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New Heroes Approach: Zofia's Call (Oct. 21 ~)


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11 minutes ago, XRay said:

For healers, I just go with Heavenly Light or Miracle if I do not need the scoring. Balms are nice, but I feel a bit paranoid about Panic.

How certain are we about Python demoting? I think every New Heroes Focus besides Brave Echoes and Three Houses this year demoted someone, so I feel pretty confident that Python might demote, although they might pull a Three Houses and demote no one.

In addition to Three Houses and Brave Echoes, the Kitsune/Wolfkin and Darkness Within banners also did not have any demotes. So that's four out of the ten previous New Heroes this year - Reyson, Thea, Mordecai, Brady, Mercedes, and Norne demoted from the other six.

I do think all of the non-demote ones had extenuating circumstances, though - factors specific to the entire concept behind the banners. This banner has no reason to be a non-demote one, and Python's skillset makes no sense for a 5* exclusive. Have we ever had a 5* exclusive with zero new skills?

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Pretty underwhelming banner to me, even the highest value fodder isn't worth trying for beyond 1 orb per circle (Bold Fighter and Witchy+Dazzling, vs the crazy stuff like DC+Special Fighter or Lull Atk/Spd from the Nagi banner).
Nice to see more 3-4* injects, not that I've even gotten a Bantu yet.
I don't expect to get Python for a year if he does drop, judging from my 1 Reyson record in 120+ greens since demotion.

Hopefully it is Python that demotes and not Silque, as I shudder to think of all the people getting their hands on Witchy Wand for AR.

Edited by Azuni
mixed up names
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I'm trying to reverse engineer Valber's stats, but I don't see a match for the Sword Fighter he's fighting anywhere. Closest thing I can find is the one in Book 3 10-1, but I don't see any version of it with 39 max HP. I don't see any other story/paralogue maps with a Sword Fighter with an Armorslayer/Armorsmasher and a Special. Anyone found any other candidates?

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36 minutes ago, Etheus said:

That hasn't stopped them from making even more baffling decisions in the past. I mean, someone like Gray had even less worth defining them as a 5 star exclusive.

  1. Because Gray has Sword Valor. Sword Valor is reasonably good, and he was the first to have it.
  2. Because Mathilda was on the same banner and is even less impressive. Units are not demoted based on their absolute unimpressiveness, but based on their relative unimpressiveness compared to the other units on their banner.

 

49 minutes ago, XRay said:

How certain are we about Python demoting? I think every New Heroes Focus besides Brave Echoes and Three Houses this year demoted someone, so I feel pretty confident that Python might demote, although they might pull a Three Houses and demote no one.

He has literally zero new skills and zero skills with high demand and low supply. Short Bow, Steady Blow, and B Tomebreaker are all low demand (with Steady Blow and B Tomebreaker being utterly ancient at this point), and Moonbow is high supply.

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I think the best explanation for units like Gray is that standards for what's okay to demote have evolved over time. In the past, all units had less impressive skill sets.

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There is only one reason Python has B Tomebreaker Tome and that is because it is the only breaker skill not in the regular pool. 

That and Short Bow+, which they want there as well, make it pretty obvious that he's planned to drop. 

 

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1 hour ago, Othin said:

In addition to Three Houses and Brave Echoes, the Kitsune/Wolfkin and Darkness Within banners also did not have any demotes. So that's four out of the ten previous New Heroes this year - Reyson, Thea, Mordecai, Brady, Mercedes, and Norne demoted from the other six.

I do think all of the non-demote ones had extenuating circumstances, though - factors specific to the entire concept behind the banners. This banner has no reason to be a non-demote one, and Python's skillset makes no sense for a 5* exclusive. Have we ever had a 5* exclusive with zero new skills?

32 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

He has literally zero new skills and zero skills with high demand and low supply. Short Bow, Steady Blow, and B Tomebreaker are all low demand (with Steady Blow and B Tomebreaker being utterly ancient at this point), and Moonbow is high supply.

Hmm... I can see Darkness Within and Brave Echoes not demoting due to tradition, but Kitsune and Wolfskin does not really have a good reason to not demote Kaden in my opinion outside of being a strong buffer, and we already have a strong buffer a la M!Corrin. Selkie's kit is also crap, but they gave her 5 skills.

