Chapter 13 in Blue Lions and Church on maddening gets the reward for being the most frustrating chapter in FE.

[Humanoid]

To add insult to injury, there are quite a few chests and no opportunity to buy chest keys before the map.

[Dual Dragons]

Chapter 13 was easy for me with the following failsafes I did, this being GD:

- In-House Dancer Ignatz. Sniper might be fine but I'd rather have Byleth attack twice than Byleth and Ignatz attacking.
- Lorenz was trained. Yes, this was a pain; yes, I'd rather not train him. He had enough Magic to actually one-round with a Magic Staff or not. As an example, he had enough magic to kill the Assassin on the healing tile nearby with just Caduceus Staff + one of his stronger tomes. And yeah, thanks to being trained, he had Authority to use a high-ranked Magic Battalion to further contribute to damage (+2 from personal). Just to avoid headaches here, it was worth for me to raise this joke of a unit who at best could chip against Resistance or at least Heal.
- Byleth with Brave Lance+ and Swordbreaker as a Wyvern Rider. It might be doable without Swordbreaker but any Braves (maybe not Axe because I think some enemies have Axebreaker) really will help you. You can forge for one with Wootz Steel, and I got all mine through paralogues or story missions.
- Claude with Brave Bow in the convoy in case Swordbreaker Byleth didn't work out. His Attack could be an issue but, theoretically, he gets +7 damage if Byleth has B support and Linked Attack (+5 from Bowfaire). 

I didn't set this up but Hilda has a proficiency for Lances to also do Brave Lance + Swordbreaker for her, if needed. If Leonie and Hilda are fliers, they can skip their section to eventually help the north. Ignatz and Lorenz need help.

Oh yeah, and to state how mad I was for this plan, I hardly used any faculty. Shamir for two maps. Nobody else was used except when forced. I was fully dedicated. This map sucks, lol.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I didn't find this map that bad myself, but I had Thyrsus!Mercedes and Dancer Annette able to put in some real work (Ashe and Gilbert were dead weight even though I'd levelled Ashe, sadly). Not easy, though, certainly. I will say that Dimitri's gambit REALLY helped surviving the assassin-led wave of enemies that come at your starting point around turn 2.

[Eunie]

After rethinking about it, I could have saved one of the healers maybe. 

I let the dreadfighter attack / kill either Annette or Mercedes (Idk who he would prioritize, Mercedes would be definitely a much more bearable loss). The counter damage would be high enough to finish him off with the other mage (assuming the two brawlers in the bottom area still only move, if an unit is in their attack range). 

Losing Annette stinks so much because of her rally. 

Otherwise one of them is sure canon fodder. Only wyvern lord Ashe can save both.

I think this map in Church Route is even worse because  Seteth is underleveled and less tanky than Dimitri. Dimitri is not that bad in a thicket because of sword breaker. Though he is bad against the snipers because they double him. 

 

@eclipse

Maddening

Added to the title. 

 

@Humanoid

You get three 3/4 chest keys in the map, and honestly only the two in the right are worth. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Ingrid Brandl Galatea

[eclipse]

8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Pray tell, how bad was it? Because I'm playing GD now, and I want to be ready.

Dimitri has two distinct advantages over Claude:

1. He's probably got enough lance rank for Swordbreaker.  This means he isn't taking as many hits to the face.
2. He's better at taking hits to the face.

Claude has range, but he'll need to dismount or face OHKOs from the snipers.  The closest thing GD has to a tank doesn't show up immediately, so if your Byleth isn't up to snuff, the first few turns will suck.

The saving grace is that a magical Lorenz with Thyrsus can snipe at the archers with impunity.

37 minutes ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

@eclipse

Maddening

Added to the title.

Maddening is understandable.  Gilbert is not going to be a suitable replacement, since he's literally base.  I wasn't impressed with him on Hard, either.

[Eunie]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Gilbert is not going to be a suitable replacement, since he's literally base. I wasn't impressed with him on Hard, either.

He has a silver axe and the enemies have axe breaker, so he just serves as bad meatshield. In second enemy phase he is dead.

[SpiceMan]

While I do think Maddening Blue Lions chapter 13 is the hardest chapter I have played so far, I didn't hate it. In Fact it's one of my favourite chapters I've ever played in Fire Emblem.

I just really like maps where you have to make use of what little you have, and your units being split up and coming in waves really adds to this feeling. You have to try your hardest to survive and use your brain fully every single turn. Maybe your Dimitri was screwed because mine was average - good(I went C Swords to make him a Mercenary then Paladin for Vantage) and not having the -10 speed penalty really helps,don't know if you did but never make anyone a cavalier. Paladin is fine as the growths are sort of balanced with 10 strength minus 10 speed but cavalier is garbage.

Anyway I got sidetracked but the point is that my Dimitri was able to tank at least 3 enemies per turn, and since Blue Lions is the only house to get their main Healer (Mercedes) on the first wave I was able to keep him alive pretty easily. So although I did end up using all but one of my divine pulses I never had to restart the map.

I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of this map as it was incredibly challenging to perfectly plan out every turn, but I personally really enjoyed it and wouldn't necessarily call it unfair. 

