Transgender People in the World Today and a Confession

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

I think this is an interesting subject that none of us are qualified to discuss (unless someone's secretly doing cutting-edge research on this).

Damn. I've revealed too much about my myorally dubious kidnap a tonne of different people and strand them on seperate desert islands experiment.

[Johann]

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's what I assume, though it makes me feel a bit biggoted even suggesting that's how things would be viewed. I think it's because transgender issues have been wrapped up with homosexual issues and that whole sphere for a long time now and I'm not sure that's actually all that beneficial. Obviously there's some shared issues of generally fighting against intolerance, but I can't help think being transgender should be viewed more as a medical issue than a social one. If a gay person is trapped on a desert island the fact that there gay would be irrelevant, as the negative aspects of it comes from society's treatment. But if a transgender person is stuck on a desert then their transgenderness is still going to be an issue as it's a mix up of the brain and mind that still exists independent of what people actually think of it.

The real big overlap between queerness and being transgender is that both have dealt with social stigmas and misconceptions. Homosexuality was considered a mental illness by medical professionals for a very long time, for instance, and that's the sort of discrimination transgender people face today.

Keep in mind that not all transgender people will take hormones or get surgery, etc, and as such, being trans does not necessarily involve anything medical. Part of their struggle stems from gender norms telling them what they're "supposed" to be. This ties into how some trans people feel they need to do whatever they can to "pass" as the gender they identify as, while others do not. Societal pressure of what a man or woman is "supposed" to look like adds an extra dimension to what is often already a complex and sometimes ambiguous personal journey.

[Shoblongoo]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's what I assume, though it makes me feel a bit biggoted even suggesting that's how things would be viewed. I think it's because transgender issues have been wrapped up with homosexual issues and that whole sphere for a long time now and I'm not sure that's actually all that beneficial. Obviously there's some shared issues of generally fighting against intolerance, but I can't help think being transgender should be viewed more as a medical issue than a social one. If a gay person is trapped on a desert island the fact that there gay would be irrelevant, as the negative aspects of it comes from society's treatment. But if a transgender person is stuck on a desert then their transgenderness is still going to be an issue as it's a mix up of the brain and mind that still exists independent of what people actually think of it.

 

On 3/1/2020 at 11:45 PM, Rezzy said:

If it made me a cis woman, I'd take it a heartbeat.  If it just took away my gender dysphoria and I was a cis man, then I probably still would, but I feel like I could relate to somehow magically becoming a woman more than I could to being happy being a man.

So I've been thinking about this a bit lately, and maybe I'm completely off-base here. Or just spinning the wheels on pointless hypotheticals (as I've been known to do on occasion).

...but considering the pace at which medical technology is evolving.
...and considering the scope and breadth of things we can do today that just 100 or 200 years ago would have been considered flat-out impossible.

Imagine a hypothetical future--lets sayyyyy, the year is 2255--where the technology exists that you can change your biological sex as casually as you change your hair color. Say for example that at this time we have the technology to just straight-up upload human consciousness into the bio-tech equivalent of a computer flashdrive, and then download it into a new body.  If the technology is commonplace, quick, cheap, and reversible. And if anyone at anytime can walk into their local clinic, swap a male body for a female body or a female body for a male one, and then swap back the next day if they don't like it. (not gonna lie--I'd consider myself 100% cis male hetero, and if that technology existed I'd probably  wanna try it for a day if for no other reason than the obvious one)

In this hypothetical future where that technology exists and is commonplace, I would imagine the stigma and anxiety around being trans would be--basically non-existent.  

It may simply be the case then that the problem of our day to be surmounted is that the technology to accommodate trans persons + let them live their best lives is still in its infancy. 

And that there will be a natural resolution of trans persons being more accepted and less stigmatized as the options for transitioning become more advanced, comprehensive, and commonplace. 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Shoblongoo

[Karimlan]

9 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Imagine a hypothetical future--lets sayyyyy, the year is 2255--where the technology exists that you can change your biological sex as casually as you change your hair color. Say for example that at this time we have the technology to just straight-up upload human consciousness into the bio-tech equivalent of a computer flashdrive, and then download it into a new body.  If the technology is commonplace, quick, cheap, and reversible. And if anyone at anytime can walk into their local clinic, swap a male body for a female body or a female body for a male one, and then swap back the next day if they don't like it. (not gonna lie--I'd consider myself 100% cis male hetero, and if that technology existed I'd probably  wanna try it for a day if for no other reason than the obvious one)

In this hypothetical future where that technology exists and is commonplace, I would imagine the stigma and anxiety around being trans would be--basically non-existent.  

