Fates Conquest Bow Emblem: Bows only run challenge

[mangasdeouf]

Hi,

As much as we say Conquest lacks bows, the fact is that every 1st gen unit can get a bow class (some only after promotion but still) without using Corrin at all. SO, I'm immediately getting to the point:

Let's play a full bow wielding party!

Rules:

1. No Boo Camp unless it's really too hard.

2. No stat-taker skills (strengthtaker and co).

3. Use as much gold farming as you can (you'll need it) and buy second seals/friendship seals from other castles. Marriage seal should not need to be bought from other castles since you've got 3 by chapter 14 or so.

4. Reclass ASAP if reclassing is needed to get a bow (except healers, you keep them until you've got 1 or 2 adventurers, depending on your need for staves, I suggest heavy heal spamming to get adventurers ASAP so you don't have to use E staffers too long and magic bow users at E rank).

5. It's not a race, if you're loosing your mind, just do something else and come back whenever you want.

6. Everyone get a bow class, even benchwarmers  (at least they can shoot at each other from each side of the bench). It wouldn't be funny otherwise!

7. No other restriction, skill buy if you want since builds are the most funny thing to go for in such a run (especially if you don't want to do point blank DLC for each and every unit you'll play).

8. HAVE FUN!

- - - - -

My team would be:

- Jakob bow knight (from Felicia S), not usable before long though;

- Silas bow knight;

- Kaze mechanist;

- Mozu sniper, maybe Kinshi for diversity (+ she's the only potential kinshi who doesn't need good growth rates from the class since she's got good ones from personal + aptitude);

- Shura himself;

- Xander bow knight (A+ Laslow), although he could go mechanist too (A+ Kaze) but he would be completely unable to wield his personal sword and he would only loose HP, str, def and mov from paladin so I don't think it's worth it (bow knight gives instant +2 speed, which is all Xander needs to rock with much less investment than he'd need in paladin, 18 base spd >>16);

- Leo adventurer or bow knight (A+ from Niles, I haven't decided yet);

- Camilla bow knight (A+ Selena);

- Elise adventurer (S Niles) to keep staves;

- Laslow bow knight (saving a second seal + bow knight 2 speed advantage is better for him than mechanist mediocre bases + growths);

- Peri mechanist (S with Kaze) because I think the class suits her more thematically (it's weird, unappealing, and puppets are creepy, sadly mechanists don't summon or control puppets...), but bow knight is possible too (A+ Selena);

- Beruka bow knight (A+ Selena);

- Selena Kinshi because we've got too many bow knights already;

- Odin adventurer (we need staves and we're already lacking them too much);

- Niles depends (if he's got enough mag he goes adventurer, if he's got too low mag he goes bow knight);

- Effie sniper or Kinshi (A+ Mozu) (sniper is more effective but Kinshi is still fast, increases greatly her res and there aren't many flying archers for the moment);

- Arthur bow knight (A+ Niles);

- Nyx adventurer;

- Charlotte bow knight (S Keaton);

- Benny either bow knight or Sniper (a tank not vulnerable to bows is nice so Kinshi is out);

- Keaton bow knight (A+ Laslow);

- Gunter bow knight;

- Flora bow knight (A+ Felicia);

- Izana mechanist.

Corrin can be anything so I don't mention him/her, although ballistician Cornflakes could be funny, if I don't end up giving dat class to Gunter with a +2 silver bow for a decent attack and accuracy, and he can get more attack without having to fight with moar and moar foarges.

 

[joshcja]

1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

Hi,

As much as we say Conquest lacks bows, the fact is that every 1st gen unit can get a bow class (some only after promotion but still) without using Corrin at all. SO, I'm immediately getting to the point:

Let's play a full bow wielding party!

Rules:

1. No Boo Camp unless it's really too hard.

2. No stat-taker skills (strengthtaker and co).

3. Use as much gold farming as you can (you'll need it) and buy second seals/friendship seals from other castles. Marriage seal should not need to be bought from other castles since you've got 3 by chapter 14 or so.

4. Reclass ASAP if reclassing is needed to get a bow (except healers, you keep them until you've got 1 or 2 adventurers, depending on your need for staves, I suggest heavy heal spamming to get adventurers ASAP so you don't have to use E staffers too long and magic bow users at E rank).

