Tips for no Online, no DLC, no New Game+ Maddening Classic run?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

You do realize you just contradicted yourself about Lysithea being able to one shot him, do you not? Not that I'm shocked that someone tries to hype her up and fails - she's honestly the single most overrated character in the game.

Well yes, I did. "Killed em in one hit" is just a phrase I like to throw around nowadays. She does over 2/3 of his health though, so that's still pretty good. I think her high rating is deserved.

Edited September 30, 2019 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Cysx]

Something I don't see a lot but definitely helps a ton is: Use. Speed. Cooking. Do it as much as you can, every week if possible.

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, Cysx said:

Something I don't see a lot but definitely helps a ton is: Use. Speed. Cooking. Do it as much as you can, every week if possible.

Does cooking for the same stat stack bonuses?

[Silly]

Yes.

You can pretty easily get +2 or +3 speed on everybody for each chapter via cooking bonuses.

[Elephantus]

25 minutes ago, Silly said:

Yes.

You can pretty easily get +2 or +3 speed on everybody for each chapter via cooking bonuses.

Not to mention Bullheads are pretty easy to catch even with mid-tier bait.

[Chaotix]

3 hours ago, Elephantus said:

Not to mention Bullheads are pretty easy to catch even with mid-tier bait.

If you're doing it right and grinding for fish on the Fistfuls of Fish days to get your Professor Rank up, you will most likely hit 99 Bullheads and even have to start selling them. At that point you're set for the rest of the game.

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, Silly said:

Yes.

You can pretty easily get +2 or +3 speed on everybody for each chapter via cooking bonuses.

 

5 hours ago, Elephantus said:

Not to mention Bullheads are pretty easy to catch even with mid-tier bait.

 

2 hours ago, Chaotix said:

If you're doing it right and grinding for fish on the Fistfuls of Fish days to get your Professor Rank up, you will most likely hit 99 Bullheads and even have to start selling them. At that point you're set for the rest of the game.

Thanks, all!

[Shadow Mir]

17 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Well yes, I did. "Killed em in one hit" is just a phrase I like to throw around nowadays. She does over 2/3 of his health though, so that's still pretty good. I think her high rating is deserved.

You really think she's one of the best units in the game? Because you'd have a hell of a time trying to convince me of that. I don't think she's that much better than any of the other mages, especially since her exclusive use of dark magic is liable to cause her to have problems accuracy wise. In any instance, as stated earlier, you'd have to draw in DK first, and whoever you try to have do that is likely not making it out alive.

[TWrex]

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

You really think she's one of the best units in the game? Because you'd have a hell of a time trying to convince me of that. I don't think she's that much better than any of the other mages, especially since her exclusive use of dark magic is liable to cause her to have problems accuracy wise. In any instance, as stated earlier, you'd have to draw in DK first, and whoever you try to have do that is likely not making it out alive.

She struggles early game due to her spells weighing alot and indeed having poor accuracy but she becomes a powerhouse once you get her leveled and into the advanced classes.  Lysithea is one of the few characters in my squad who is capable of one-rounding enemy units in Maddening mode since she doesn't have to worry about doubling and instead just nukes them.  Access to Seraphim also makes her very helpful in taking out monsters as again she can just one-shot a health bar on them most of the time leaving your other units open to do other things.

 

Lysithea has come in clutch in many instances for me where there is a stupidly fast unit that would take at least two units to kill where she can just nuke them by herself.  I could just be unlucky but I don't have any other unit on my team who is as reliable at this except for my Gauntlets Byleth.  Now a large amount of her viability comes from Thyrsus but even without it I would think she is still very good.  This also ignores her having warp which can allow you to circumvent some tricky situations by just yeeting someone to the boss and killing them.

[Silly]

I actually think that the HP inflation in Maddening makes it somewhat hard to consistently one-shot enemies with Lysithea unless you're really minmaxing.

For example, a generic swordmaster in the GD endgame has 72 HP and 20 Res. Even if we assume you're using the strongest spell Lysithea has, that still means that you need to hit 74 magic (minus your battalion stats), which is certainly nowhere near trivial to do on Maddening (unless you're literally gardening for magic boosters the whole game, but that comes at the opportunity cost of making your other units worse).