It may simply be the case then that the problem of our day to be surmounted is that the technology to accommodate trans persons + let them live their best lives is still in its infancy. 

And that there will be a natural resolution of trans persons being more accepted and less stigmatized as the options for transitioning become more advanced, comprehensive, and commonplace. 

Why do I get Stranger in a Strange Land vibes off of this, I wonder...

As far as the stigma and anxiety around being trans goes, you'd also have to look into making the mores that empower (I will not say engender no matter how my head tries to put a cheeky spin on the subject) the stigma and anxiety disappear, which would be a tough thing for some to do.

[Johann]

4 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

It may simply be the case then that the problem of our day to be surmounted is that the technology to accommodate trans persons + let them live their best lives is still in its infancy. 

If transitioning were that convenient, it'd definitely help, but the social stigmas in play are more tied to associating trans-ness to deviancy and an affront to God/natural order/whatever. Ultimately it's about controlling other people's lives, whether through gender norms, or restraint and violence. I'd have to do some googling to pull up sources, but there is plenty of statistical evidence showing that violent crimes against trans people occur in magnitudes far higher than cis people.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Johann said:

The real big overlap between queerness and being transgender is that both have dealt with social stigmas and misconceptions. Homosexuality was considered a mental illness by medical professionals for a very long time, for instance, and that's the sort of discrimination transgender people face today.

Keep in mind that not all transgender people will take hormones or get surgery, etc, and as such, being trans does not necessarily involve anything medical. Part of their struggle stems from gender norms telling them what they're "supposed" to be. This ties into how some trans people feel they need to do whatever they can to "pass" as the gender they identify as, while others do not. Societal pressure of what a man or woman is "supposed" to look like adds an extra dimension to what is often already a complex and sometimes ambiguous personal journey.

Thats not really getting at what I'm saying. We can overcome social stigma as a society, and for homosexuality that's all we need to do, but for transgenders there is an extra layer, almost larger than social stigma and that is the undeniable medical aspect. Transgender people won't all be happy and content if people respect and accept them (though obviously that is very much desired), there will still be the major problem of being right physically. In that regard it seems more similar to the disabled community, or even yes the mentally ill (which people say we shouldn't label transgendered people as due to stigma, but isn't saying exactly that stigmatising the mentally ill? There's nothing wrong with having a mental illness, it's an undesirable condition one must learn to treat in life).

Obviously it's good to work on respect and acceptance which is what the LGBT community strives to do, but that alone isn't enough. The T is very different in nature to the L, G and B. Gay pride makes sense, but if most transgendered people would rather not be transgendered than trans pride is a bit of a contradiction.

Of course I'm far from an expert as Eclipse notes. This is just the view of a layman with no strong emotional attachment to the whole thing.

[Rezzy]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Damn. I've revealed too much about my myorally dubious kidnap a tonne of different people and strand them on seperate desert islands experiment.

Does that mean I can leave now?

9 hours ago, Johann said:

The real big overlap between queerness and being transgender is that both have dealt with social stigmas and misconceptions. Homosexuality was considered a mental illness by medical professionals for a very long time, for instance, and that's the sort of discrimination transgender people face today.

Keep in mind that not all transgender people will take hormones or get surgery, etc, and as such, being trans does not necessarily involve anything medical. Part of their struggle stems from gender norms telling them what they're "supposed" to be. This ties into how some trans people feel they need to do whatever they can to "pass" as the gender they identify as, while others do not. Societal pressure of what a man or woman is "supposed" to look like adds an extra dimension to what is often already a complex and sometimes ambiguous personal journey.

Speaking of hoping to pass, this is me from a couple weeks ago.

8 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

 

So I've been thinking about this a bit lately, and maybe I'm completely off-base here. Or just spinning the wheels on pointless hypotheticals (as I've been known to do on occasion).

...but considering the pace at which medical technology is evolving.
...and considering the scope and breadth of things we can do today that just 100 or 200 years ago would have been considered flat-out impossible.

Imagine a hypothetical future--lets sayyyyy, the year is 2255--where the technology exists that you can change your biological sex as casually as you change your hair color. Say for example that at this time we have the technology to just straight-up upload human consciousness into the bio-tech equivalent of a computer flashdrive, and then download it into a new body.  If the technology is commonplace, quick, cheap, and reversible. And if anyone at anytime can walk into their local clinic, swap a male body for a female body or a female body for a male one, and then swap back the next day if they don't like it. (not gonna lie--I'd consider myself 100% cis male hetero, and if that technology existed I'd probably  wanna try it for a day if for no other reason than the obvious one)

In this hypothetical future where that technology exists and is commonplace, I would imagine the stigma and anxiety around being trans would be--basically non-existent.  