Python does have a very unimpressive skill set though.

Edited by XRay
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10 minutes ago, XRay said:

Hmm... I can see Darkness Within and Brave Echoes not demoting due to tradition, but Kitsune and Wolfskin does not really have a good reason to not demote Kaden in my opinion outside of being a strong buffer, and we already have a strong buffer a la M!Corrin. Selkie's kit is also crap, but they gave her 5 skills.

Python does have a very unimpressive skill set though.

Kitsune and Wolfkin is certainly the strangest, but I think it makes sense if you think of it as basically an additional Farfetched Heroes banner. Which is also what makes Panne fit in, even though she doesn't match the name. It's a banner for the beasts that got a ton of votes on CYL2 but couldn't show up earlier due to beasts not being in the game yet: all five of them were the five highest-scoring units on CYL2 not yet in the game at the time the banner launched. Also, like the Three Houses banner, the units were part of a route-based set, making it make sense for them to be handled symmetrically - it'd be odd for just one house leader or beast type representative to be a demote while the rest are 5* exclusive.

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3 hours ago, XRay said:

Hmm... I can see Darkness Within and Brave Echoes not demoting due to tradition, but Kitsune and Wolfskin does not really have a good reason to not demote Kaden in my opinion outside of being a strong buffer, and we already have a strong buffer a la M!Corrin. Selkie's kit is also crap, but they gave her 5 skills. 

Python does have a very unimpressive skill set though.

>Alts do not demote. I'm starting to think it's not a rule of "it's up to us which banners have a demote", rather you have banners such as Fallen Heroes where every character is an alt, but then you also have Adrift, where every unit was an alt except Mikoto, but as she is she doesn't have her base form in the game yet. Of course you also have Brave/Farfetched Heroes as well, where highly desired units are released...

>I'm not sure that they see M!Corrin as a strong buffer, seeing as his buffs are limited to only one unit who he has at least a C support with. And not everyone switches who he supports every map (mine still has his S support with Chrom).
Besides, just because there's already better buffers in the 4* pool is a weak reason to demote or not demote someone. We all thought Ares wasn't gonna demote, and he's still one of the best users of a Vantage kit without being a Bladetome.

>IMO the only "crap" part of Selkie's kit is Atk/Spd bond. Despite her base 19 Def, she gets a maximum +8 combat buff to it if her Res is higher than the foes, their Atk is lowered by 7 if they're next to someone, and then Res Wave just garantees the effect of Foxkit Fang. A Bond skill simply has no place on her kit when she's probably never gonna be next to anyone anyway, she'd rather have Fury or maybe even Fortress Def/Res.

>Meanwhile, Python has one of the least used Blows in the game, a kind of iffy bow, and... actually the first Breaker skill on a new unit in a very long while. The last new unit to have a Breaker was NY!Takumi with Bowbreaker, and before him Oscar with Lancebreaker (which before him was locked to Arthur, who only has LB3 at 5*, and Narcian, who was a limited unit).

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2 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

>IMO the only "crap" part of Selkie's kit is Atk/Spd bond. Despite her base 19 Def, she gets a maximum +8 combat buff to it if her Res is higher than the foes, their Atk is lowered by 7 if they're next to someone, and then Res Wave just garantees the effect of Foxkit Fang. A Bond skill simply has no place on her kit when she's probably never gonna be next to anyone anyway, she'd rather have Fury or maybe even Fortress Def/Res.

Selkie is a Player Phase unit, so she needs a kit rehaul.

Her Weapon is fine as is.
She needs Reposition.
Iceberg needs to be switched out for Moonbow or Ruptured Sky. She does not have a Slaying Weapon so she cannot get Iceberg to activate on her first round of combat, and she cannot use Heavy Blade due to crappy Atk.
As you said, Bond is crap.
Chill Atk is good on a support unit, not combat unit. Selkie needs Desperation too since her bulk is rather low.
Not a fan of Wave skills, and if you are using Selkie, you are probably using Herons too, so Hone Beast and Res Tactics will supply the buffs needed.

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2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Selkie is a Player Phase unit, so she needs a kit rehaul.