Demonic Beasts are also sometimes hard to kill if you don't double them, because some of them have ridiculous HP pools that even a single effective hit won't take down. For example, the Winged Beast in same endgame chapter requires 67 magic on Lysithea to one shot even its first HP bar. It's last HP bar is significantly harder to ORKO.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Silly

[Shadow Mir]

54 minutes ago, TWrex said:

She struggles early game due to her spells weighing alot and indeed having poor accuracy but she becomes a powerhouse once you get her leveled and into the advanced classes.  Lysithea is one of the few characters in my squad who is capable of one-rounding enemy units in Maddening mode since she doesn't have to worry about doubling and instead just nukes them.  Access to Seraphim also makes her very helpful in taking out monsters as again she can just one-shot a health bar on them most of the time leaving your other units open to do other things.

 

Lysithea has come in clutch in many instances for me where there is a stupidly fast unit that would take at least two units to kill where she can just nuke them by herself.  I could just be unlucky but I don't have any other unit on my team who is as reliable at this except for my Gauntlets Byleth.  Now a large amount of her viability comes from Thyrsus but even without it I would think she is still very good.  This also ignores her having warp which can allow you to circumvent some tricky situations by just yeeting someone to the boss and killing them.

Problem is, so do most of the other mages, except they enjoy +5 to their spells, which Lysithea does not. Also, I kinda have a hard time buying into Lysithea being able to one hit most of anything on Maddening. Just look at this:

https://imgur.com/a/r4bqbRQ

How many of those do YOU see Lysithea one shotting??? My answer - and smart money is on.... Not a single one of them. They're just way too bulky to OHKO. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

You really think she's one of the best units in the game? Because you'd have a hell of a time trying to convince me of that. I don't think she's that much better than any of the other mages, especially since her exclusive use of dark magic is liable to cause her to have problems accuracy wise. In any instance, as stated earlier, you'd have to draw in DK first, and whoever you try to have do that is likely not making it out alive.

Her main draws are being the only mage capable of getting Dark Spikes in time for Chapter 4 and getting Warp at B instead of A for earlier access, which will have massive range due to her high Mag growth. She also can provide safe long-range chip with Thyrsus and Magic Range +1 later on, but combat wise late game she isn't expected to carry in an optimal run.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Her main draws are being the only mage capable of getting Dark Spikes in time for Chapter 4 and getting Warp at B instead of A for earlier access, which will have massive range due to her high Mag growth. She also can provide safe long-range chip with Thyrsus and Magic Range +1 later on, but combat wise late game she isn't expected to carry in an optimal run.

And your point is...? Because frankly, I still think she does not live up to the hype. And it ain't like Thyrsus is only usable by her. Or that magic range +1 is coming into play any time soon.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

And your point is...? Because frankly, I still think she does not live up to the hype. And it ain't like Thyrsus is only usable by her. Or that magic range +1 is coming into play any time soon.

My point is that she's the best mage in the game.

Pretty much every mage has a rough start in this game, largely due to limited spell uses early on, low power of spells and the weight system making them have terrible ASpd for quite a while. She doesn't gain access to 3 range damage unlike Dorothea/Hubert/Marianne, but as I mentioned, she is able to quickly rush to B Reason for Dark Spikes, which can give you a lot more breathing room in Chapter 4 by either baiting Death Knight with someone with 14 AS (which Byleth can reach on average with Rally Spd from Ignatz or Annette) or using Stride to take the middle (harder to do because you also have to contest the mages at the same time but 100% possible). Dark Spikes is useful again in Chapter 6 for the rematch against Death Knight. Those two contributions alone put her above the other mages, as everyone else is doing chip damage for various enemies at best (which is something Lysithea can still partake in, just not from 3 range).