It may simply be the case then that the problem of our day to be surmounted is that the technology to accommodate trans persons + let them live their best lives is still in its infancy. 

And that there will be a natural resolution of trans persons being more accepted and less stigmatized as the options for transitioning become more advanced, comprehensive, and commonplace. 

I actually used to (and still do) dream of something like that being possible.

8 hours ago, Karimlan said:

Why do I get Stranger in a Strange Land vibes off of this, I wonder...

As far as the stigma and anxiety around being trans goes, you'd also have to look into making the mores that empower (I will not say engender no matter how my head tries to put a cheeky spin on the subject) the stigma and anxiety disappear, which would be a tough thing for some to do.

Never be afraid to make a pun.

7 hours ago, Johann said:

If transitioning were that convenient, it'd definitely help, but the social stigmas in play are more tied to associating trans-ness to deviancy and an affront to God/natural order/whatever. Ultimately it's about controlling other people's lives, whether through gender norms, or restraint and violence. I'd have to do some googling to pull up sources, but there is plenty of statistical evidence showing that violent crimes against trans people occur in magnitudes far higher than cis people.

Yes, and an alarmingly high suicide rate

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Thats not really getting at what I'm saying. We can overcome social stigma as a society, and for homosexuality that's all we need to do, but for transgenders there is an extra layer, almost larger than social stigma and that is the undeniable medical aspect. Transgender people won't all be happy and content if people respect and accept them (though obviously that is very much desired), there will still be the major problem of being right physically. In that regard it seems more similar to the disabled community, or even yes the mentally ill (which people say we shouldn't label transgendered people as due to stigma, but isn't saying exactly that stigmatising the mentally ill? There's nothing wrong with having a mental illness, it's an undesirable condition one must learn to treat in life).

Obviously it's good to work on respect and acceptance which is what the LGBT community strives to do, but that alone isn't enough. The T is very different in nature to the L, G and B. Gay pride makes sense, but if most transgendered people would rather not be transgendered than trans pride is a bit of a contradiction.

Of course I'm far from an expert as Eclipse notes. This is just the view of a layman with no strong emotional attachment to the whole thing.

I actually don't mind that gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness.  If it is recognized that it is a legitimate disorder that can be treated, I don't mind, as long as people aren't thinking I'm a bad person because of it.  I have poor eyesight and near sighted, but no one calls you an abomination for wearing glasses.

[Darkmoon6789]

17 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Does that mean I can leave now?

Speaking of hoping to pass, this is me from a couple weeks ago.

I actually used to (and still do) dream of something like that being possible.

Never be afraid to make a pun.

Yes, and an alarmingly high suicide rate

I actually don't mind that gender dysphoria is considered a mental illness.  If it is recognized that it is a legitimate disorder that can be treated, I don't mind, as long as people aren't thinking I'm a bad person because of it.  I have poor eyesight and near sighted, but no one calls you an abomination for wearing glasses.

Looking good there girl, you not only pass but I would say you are quite attractive. Your wife is a lucky woman. 

I do not understand why mental illness has such a stigma, I personally have an anxiety disorder which I take medication for, it is actually extremly common for people to have some mental disorder or another. All trans people I know also have depression on top of everything else. People shouldn't be shamed because of something like this

[Rezzy]

6 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Looking good there girl, you not only pass but I would say you are quite attractive. Your wife is a lucky woman. 

I do not understand why mental illness has such a stigma, I personally have an anxiety disorder which I take medication for, it is actually extremly common for people to have some mental disorder or another. All trans people I know also have depression on top of everything else. People shouldn't be shamed because of something like this

Thank you!  That is very nice to hear.

Yeah, I've suffered from depression and OCD for most of my life.  Started about the same time as my gender dysphoria, actually.

[eclipse]

5 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Yeah, I've suffered from depression and OCD for most of my life.  Started about the same time as my gender dysphoria, actually.

This raises all sorts of questions, but I don't think they're the type that should be asked willy-nilly in public.  Despite everyone having a brain, we seem to know so very little about it!

Also, you look just fine IMO.

