Most irritating/boring maps in Fire Emblem?

[Fabulously Olivier]

5 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

SoV is my second favorite FE, and I absolutely hate Fates. You will not convince me that Fates is a good game EVER!

I won't convince you that Fates is a good game, because I also don't think it's a good game.

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

SoV is my second favorite FE, and I absolutely hate Fates. You will not convince me that Fates is a good game EVER!

I absolutely loved SoV despite some map similarities and it's definitely in my top 5. Not played Fates yet though so I'm not sure what the gameplay and maps are like yet.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Edegard1902 said:

I absolutely loved SoV despite some map similarities and it's definitely in my top 5. Not played Fates yet though so I'm not sure what the gameplay and maps are like yet.

To answer your question about Rev, if you're a big fan and a completionist... eh, Revelation's 20 bucks, not exactly a huge gamble with your money as far as games go. And hey, you'll get 3 more save slots and some extra bonus items even if you don't like it.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Alastor15243

[SubwayBossEmmett]

25 minutes ago, Edegard1902 said:

@SubwayBossEmmett Would Revelations be worth a playthrough at least once for the sake of making my own mind up on it? I know i'll probably find it irritating but I kind of want to play every game in the franchise because every game i've played so far has been phenomenal.

If you can emulate it go for it, but it’s not worth spending money. Fates at it’s core is just a lot of fun for gimmicky sets and you could get away with doing stuff like that. My highlight of playing Rev was probably doing some CQ Paralogues I hadn’t done before.

Also if you care about Fates characters at all Rev exclusive supports are generally pretty good too

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

To answer your question about Rev, if you're a big fan and a completionist... eh, Revelation's 20 bucks, not exactly a huge gamble with your money as far as games go. And hey, you'll get 3 more save slots and some extra bonus items even if you don't like it.

From what I know so far I'm really going to like Birthright and Conquest. I've heard they both have really good and really bad characters and at least Owain and Severa (two of my favorite FE characters are in the game). I've heard Conquest has really good map designs so it was a game i'd play either way and Birthright when played first will hopefully still be fun. Revelations isn't expensive so I thought it'd be worth playing at least once since it's quite cheap.

[Shiki]

@Alastor15243 You just critized Revelation's map design but somehow name Conquest's Chapter 20 as one of your favorites.
Guess die-hard Fates fans are like that game's plot I guess.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Agreed. Doesn't help that Ephraim is a moron who didn't really equip himself and his troops well, considering that he and Kyle have Steel Lances, which are too heavy and inaccurate.

Actually I don't mind the Steel Lances here. Iron weapons would have been arguably worse.
Aside from the Soldiers and some Shamans Forde or Kyle don't double the enemies anyway and they wouldn't one-round with them either. With the Steel Lances they can 2HKO most enemies sans Fighters and maybe some Cavaliers if not scoring ORKO against some slower Soldiers.
Sure, they aren't accurate and Mercs will double the cavaliers but as long as it's not FE6 levels of unreliable I rather take that than extending my time on this chapter killing enemies.

The bigger problem imo is you only get 1 Javelin and no healer in a map where mages are abundant the closer you get to the throne.

[Alastor15243]

6 minutes ago, Shiki said:

@Alastor15243 You just critized Revelation's map design but somehow name Conquest's Chapter 20 as one of your favorites.
Guess die-hard Fates fans are like that game's plot I guess.

The difference between chapter 20 Conquest and the stuff in Revelation is that 20 Conquest actually makes the fight harder in an interesting way, rather than easier in an annoying way. You are explicitly told how the wind works, turning it into a test of your ability to improvise movements and formations with a turn of prep time to fight the enemies without the wind sending you into compromising positions. I absolutely adore the challenge, even though when I first did it blind ironman that one map took me two days and nearly made me tear my hair out from the pants-shitting fear I experienced during that (eventually 100% successful) effort to beat it without casualties. You'll notice that Revelation has the exact same map, but lacking Conquest's enemy AI or even any remotely interesting enemies whatsoever, it's just a massively annoying waste of time in a map that's in no real danger of killing you. The maps could not be more different in design philosophy, that's how much of a difference enemy formation and designer intent make.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Alastor15243

[MagicCanonBalls]

-FE4, this is my least favorite FE game mostly because of the maps.

-FE12, Recruiting Astram is really frustrating. Also the game likes to give you reinforcement from behind. 

-Revelation, the snow map and probably all the maps after Valla. I also don't like the rainbow sage's maps in all three routes because it takes too long to transport one by one. 

-Almost all of Celica's maps. The desert, swamp and the boat. As for Alm's, that Nuibaba's map where you have to go all the way to behind just to enter the castle/fort. Heroes' version of SoV's maps are much better and less annoying.

 

12 minutes ago, Edegard1902 said:

From what I know so far I'm really going to like Birthright and Conquest. I've heard they both have really good and really bad characters and at least Owain and Severa (two of my favorite FE characters are in the game). I've heard Conquest has really good map designs so it was a game i'd play either way and Birthright when played first will hopefully still be fun. Revelations isn't expensive so I thought it'd be worth playing at least once since it's quite cheap.