Getting Warp a full two ranks before any other Warp user is a pretty huge boon since it saves a lot of investment. It lets her participate in more strategies, including ending maps faster, reaching objectives easier, participating in Warp + Rescue strategies etc. It's just an all-around flexible spell. Her Warp range will be the largest of the three users, and it is just large period as you get later into the game (which is when Warp increasingly gains value). Having Warp access and also being the best Warper is important for her long term viability, because while mages start to get more competent combat wise, they're also falling off at the same time because they have 4 Mov for quite a while while you're getting a bunch of mounts for other units, and Dark Knight/Holy Knight both come late and have their own problems.

Thyrsus usage isn't unique to her of course, but there aren't many units that challenge her ownership of it since among the starting mages only Marianne has both a Crest and Thoron. You can give it to someone else of your choice, of course. But if you do want to use her in combat, she does have the best offensive growths of all mages.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

And your point is...? Because frankly, I still think she does not live up to the hype. And it ain't like Thyrsus is only usable by her. Or that magic range +1 is coming into play any time soon.

You're incredibly bias against the character. Her growths are easily the best for a caster, her mixed spell list is fantastic, Dark Magic has some fantastic spells (one in particular not getting mentioned is Swarm Z, which lowers spell,) and she absolutely will be able to one-shot most of the middle game, as I just cleared my first Maddening a few days ago.

 

See, you've got a lot of people giving you reasons, but you're not actually giving an argument yourself. You don't have to like her, and you can even say she's overhyped, but don't swing the exact opposite way and rob her of her dues.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Lys is overhyped because she deserves to be overhyped. 

Who else in this game is able to oneshot 90% of the enemies (including high res enemies like pegasus knights) from midgame on? 

Exactly, Queen Lys!

Even if she gets oneshotted in EP, it does not matter. She is a PP unit, the very best one in the entire game. And imo she is better than all three House leaders, at least in maddening, because of her PP usability. In maddening you want to get rid of enemies like pass assassines or pegasus knights asap and Lys is the unit who does it!

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ingrid Brandl Galatea

[Xylaugheon Daily]

As for actual tips for the run, you've got a lot in here that are really good. More than enough to get you through. I just finished my own GD run of this fashion. Things not yet brought up are:

 

Ignatz is early game MVP and will always have some function. C+ Bows gives you Break Shot, -5 to defense, and his Budding Talent is Seal Strength, which is applied with all attacks. That's a very early game ranged debuffer. If you kill DK you can take him down Dark Mage for Poison Strike to help chip away, another fantastic skill. He also has an early Rally Speed, making his usefulness absolutely not to be understated. Once everyone is finally on their way in their own builds you'll see him drop in importance, but he makes getting there so much easier, and debuffing and chip damage is never not welcomed. His accuracy can be good enough to hit reliably at the longest distances, and with Canto and eight move, Bow Knight is an easy fit.

 

Recruit Petra and focus her as a dodge tank. The reason I suggest her over Felix, who is arguably better for the role, is because she has a much easier time grabbing all the relevant ranks. Petra has an affinity for Swords, Axes, and Flying, where as Felix has an affinity for Swords but also a penalty in Authority.

 

You'll want to grab a few, high end skills. Firstly, always be working on her Flying. Alert Stance+ is an A+ skill, so you'll really need to focus for it. Making her a Pegasus will help get those levels. She'll also want to be your Dancer for the Sword Avoid+20. Axes shouldn't be neglected either, as we want to pick up Wrath. Having them at about a C or so until you can promote into Wyvern is fine. Not only Will this class help with axes and Flying, but it'll help her get more of that strength she could be missing.

 

Once you can enter Warrior, do so. Wrath is a mastery skill for the class. If you're wondering why Wrath, it because we'll be using the Cursed Ashiya Sword,which deals damage every combat in exchange for a 50 crit with the forged variant. You will want to be in Swordmaster class for Swordfaire and Sword Crit+10. Slap on an Evasion Ring for good measure.

 

Once Petra has Alert Stance (not +) and Sword Avoid +20 (the ring if you've got it) you can cheese the game a bit. I even personally used this strategy two or three battles in the late game once it dawned on me. Some Auxiliary Battles don't have enemies with Gambits. Have her with someone who needs to master a class or skill or who needs some levels as an Adjutant and have her solo a map. Watch as she helps improve characters who might be falling behind or who need a lot of development to get where they're going.

