Black eagles chapter 14 - Madenning

[Selzis]

Hi, guys.

I just find these awesome forum,  and would like to borrow your expertise for my maddening playtrhough.

Did anyone beat Crimson flower's route chapter 14 in maddening, and if yes... how?

I just can't figure this map out. There are endless reinforcets, I mean is just crazy how quickly deadly wyverns rider respawn. 

This is soooo hard atm that I was about to quit, but after how far I'm in it would be a shame.

 

My team composition:

Edelgard as Warrior.

Byleth as Hero.

Hubert as Warlock.

Bernadetta as Sniper.

Shamir as Sniper.

Ferdinand as paladin.

Sylvain as Paladin.

Petra as wyvern rider.

Dorothea as dancer.

Caspar as Grappler.

 

Thank you very much.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Selzis

[Mr. C]

This definitely a potential route ending level, depending on what you've done to prep.    The strategy you have to use will depend on what characters and builds you are using.    I still haven't gotten past the level, but I'm pretty sure my next run is going to be successful.  

Several questions/points:

1. Classic or Casual?
2. NG or NG+?
3. Why Edelgard as a Warrior, rather than as a Fortress Knight or her unique classes?  As a Fortress Knight with a shield and throwing axe, Edelgard can stand on a boat bridge and just tank hits as long as you are supporting her between rounds with Physic.
4. Why Byleth as a Hero rather than his unique class? 
5. Caspar as a Grappler is going to be rough, because he can't tank for shit. 
6. Does Dorothea have Meteor yet?
7. Do you have the +1 Spell Range or +2 Spell Range (Lorenz' paralogue) artifacts?
8. How good is your Authority, generally?
9. Do you have the higher tier Sprint battalion? (Gautier Knights, I believe, from Sylvain's paralogue)
10. Do you have Gambit that lets your units take a lethal hit without dying?
11. Do you have Warp with anybody?
12. Are you using the non-damage combat arts, like Reposition?  Reposition on your horse units can be a total game changer.  

Obviously, the key to the battle is to kill the 3 reinforcement guardians + Nader as soon as possible.  Turtle in the lower left until you've killed the first wave from the both the town and the boats.   Then either split your part and push both left and right at the same time, or ball into the fort or ball towards the right while just supporting your rear.    Coming from the town is Melee, Horses, and Archers, while the boats while spew bow riders and wyverns.   The boat reinforcements will stop once you board the boats, while the town waves you will have to worry about Same Turn Reinforcements.  Meteor can land some free kills from afar to shut down reinforcements, while throwing a Meteor at Nader from outside of his range will turn him into aggressive mode, even if the hit itself misses.

 

Warp is super risky due to the extreme enemy density that can build up at the top of the map.  

[Selzis]

1 hour ago, Mr. C said:

This definitely a potential route ending level, depending on what you've done to prep.    The strategy you have to use will depend on what characters and builds you are using.    I still haven't gotten past the level, but I'm pretty sure my next run is going to be successful.  

Several questions/points:

1. Classic or Casual?
2. NG or NG+?
3. Why Edelgard as a Warrior, rather than as a Fortress Knight or her unique classes?  As a Fortress Knight with a shield and throwing axe, Edelgard can stand on a boat bridge and just tank hits as long as you are supporting her between rounds with Physic.
4. Why Byleth as a Hero rather than his unique class? 
5. Caspar as a Grappler is going to be rough, because he can't tank for shit. 
6. Does Dorothea have Meteor yet?
7. Do you have the +1 Spell Range or +2 Spell Range (Lorenz' paralogue) artifacts?
8. How good is your Authority, generally?
9. Do you have the higher tier Sprint battalion? (Gautier Knights, I believe, from Sylvain's paralogue)
10. Do you have Gambit that lets your units take a lethal hit without dying?
11. Do you have Warp with anybody?
12. Are you using the non-damage combat arts, like Reposition?  Reposition on your horse units can be a total game changer.  

Obviously, the key to the battle is to kill the 3 reinforcement guardians + Nader as soon as possible.  Turtle in the lower left until you've killed the first wave from the both the town and the boats.   Then either split your part and push both left and right at the same time, or ball into the fort or ball towards the right while just supporting your rear.    Coming from the town is Melee, Horses, and Archers, while the boats while spew bow riders and wyverns.   The boat reinforcements will stop once you board the boats, while the town waves you will have to worry about Same Turn Reinforcements.  Meteor can land some free kills from afar to shut down reinforcements, while throwing a Meteor at Nader from outside of his range will turn him into aggressive mode, even if the hit itself misses.