Her Weapon is fine as is.
She needs Reposition.
Iceberg needs to be switched out for Moonbow or Ruptured Sky. She does not have a Slaying Weapon so she cannot get Iceberg to activate on her first round of combat, and she cannot use Heavy Blade due to crappy Atk.
As you said, Bond is crap.
Chill Atk is good on a support unit, not combat unit. Selkie needs Desperation too since her bulk is rather low.
Not a fan of Wave skills, and if you are using Selkie, you are probably using Herons too, so Hone Beast and Res Tactics will supply the buffs needed.

I wouldn't say it's fair to call her base kit crap though, because there was clearly some thought behind fixing the issue of her horrid Defense (she's actually bulkier than she looks once all the stars that are her skills are aligned). If the devs were really following what the player base will do to their units, since the changes you listed are pretty boring despite the effectiveness, then every unit would have the same two or three skillsets and we'd get maybe one new skill every New Hero banner.
...also if she did pack Desperation, I'd still want to hold onto Iceberg. She can't use any form of special charge speedup, so why would I want to pack Moonbow if she's not gonna be able to activate until one battle later anyway?

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19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Iceberg needs to be switched out for Moonbow or Ruptured Sky.

Beasts and dragons cannot inherit Ruptured Sky. The skill is kind of made to be prejudice against them even though other specials might be stronger against beasts and dragons depending on the unit.

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Chill Atk is good on a support unit, not combat unit. Selkie needs Desperation too since her bulk is rather low.

Lull Atk/Spd and Lull Atk/Def were introduced after her, but she'd run them well too. Either one would effectively give her Def/Res+3 during combat which bumps her up from 19/38 defenses with Foxkit Fang's Res+3 to 22/41 in combat. Defense is still not that great, but Lulls negate the stats they target, so she won't have to deal with attack field buffs and when transformed and she initiates, she gets another effective Def/Res+4 through beast cavalry's transformation effect of inflicting Atk/Def-4 on foe and follow-up negation when they initiate. In this case, she'd have 26/45 defenses. If it's against a melee unit and she has 16 more resistance than her foe, then she'd have 34/53 defenses when transformed and she initiates or 30/49 otherwise. Because she wants to pass as many resistance checks as possible, Fortress Def/Res would be good on her and paired with Lull Atk/X she could become deceptively bulky. The issue is the Atk-2 from Fortress Def/Res where yes, she can make up the attack with Foxkit Fang against melee units, Lull Atk/Def, attack buffs, and whatever, but it is still Atk-2 and on a unit with 29 base neutral attack who has to deal with positioning if she's not on a beast-dragon team to maintain a 16 Mt weapon. Otherwise, Fury would be something she wants.

Edited by Kaden
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19 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I wouldn't say it's fair to call her base kit crap though, because there was clearly some thought behind fixing the issue of her horrid Defense (she's actually bulkier than she looks once all the stars that are her skills are aligned). If the devs were really following what the player base will do to their units, since the changes you listed are pretty boring despite the effectiveness, then every unit would have the same two or three skillsets and we'd get maybe one new skill every New Hero banner.
...also if she did pack Desperation, I'd still want to hold onto Iceberg. She can't use any form of special charge speedup, so why would I want to pack Moonbow if she's not gonna be able to activate until one battle later anyway?

Moonbow lets her activate a Special during her first round of combat since Desperation is not online yet, unless you step on a Bolt Trap early and want to bring it online sooner, in which case Moonbow would be ready during her second round of combat. You generally want to activate your Specials as soon and as often as you can, since earlier fights are generally a little tougher due to more buffs going around and you really want reduce the amount of enemies on the board and not leave any low HP enemies lying around.

At the very least, I would prefer it if they swap out the Special, A, and B skills. Iceberg is in high supply, so players can Iceberg if they really want it. Atk/Spd Bond honestly is not that great unless you are a Spd tank, and Spd tanks are not really that viable right now unless you are going for a super tank. Sabotage Atk is not really that desirable compared to Sabotage Def or Sabotage Res on a nuke, so at least put that on a tank or something.

If they want me to stick with Wave skills, then they should at least hurry up the release of Odd Res Wave, but I think it is fine on her since I they will get around to releasing the skill eventually, I hope.