 

As for her function in maps, you really only need to be mindful of Gambits. Nothing else will likely hit her, and with crits she'll be able to kill off any enemy she counters. You'll also want to give her Jeralt's Mercs as a Battalion. A small boost to damage with a sizeable increase to avoid and critical at E Rank? Yes, please!

 

Last few points, have at least one fisticuffs character. For me it was Byleth. Early game becomes a lot easier with one, and late game they are even more beastly. Consider picking up Manuela or Hanneman, just to do their paralogue. You can obtain an Experience Gem, granting you 50% more exp. The Knowledge Gems are never more valuable, as getting to certain ranks faster really can make all the difference. Get both, and constantly shift them around.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Xylaugheon Daily

[niveklt]

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Problem is, so do most of the other mages, except they enjoy +5 to their spells, which Lysithea does not. Also, I kinda have a hard time buying into Lysithea being able to one hit most of anything on Maddening. Just look at this:

https://imgur.com/a/r4bqbRQ

How many of those do YOU see Lysithea one shotting??? My answer - and smart money is on.... Not a single one of them. They're just way too bulky to OHKO. 

I just made a serenes account just to reply to you here. I normally prefer to just browse and read and see what people think but here's my endgame team for NG maddening on GD. No aux battles unless they were quests (which i still skipped a few) and paralogues.

https://imgur.com/a/h7VDtYQ

My Lysithea literally is about average on speed and mag (Food giving +2) and her mag is only average because I ended up giving her all of my magic boosters that are given by chests/paralogues. Any seeds that ended up being magic (I think 1 or 2 that run) were given to her as well. If she were to be average on level ups, along with given all my magic boosters (which is favoritism I know) she would be able to 1 shot almost everything there with Luna. The exceptions being the warmasters, heros, and great knights. 

Even if she didn't 1 shot enemies here, she would weaken them enough that anyone else could kill them and not take a counter attack which is much better than most characters on a player phase. In my opinion, ideally you want to be healing as few times as possible and killing during player phase. 

[Cysx]

2 hours ago, niveklt said:

I just made a serenes account just to reply to you here. I normally prefer to just browse and read and see what people think but here's my endgame team for NG maddening on GD. No aux battles unless they were quests (which i still skipped a few) and paralogues.

https://imgur.com/a/h7VDtYQ

My Lysithea literally is about average on speed and mag (Food giving +2) and her mag is only average because I ended up giving her all of my magic boosters that are given by chests/paralogues. Any seeds that ended up being magic (I think 1 or 2 that run) were given to her as well. If she were to be average on level ups, along with given all my magic boosters (which is favoritism I know) she would be able to 1 shot almost everything there with Luna. The exceptions being the warmasters, heros, and great knights. 

Even if she didn't 1 shot enemies here, she would weaken them enough that anyone else could kill them and not take a counter attack which is much better than most characters on a player phase. In my opinion, ideally you want to be healing as few times as possible and killing during player phase. 

Did you get Warp on that file? Black tomefaire + Warp sounds impossible.

Edit: ... but she's a Gremory, so that was a dumb question.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Cysx

[Silly]

1 hour ago, niveklt said:

I just made a serenes account just to reply to you here. I normally prefer to just browse and read and see what people think but here's my endgame team for NG maddening on GD. No aux battles unless they were quests (which i still skipped a few) and paralogues.

https://imgur.com/a/h7VDtYQ

My Lysithea literally is about average on speed and mag (Food giving +2) and her mag is only average because I ended up giving her all of my magic boosters that are given by chests/paralogues. Any seeds that ended up being magic (I think 1 or 2 that run) were given to her as well. If she were to be average on level ups, along with given all my magic boosters (which is favoritism I know) she would be able to 1 shot almost everything there with Luna. The exceptions being the warmasters, heros, and great knights. 

Even if she didn't 1 shot enemies here, she would weaken them enough that anyone else could kill them and not take a counter attack which is much better than most characters on a player phase. In my opinion, ideally you want to be healing as few times as possible and killing during player phase. 

