How do Class-Change values affect class base stats

[Sir_Jamsession]

So referencing this page:

https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/classes/class-change/

and this page:

https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/classes/base-stats/

Do class-change values affect base stats? For instance, say I go from mercenary to fortress knight and my shown HP is 20. How do class-change stats factor in here?

• Current HP = 20
• Fortress Knight's base HP = 35.
• Mercenary HP class-change HP = 1
• Fortress Knight's class-change HP = 5

When I level up, does the game do the following?

1. Starting value (20)
2. Remove the mercenary class-value (-1 = 19)
3. Adjust to the Fortress Knight's base HP (+16 = 35)
4. Add the Fortress Knight's class-change HP (+5 = 40)

I don't think that's it, but I'm really not sure how it's calculated.

Thanks!

[Ertrick36]

12 minutes ago, Sir_Jamsession said:

1. Starting value (20)
2. Remove the mercenary class-value (-1 = 19)
3. Adjust to the Fortress Knight's base HP (+16 = 35)
4. Add the Fortress Knight's class-change HP (+5 = 40)

That's how it'd operate, yeah.  Just think of the base value as your unit's stats before the class modifiers are applied.  The only time a class will change your base values is if your base values are lower than the class's base values, and it changes permanently as soon as you take the certification exam.  So if you were to take the certification exam for Fortress Knight but remain as a Mercenary, your HP would be 36 (base HP would be at 35, and you'd get a +1 to that with the Mercenary's modifier).  Base stats can only ever increase, they will never, ever decrease.

An easier way to check this than looking it up on SF is if you go into the reclass/certification menus, when you get to the class view press ZR/ZL, press X, then hover the cursor over the stats.  It'll give you information about the class modifiers and how the class will affect your base stats.  And if nothing else it'll show you what the stats will look like when you change class anyway.

[Sir_Jamsession]

Thanks for the info! That definitely makes sense!

[Ivan Tridelan]

For this reason, despite Fortress Knight being a garbage class, it's actually very useful for mages to certify in it if you're not opposed to grinding/are on NG+. 17 Strength and Defense is huge for characters like Dorothea, Lysithea, etc. since most of them will not even reach 10 in either by level 20.

[Shadow Mir]

7 minutes ago, Ivan Tridelan said:

For this reason, despite Fortress Knight being a garbage class, it's actually very useful for mages to certify in it if you're not opposed to grinding/are on NG+. 17 Strength and Defense is huge for characters like Dorothea, Lysithea, etc. since most of them will not even reach 10 in either by level 20.

Problem is, considering that most mages are weak in one or both of Heavy Armor and Axes, I think it's too much hassle for too little profit.

[Flere210]

38 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Problem is, considering that most mages are weak in one or both of Heavy Armor and Axes, I think it's too much hassle for too little profit.

The requirement of weight-3 is likely enought to take the exam at less than 100% rate so it's not too bad. Also annette best spell is bolt axe + anyway

[Shadow Mir]

28 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

The requirement of weight-3 is likely enought to take the exam at less than 100% rate so it's not too bad. Also annette best spell is bolt axe + anyway

Not when you're talking about two skills of which most mages have a bane in at least one. And I disagree with that other statement considering the Bolt Axe is too heavy and too inaccurate, and not nearly powerful enough to make up for it.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Silly]

22 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Not when you're talking about two skills of which most mages have a bane in at least one. And I disagree with that other statement considering the Bolt Axe is too heavy and too inaccurate, and not nearly powerful enough to make up for it.

I do agree that it's unrealistic to expect most mages to reach Fortress Knight. B Axe B Armor means that you're wasting way too much weapon exp in unhelpful skills. Even if we assume we're only going for the minimum pass rate we would need C+ in both Axe and Armor, which is still hard.

However, I do want to point out that in the context of a LTC run Annette's best two classes are actually Paladin and Wyvern, with the Wyvern leaning heavily on Bolt Axe + Crusher to deal damage.

For example, this is an old video of a 2 turn LTC clear of the Petra/Bernadetta paralogue (Hard Mode), which is generally considered to be one of the most annoying maps. It makes important use of the extra damage and mobility that Wyvern has over the other classes that Annette has access to.

Spoiler

 

 

[Ivan Tridelan]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 11:15 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Problem is, considering that most mages are weak in one or both of Heavy Armor and Axes, I think it's too much hassle for too little profit.

Which is why I specifically mentioned grinding or NG+. I can tell you that Marianne, Lysithea, Dorothea and Bernadetta all very much appreciated the free points on my Maddening NG run (CF). If you don't want to go that far, you can settle for Armor Knight's 9 Strength and 13 Defense for the investment of what is likely D Axes and C Armor (for Weight -3) at level 10, which is still a big boost for such characters. On Maddening in particular, the 13 Defense in particular (given most such characters have like 5 Defense at level 10 at most) is huge.