You certainly can play through revelation just for completion sake, I did it too. And honestly I feel like I could have just watch the walkthrough on youtube. Birthright and Conquest are much better. 

[Shrimpica]

12 minutes ago, Shiki said:

You just critized Revelation's map design but somehow name Conquest's Chapter 20 as one of your favorites.

There's nothing wrong with Conquest chapter 20.

12 minutes ago, Shiki said:

Guess die-hard Fates fans are like that game's plot I guess.

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Hey, look, it's 'bash Fates fans' hour again. I thought we stopped that shit since FE16 release

[Shiki]

51 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

You are explicitly told how the wind works, turning it into a test of your ability to improvise movements and formations with a turn of prep time to fight the enemies without the wind sending you into compromising positions.

It's still a map gimmick though and especialy the ones that tinker with positioning/mobility tend to be never good in Fire Emblem, considering they usually drag maps out. imo, this one is not an exception to this rule.
If you are masochistic enough to like it more power to you but count me out. I generally dislike any of the DV gimmicks in this game.
Though I guess it helps to LTC this chapter. That's more I can say about Revelations.

51 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

You'll notice that Revelation has the exact same map, but lacking Conquest's enemy AI or even any remotely interesting enemies whatsoever, it's just a massively annoying waste of time in a map that's in no real danger of killing you. The maps could not be more different in design philosophy, that's how much of a difference enemy formation and designer intent make.

This comparision doesn't make much sense because you are comparing an endgame chapter with an earlygame one (Ch.9 to be exact). If Revelations introduced the very same gimmick this early on it would have been a disaster with the butchered unit roster at that point.
If anything this shows Fates' map design has no choice but to rely on those map gimmicks to compensate its lacklustre maps. This is especially mind-boggling when Conquest has probably some of the strongest earlygame maps.

42 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

There's nothing wrong with Conquest chapter 20. 

Hey, look, it's 'bash Fates fans' hour again. I thought we stopped that shit since FE16 release

Last time I checked people haven't shown nearly as much contempt to 3H compared to Fates' "offerings".
You are entitled to like what you want of course but Fates is just not good in my books.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Shiki

[Maddie]

Most of Fire Emblem The Binding Blade maps after Chapter 13 become really tedious.

[Shrimpica]

6 minutes ago, Shiki said:

You are entitled to like what you want of course but Fates is just not good in my books.

Nobody said you should like x/y/z. But don't go and bash everyone who likes the game.

 

7 minutes ago, Shiki said:

It's still a map gimmick though and especialy the ones that tinker with positioning/mobility tend to be never good in Fire Emblem, considering they usually drag maps out.

Except the Wind can help you finish chapters faster if you plan well.

[Lightcosmo]

Hmmm, alot of FE9's maps. They just arent memorable at all. All straight forward maps.

[DragonFlames]

Practically everything in Fates Conquest past Chapter 17 for the irritating category. Reason? It's where I realized that I didn't have fun with the game. At all. And nearly every map was frustrating in one way or another.
As a runner-up, we have Battle Before Dawn in FE7, because of the overreliance on RNG to keep Jaffa Cake and thus Zephiel alive.
Of course, there's also the infamous "protect Elincia while she walks headfirst into an army of Archers" map from Radiant Dawn.
And the less said about Three Houses' Silver Snow Finale, the better.

And for the boring category, I nominate the entirety of Fates Revelation. 
Though most of Lyn Mode of FE7 is also a close contender for that, with the only exception being Chapter 7x that I kind of liked.

[eclipse]

"Walking away for a while" is a valid response to an argument.  I don't like handing out massive warnings.

[SubwayBossEmmett]

43 minutes ago, eclipse said:

"Walking away for a while" is a valid response to an argument.  I don't like handing out massive warnings.

As a mod who is worse? Fates fans or Fates bashers?

I like to think I bash Fates as much as a praise it overall. 

[eclipse]

Just now, SubwayBossEmmett said:

As a mod who is worse? Fates fans or Fates bashers?

I like to think I bash Fates as much as a praise it overall. 

Whoever is the most unreasonable about it.  Since Fates is a video game, liking/disliking it isn't going to alter the course of history.

[Fabulously Olivier]

47 minutes ago, SubwayBossEmmett said:

As a mod who is worse? Fates fans or Fates bashers?

I like to think I bash Fates as much as a praise it overall. 

 

46 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Whoever is the most unreasonable about it.  Since Fates is a video game, liking/disliking it isn't going to alter the course of history.

I think it is important to remember that Fire Emblem has a pretty unique position among Nintendo IP. It isn't Pokemon. It doesn't rest on its laurels and give us the same game with the same story every few years with a new setting.

