Naga's Gender

[Jotari]

This has sort of been discussed at length in the past, but I was struck with a sudden urge to see it discussed again. I don't think it's been talked about a whole lot since Awakening kind of confirmed things. For those of you new to the series, there used to be some debate on Naga's gender. This might surprise some of you, as for over half a decade now this has been Naga

But before that, we actually had this.

That's Naga's first depiction in the series, the opening of Fire Emblem Mystery of the Emblem where Naga is clearly a male warrior. However, the debate didn't start with Awakening, if anything that's where it ended. It probably started in Genalogy of the Holy War where Forseti says this of Naga.

“That’s right. They all assumed human forms. Narga, the god of light, appeared as a young maiden, and the fire god Salamand was that of an elderly man. Each god performed blood rites with one of the 12 chosen warriors.”

So back to back we had two conflicting depictions of Naga, one male, one female. To make matters more complicated we later had Nagi in Shadow Dragon who was described as the Dragon King's Avatar, yet she was female. Although it should be noted that the monarch title of King attributed to Naga is gender neutral in Japanese and Japanese as a whole can get away with gender neutral language without coming off as really obviously hiding something.

And now our most recent game, Shadows of Valentia, we have Mila referring to Naga as she (something she probably doesn't do in the Japanese version), yet referring to Falchion as Kingsfang, not Queensfang (something she also probably doesn't do in Japanese).

So Kingsfang aside, it seems in the past decade or so IS has solidly landed on Naga is female. Nagi was probably the first solid confirmation of this. But the question remains as to when this decision was made? Was Naga always intended to be female? It's possible. The depiction in Mystery of the Emblem of Naga as a male warrior is from the viewpoint of humans, and one of the plot points in that game is how humans have rewritten history and the truth that is widely believed is inaccurate. So it'd fit with the themes that a female dragon was turned into a male god. Except, there's no real reveal of Naga's gender in Mystery of the Emblem, which one would expect if that was meant to be the point. Thematically it could make sense, but there's no narrative follow through. People playing Mystery of the Emblem in isolation can see that depicting Naga as a humanoid wielding Falchion and the Shield of Seals is inaccurate, but there's no reason to assume the gender is inaccurate. Another possibility is that the figure in that mosaic is meant to be viewed as female which...eh. Maybe. You decide I guess.

There's also something I always have found suspect in the Genealogy reference. That is how attention is brought to the fact that Naga appeared as a maiden. It's something that's specifically highlighted, and it didn't really need to be. If Naga was conceptualized as a woman from the start than they could simply have said she (and the other dragons) appeared in human forms and performed the blood rites. Exactly what does human forms looked like is irrelevant unless their appearance is meant to mean something.  There's also the minor point that Kurthnaga in Tellius derives his name from Naga and is male.

So, the situation is either that Naga has always been a woman and some strange narrative device was at play in the first few games. Naga was initially a man but was retconned into a woman in Genealogy of the Holy War, or, my personal preferred view of the situation, Naga is a bigendered being who is sometimes a man and sometimes a woman. So which of these view points do you hold on the situation? Would you be against seeing a male incarnation of Naga in a future game?

Edited October 24, 2019 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

I'll say "Ambivalent before FE11, female since then".

Kaga just never pinned it down in the old games from what we know, yet IS without him has definitively chosen female. Though Naga being a more spiritual existence in FE13 means that sex and gender doesn't seriously matter anymore for her. She could appear as an edgy bodybuilder shota with a codpiece if she wanted to.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'll say "Ambivalent before FE11, female since then".

Kaga just never pinned it down in the old games from what we know, yet IS without him has definitively chosen female. Though Naga being a more spiritual existence in FE13 means that sex and gender doesn't seriously matter anymore for her. She could appear as an edgy bodybuilder shota with a codpiece if she wanted to.

Well sex wouldn't, but gender still would.

[Fabulously Olivier]

My interpretation - Naga has always been a woman, but mankind wanted to portray their god as a man. 