 

Incidentally:

Neutral in both: Dorothea

Neutral in One: Hubert (Armor), Lindhart (Armor), Marianne (Axes), Manuela (Axes), Hanneman (Axes), Flayn (Axes)

Strong in one: Annette (Axes)

Weak in Both: Mercedes, Lysithea

 

Out of the canon mages, only Lysithea and Mercedes are weak in both. You also only need D in Armor which if you want Weight -3 you have already.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Ivan Tridelan

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Ivan Tridelan said:

Which is why I specifically mentioned grinding or NG+. I can tell you that Marianne, Lysithea, Dorothea and Bernadetta all very much appreciated the free points on my Maddening NG run (CF). If you don't want to go that far, you can settle for Armor Knight's 9 Strength and 13 Defense for the investment of what is likely D Axes and C Armor (for Weight -3) at level 10, which is still a big boost for such characters. On Maddening in particular, the 13 Defense in particular (given most such characters have like 5 Defense at level 10 at most) is huge.

 

Incidentally:

Neutral in both: Dorothea

Neutral in One: Hubert (Armor), Lindhart (Armor), Marianne (Axes), Manuela (Axes), Hanneman (Axes), Flayn (Axes)

Strong in one: Annette (Axes)

Weak in Both: Mercedes, Lysithea

 

Out of the canon mages, only Lysithea and Mercedes are weak in both. You also only need D in Armor which if you want Weight -3 you have already.

Don't you need C in Armor for Weight -3? At any rate, even if I was okay with having the minimum pass rate, I'd need C+ in both, which is still a tall order when all mages except for one (Dorothea) have a weakness in at least one of the requirements. There's still the matter of wasting too much weapon experience in unhelpful skills, too, which NG+ doesn't alleviate.

[Fire Flower]

You'd need C armor for weight -3, yes.

Honestly I think the skill itself is too much of a hassle for the amount of investment you put into it. Speed+2 is weight-3 but better, and works for all attacks and not just physical.

If you're grinding/NG+ it's viable, yes, but everything is viable if you're doing that.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Fire Flower

[Kruggov]

3 hours ago, Fire Flower said:

You'd need C armor for weight -3, yes.

Honestly I think the skill itself is too much of a hassle for the amount of investment you put into it. Speed+2 is weight-3 but better, and works for all attacks and not just physical.

If you're grinding/NG+ it's viable, yes, but everything is viable if you're doing that.

Speed+2 is not as great for mages, since you have to take them out of mage class for at least 30 battles, and thrown them into the thick of it (and most mages are made of paper), though you can still use bows to avoid 1-range.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Kruggov

[Cysx]

Trying to inflate mage speed to reach doubling tresholds on maddening is typically an uphill battle anyway. I do think getting them to Armor knight requirements is a decent idea as well, even on Lysithea. Helps with not getting OHKOed for much longer.
Fortress Knight on the other hand, yeah, too complicated without grinding.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Cysx

[Modirufa6317]

In general, only intermediate classes are worth going out of your way for, if you only want to increase an unit's base stats. The requirements for advanced classes and beyond is too much to be worth the extra investement, and their bases aren't high enough to compensate.

That being said, I think peoples underestimate the temporary class-change stats far too much : +10 def on Forteress Knight is huge, and more than make up for the speed debuff (unlike the mounted classes), even if you have no interest in its growth.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Modirufa6317

[Shadow Mir]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:01 PM, Silly said:

I do agree that it's unrealistic to expect most mages to reach Fortress Knight. B Axe B Armor means that you're wasting way too much weapon exp in unhelpful skills. Even if we assume we're only going for the minimum pass rate we would need C+ in both Axe and Armor, which is still hard.

However, I do want to point out that in the context of a LTC run Annette's best two classes are actually Paladin and Wyvern, with the Wyvern leaning heavily on Bolt Axe + Crusher to deal damage.

For example, this is an old video of a 2 turn LTC clear of the Petra/Bernadetta paralogue (Hard Mode), which is generally considered to be one of the most annoying maps. It makes important use of the extra damage and mobility that Wyvern has over the other classes that Annette has access to.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Granted, LTC is different from other runs, but sill, I'm just not convinced Wyvern Annette is anything other than a gimmick. Having to rely on two weapons with spotty accuracy, one of which is only usable on one route due to the other unit needed being exclusive to said route, for magic damage is a very, very shitty position to be in. And I seriously doubt I'd recommend it on Maddening, too.

[AxelVDP]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Granted, LTC is different from other runs, but sill, I'm just not convinced Wyvern Annette is anything other than a gimmick. Having to rely on two weapons with spotty accuracy, one of which is only usable on one route due to the other unit needed being exclusive to said route, for magic damage is a very, very shitty position to be in. And I seriously doubt I'd recommend it on Maddening, too.

you run wyvern (or paladin) annette for a flying rally user with canto (and this is hardly a gimmick), being able to hit like a truck is just a great bonus