[Quiyonce]

 

On 3/9/2020 at 4:44 PM, Jotari said:

 Obviously there's some shared issues of generally fighting against intolerance, but I can't help think being transgender should be viewed more as a medical issue than a social one.If a gay person is trapped on a desert island the fact that there gay would be irrelevant, as the negative aspects of it comes from society's treatment. But if a transgender person is stuck on a desert then their transgenderness is still going to be an issue as it's a mix up of the brain and mind that still exists independent of what people actually think of it.

That's an interesting comparison, and I'm kinda surprised I haven't encountered it before. I think It would honestly depend on the trans person. Not all trans people experience dysphoria the same way and it's possible if there were no people to give them social dysphoria (misgender them/remind them what they're 'supposed' to look like to really be a man/women/etc), some trans folk would be in the same position as any other person being trapped alone on a deserted island. But even then, it's almost irresponsible to separate the medical from the social issues trans people face because the vacuum of a deserted island is not the reality that they live in. Might make an interesting book/movie/play/videogame though.

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

We can overcome social stigma as a society, and for homosexuality that's all we need to do, but for transgenders there is an extra layer, almost larger than social stigma and that is the undeniable medical aspect. Transgender people won't all be happy and content if people respect and accept them (though obviously that is very much desired), there will still be the major problem of being right physically. In that regard it seems more similar to the disabled community, or even yes the mentally ill (which people say we shouldn't label transgendered people as due to stigma, but isn't saying exactly that stigmatising the mentally ill? There's nothing wrong with having a mental illness, it's an undesirable condition one must learn to treat in life).

Actually, transness and dysphoria was considered a mental illness, wrapped under the term Gender Identity Disorder, until fairly recently. So, it's not as if that movement is specifically saying it's bad to be mentally ill, but more they're trying to escape the stigma that already surrounded them as people with 'disorders.' And considering that when homosexuality was considered a mental illness, many had suffered conversion/aversion therapy and lobotomies, it's not hard to believe that some people in the trans community got caught up in that as well and are trying to protect trans people, especially trans youth; who already have higher suicide rates.

[CatManThree]

On 3/9/2020 at 4:37 PM, Rezzy said:

I hope I'm a pleasant enough individual.  I am medically transitioning.

I only brought up the hormones thing because people who are taking testosterone tend to act rather rude towards others and get pissed over little things, at least from my experience with people who are doing so. 

[Rezzy]

8 hours ago, CatManThree said:

I only brought up the hormones thing because people who are taking testosterone tend to act rather rude towards others and get pissed over little things, at least from my experience with people who are doing so. 

I'm MTF, so I'm going in the opposite direction.

[Johann]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:05 PM, Jotari said:

Thats not really getting at what I'm saying. We can overcome social stigma as a society, and for homosexuality that's all we need to do, but for transgenders there is an extra layer, almost larger than social stigma and that is the undeniable medical aspect. Transgender people won't all be happy and content if people respect and accept them (though obviously that is very much desired), there will still be the major problem of being right physically. In that regard it seems more similar to the disabled community, or even yes the mentally ill (which people say we shouldn't label transgendered people as due to stigma, but isn't saying exactly that stigmatising the mentally ill? There's nothing wrong with having a mental illness, it's an undesirable condition one must learn to treat in life).

Obviously it's good to work on respect and acceptance which is what the LGBT community strives to do, but that alone isn't enough. The T is very different in nature to the L, G and B. Gay pride makes sense, but if most transgendered people would rather not be transgendered than trans pride is a bit of a contradiction.

Of course I'm far from an expert as Eclipse notes. This is just the view of a layman with no strong emotional attachment to the whole thing.

Not all trans people experience gender dysphoria though. The social stigma plays the biggest part in the pain caused by dysphoria, along with gender norms/expectations. For many, transitioning and "passing" is mostly about getting people to treat you with the same dignity and basic respect as they would a cis person. Many would feel more comfortable with their bodies if there were no stigma, just as how many people would feel more comfortable with any other "imperfection" with their body if they felt like nobody ever thought anything of it.

"Pride" in the LGBT sense might sound like a bit of a misnomer, when it's really about self-esteem and respect. Gay pride was born as a counter culture to the overwhelming social stigma around being gay, which regularly told them they should be ashamed, they were bad people, and that they should either hide who they are, change, or die.

On 3/10/2020 at 6:30 PM, Rezzy said:

Speaking of hoping to pass, this is me from a couple weeks ago.