5. It's not a race, if you're loosing your mind, just do something else and come back whenever you want.

6. Everyone get a bow class, even benchwarmers  (at least they can shoot at each other from each side of the bench). It wouldn't be funny otherwise!

7. No other restriction, skill buy if you want since builds are the most funny thing to go for in such a run (especially if you don't want to do point blank DLC for each and every unit you'll play).

8. HAVE FUN!

- - - - -

My team would be:

- Jakob bow knight (from Felicia S), not usable before long though;

- Silas bow knight;

- Kaze mechanist;

- Mozu sniper, maybe Kinshi for diversity (+ she's the only potential kinshi who doesn't need good growth rates from the class since she's got good ones from personal + aptitude);

- Shura himself;

- Xander bow knight (A+ Laslow), although he could go mechanist too (A+ Kaze) but he would be completely unable to wield his personal sword and he would only loose HP, str, def and mov from paladin so I don't think it's worth it (bow knight gives instant +2 speed, which is all Xander needs to rock with much less investment than he'd need in paladin, 18 base spd >>16);

- Leo adventurer or bow knight (A+ from Niles, I haven't decided yet);

- Camilla bow knight (A+ Selena);

- Elise adventurer (S Niles) to keep staves;

- Laslow bow knight (saving a second seal + bow knight 2 speed advantage is better for him than mechanist mediocre bases + growths);

- Peri mechanist (S with Kaze) because I think the class suits her more thematically (it's weird, unappealing, and puppets are creepy, sadly mechanists don't summon or control puppets...), but bow knight is possible too (A+ Selena);

- Beruka bow knight (A+ Selena);

- Selena Kinshi because we've got too many bow knights already;

- Odin adventurer (we need staves and we're already lacking them too much);

- Niles depends (if he's got enough mag he goes adventurer, if he's got too low mag he goes bow knight);

- Effie sniper or Kinshi (A+ Mozu) (sniper is more effective but Kinshi is still fast, increases greatly her res and there aren't many flying archers for the moment);

- Arthur bow knight (A+ Niles);

- Nyx adventurer;

- Charlotte bow knight (S Keaton);

- Benny either bow knight or Sniper (a tank not vulnerable to bows is nice so Kinshi is out);

- Keaton bow knight (A+ Laslow);

- Gunter bow knight;

- Flora bow knight (A+ Felicia);

- Izana mechanist.

Corrin can be anything so I don't mention him/her, although ballistician Cornflakes could be funny, if I don't end up giving dat class to Gunter with a +2 silver bow for a decent attack and accuracy, and he can get more attack without having to fight with moar and moar foarges.

 

This seems a lot more difficult than just using kids.

Spoilers: Bowquest is pretty much a standard CQ run eskewing the main EP units in favor of a fugjillion bowbirds.

[Feathermind]

I dub this team "Hinoka's Bad Day."

Granted Hinoka gets Wing Shield in Conquest to remove her bow weakness, plus there are multiple Kinshi Knights with Bowbreaker on her stage, but details...

[mangasdeouf]

1 hour ago, Feathermind said:

I dub this team "Hinoka's Bad Day."

Granted Hinoka gets Wing Shield in Conquest to remove her bow weakness, plus there are multiple Kinshi Knights with Bowbreaker on her stage, but details...

+1

If you can get one with lance breaker, the bow breaker pegasi don't get any benefit from bowbreaker ^^. Fight fire with fire!

3 hours ago, joshcja said:

This seems a lot more difficult than just using kids.

Spoilers: Bowquest is pretty much a standard CQ run eskewing the main EP units in favor of a fugjillion bowbirds.

Kids are annoying to use, they require S rank for each of them (A+ is faster), they're 2x less numerous than gen 1, and not every kid can have access to bows, I guess. Didn't check it though. I hate having to optimize each child for the role I want it to fulfill. Gen 1 are already specialized, don't suffer from mom issues and are available from the get go, also they don't add maps to recruit (even if several of them will require some support grinding in order to access bows). Nothing stops you from doing paralogues, if you want to do them. This challenge doesn't count gen 2 in but grinding is authorized (and even recommended since you'll need some gold to get all the seals necessary).

[JubileePhoenix]

What difficulty mode do you want us to do this on? Because im not going to even try this on lunatic. Hard mode is iffy, but im pretty sure I can pull this off on normal. 