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

Naga is a woman as seen in awakening and I don't think the humans ever saw her so they thought she was a man. Also Nagi basically confirms that Naga was a woman.

[Yexin]

i honestly don't care about fe's lore, that's not the reason why i play fe games

imo they just wanted naga to have boobs, and they gave her boobs

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

yet referring to Falchion as Kingsfang, not Queensfang (something she also probably doesn't do in Japanese)

Just want to add that Mila in JP refers to the Falchion as 王の牙, which just means... "The King's Fang". Technically 王 can be gender neutral though.

[Fabulously Olivier]

12 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Just want to add that Mila in JP refers to the Falchion as 王の牙, which just means... "The King's Fang". Technically 王 can be gender neutral though.

The King may be Anri. Named for the wielder, not the source.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Etheus

[Flere210]

Still, because of Shining Force i can only think of Anri as a female name.

[Emperor Hardin]

There was a discussion about this recently and in Japanese, Gotoh, Xane, and Lewyn/Forseti use MALE pronouns to refer to Naga. 

This was why FE12 fan translation having Naga explicitly referred to as female was controversial.

[Rezzy]

I think Naga was just retconned into being a woman, although if she's a God, making the switch would be a lot easier than for humans.

[NinjaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

But before that, we actually had this.

That's Naga's first depiction in the series, the opening of Fire Emblem Mystery of the Emblem where Naga is clearly a male warrior. 

It looks to me that it could be either male or female, seeing as the figure is wearing loose-fitting clothing on their top half, with no distinctive male or female outline.

[Acacia Sgt]

That picture is certainly meant to be "artist's rendition". Just look how the "orbs" of the shield are depicted.

Also, huh, that one person has a cross in their robes. Interesting detail.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Etheus said:

The King may be Anri. Named for the wielder, not the source.

Well, the Falchion in Valentia was never wielded by Anri. And in Heroes, Naga's C skill Divine Fang is called 神竜王の牙 (Divine Dragon King's Fang), so I feel like that might not be the case.

[Jotari]

14 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Just want to add that Mila in JP refers to the Falchion as 王の牙, which just means... "The King's Fang". Technically 王 can be gender neutral though.

Just as I assumed 

14 hours ago, Etheus said:

The King may be Anri. Named for the wielder, not the source.

Anri never wielded the Valencian Falchion.

[Just call me AL]

I'm thinking she's always been female. Keep in mind, the description she's given in Genealogy of the Holy War highly closely how she looks in FE13, as well as Tiki (her daughter) and Nagi (who is most likely her avatar). That being said, I think she's sometimes thought of as male because of the vessel she may be possessing at the time.

[X-Naut]

Archanea's leadership being predominantly male might have something to do with masculine portrayals of Naga.

[Emperor Hardin]

4 hours ago, X-Naut said:

Archanea's leadership being predominantly male might have something to do with masculine portrayals of Naga.

While I consider that too, the Manaketes that know Naga refer to them with terms that are generally used for masculine individuals.

[Jotari]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:56 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

It looks to me that it could be either male or female, seeing as the figure is wearing loose-fitting clothing on their top half, with no distinctive male or female outline.

I note that as a possibility in the OP. Though if that is a woman, then she's probably supporting some underboob behind that shield. Assuming she's not meant to be completely flat chested.

[Tetragrammaton]

I have a theory that Loptous is a female when s/he transform into Naga and is a male when s/he transform into Xane.

[Jotari]

57 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

I have a theory that Loptous is a female when s/he transform into Naga and is a male when s/he transform into Xane.

So are you suggesting Naga and Loptyr are the same person? That just raises further questions!

[Timlugia]

Consider Naga in FE was strongly based on Amaterasu of Japanese mythology, I would consider Naga as female to begin with.

Interestingly, both Naga/Marth relationship, and Sothis/Byleth (At least in Silver Snow) were heavily inspired by Japaneses founding legend of Amaterasu and Emperor Jimmu.