1. Classic or Casual? Classic.
2. NG or NG+? NG. First time with black eagles too.
3. Why Edelgard as a Warrior, rather than as a Fortress Knight or her unique classes?  As a Fortress Knight with a shield and throwing axe, Edelgard can stand on a boat bridge and just tank hits as long as you are supporting her between rounds with Physic. Only beacause I wanted to try something different and the mastery skill for warrior looks nice. Are you sure she can tank that good? A double from a wyvern raider is enought to kill my Edel.
4. Why Byleth as a Hero rather than his unique class? Same as above. I wanted to avoid doing the same as I did in previous routes. I won't deny it might be a bad idea.
5. Caspar as a Grappler is going to be rough, because he can't tank for shit. He can't tank shit, but TBH as an evasion tank he is not doing bad consdering non of my units can actually tank. They take so much damage that it is ridiculous.
6. Does Dorothea have Meteor yet? Yes she does.
7. Do you have the +1 Spell Range or +2 Spell Range (Lorenz' paralogue) artifacts? I do, but can I use Tyrsus without gloucester crest? Never tried.
8. How good is your Authority, generally? most of my units are on B or B+.
9. Do you have the higher tier Sprint battalion? (Gautier Knights, I believe, from Sylvain's paralogue) I do. Actually that sounds pretty good for this map. Good advice.
10. Do you have Gambit that lets your units take a lethal hit without dying? No I don't :S
11. Do you have Warp with anybody? Yes, Lindhart can cast it twice per map.
12. Are you using the non-damage combat arts, like Reposition?  Reposition on your horse units can be a total game changer.  I don't know which combat art is that. I play in spanish, and I can't recall anything that translates as that. What does that combat art do?

Warp is super risky due to the extreme enemy density that can build up at the top of the map.  

Thank you in advance for your atention. My biggest problem at the moment is that it takes me too long to kill all the god damn bow knights in the right part of the map, and so I end up swarmed by wyvern raiders... I really hate reinforcements in maddening. It's so freaking upseting.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Selzis
Mistake

[Mr. C]

6 minutes ago, Selzis said:

Thank you in advance for your atention. My biggest problem at the moment is that it takes me too long to all the freaking bow knights in the right part of the map, and so i end up swarmed by wyvern raiders... I really hate reinforcements in maddening. It's so freaking upseting.

General response to some points:

• You only need A crest for a relic weapon, not the specific crest.  Hubert and Dorothea don't have crests so they are SOL, but Hanneman and Lindhart do have crests.
• Reposition takes a unit and moves it behind the unit.  There's a few other similar moves, like Draw Back (both units move back one space).  Really helps your casters archer get in for hits and then fall out of range.
• You definitely need an actual Tank.  Fortress Knight is something like +10 defense relative to Warrior, or something within that range.
• Enlightened One is pretty much the best class in the game, at least out of the non-flying units.  Good mobility, good range options, healing, etc.  Good growths, too.
• Does Caspar have good Axe rank for you?  Probably better to give him throwing axes than to rely on melee range.  
• I think you are probably going to do a City First strategy.  Your archers and Pegasus will be good for killing them as they come in as long as you position defensively.  As long as you can kite/tank, you should be able to Meteor the first (and even second) reinforcement master and then stabilize over the course of 6 or 7 rounds.  

[Selzis]

2 hours ago, Mr. C said:

General response to some points:

• You only need A crest for a relic weapon, not the specific crest.  Hubert and Dorothea don't have crests so they are SOL, but Hanneman and Lindhart do have crests.
• Reposition takes a unit and moves it behind the unit.  There's a few other similar moves, like Draw Back (both units move back one space).  Really helps your casters archer get in for hits and then fall out of range.
• You definitely need an actual Tank.  Fortress Knight is something like +10 defense relative to Warrior, or something within that range.
• Enlightened One is pretty much the best class in the game, at least out of the non-flying units.  Good mobility, good range options, healing, etc.  Good growths, too.
• Does Caspar have good Axe rank for you?  Probably better to give him throwing axes than to rely on melee range.  
• I think you are probably going to do a City First strategy.  Your archers and Pegasus will be good for killing them as they come in as long as you position defensively.  As long as you can kite/tank, you should be able to Meteor the first (and even second) reinforcement master and then stabilize over the course of 6 or 7 rounds.  

Hey, thanks for the advice. Tips number number 9 and 10 helped a lot. Thanks to those I managed to kill all the bow knights, erase all those wyvern f***ers and even dispatch Nader. Unfortunately that wasn't enough, beacause to the city became woodstock with lots of reinforcements surrounding Claude, so in the end I don't think I'm able to do this.