[mangasdeouf]

14 minutes ago, JubileePhoenix said:

What difficulty mode do you want us to do this on? Because im not going to even try this on lunatic. Hard mode is iffy, but im pretty sure I can pull this off on normal. 

Hard mode, it's the normal difficulty. You can always reduce the difficulty afterwards.

I don't think playing 80% 9 base speed class will really make the game THAT hard, especially when bows counter or go even with most annoying ennemies in CQ.

Edited October 27, 2019 by mangasdeouf

[JubileePhoenix]

48 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

Hard mode, it's the normal difficulty. You can always reduce the difficulty afterwards.

I don't think playing 80% 9 base speed class will really make the game THAT hard, especially when bows counter or go even with most annoying ennemies in CQ.

 

Oh, I misread the rules its only bow classes Not only using the bow as the only weapon. So I believe then I can pull his off on hard then.  Since im not allowed to use the boo camp, I won't use the  2x exp skill as well (unless it's too hard).  No taker skills as well, but ill pick up Anna if thats alright? I'll be writing this down chapter by chapter and post my final thoughts if I beat the challenge on this post. Wish me luck!

[joshcja]

4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

+1

If you can get one with lance breaker, the bow breaker pegasi don't get any benefit from bowbreaker ^^. Fight fire with fire!

Kids are annoying to use, they require S rank for each of them (A+ is faster), they're 2x less numerous than gen 1, and not every kid can have access to bows, I guess. Didn't check it though. I hate having to optimize each child for the role I want it to fulfill. Gen 1 are already specialized, don't suffer from mom issues and are available from the get go, also they don't add maps to recruit (even if several of them will require some support grinding in order to access bows). Nothing stops you from doing paralogues, if you want to do them. This challenge doesn't count gen 2 in but grinding is authorized (and even recommended since you'll need some gold to get all the seals necessary).

Every single kid can pick up a bow and we recruit before ch14.

You certainly used up a lot of words though.

[Eltosian Kadath]

This sounds like fun, but I have my FE plate overly full at the moment, otherwise I would try it on Lunatic.

[mangasdeouf]

10 hours ago, joshcja said:

Every single kid can pick up a bow and we recruit before ch14.

You certainly used up a lot of words though.

The whole point is to use gen 1 only. Units who have the same base whatever you do (children have different stats and growths depending on their mommy/daddy). And I'm quite sick of people always brining in children, in this game none of them is cannon in the main story by the way (no forced wedding, no story related children). And by playing the awful End: Lost in the waves, that's supposed to give me Point blank...only if all children stay alive (why didn't they tell us from the beginning that everyone should be alive? It takes like 30 minutes to complete and now you say I should do it again?) I already saw how unsatisfying these children are (like, seriously, most of them are inferior to their only parent, and thanks IS to force the player to make survive every child when they're straight up lower level than the 40+ ennemies coming at them, with 6 levels disadvantage over the parents, I didn't look at randoms' level), I got enough of their inferiority (even with the legendary/character locked weapons they're inferior to the 1st gen...such a shame... plus you have very few active skills, so nohrian trust is quite useless sadly...).

13 hours ago, JubileePhoenix said:

Oh, I misread the rules its only bow classes Not only using the bow as the only weapon. So I believe then I can pull his off on hard then.  Since im not allowed to use the boo camp, I won't use the  2x exp skill as well (unless it's too hard).  No taker skills as well, but ill pick up Anna if thats alright? I'll be writing this down chapter by chapter and post my final thoughts if I beat the challenge on this post. Wish me luck!

Elite can be used (but it's only 1 per file sadly ^^) as well as all the DLC content except takers (they make the game too easy, just use defense/res or mag/str taker and stomp). I never know who to give elite too (+ it costs a skill slot...not really a good thing, and once you're over levelled, you gain 2 exp per kill wit elite...which happens too fast since ennemies have both high stats and a low level...this game should have been made by better level designers...at least if the ennemies are strong, they should give the exp that comes with strength, like the cavalier in FE6 that comes with a silver and high stats, well he is higher level and rewards the killer with more exp...that's worth it, not higher stats for no return, especially in a game with overspecialized playable units that end up having big weaknesses and damage being completely breaking the ceiling).

 

18 hours ago, joshcja said:

This seems a lot more difficult than just using kids.

1. Many kids don't have a real edge over their original parent and optimization and co are so boring and a big waste of time...

