tide of the war when the game finally starts. If they'd done that a few years earlier then the war would have been much easier as parts of Archanea were probably still fighting (unless we're meant to believe Marth trained like a shonen protagonist in those two years and that's what made all the difference).

My own attempt at an explanation is that maybe Jiol had a navy blockade in the strait between Archanea preventing access to Aurelis by sea. Although I'd imagine Doluna and Macedonia would be attacking Archanea by sea at the time and would just as easily have a blockade between the straits there. Though I suppose maybe an Archanean navy could have been giving them enough trouble to allow them to slip passed (coming to think of it, it's weird that naval warfare isn't a big focus in the Archanean games given how most of the nations are islands and peninsulas. Chalk it up to primitive game technology I guess. Although Gaiden manage to have several ship fights despite also being NES).

The other possibility is that Aurelis was still fighting, and Jeigan specifically wanted Marth away from anywhere that could get involved in the war, even if it meant abandoning the only fighting ally left on the entire continent. This would effectively mean they've given up the war and never seriously intend to reclaim Altea, which is kind of a perspective the anime took. In this scenario, it's possible Marth did in fact go to Aurelis, but then continued to flee to Talys using the (probably at this time) much safe sea of Galder.

Anyway, what do you think of this? Why didn't, or couldn't Marth have gone to Aurelis when it was much closer and just as much an ally as Talys (in fact a more solid ally, Talys has no military, they could have sold Marth right off to Doluna in exchange for not being completely annihilate by Doluna).

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jotari

[Gregster101]

Talys is a tiny island, so the Dolunan Empire wouldn't think to search there for Marth

[Etrurian emperor]

It could be because they already know the king of Talys to be a friend while they don't know king Aurelius. After Jiol already betrayed them it would be a gamble counting on king Talys' friendship but knocking on the door of a complete stranger is probably the bigger gamble. 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It could be because they already know the king of Talys to be a friend while they don't know king Aurelius. After Jiol already betrayed them it would be a gamble counting on king Talys' friendship but knocking on the door of a complete stranger is probably the bigger gamble. 

Adding to this, in context Aurelis was not only under Macedon attack at the time(see: The Beginning and Crimson Dragoon) , Hardin wasn't exactly the easiest person to trust since he caused a ruckus in Aurelis, big enough to have Archanea take part in it.

Marth arrival in Aurelis goes well thanks to various factor, the Aurelis Archanea Talys alliance had a strong hand in individual manpower, and they would have a WAY higher morale thanks to Marth's arrival being done EXACTLY after Nyna made her call for help to the continent, something that is only set up after the period where Marth escaped to Talys

[Icelerate]

He wanted to fuck Caeda. 

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

He wanted to fuck Caeda. 

Did he even know about her at the time?

[EricaofRenais]

52 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Did he even know about her at the time?

In old times marriages were decided at birth or shortly after for nobles.  Marth probably knew about Caeda since he was old enough to understand what adults were talking about.

As to the first question, I think it was partly because of not wanting to trust a stranger and partly because of enemy ships. 

[Acacia Sgt]

The idea to head to Talys was about keeping Marth safe and away from the war, at least until he could be ready. The island is remote enough that even after 2-3 years it was still untouched by the war. King Mostyn tells Marth that he's now ready, after he stops the pirate attack, telling him to head to Aurelis. Such an opportunity wouldn't have been there if he had gone to Aurelis, being so close and then part of the frontlines.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

In old times marriages were decided at birth or shortly after for nobles.  Marth probably knew about Caeda since he was old enough to understand what adults were talking about.

As to the first question, I think it was partly because of not wanting to trust a stranger and partly because of enemy ships. 

Marth's marriage to Shiida wasn't arranged. She was about to bail on him because he was too oblivious to ask her out.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Because IS put Talys at the edge of the map, because IS wanted to have a game where the main hero travels most of the world.

Given this all stems from an NES game, I wouldn't place any great logic behind it, the developers certainly couldn't have. And IS has shown little interest in coming up with a logical retcon for this.

[Emperor Hardin]

Hardin was still fighting his rebellion and Aurelis was a fairly well known location as one of the places still fighting.

Malladeus wanted to take Marth to a location under the radar where he could be entirely overlooked by Dolhr and its allies for several years, allowing the young boy to become a teenager.