You're going to need 70+ magic to oneshot the average enemy in Ch 22. It is possible to kill things in one hit, but it requires you to minmax significantly and give Lysithea favoritism, which detracts from your other units. If you minmaxed an equal amount on a different good unit, you would likely be able to achieve similar results.

Also, the second point about weakening enemies is really overrated. Do you know what else weakens enemies without taking a counterattack? Literally any other mage can do the same. Anybody with a bow (snipers/bow knights in particular if you need extra range). There are plenty of units that have the ability to fill this role, so it's not a particularly rare niche that you have to have Lysithea to perform.

Lysithea's big strength is early access to Warp, and likely the highest warp range in the game. Depending on your playstyle this could be very important (if you're doing LTC for example, then she is one of the best units). But she is a heavily overrated combat unit.

She does good player phase damage. Maybe even better than your other strong combat units. That is a strength. However she also has incredibly awful bulk (literally every physical enemy on the map one-shots the Lysithea in your screenshot) and poor mobility. That's a weakness.

Compare this to other top tier combat units (which are largely Wyverns). They have great player phase damage as well (particularly if they can double with Death Blow). They also have better bulk (often being able to take 1 or 2 hits before dying), and better avoid (which opens up dodge builds and also just randomly saves on healing actions). They have unparalleled mobility and canto, which often lets them get an attack off from a dangerous tile and then reposition to somewhere much safer. Compared to Lysithea, who is fighting once on player phase, Wyverns can generally fight once on player phase and then reposition to a tile where they fight exactly once or twice on enemy phase.

It's not that Lysithea is a bad combat unit. She's still quite good. It's just that like in many games in the past, mages in this game are niche characters and not "generalist combat units". You should deploy a few mages because it's valuable to have the ability to attack certain enemies with very skewed defensive stats from their weaker side, and the ability to use staff/white magic utility (Physic/Fortify is very valuable to have/Warp ranges from good to of vital importance depending on how you are playing). And given that you probably want a couple of mages, Lysithea is a decent choice for a team. But compared to the top tier physical units, she is clearly not as good at the generic "fighting groups of enemy units that primarily deal physical damage" thing that comprises most chapters, nor should she be. She supplements her worse overall combat with the ability to use Warp, something that a Wyvern can't do, and which can potentially be very valuable. Just like the other good mages supplement their worse combat with the ability to use something like Physic or Fortify, which is another valuable tool that your team wants to have.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Silly

[TWrex]

11 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Problem is, so do most of the other mages, except they enjoy +5 to their spells, which Lysithea does not. Also, I kinda have a hard time buying into Lysithea being able to one hit most of anything on Maddening. Just look at this:

https://imgur.com/a/r4bqbRQ

How many of those do YOU see Lysithea one shotting??? My answer - and smart money is on.... Not a single one of them. They're just way too bulky to OHKO. 

What characters exist in this game that CAN one shot those enemies?  You act as if Lysithea is the only one who can't and therefore she is a bad unit which is absurd.  She's decent in the early game for providing chip and good in the midgame since she can one shot a good chunk of enemies.  Her spell list is also arguably the best one in the game thanks to things like Dark Spike for Death Knight, Luna for any High Res boss, Seraphim for extra damage against beasts and warp for utility.  Her direct competitors are Dorothea, who has a lower Mag growth and Annette who doesn't have any standout spells but does have excellent Rally utility.  Basically if you are going to run a mage on your comp Lysithea is arguably the best one at that role. 

 

Like why exactly do you think she is bad or overhyped?

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

My point is that she's the best mage in the game.

Pretty much every mage has a rough start in this game, largely due to limited spell uses early on, low power of spells and the weight system making them have terrible ASpd for quite a while. She doesn't gain access to 3 range damage unlike Dorothea/Hubert/Marianne, but as I mentioned, she is able to quickly rush to B Reason for Dark Spikes, which can give you a lot more breathing room in Chapter 4 by either baiting Death Knight with someone with 14 AS (which Byleth can reach on average with Rally Spd from Ignatz or Annette) or using Stride to take the middle (harder to do because you also have to contest the mages at the same time but 100% possible). Dark Spikes is useful again in Chapter 6 for the rematch against Death Knight. Those two contributions alone put her above the other mages, as everyone else is doing chip damage for various enemies at best (which is something Lysithea can still partake in, just not from 3 range).

