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mangasdeouf

Let's check personal growths to see how (un)balanced Birthright is

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I chose to compare total growth rates:

Mozu: 370 (with aptitude)

Saizo: 335

Hayato: 315

Azama: 310, Azura: 310, Sakura: 310

Hinoka: 305

Mozu: 290 (without aptitude), Kaden: 290, Ryoma: 290

Takumi: 285, Silas: 285

Oboro: 280, Kaze: 280

Orochi: 275

Scarlet: 270

Hana: 265, Jakob: 265

Felicia: 260, Kagero: 260

Rinkah: 255

Subaki: 250

Hinata: 235

Setsuna: 225

Reina: 195

I think we can say this game does BLATANT FAVORITISM towards ROYALS, MALE NINJAS AND HYBRID UNITS alongside growth units who start level 1 so it's legit, it's their whole design.

On the other hand, except Azama, EVERY WEIRD STAT DISTRIBUTION UNIT HAS GARBAGE TOTAL GROWTHS on top of being really bad in certain stats, like WTF 15% spd Orochi and Hinata, couldn't they at least have 20-25%? That's ridiculous. Subaki's 5% res, 20% spd doesn't help either, alongside a mediocre 30% strength as a tank in a low strength class. At least make him Palla type, but not this deceiving thing... Rinkah who doesn't have any HP/strength on her own, getting everything from her class, while she has skill only from her personal growths and not at all from her class... Setsuna OMG, seriously, she's UNDERLEVELLED, has MEDIOCRE BASE STATS and THE WORST GROWTH TOTAL of any non prepromote unit and barely better distribution with everything into speed and res and mediocre str/skl.

When you see these numbers, don't you want to fire IS BR team? I do, seriously I do... and Conquest is even more into joke units I believe, with a slow mercenary with high str (who should be a fighter), a medium spd no attack high def/res mercenary (who could be, say, a cavalier), a slow and weak dark mage with high skill and average def, a fast dark mage (fast for a dark mage, still too slow to do much with her speed) with average magic (her bases seriously blow) and res and inexistant skl/lck/hp/def, a weak wyvern with good res growth and high skl, a PP cavalier with EP personal skill and so on...

Yeah, this game's bias is seriously going to a point of me wanting to put every stat booster into the weakest units and say screw you to IS, while farming ninja/thieves to get even more stat boosters (it's very time consuming though, but can be made worth with a profiteer capped luck unit with good stats that cleans everything, like the Keaton I took from DT I think it was, top rank in castle visits in European version, with salvage blow, renewal on top of his personal free forging materials).

Edited by mangasdeouf

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I wonder why hybrid units and Ests might need to have higher total growths than normal units...

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Hybrid units should have higher growths because they have 1 more relevant stat. And Ests should have ff6 Karel Growths because otherwise they are bottom tier(mozu is not an est). Other than that the game clearly does not want the siblings to have real competition. 

Edited by Flere210

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7 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Hybrid units should have higher growths because they have 1 more relevant stat. And Ests should have ff6 Karel Growths because otherwise they are bottom tier(mozu is not an est). Other than that the game clearly does not eant the sibling to have real competition. 

They could have a little more, here Saizo has 55% more total than his own brother, with only 45% into magic, so he still has 10% non hybrid growth over Kaze, his only down point is having unimpressive base+growth in speed and being the lowest res ninja isn't a real drawback since he's got the highest def and he's got 5% less hp growth than Kaze with more base HP than Kaze could get in the 4 levels separating them. Onii-sama really beats Nii-chan by a good margin (+ Kaze's awful strength cap in an already low strength cap class hurts Kaze a lot and he needs to go mechanist to ever get acceptable str+def, which makes him loose on res).

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1 minute ago, mangasdeouf said:

They could have a little more, here Saizo has 55% more total than his own brother, with only 45% into magic, so he still has 10% non hybrid growth over Kaze, his only down point is having unimpressive base+growth in speed and being the lowest res ninja isn't a real drawback since he's got the highest def and he's got 5% less hp growth than Kaze with more base HP than Kaze could get in the 4 levels separating them. Onii-sama really beats Nii-chan by a good margin (+ Kaze's awful strength cap in an already low strength cap class hurts Kaze a lot and he needs to go mechanist to ever get acceptable str+def, which makes him loose on res).

Sure, but there is so much to consider that comparing total growth rates does not help much imo. 

Kaze join in every route and as better aviability, and kagero has the best strenght/speed combination, wich are the stats a ninja need the most, so maybe they felt she had to have lower stat total to compensate. A famous comparisson is 3.5 half orc, that got +2 strenght, -2 intelligence and -2 charisma because for a warrior type strenght is so much more important.

I can kinda see the point of some units, for example Rinkah is likely the tankiest unit in the game where every class has average defense or less, so i kinda see why they felt the need to limit her offense. But this is Intsys and they can't balance a game if their life depend on it so obviously they fucked up whit half of the cast.

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2 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Royal bias confirmed.

I've honestly been saying that since shortly after the game came out.

It's not only royal bias, it's side characters absolutely denied a chance to be played for efficiency/LTC! It's really reducing the replayability when one makes subpar units copletely irrelevant just because. I could as well give Ryoma a Hana's blade and let ennemies use hexing rod on him at that point, he wouldn't even be worse than Hana. Xander has 22 base def, which alone makes him good at taking hits, alongside 38 HP, the best HP pool except Revelations Silas, 23 str, 18 skl and 20 luck (10 crit evade + 10 from Siegfried).