[Pengaius]

Spoiler

The mountains that on the coast of Aurelius would be far to dangerous to traverse, with Marth's mostly mounted knights and the fact that they'd be crawling with bandits. The only safe part of the Aurelian coast would require sailing right beside Gra, who would still be looking for Marth, which would be a big no-no for our protagonist. With Grust basically not having a military on standby (sable order and Camus in Archanea) and Dolhr not seeing Marth as a threat (Medeus' arrogance and the fact that the falchion was with the unkillable Gharnef) sailing south from Altea and around Macedon (who's main forces were off fighting for Dolhr) was a far safer option, Talys was basically insignificant in the war and would be mostly ignored until the entire mainland was under Dolhrian rule, so it was the safest place for Marth to hide. 

Is what I think, but yeah as @Interdimensional Observer said; IS just went LMAO yeet, and stuck Marth there for the lulz. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Pengaius
spoiler tag

[Emperor Hardin]

6 minutes ago, Pengaius said:

Is what I think, but yeah as @Interdimensional Observer said; IS just went LMAO yeet, and stuck Marth there for the lulz. 

I think a major reason is Aurelis was still fighting and Malladeus wanted to take Marth somewhere under the radar where he could grow up in peace where the sounds of battle couldn't reach him.

[eclipse]

Maybe they were old allies or something?  Given what Caeda said about her country in FE12, this isn't a horrible stretch of the imagination.

[Acacia Sgt]

13 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Maybe they were old allies or something?  Given what Caeda said about her country in FE12, this isn't a horrible stretch of the imagination.

Not sure on allies; but the monarchs were certainly friendly with each other.

Malledus:
“From here, we will cross out of Altea and begin our escape to Talys. I trust you are prepared?”

Marth:
“Talys… I’ve heard the name. An island kingdom to the east, isn’t it?”

Malledus:
“That is correct. The king there was a good friend to your father- and perhaps more importantly, a true friend. It was Princess Elice’s wish that you seek refuge in Talys should things ever go awry.”

Now I wonder if Cornelius was also there helping Mostyn and Lorenz with the whole "unite the island" business.

[X-Naut]

1) Mostyn is a friend of Cornelius and someone they can count on for support.
2) Talys is the furthest place away from the triumvirate of Dohlr, Grust and Macedon, while Aurelis is on the warpath.
3) They can travel by sea instead of land,  which would require crossing through the war zone. It's a longer trip but also safer.

Edited September 24, 2019 by X-Naut

[JimmyBeans]

28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Malledus:
“That is correct. The king there was a good friend to your father- and perhaps more importantly, a true friend. It was Princess Elice’s wish that you seek refuge in Talys should things ever go awry.”

Ya this makes a lot of sense given Elice would be more concerned over Marth's safety being away from the war rather than the most tactical position which is Aurelis.

On the other hand this makes me wonder if Marth's existence in Talys is what caused the pirates of Galder to attack in the first place, what stopped them from doing it before given that Talys has no military? Maybe they were just taking advantage of the war since no one could help Talys at the time? Or maybe they were tipped off by Gharnef who certaintly knew what potential threat Cornelius bloodline could be, which is why he takes Falchion and Elice.

I like to think Gharnef found out where Marth was and tipped off some pirates to get rich off Talys hoping Marth would die as well expecting him to be weak. Also in chapter 2 Ogma says

Spoiler

“Prince Marth, I am Ogma, a mercenary of Talys. The king has bid me and my three men join your army. Cavalry has arrived from the west, flying Grust’s standard. They mean to take your life, sire. Be careful.”

I've always found it weird that randomly 2 Grust Cavaliers are with the pirates trying to kill Marth, and that they are there because they know he is there. Maybe this was also a result of Gharnef, or maybe with Lorenz's connection to Talys he, out of duty, notified soldiers of Marth's existence.

I know this is a little off topic but this thread got me thinking....

 

Also PS @Acacia Sgt I just needed to fanboy a little bit because I finally found someone on SF who appreciates one of the best games ever made. <<It's Time>>

[eclipse]

@JimmyBeans my take is that the pirate attacks have always been a thing, but Mostyn felt that it was time for Marth to prove himself.  The Grust cavaliers in Chapter 2 could've been scouts, perhaps surveying the island to see if it was worth taking over, got wind of a runaway prince, and decided to sweeten their report ("Talys is ripe for the taking, and here's Marth's head").  Regardless, they get their butts kicked, and Marth moves on.