Look at you, stylin' over here. For what it's worth, I don't give my impressions on whether a trans person passes or not, because I don't want them to feel like they need my validation. I'm just some random guy. You could look like Josh Brolin and it doesn't change that you're a woman and I'll see you as such.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Johann said:

Not all trans people experience gender dysphoria though. The social stigma plays the biggest part in the pain caused by dysphoria, along with gender norms/expectations. For many, transitioning and "passing" is mostly about getting people to treat you with the same dignity and basic respect as they would a cis person. Many would feel more comfortable with their bodies if there were no stigma, just as how many people would feel more comfortable with any other "imperfection" with their body if they felt like nobody ever thought anything of it.

"Pride" in the LGBT sense might sound like a bit of a misnomer, when it's really about self-esteem and respect. Gay pride was born as a counter culture to the overwhelming social stigma around being gay, which regularly told them they should be ashamed, they were bad people, and that they should either hide who they are, change, or die.

Look at you, stylin' over here. For what it's worth, I don't give my impressions on whether a trans person passes or not, because I don't want them to feel like they need my validation. I'm just some random guy. You could look like Josh Brolin and it doesn't change that you're a woman and I'll see you as such.

I'm not saying basic human decency isn't a matter of consideration of course. Just that the scope here is larger and that shouldn't be ignored by grouping it with a different beast. Everything you've said could also in a way apply to the disabled community who no one would ever consider part of the LGBT because it doesn't involve genitalia.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Johann]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not saying basic human decency isn't a matter of consideration of course. Just that the scope here is larger and that shouldn't be ignored by grouping it with a different beast. Everything you've said could also in a way apply to the disabled community who no one would ever consider part of the LGBT because it doesn't involve genitalia.

Trans issues get grouped with queer issues for two reasons: one, there's overlap, as plenty of trans people may also be queer in some way, and two, both are demonized by the same people (such as the GOP) as they fight for basic human rights. Part of the prejudice against them stems from an absurd idea that some event or influence caused them to be queer and/or trans, that it's a choice or they're mentally ill, and that they can be cured or must be punished.

Being trans doesn't inherently involve genitalia either. A woman can have a penis and still be a woman. 

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Johann said:

Trans issues get grouped with queer issues for two reasons: one, there's overlap, as plenty of trans people may also be queer in some way, and two, both are demonized by the same people (such as the GOP) as they fight for basic human rights. Part of the prejudice against them stems from an absurd idea that some event or influence caused them to be queer and/or trans, that it's a choice or they're mentally ill, and that they can be cured or must be punished.

Being trans doesn't inherently involve genitalia either. A woman can have a penis and still be a woman. 

And the difference there is that the way I see it being transgendered is something that actually can be cured, or at least treated. That's my point. For being gay or bi there's no end goal, it's just merely to exist, but for being trans there is a specific thing to be obtained and it probably will require medical assistance.

But again I'm not trans or in anyway involved in this circle. It's just my passionless view if the thing as an outsider.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Johann]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

And the difference there is that the way I see it being transgendered is something that actually can be cured, or at least treated. That's my point. For being gay or bi there's no end goal, it's just merely to exist, but for being trans there is a specific thing to be obtained and it probably will require medical assistance.

But again I'm not trans or in anyway involved in this circle. It's just my passionless view if the thing as an outsider.

The confusion here is you're mistaking being trans with gender dysphoria. You don't "cure" being trans, it's just an identifier, like saying you're black or white or gay or straight or whatever. Gender dysphoria, which isn't something all trans people have, is the condition that gives people the emotional/psychological pain you seem to be thinking of. What's more, some people manage to overcome their dysphoria without any medical assistance.

It's good to admit you aren't well-versed in the terminology and don't understand all the issues, but it can be very helpful to trans people if you can take the time to learn about them.

[Ingen]

Let me say in advance that what I'm going to say is purely my own understanding as it is right now instead of how things ought to be.

Right now, when I hear "trans person", I think of someone whose goal it is to become the opposite gender so that they could fully integrate into society. To how many trans people does this apply to? To how many does this description prove only partly true, misleading if not flat-out wrong?

[eclipse]

2 hours ago, Ingen said:

Let me say in advance that what I'm going to say is purely my own understanding as it is right now instead of how things ought to be.

Right now, when I hear "trans person", I think of someone whose goal it is to become the opposite gender so that they could fully integrate into society. To how many trans people does this apply to? To how many does this description prove only partly true, misleading if not flat-out wrong?

Please reread this entire topic, and tell me what your conclusion is, based on what you read.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 3/17/2020 at 9:00 PM, Ingen said:

Let me say in advance that what I'm going to say is purely my own understanding as it is right now instead of how things ought to be.