I really feel like this map is designed for you to split your army between the city and the ships, but separating my army in maddening difficulty is a no go since most of my units can't ORKO.

Too bad I wasted my time during 14 long chapters to end the route in hard. Shame on me.

[Mr. C]

19 hours ago, Selzis said:

Hey, thanks for the advice. Tips number number 9 and 10 helped a lot. Thanks to those I managed to kill all the bow knights, erase all those wyvern f***ers and even dispatch Nader. Unfortunately that wasn't enough, beacause to the city became woodstock with lots of reinforcements surrounding Claude, so in the end I don't think I'm able to do this.

I really feel like this map is designed for you to split your army between the city and the ships, but separating my army in maddening difficulty is a no go since most of my units can't ORKO.

Too bad I wasted my time during 14 long chapters to end the route in hard. Shame on me.

I wouldn't feel bad.  The point of difficulty levels is the journey, not the reward.  If you have a save where you can go back to the split, I'd recommend switching and doing Silver Snow instead.  GD and SS both seem like much easier paths, other than the first battle after the time skip being a bit of a spike.

[Selzis]

1 hour ago, Mr. C said:

I wouldn't feel bad.  The point of difficulty levels is the journey, not the reward.  If you have a save where you can go back to the split, I'd recommend switching and doing Silver Snow instead.  GD and SS both seem like much easier paths, other than the first battle after the time skip being a bit of a spike.

I could do that, but I've heard that  SS is very similar to GD, and the final map very similar to BL, and since I already completed those routes I'm not in the mood for a double dip. I think I'll just lower the difficulty level to hard so I can enjoy the rest of the story, and maybe some other time I'll try maddening again, but this time with en easier path, and puting mor thought on character growths, class develeopement and all that jazz. Thanks for your help, man.

[Mr. C]

1 hour ago, Selzis said:

I could do that, but I've heard that  SS is very similar to GD, and the final map very similar to BL, and since I already completed those routes I'm not in the mood for a double dip. I think I'll just lower the difficulty level to hard so I can enjoy the rest of the story, and maybe some other time I'll try maddening again, but this time with en easier path, and puting mor thought on character growths, class develeopement and all that jazz. Thanks for your help, man.

No problem!

The game is a lot harsher than I had expected on Maddening.  Most of Part One is a cakewalk, but Chapter 14 totally seems like you are supposed to have everybody at their Master classes or generally flying.  It is totally out of line with the previous 30 hours of content, which I thinks stands out as some really poor design.

[Selzis]

19 hours ago, Mr. C said:

No problem!

The game is a lot harsher than I had expected on Maddening.  Most of Part One is a cakewalk, but Chapter 14 totally seems like you are supposed to have everybody at their Master classes or generally flying.  It is totally out of line with the previous 30 hours of content, which I thinks stands out as some really poor design.

What a world. After my last message I tried for a last time and then, BOOM! I made it! ... it was crazy difficult but I made it. And it was thanks to your tips.
A gambit to nullify lethal hits and the gautier knights were key to success. For me taking the city was impossible if Nader keeps sending Wyvern raiders, so I rushed to the ships, destroyed all anoying knights  bow knights, then tanked the wyvern raiders little by little with Edelgard, crited Nader into space, killed some trash mobs aaaand... I teleported near Claude and that was everything. IN YOUR FACE, CLAUDE 😁 (OFC I executed him right away. He deserved it so much this time ...).

Anyway seems like my path in maddening continues all thanks to your knowledge. I might end up here whinning about chapter 15, but man, it feels good to end the nightmare that was chapter 14.

Thanks again.

 

 

[Boomhauer007]

On 10/1/2019 at 10:29 AM, Mr. C said:

GD and SS both seem like much easier paths,

I take it you haven't seen endgame/ch 21 silver snow lol. Strong case for hardest maddening map (with SS ch13 being up there too), it is complete stupidity in its difficulty.

[Mr. C]

1 hour ago, Boomhauer007 said:

I take it you haven't seen endgame/ch 21 silver snow lol. Strong case for hardest maddening map (with SS ch13 being up there too), it is complete stupidity in its difficulty.

 It's definitely a candidate, but there's at least 3 chapters in CF Part 3 that are candidates.  14/17/18 are noted as route-enders.  It will be interesting to see where the hierarchies of routes, as all of the final battles have a reputation for their difficulty, even on Hard.    CF and SS were both regarded as super hard already, and not enough people have done both yet to have any kind of consensus.  

Chapter 13 is mostly problematic on only Classic, and/or if you don't see it coming and do some planning around it.  It really should have the opportunity for some pre-battle prep.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by Mr. C