EDIT: As this is specific to the Archanea games (namely FE11), off to the Shadow Dragon subforum with this.

Edited September 24, 2019 by eclipse

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Because IS put Talys at the edge of the map, because IS wanted to have a game where the main hero travels most of the world.

Given this all stems from an NES game, I wouldn't place any great logic behind it, the developers certainly couldn't have. And IS has shown little interest in coming up with a logical retcon for this.

I considered that, but starting in Aureles would only eliminate three chapters.

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

@JimmyBeans my take is that the pirate attacks have always been a thing, but Mostyn felt that it was time for Marth to prove himself.  The Grust cavaliers in Chapter 2 could've been scouts, perhaps surveying the island to see if it was worth taking over, got wind of a runaway prince, and decided to sweeten their report ("Talys is ripe for the taking, and here's Marth's head").  Regardless, they get their butts kicked, and Marth moves on.

EDIT: As this is specific to the Archanea games (namely FE11), off to the Shadow Dragon subforum with this.

I put it in general since I didnt know where to go between NES/SNES and DS.

[Acacia Sgt]

Map placement matters little. If the writers want the story to trek across the continent, they will find ways to do, no matter how the countries are placed. You can be sure that if they had decided for Marth to flee to Aurelis instead of Talys, they would've come up with an excuse to have him travel to Talys anyway. One example I can think of is that instead of going south to Archanea by land, it would be by ship. So off the goes through the Goul's Teeth, Galder, Talys, and Pyrathi too for that matter.

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

@JimmyBeans my take is that the pirate attacks have always been a thing, but Mostyn felt that it was time for Marth to prove himself.  The Grust cavaliers in Chapter 2 could've been scouts, perhaps surveying the island to see if it was worth taking over, got wind of a runaway prince, and decided to sweeten their report ("Talys is ripe for the taking, and here's Marth's head").  Regardless, they get their butts kicked, and Marth moves on.

EDIT: As this is specific to the Archanea games (namely FE11), off to the Shadow Dragon subforum with this.

It wouldn't surprise me. By the time Marth reaches Aurelis, they are already on the ropes. It's likely part of the enemy forces were already deciding to survey the last part of the continent they had yet to subjugate (well, except for Pyrathi; but since it has a Manakete King it's likely Medeus would leave them alone since the place already fulfills the kind of world he wanted to create). So off they go some scouts to survey Galder and maybe Talys.

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, JimmyBeans said:

Ya this makes a lot of sense given Elice would be more concerned over Marth's safety being away from the war rather than the most tactical position which is Aurelis.

On the other hand this makes me wonder if Marth's existence in Talys is what caused the pirates of Galder to attack in the first place, what stopped them from doing it before given that Talys has no military? Maybe they were just taking advantage of the war since no one could help Talys at the time? Or maybe they were tipped off by Gharnef who certaintly knew what potential threat Cornelius bloodline could be, which is why he takes Falchion and Elice.

I like to think Gharnef found out where Marth was and tipped off some pirates to get rich off Talys hoping Marth would die as well expecting him to be weak. Also in chapter 2 Ogma says

  Reveal hidden contents

“Prince Marth, I am Ogma, a mercenary of Talys. The king has bid me and my three men join your army. Cavalry has arrived from the west, flying Grust’s standard. They mean to take your life, sire. Be careful.”

I've always found it weird that randomly 2 Grust Cavaliers are with the pirates trying to kill Marth, and that they are there because they know he is there. Maybe this was also a result of Gharnef, or maybe with Lorenz's connection to Talys he, out of duty, notified soldiers of Marth's existence.

I know this is a little off topic but this thread got me thinking....

Also PS @Acacia Sgt I just needed to fanboy a little bit because I finally found someone on SF who appreciates one of the best games ever made. <<It's Time>>

Its said the pirates of Galder were basically a small force, slowly building up power; first taking over a port, then the town and then moving onto sieging the capital of Talys leading to Marth's journey.

Come to think of it, I wonder how the Pirates of Galder got started? Perhaps they were forcibly recruited as a navy, then rebelled and decided to start their own faction as often happens with pirates?

I'm not sure if Gharnef was involved but Grust was clearly on its way to finding Marth, Ogma even points this out on the second map, hence the Grustian cavaliers.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Emperor Hardin