Right now, when I hear "trans person", I think of someone whose goal it is to become the opposite gender so that they could fully integrate into society. To how many trans people does this apply to? To how many does this description prove only partly true, misleading if not flat-out wrong?

For my part, I would say that's the most common cultural image of what it means to be transgender. I don't think that's a wrong "first impression" to have, so to speak. In my head, I like to categorize this sort of person, especially if they've had (or wish for) gender-affirming surgery, as "transsexual", a subtype of "transgender". But I recognize that the term "transsexual" carries a lot of baggage, so I never want to impose ot on others.

"Transgender", though, is often considered an umbrella term, that can also include people who identify outside the binary, or express themselves in gender-nonconforming ways. The exact question of who is and isn't "trans" runs into issues of gatekeeping, inclusivity, and concerns over bad-faith actors. My own belief is, it should be treated as much as possible as an "opt-in" self-identifier, while also recognizing that pretty much everyone (cis and trans) experiences gender in a unique way, and that generalizations ought to be kept to a minimum.

For my own experience, I was born male-typical (physically speaking), but I've never really felt at home with other guys. I've often wished to engage in more traditionally-feminine modes of self-expression, but I'm not confident that I'd totally be happy living "as a woman", so to speak. I hate the idea that I must be "one or the other", in terms of gender, even as I recognize it's totally possible to be a feminine man (or masculine woman). I'm still in the process of figuring myself out, but I think that I would consider myself non-binary trans.

I hope this helps, if only a little bit!

[Othin]

Apparently I miss a lot from sticking to the Heroes board, lol.

Rezzy mentioned being trans in the Brammimond thread, so I decided to do the same. So, anyone who'd taken note of stuff like me changing my gender marker here, there's your answer!

On 3/21/2020 at 2:51 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

"Transgender", though, is often considered an umbrella term, that can also include people who identify outside the binary, or express themselves in gender-nonconforming ways. The exact question of who is and isn't "trans" runs into issues of gatekeeping, inclusivity, and concerns over bad-faith actors. My own belief is, it should be treated as much as possible as an "opt-in" self-identifier, while also recognizing that pretty much everyone (cis and trans) experiences gender in a unique way, and that generalizations ought to be kept to a minimum.

For my own experience, I was born male-typical (physically speaking), but I've never really felt at home with other guys. I've often wished to engage in more traditionally-feminine modes of self-expression, but I'm not confident that I'd totally be happy living "as a woman", so to speak. I hate the idea that I must be "one or the other", in terms of gender, even as I recognize it's totally possible to be a feminine man (or masculine woman). I'm still in the process of figuring myself out, but I think that I would consider myself non-binary trans.

I hope this helps, if only a little bit!

These are some very good ways of putting things. Personally, while I tend to describe myself as transfeminine and sometimes simplify my presentation to female (particularly online, I'm not very out offline), I find it more accurate to describe myself as some flavor of nonbinary between trans female and gender neutral. Like, on a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 is completely male, 5 is completely female, and 3 is neutral, I'm about a 4. Which isn't a type of scale that fits everyone's gender experiences either, but it's one I find quite well suited to myself.

Figuring things out can be a lengthy and complicated process, but it sounds like you've made some important discoveries, and I hope you're able to find more chances to explore what they mean for you!

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Apparently I miss a lot from sticking to the Heroes board, lol.

Rezzy mentioned being trans in the Brammimond thread, so I decided to do the same. So, anyone who'd taken note of stuff like me changing my gender marker here, there's your answer!

Yeah, I don't really bring it up outside of the Serious Discussion section or when it's relevant, so a lot of people might not be aware.  People here have been pretty accepting.  I thought I noticed you change your gender a while back.

 

[eclipse]

Due to, uh, dynamics that have nothing to do with this topic, I don't really pay attention to that gender thing, so you'll have to tell me if you want to be addressed with a particular pronoun.

[Lewyn]

Commend the bravery of some people here to come out as trans.  I imagine in person with friends/family it is especially tough.  The pushback against trans seems to have been on a few sticking points.

The bathroom issue, the sports issue, then pushback by gay community and straight on the assumption that trans people are changing gender cause they don't want to come out as gay.  There is also the argument about the surgery being deemed as cosmetic unnecessary vs medical necessity (essentially should insurance cover it).  Then there is should treatments be allowed pre puberty.  

The thing about is it a mental disorder, is it genetic, is it environmental?  I think like homosexuality, that shouldn't have any impact on how the group is treated.  Is it a choice?  That is the question and the answer seems to obviously be no.