17 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Beasts and dragons cannot inherit Ruptured Sky. The skill is kind of made to be prejudice against them even though other specials might be stronger against beasts and dragons depending on the unit.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

17 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Lull Atk/Spd and Lull Atk/Def were introduced after her, but she'd run them well too. Either one would effectively give her Def/Res+3 during combat which bumps her up from 19/38 defenses with Foxkit Fang's Res+3 to 22/41. Defense is still not that great, but Lulls negate the stats they target, so she won't have to deal with attack field buffs and when transformed and she initiates, she gets another effective Def/Res+4 through beast cavalry's transformation effect of inflicting Atk/Def-4 on foe and follow-up negation when they initiate. If this case, she'd have 26/45 defenses. If it's against a melee unit and she has 16 more resistance than her foe, then she'd have 34/53 defenses when transformed and she initiates or 30/49 otherwise. Because she wants to pass as many resistance checks as possible, Fortress Def/Res would be good on her and paired with Lull Atk/X she could become deceptively bulky. The issue is the Atk-2 from Fortress Def/Re where yes, she can make up the attack with Foxkit Fang against melee units, Lull Atk/Def, attack buffs, and whatever, but it is still Atk-2 and on a unit with 29 base neutral attack who has to deal with positioning if she's not on a beast-dragon team to maintain a 16 Mt weapon.

Lulls are good, but I rather avoid taking counter attack damage altogether if possible. There is only a limited amount of damage the nuke can take with Lulls, but nukes can keep going on forever with Desperation.

Edited by XRay
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1 minute ago, XRay said:

Lulls are good, but I rather avoid taking counter attack damage altogether if possible. There is only a limited amount of damage the nuke can take with Lulls, but nukes can keep going on forever with Desperation.

Yeah, I get that. It's something I want to run on her for fun even if it's not as simple as Desperation. Kind of want to do fun stuff, but all these new and fancy skills are 5* locked or slowly trickled down. Lull Atk/X on Eliwood and CYL Roy is another thing considering they have Steady Impact through unique refined Blazing Durandal.

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28 minutes ago, XRay said:

Moonbow lets her activate a Special during her first round of combat since Desperation is not online yet, unless you step on a Bolt Trap early and want to bring it online sooner, in which case Moonbow would be ready during her second round of combat. You generally want to activate your Specials as soon and as often as you can, since earlier fights are generally a little tougher due to more buffs going around and you really want reduce the amount of enemies on the board and not leave any low HP enemies lying around.

At the very least, I would prefer it if they swap out the Special, A, and B skills. Iceberg is in high supply, so players can Iceberg if they really want it. Atk/Spd Bond honestly is not that great unless you are a Spd tank, and Spd tanks are not really that viable right now unless you are going for a super tank. Sabotage Atk is not really that desirable compared to Sabotage Def or Sabotage Res on a nuke, so at least put that on a tank or something.

If they want me to stick with Wave skills, then they should at least hurry up the release of Odd Res Wave, but I think it is fine on her since I they will get around to releasing the skill eventually, I hope.

Generally speaking yes, but... well I don't know if it's any different for you, but for me the first round of combat for my units is against who they have a color advantage against, and then against neutral color matchup (in this case, Blue or Colorless). With the color advantage (and her alright post-skill bulk), Selkie might not take enough damage to enter Desperation range without Fury, especially if she took FortDR3. Though Fury is probably her best skill anyway, given the all-around advantage it gives her, and her HP is low enough that even low damage intake plus Fury recoil is enough, so don't mind me i'm just rambling...
I'd give/keep a Bond skill for a unit who either is an EP unit, or their weapon already demands they be near someone (see Adrift Corrin's Draconic Rage, The Ylissean Falchion special refine, among others). Sabotage is kinda give or take, depending on if you don't have enough of such support units (Wrys is great with it though, I'd know 🙂 ), though at least they don't give it to units who can't use it.
Now I can't change your opinion on Wave skills, but I do think they're alright for Arena Assault where you aren't on a 7 turn time limit and you can select specific units for the right job. Though... given they've only released Even Waves so far... I hope you're patient.

Edited by Xenomata
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23 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Yeah, adding Tatiana without Zeke just couldn’t be done. It’d be like adding Astram without Midia, or Sirius without Nyna.

 

Sirius does not go with Nyna at all though. Sirius is already with someone by the time Mystery comes around. Tatiana and Zeke are also a really popular and CANON ship.

Astram was a GHB unfortunately so Midia couldn't be added with him.