I also think that the order of difficulty for chapter 13 is easiest - Verdant Wind - Azure Moon - Silver Snow - Hardest, as Silver Snow has units problems and no main healer though Dorothea will likely at least have physic.

Edited September 30, 2019 by SpiceMan

[De Geso]

I just played this map the other day and I quite liked it. It's not so hard as long as you play decently quickly and have a mobile Byleth.

[Silly]

I don't think this map is super difficult. The majority of the enemies don't move unless you go near them, so you can take your time going through the map fighting enemies at a pace that your units can handle. I think you only really need to focus on saving the bottom left group (Mercedes + Annette in BL). The upper left group isn't in real danger if they stand still, and the upper right group is never in any danger because they're behind a wall.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Silly

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Well, there go my hopes of a Cyril solo.

Really, I have to wonder how hard it is to make this chapter literally unbeatable, by underleveling Byleth and your in-house units? It definitely sounds possibly impossible on Maddening.

[Eunie]

It would really interest me, if there is an existing solution that Annette and Mercedes can be saved without having a flyer?

Because if Byleth enters an enemy's attack range, an assissine a bit left of the bottom center will start to move towards them automatically and is in their attack range in turn 2. He will murder either. 

Idk if the assassin's AI can be affected if Byleth's spot is changed. I placed her in the thicket down right of her starting point to be closest to the two healing ladies. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Ingrid Brandl Galatea

[Sparknife]

This chapter was really hard in maddening mode, I managed to beat it but lost Mercedes(Priest or Bishop?), Annette(Dancer) and Gilbert. With afterthought, maybe I could save Mercedes and Annette by letting them stand together against the wall, thus only two enemies could attack them at the same time, with some luck maybe they could survive but I'm not confident. I let Dimitri hide in the tree and Byleth(Enlightened One) stand next to him against the wall so also only two units could come in and attack,  then I could kill them one by one. Gilbert's fate was indifferent to me so I just let him die, but I was really happy Ashe(archer or sniper?)  survived by luck. After clearing this block of enemies, the rest is a piece of cake.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Sparknife
clarification

[Tombstone88]

I can't say how bad it is for either Blue Lions or Golden Deer yet, but I tried it for Church route (I'm doing Crimson Flower, but I reloaded a save and tried Chapter 13 of Church route out of curiosity) and it's an absolute nightmare.  Seteth is definitely worse than your typical house leader, Petra joins in by herself, Caspar and Dorothea are your top-left reinforcements (so good luck if you neglected one/both of them), you have less power in general... oh boy, it was not a fun time.  It might be the hardest story battle in the game (haven't seen the final chapters yet).

[daisy jane]

this is my very favourite chapter (beating out the grounder fields) but i couldn't imagine it on maddening to be fair.

I generally when i play have Byleth as a falcon knight with a bow, dismount and then let her go to town.

[Dillthepill]

2 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

It would really interest me, if there is an existing solution that Annette and Mercedes can be saved without having a flyer?

Because if Byleth enters an enemy's attack range, an assissine a bit left of the bottom center will start to move towards them automatically and is in their attack range in turn 2. He will murder either. 

Idk if the assassin's AI can be affected if Byleth's spot is changed. I placed her in the thicket down right of her starting point to be closest to the two healing ladies. 

Pasting my text from another thread:

First off, I used the convoy to give a training lance to Dimitri. Then I parked Byleth in the door for the first few turns. I made careful use of gambits and ranged attacks from Byleth to keep the mobs choked off. Dimitri would either help with his spear or hide in the bushes whining about his life.

Eventually, some mobs will get through because they have pass or I had to move Byleth. Dimitri had decent enough avoidance in the bush and the training lance was enough to kill some with counters that had already been softened with gambits. Also used Dimitri’s new gambit on mobs in the room.

Once Mercedes comes in you have to move Byleth towards her. She stays in the corner and heals. Annette stands there and looks cute. From there it’s a challenge but is straight forward positioning and target prioritizing. Your goal is to keep them off the mages and get to the corner to deal with the brawler that has them pinned in.

There is zero room for error and I had to DP a few times. The most annoying was a 30% gambit they landed on Byleth. That allowed the archer to get to Mercedes.

After saving the mages you work back to team up with Gilbert/Ashe and then towards the NW corner. If you’ve made it this far in the game on Maddening then you’ll be able to clear the rest of the map. I’d never used more than 3 DP’s before and I used 8 on this map.

[Eunie]

11 hours ago, Dillthepill said:

Pasting my text from another thread:

First off, I used the convoy to give a training lance to Dimitri. Then I parked Byleth in the door for the first few turns. I made careful use of gambits and ranged attacks from Byleth to keep the mobs choked off. Dimitri would either help with his spear or hide in the bushes whining about his life.

Eventually, some mobs will get through because they have pass or I had to move Byleth. Dimitri had decent enough avoidance in the bush and the training lance was enough to kill some with counters that had already been softened with gambits. Also used Dimitri’s new gambit on mobs in the room.