Getting Warp a full two ranks before any other Warp user is a pretty huge boon since it saves a lot of investment. It lets her participate in more strategies, including ending maps faster, reaching objectives easier, participating in Warp + Rescue strategies etc. It's just an all-around flexible spell. Her Warp range will be the largest of the three users, and it is just large period as you get later into the game (which is when Warp increasingly gains value). Having Warp access and also being the best Warper is important for her long term viability, because while mages start to get more competent combat wise, they're also falling off at the same time because they have 4 Mov for quite a while while you're getting a bunch of mounts for other units, and Dark Knight/Holy Knight both come late and have their own problems.

Thyrsus usage isn't unique to her of course, but there aren't many units that challenge her ownership of it since among the starting mages only Marianne has both a Crest and Thoron. You can give it to someone else of your choice, of course. But if you do want to use her in combat, she does have the best offensive growths of all mages.

Which I fail to see when in general, she suffers from the same issues that other mages do. In the context of Maddening, I don't see it as much help to have Dark Spikes for chapter 4 when just luring him is playing Russian Roulette, and chapter 6 doesn't matter either when by that point you've pretty much won since killing everyone else makes you win as well. In any instance, sure, she gets Warp, but in general, that alone isn't enough to make her one of the best units in the game. Her offensive growths are blunted by the fact that when they hit Warlock, other mages get boosts to their spells, but she doesn't.

3 hours ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

You're incredibly bias against the character. Her growths are easily the best for a caster, her mixed spell list is fantastic, Dark Magic has some fantastic spells (one in particular not getting mentioned is Swarm Z, which lowers spell,) and she absolutely will be able to one-shot most of the middle game, as I just cleared my first Maddening a few days ago.

 

See, you've got a lot of people giving you reasons, but you're not actually giving an argument yourself. You don't have to like her, and you can even say she's overhyped, but don't swing the exact opposite way and rob her of her dues.

Cute assumption there. A shame that you happen to be sadly mistaken.

3 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Lys is overhyped because she deserves to be overhyped. 

Who else in this game is able to oneshot 90% of the enemies (including high res enemies like pegasus knights) from midgame on? 

Exactly, Queen Lys!

Even if she gets oneshotted in EP, it does not matter. She is a PP unit, the very best one in the entire game. And imo she is better than all three House leaders, at least in maddening, because of her PP usability. In maddening you want to get rid of enemies like pass assassines or pegasus knights asap and Lys is the unit who does it!

Quoted here: Exactly why I cannot - and will not - take the Lysithea hype seriously. No offense, but this sounds absolutely stupidiculous.

29 minutes ago, TWrex said:

What characters exist in this game that CAN one shot those enemies?  You act as if Lysithea is the only one who can't and therefore she is a bad unit which is absurd.  She's decent in the early game for providing chip and good in the midgame since she can one shot a good chunk of enemies.  Her spell list is also arguably the best one in the game thanks to things like Dark Spike for Death Knight, Luna for any High Res boss, Seraphim for extra damage against beasts and warp for utility.  Her direct competitors are Dorothea, who has a lower Mag growth and Annette who doesn't have any standout spells but does have excellent Rally utility.  Basically if you are going to run a mage on your comp Lysithea is arguably the best one at that role. 

 

Like why exactly do you think she is bad or overhyped?

I am not implying she is a bad unit. At all. I only think she does not live up to the deafening hype she receives, because of course she doesn't. She's good, but I'm not so gullible - or insane - to think she's one of the best units in the game.