 

Each Fire Emblem, for the most part, is wildly mechanically different from the rest, and that's why our little community is such a hotbed of debate in the first place. One might consider that a good thing, as long as we try to be somewhat civil about it.

 

But fuck Fates, amirite? 😋

Edited October 9, 2019 by Etheus

[SubwayBossEmmett]

12 minutes ago, Etheus said:

 

I think it is important to remember that Fire Emblem has a pretty unique position among Nintendo IP. It isn't Pokemon. It doesn't rest on its laurels and give us the same game with the same story every few years with a new setting.

 

Each Fire Emblem, for the most part, is wildly mechanically different from the rest, and that's why our little community is such a hotbed of debate in the first place. One might consider that a good thing, as long as we try to be somewhat civil about it.

 

But fuck Fates, amirite? 😋

Hey just remember!

fire emblem was never good 

[Eltosian Kadath]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

You are explicitly told how the wind works, turning it into a test of your ability to improvise movements and formations with a turn of prep time to fight the enemies without the wind sending you into compromising positions.

The brief explanation of how the wind works isn't really sufficient to plan around it. The game text reads: At the end of enemy phase, any of your units caught in the wind's path will be moved five spaces. If there is nowhere to stand, they will be moved to the nearest safe space.

It doesn't explain the priority of units moved, so when multiple units jump a gap which takes the first space? Is there some fixed order, is the order determined by the direction of the wind, or an order determined by position? What about when a unit would reach the same space through basic wind movements as one that had to take the nearest safe space, would that change the priority? What is the game calling the nearest safe space? can a unit move in a direction either perpendicular or counter to the wind if there is nowhere to stand? if so which of the multiple nearest spaces takes priority? What happens if there is no safe space in that direction? Is there a limit on how far this can push you? If so what is that limit?

All of those questions you have to find out for yourself, and any of them can lead to a death or a reset if you are wrong. If the winds were properly explained they would be far less irritating and hated.

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The brief explanation of how the wind works isn't really sufficient to plan around it. The game text reads: At the end of enemy phase, any of your units caught in the wind's path will be moved five spaces. If there is nowhere to stand, they will be moved to the nearest safe space.

It doesn't explain the priority of units moved, so when multiple units jump a gap which takes the first space? Is there some fixed order, is the order determined by the direction of the wind, or an order determined by position? What about when a unit would reach the same space through basic wind movements as one that had to take the nearest safe space, would that change the priority? What is the game calling the nearest safe space? can a unit move in a direction either perpendicular or counter to the wind if there is nowhere to stand? if so which of the multiple nearest spaces takes priority? What happens if there is no safe space in that direction? Is there a limit on how far this can push you? If so what is that limit?

All of those questions you have to find out for yourself, and any of them can lead to a death or a reset if you are wrong. If the winds were properly explained they would be far less irritating and hated.

They explained everything they could explain concisely without forcing a wall of text down the player's throat. Everything else can either be experimented with when you have the opening, or just not messed around with in general. I never needed to know the answer to any of those questions to plan any of my strategies for that level, and if they had explained all of that, purely through text, I would have felt as information-overloaded and confused as I did when I encountered my first demonic beast (that was worse though, because the tutorial insisted on making it all in-character vaguery from Sothis herself rather than the game explaining the actual literal numeric rules).

[Eltosian Kadath]

7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

They explained everything they could explain concisely without forcing a wall of text down the player's throat.

They could have easily kept the blurb they had, with an extra note in parenthesis that a more detailed explanation has been added to the guide menu, for those that wanted/needed to know.

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

They could have easily kept the blurb they had, with an extra note in parenthesis that a more detailed explanation has been added to the guide menu, for those that wanted/needed to know.

Do you have a personal anecdote of this lack of information screwing you over?

[Eltosian Kadath]

16 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Do you have a personal anecdote of this lack of information screwing you over?

Kinda, but after a late turn reset due to Elise being pushed to a space I wasn't expecting, I stopped trusting the winds. If the answer to one of these questions was important I wouldn't risk it, and waste turns waiting for the winds and making sure units were in the right positions so that I wouldn't have to know the answer, which ballooned the turn counts to around the 60-80 range with a significant amount of that time taken waiting.

 

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Eltosian Kadath said:

Kinda, but after a late turn reset due to Elise being pushed to a space I wasn't expecting, I stopped trusting the winds. If the answer to one of these questions was important I wouldn't risk it, and waste turns waiting for the winds and making sure units were in the right positions so that I wouldn't have to know the answer, which ballooned the turn counts to around the 60-80 range with a significant amount of that time taken waiting.

 

I have a similar strategy of working with what I know to be true and not gambling with stuff I don't understand. Generally I hate when games throw potentially lethal things at me I don't understand, but generally only when it's one of the only ways to go forward and it turns out to be way less dangerous than I thought it was. In other senses... while I generally feel in nearly all cases more information is better, I'm not sure if I'd appreciate something as in-depth to the code as, say, an explicit explanation of the square priority order for which space around a staff user a unit appears on when they use rescue.