Once Mercedes comes in you have to move Byleth towards her. She stays in the corner and heals. Annette stands there and looks cute. From there it’s a challenge but is straight forward positioning and target prioritizing. Your goal is to keep them off the mages and get to the corner to deal with the brawler that has them pinned in.

There is zero room for error and I had to DP a few times. The most annoying was a 30% gambit they landed on Byleth. That allowed the archer to get to Mercedes.

After saving the mages you work back to team up with Gilbert/Ashe and then towards the NW corner. If you’ve made it this far in the game on Maddening then you’ll be able to clear the rest of the map. I’d never used more than 3 DP’s before and I used 8 on this map.

I cannot quite follow it, need screenshots please.

 

When I move either Byleth or Dimitri in the attack range of an enemy (does not matter which spot), this will happen:

This assassin moves automatically towards them and can decide who to kill.

In this case I could hope that one of the two survives because the counterdamage would be enough to finish him off with the spared unit.

Nv, the brawlers started to move as well.

If I could save Annette at least, I would be totally fine with that (Mercedes can be replaced no matter what), but I really need this rally of hers.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

You know, when I started my Maddening playthrough (non-NG+, needed that gold hue, I'm vain) there were certain maps I was dreading. This was one of them. And yet, despite not using most of the units, it was very manageable. Gambits played a big role in the beginning. My fisticuffs Byleth was fast enough to not get doubled, and made good work in forest.

 

Now, I was playing GD, but I was not using Lorenz, Hilda (strength and speed screwed,) Raphael, Marrianne is a healer, and Ignatz was a debuffer (completely useless for this chapter.) So I had Byleth, Claude, Lionie, and Lysithea as viable units. To be clear, everyone helped in someway, even if it was to pull one unit away.

 

I found the map exhilarating and fun, in all honesty. I didn't have access to some of my main units (Petra, Ferdinand, and Annette, specifically) which was really worrisome, but that was part of the puzzle.

 

The worst map for me was Chapter 19. Turn three there are reinforcements which include beasts. I had to find a way to kill Hubert and the Death Knight within those first three turns, because there were casualties otherwise. Likewise the Legend of the Lake paralogue was tricky as Maddening was my first attempt at it. Lots of reinforcements, fog of war, and lots of archers versus my three fliers (as well as Quick Riposte being more broken than the text implies) resulted in my second Game Over.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Xylaugheon Daily

[Dillthepill]

When did you move Byleth into range? If you move one space on the first turn to get into range then all of the mobile baddies will rush you and cluster around the entrance before Mercedes shows up.

There is one brawler who sits in the corner but he doesn’t move unless provoked.

[Eunie]

Oh, I see.  

However then I am really worried about Byleth's survival abilities. 

She really needs the status items... 

 

But I will take that advice and try again. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ingrid Brandl Galatea

[Dillthepill]

What gambit do you have on Byleth? I had the straight line one with 2 charges. That helped a lot  Don’t be shy about using Dimitri’s new one, too. I used all 4 between the two of them.

[Eunie]

4 hours ago, Dillthepill said:

What gambit do you have on Byleth? I had the straight line one with 2 charges. That helped a lot  Don’t be shy about using Dimitri’s new one, too. I used all 4 between the two of them.

Your tip worked!

Byleth used her gambit twice to kill mentioned assassine. 

So I could carry the healers through safely. 

Ashe and Gilbert still died, but who cares...

Many thanks for that hint! 

 

Good thing is that I did not use any status items on Byleth aside of a draco shield. This is a very good result! 

I am honest to myself this chapter is very hard, but managable if the player is acknowledged well with the game mechanics like gambits. It is not unfair but still very VERY hard. Still there was no way to keep Ashe and Gilbert safe. Well, I did not train Ashe, so Gilbert had no back up support. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ingrid Brandl Galatea

[Dillthepill]

👏👏👏👏

[Eunie]

Sigh... I am doing this chapter in Golden Deer route right now, and honestly I am even more screwed right now than I was in Blue Lions. I totally forgot to set equipment and skills in chapter 12. Byleth neither got sword breaker nor she got a thunder sword which would be helpful against enemies in forest tiles. The worst is that Byleth is really BAD because slow. Speed wings cannot fix it. And Claude has no enemy phase, will be ORKO'ed by pretty much everyone. I have no idea how to come through this chapter.

[eclipse]

On 10/12/2019 at 2:51 AM, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Sigh... I am doing this chapter in Golden Deer route right now, and honestly I am even more screwed right now than I was in Blue Lions. I totally forgot to set equipment and skills in chapter 12. Byleth neither got sword breaker nor she got a thunder sword which would be helpful against enemies in forest tiles. The worst is that Byleth is really BAD because slow. Speed wings cannot fix it. And Claude has no enemy phase, will be ORKO'ed by pretty much everyone. I have no idea how to come through this chapter.

Doesn't Blue Lions looks a lot better now?

But on a serious note, you'll have to take advantage of Claude's flying as much as possible.  This chapter threw me a curve ball on Hard. I don't want to think of how bad it is on Maddening.

[Okigen]

I finally got into this chapter on Maddening and oh my it was hard. There is no way I can survive without swordbreaker, so now I am back to replaying chapter 12.