2 hours ago, niveklt said:

I just made a serenes account just to reply to you here. I normally prefer to just browse and read and see what people think but here's my endgame team for NG maddening on GD. No aux battles unless they were quests (which i still skipped a few) and paralogues.

https://imgur.com/a/h7VDtYQ

My Lysithea literally is about average on speed and mag (Food giving +2) and her mag is only average because I ended up giving her all of my magic boosters that are given by chests/paralogues. Any seeds that ended up being magic (I think 1 or 2 that run) were given to her as well. If she were to be average on level ups, along with given all my magic boosters (which is favoritism I know) she would be able to 1 shot almost everything there with Luna. The exceptions being the warmasters, heros, and great knights. 

Even if she didn't 1 shot enemies here, she would weaken them enough that anyone else could kill them and not take a counter attack which is much better than most characters on a player phase. In my opinion, ideally you want to be healing as few times as possible and killing during player phase. 

So you admit to giving her favoritism, which can be done with literally anyone else. In any instance, I have a lot of trouble seeing Lysithea one shot anything, since most enemy units in the endgame need something ludicrous like 92 atk or something to OHKO. Also, Luna can only be used twice (4 times if she's a Gremory), so that doesn't really help your case. And as stated earlier, it ain't like she's the only unit that can weaken enemies without being countered.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[niveklt]

1 hour ago, Cysx said:

Did you get Warp on that file? Black tomefaire + Warp sounds impossible.

Yes, its very possible because of mastermind. I set her goals to reason and faith asap. Once she learned warp, I set it to reason + authority. Towards the last few chapters I instructed her to get tomefaire. 

 

40 minutes ago, Silly said:

Stuff

Hey look, I'm not trying to disagree with you, but did you look at my Lysithea in the screenshot? At the end I showed her potentially hitting Nemesis for 71 damage. 

I didn't give her any favoritism, it's just that early game magic is quite powerful because it doesn't calculate hit rates the same as physical damage, meaning it is easier for people to use her to either kill or damage other enemies to gain exp. Also because she is so easily able to kill the death knight on chapter 4 compared to any other strategy, she just gains a fair boost there as well. 

I agree other mages can weaken enemies, that's exactly what my Marianne did when she didn't heal, which was a huge majority of the time late game. I had 1 sniper in Leonie who spammed hunters volley with a killer bow+ which resulted in a kill almost always. 

And I know about wyverns and dodge tanking. If you look at my team, I had 3 of them, each with a different weapon main with a breaker skill to go along with it. 

 

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

So you admit to giving her favoritism, which can be done with literally anyone else. In any instance, I have a lot of trouble seeing Lysithea one shot anything, since most enemy units in the endgame need something ludicrous like 92 atk or something to OHKO. Also, Luna can only be used twice (4 times if she's a Gremory), so that doesn't really help your case. And as stated earlier, it ain't like she's the only unit that can weaken enemies without being countered.

I mean, I admit to giving her my magic stat boosters, but who else is going to be a better choice? If you think giving them to someone with low magic, you aren't dealing any damage with that character to anything late game. If you decide to give them to a healer then...??? That's literally gimping your team, so okay, sure that's favoritism to give them to your mage. 

[TWrex]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Which I fail to see when in general, she suffers from the same issues that other mages do. In the context of Maddening, I don't see it as much help to have Dark Spikes for chapter 4 when just luring him is playing Russian Roulette, and chapter 6 doesn't matter either when by that point you've pretty much won since killing everyone else makes you win as well. In any instance, sure, she gets Warp, but in general, that alone isn't enough to make her one of the best units in the game. Her offensive growths are blunted by the fact that when they hit Warlock, other mages get boosts to their spells, but she doesn't.

Cute assumption there. A shame that you happen to be sadly mistaken.

Quoted here: Exactly why I cannot - and will not - take the Lysithea hype seriously. No offense, but this sounds absolutely stupidiculous.

I am not implying she is a bad unit. At all. I only think she does not live up to the deafening hype she receives, because of course she doesn't. She's good, but I'm not so gullible - or insane - to think she's one of the best units in the game.

So you admit to giving her favoritism, which can be done with literally anyone else. In any instance, I have a lot of trouble seeing Lysithea one shot anything, since most enemy units in the endgame need something ludicrous like 92 atk or something to OHKO. Also, Luna can only be used twice (4 times if she's a Gremory), so that doesn't really help your case. And as stated earlier, it ain't like she's the only unit that can weaken enemies without being countered.