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10 hours ago, Seazas said:

Sirius does not go with Nyna at all though. Sirius is already with someone by the time Mystery comes around.

He saves Nyna from Medeus twice, that’s not nothing.

10 hours ago, Seazas said:

Tatiana and Zeke are also a really popular and CANON ship.

Many other CANON ships haven’t been completed yet.

10 hours ago, Seazas said:

Astram was a GHB unfortunately so Midia couldn't be added with him.

GHB/TT units have been the pair of a banner unit many times.

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12 hours ago, XRay said:

Selkie is a Player Phase unit, so she needs a kit rehaul.

A build doesn't have to be completely optimized to not be crap. Atk/Spd Bond is the only skill that's completely out of place for Selkie. Everything else is at least workable for her role.

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17 hours ago, XRay said:

Hmm... I can see Darkness Within and Brave Echoes not demoting due to tradition, but Kitsune and Wolfskin does not really have a good reason to not demote Kaden in my opinion outside of being a strong buffer, and we already have a strong buffer a la M!Corrin. Selkie's kit is also crap, but they gave her 5 skills.

Python does have a very unimpressive skill set though.

 

Kaden not demoting ticked me off. (it doesn't help that he pity broke me, twice). goodness gracious do i hate the beasts. (Velouria/Herons aside). 
 

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1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

He saves Nyna from Medeus twice, that’s not nothing.

Many other CANON ships haven’t been completed yet.

GHB/TT units have been the pair of a banner unit many times.

There's characters with relations with Nyna that can be added with her than just Sirius.

As of recently in banner units and the like along with Tatiana being saved, canon couples are getting priority especially important ones.

Not for that one at the time, especially with extra units they're adding,

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12 hours ago, Seazas said:

Sirius does not go with Nyna at all though. Sirius is already with someone by the time Mystery comes around. Tatiana and Zeke are also a really popular and CANON ship.

Astram was a GHB unfortunately so Midia couldn't be added with him.

You literally need Sirius to get Nyna out of her possessed state at the end of the game. They 100% are a pair, regardless who Sirius truly is in love with by that point.

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1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

You literally need Sirius to get Nyna out of her possessed state at the end of the game. They 100% are a pair, regardless who Sirius truly is in love with by that point.

There are other important pairs, Zeke's going with Tatiana and it's very reflective of Camus' arc. Nyna can be added with Hardin or something lol

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Just wanted to look up Sirius final decision. And they surely are vague at some points.. To me it just is like that he disappears and returns to Tatiana after the war. But it could also be that Nyna still follows him though.. I always saw Sirius more as someone who wanted to come to terms with his past and put some things to right. But haven't played Mystery of the Emblem thanks to non localization.. Only read some things up. Wish they would be more clear about some points. But maybe they just love to see the ships battle each other. Or maybe he has gone the harem path.

To me, Zeke shows much devotion to Tatiana, it would kind of grind me if he goes back to Nyna after all things. Also as said this is something which makes him more interesting of a character. They also reflect much on the possibility of Zeke getting his memories back.

That aside Nyna sure has been unfortunate..and her love for Camus is still there. As she only pretends to love Hardin. Which is a reason for Hardin to fall into depravity.

We got so much into this discussion I don't know if spoiler tags cut it anymore. xD

Edited by Stroud
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Oh dear, they've finally added in my favorite Echoes character, Forsyth. The urge to summon for him is strong but I'll wait and see who's the new legendary hero. Sol lance is gonna be fun to use, +10 hp per attack.

I'm also excited for Silque but I don't really use infantry healers all that much. Her art is gorgeous~ and witchy wand has made it into the regular pool. 

Python! He's a great character and surprisingly ended up being crazy good in my SoV run. I'm really hoping he'll be the demote.

I love Catria so I'm fine with her new alt. Ignoring my bias, I think "canon" alts are fine. I'm just miffed she's a swordie, I have too many red fliers 😅. Art is 100/10.

Conrad deserved a prf >:L. Hopefully his stats will be nice with some decent skills. I ain't holding my breath though, free lance cavs tend to disappoint.

All we need is Kamui for the trio now that Valbar is in. I don't have any feathers to spare but he's gonna be a nice merge project in the future. I haven't pulled Bantu yet so who knows if I'll even get him.

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