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Just now, mangasdeouf said:

It's not only royal bias, it's side characters absolutely denied a chance to be played for efficiency/LTC! It's really reducing the replayability when one makes subpar units copletely irrelevant just because. I could as well give Ryoma a Hana's blade and let ennemies use hexing rod on him at that point, he wouldn't even be worse than Hana. Xander has 22 base def, which alone makes him good at taking hits, alongside 38 HP, the best HP pool except Revelations Silas, 23 str, 18 skl and 20 luck (10 crit evade + 10 from Siegfried).

Agreed. That's one of the reasons I hate the Royals a lot.

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Just now, DragonFlames said:

Agreed. That's one of the reasons I hate the Royals a lot.

I wish I could upvote.

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When I see this...Setsuna has 60% less GR than Takumi and 85% less than Sakura, another potential bow wielder starting low level with mediocre str in base class. But Sakura's bow is more occasional while Setsuna's is her only use.

PS: for a no-royals no ninja no pre-promotes run, you have to choose between servants, Silas, Mozu.

In BR: Setsuna Azama Hinata Oboro Hana Subaki Hayato Rinkah Orochi Kaden (although he's technically a lord), which let you use: 1 archer, 1 unpromoted healer (I think Subaki and Orochi will be much more useful here once promoted), 2 swordies, 1 sky knight, 1 lance fighter, 2 diviners, 1 oni and 1 shapeshifter. 5 with decent def (several who need a seal to get more def or speed or whatever stat is needed), 6 with passable to decent res (counting Setsuna, Hana and Subaki, which let you Orochi, Kaden and Azama who can tank them better because of HP or 1-2range counter + higher res). Hayato could go to oni to have a 2nd Rinkah with more HP and less acc (at least he won't be OHKO or ORKO in chap 9)

In CQ: Laslow Peri Selena Beruka Odin Niles Effie Arthur Nyx Charlotte Benny Keaton (Flora if she's in the same case as Jakob/Felicia): 2 mercenaries, 2 fighters, 1 wyvern, 2 cavaliers, 2 dark mages, 2 knights, 1 thief, 1 shapeshifter (, 1 servant if allowed). Few can take magic hits at all, CQ non royals really have low res. Only Benny is really fine against mages if they don't double (ninja Benny is funny for he remains bulky but he also becomes average in speed and he grows much more res, and doesn't need wary fighter, + a tank with shuriken is very nice to set up kills).

No Azura hurts

PS: Hero Benny has 32 HP, 15 str, 20 skl, 11 spd, 12 luck, 18+2 def and 11 res at base, might be worth considering as his best class, if he goes fighter he has the time to grind axe ranks (+5 HP gives him 37 HP lol, he's nearly no Siegfried Xander at base with an instant promo, just lacking some speed), it's insane how underestimated he is while he could do that so easily.

Edited by mangasdeouf

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7 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

I wonder why hybrid units and Ests might need to have higher total growths than normal units...

Well, the class system isn't helping, here.

But spamming poison strike will solve everything.

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Not to be that person, but isn't this every FE in a nutshell? They always have good and bad characters, that's all there is to it, really. And their "main" characters are usually better, it's not unusual or anything.

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On 10/23/2019 at 10:55 PM, lightcosmo said:

Not to be that person, but isn't this every FE in a nutshell? They always have good and bad characters, that's all there is to it, really. And their "main" characters are usually better, it's not unusual or anything.

I felt like the difference was even bigger in Fates, Radiant Dawn is known to be completely unbalanced but that's what you get by putting together 3 games and casts in one and having availability issues. Fates has 3 different games separated but they do the same balance issues (+ Hana is NERFED in IK while this game's ennemies are a lot stronger than BR's and much more overlevelled, she barely tickles ennemies at any stage of the game in hard, that's not counting lunatic, seriously tht girl is similar to Kagero, but Kagero has a better class for glass canon work and a usable base strength + poison strike).

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5 hours ago, joshcja said:

*Screams in Saizo*

Saizo was the wannabe Ryu Hayabusa/Hanzo Hattori, wasn't he?
If I remember correctly, he was "the best" out of the three "natural" Ninjas in the game due to his high growths in most areas. Shame about his Speed, though.

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Growth totals are an incredibly poor way to judge units.

I'd take Reina over Takumi, despite (a) the latter being a royal, and (b) the former having bad growth totals, because Reina joins at a high level in a strong class, with early access to skills like Replicate, decent weapon ranks, and growths which at least allow her to grow in the two most important stats.

The royals are overall good units, to be sure, but as mentioned plot-important characters often are, especially in recent games.

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While the growth totals are all over the place, trying to judge unit balance in Birthright is kinda complaining about the temperature in a burning building. The units are kinda all over the place in quality, but it doesn't ultimately matter much in such an easy route like Birthright or the hot mess that is Revelation. 

Also, just comparing the growth disparities among the units is only looking at parts of the pictures. The units bases are just as important, as well as the system that they're in. Hana is not only bad cuz she's bad, but also bad cuz dodgetanking is harder to do in Fates. RInkah isn't great cuz you don't often need a tank in Birthright. 

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