So what exactly is it that you think Lysithea is being overhyped on?  Do you think she is overhyped on being the best mage?  What units are better than her and why are they better?  Does she really receive a deafening amount of hype on any boards discussing unit tiers, particularly maddening?  I'll admit I'm not someone who has perused this forum a lot but of the discussions about unit tiers it seems like most people consider her good but not broken or anything.  To me it seems like Lysithea's weaknesses are low movement and not being able to enemy phase.  Personally low movement doesn't seem like much of a detriment in Maddening difficulty as turtling seems like a better strategy overall, there aren't many if any units in this game who are able to tank more than like 2 enemies without dying so having big movement doesn't really help as much since you should keep your units grouped up anyways.  Not being able to enemy phase does hurt but again since most units can't tank more than a few enemies at once this also feels like not a huge issue. 

 

I don't know maybe it's just the way that I play that I find her valuable?  My strategy in Maddening thus far has been using ranged units to safely chip down enemies then send in my physical units to clean up without getting hurt and Lysithea fulfills this role perfectly.  Yes other mages can do this as well but she seems to be the best one at it thanks to her spell list and growths.  I mean I guess you could sub her out for any other archer unit who can enemy phase while still providing chip damage but compared to my Shamir, Claude, and Leonie none of them have been capable of one rounding an enemy yet like Lysithea has.  The only exception to this is against fliers where they gain bonus damage or Claude and his Failnought.

I mean I guess if I could only pick one character to solo the game with Lysithea would be at the bottom of my list but that's not how I'm ranking my characters.  Lysithea serves her role as a long range nuke well and I consider her just as useful as some of my physical units.  Basically her direct competition would be comparing her to my archers and where she lacks an enemy phase she makes up for it with a stronger player phase.

 

What specifically do you think is being overhyped about her?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

30 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Which I fail to see when in general, she suffers from the same issues that other mages do. In the context of Maddening, I don't see it as much help to have Dark Spikes for chapter 4 when just luring him is playing Russian Roulette, and chapter 6 doesn't matter either when by that point you've pretty much won since killing everyone else makes you win as well. In any instance, sure, she gets Warp, but in general, that alone isn't enough to make her one of the best units in the game. Her offensive growths are blunted by the fact that when they hit Warlock, other mages get boosts to their spells, but she doesn't.

Dealing with Death Knight's 20~30% crit is a risk, but that doesn't mean the strategy doesn't work. you only have to bait him and take one hit, and if he doesn't crit you're in the clear to just execute and nuke him. It's not really as bad as you say. Doing it without Dark Spikes from Lysithea and using Knightkeeler instead is doable even, just much harder since you can only expect about 20-ish damage from a Knightkeeler while Lysithea can do double of that; you may need to employ extra forms of cheese that's more RNG reliant.

Chapter 6 ends faster via killing him directly vs trying to take out everyone else, including the ones that don't actually aggro you.

Warp access in general makes you one of the best units in any Fire Emblem game. Niime is highly regarded in FE6 simply because she joins with A staves and can instantly start Warping you, even though she's garbage in combat. Same goes for Sleuf in Thracia. Having early Warp + having good contributions early game (the hardest part) definitely makes Lysithea stand out in terms of efficiency, and it's hard to measure how good units are without considering that to at least some extent.

Tomefaire is nice, but consider that Dark Magic in general has higher Might than normal Black Magic. The lowest Might spell Lysithea has is Swarm, which is the same Might and Weight as Thunder, the highest Might basic Black Magic spell, but with an additional debuff. Dark Spikes is 13 Might, higher than Thoron by 4, and the only Black Magic spells that have more than that are Agnea's Arrow and Ragnarok, and neither have the utility of horseslaying. Hades beats those two spells in Might as well with 18. Lysithea even has Luna that ignores Res, which actually gives her a way to deal with high Res units without even investing into other weapon types. Lysithea will be 100% going into Gremory anyway, though, which has a +2 Mag modifier over Warlock as well.

Edited October 1, 2019 by SatsumaFSoysoy