2. If it's more difficult, then it's a challenge

3. The title contains the word "challenge", thus refer to point 2.

If you usually use children, then you'll have to play differently in this playthrough, isn't it good to try different things? After all, many players don't even use bows most of the time (casual players), so it's not like

18 hours ago, joshcja said:

Bowquest is pretty much a standard CQ run eskewing the main EP units in favor of a fugjillion bowbirds.

. Isn't it? + You probably use many units without a bow. And here you have to make everyone a bow wielder, even units never used, wich is quite different from just sticking to one party (and who knows, you might even enjoy one unit in a bow class more than the way you usually used them, and use them again in another PT? Change is now, this was François Hollande's campaign title, even though he didn't change much outside allowing gay weddings, which was kinda forced on him since like 50% of the people voting wanted it and moe than half of the people who voted for him).

 

11 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

This sounds like fun, but I have my FE plate overly full at the moment, otherwise I would try it on Lunatic.

Wow you're gonna suffer.

 

PS (might contain DLC SPOILERS): seriously I liked Lost in the waves for it's story, but IS is really bad at understanding what a DLC reward should mean, and give us all the information. I'm glad they didn't also make it so that Royale Royale would require you to make everyone survive, or it would be staright up impossible to get the rewards. Lost in the waves is a pain to complete without loosing any inferior unit to the more numerous and more competent ennemies. Even the rallies...they could give you more than one per rally unit, so you could not waste 4 people's turn to have 1 rally of each...and more activable skills, Nohrian trust is here just to activate the protection skill from female Kana, but even then it didn't activate a single time for me, so useless...might as well give him an actual skill. Midori is complete garbage in this DLC stats-wise...even her luck stat is only 29 and it's CAPPED...

[starburst]

- Sniper Mozu.
- Archer Silas, then Sniper or Mechanist.
- Bow Knight or Merchant Sophie.

- Outlaw Effie, then Sniper.
- Adventurer Niles.
- Bow Night Nina.

- Adventurer Anna.

- Sniper Cornflakes (Mechanist is easier.)

- Bow Knight or Mechanist Selena.
- Mechanist Kaze.

No grinding should be required, and both children should pop around Chapter 11.
I tried something similar months ago, but I allowed Strategist Elise and Sorcerer Ophelia, I believe. I did not complete the campaign, though (played it up to Ch 18 or so.) Ten units only, no pre-promotes, no "backpacks", no Internet, no DLC, no nothing.

[mangasdeouf]

1 hour ago, starburst said:

- Sniper Mozu.
- Archer Silas, then Sniper or Mechanist.
- Bow Knight or Merchant Sophie.

- Outlaw Effie, then Sniper.
- Adventurer Niles.
- Bow Night Nina.

- Adventurer Anna.

- Sniper Cornflakes (Mechanist is easier.)

- Bow Knight or Mechanist Selena.
- Mechanist Kaze.

No grinding should be required, and both children should pop around Chapter 11.
I tried something similar months ago, but I allowed Strategist Elise and Sorcerer Ophelia, I believe. I did not complete the campaign, though (played it up to Ch 18 or so.) Ten units only, no pre-promotes, no "backpacks", no Internet, no DLC, no nothing.

I think Anna shouldn't be allowed, since she's a DLC-exclusive unit, doesn't count as a normal gen 1 unit (she's not in the basic cast and unlike Awakening Anna she isn't available without paying) + she can be obtained early and cheese the game as a Shiro-like unit in early game. She's also more useful than Reina thanks to having lockpick, staves and access to physical and magical damage.

Play it as you want, but the topic rule is gen 1 units, children don't count because they're too customizable. You can also patch up their weaknesses or make them overspecialized at your liking, unlike gen 1 whose bases and growths are static. You can have an awful Sophie with Nyx as her mother and bow knight as her class, while you can have a Mozu! Sophie who does whatever she wants and ORKO everything, see where I'm going?

------

Chapter 8 complete, Silas mercenary level 10, Effie archer lv 10 (only knight skills for now, I thought defensive formation or whatever the name is could be useful for an archer, like I saw Takumi in chapter 13 seriously annoy me with it) she has 14 def 16 str 11 spd 14 skl, she got like 4 level ups with 5 stats from the beginning, she would be more viable if she didn't usually roll 2-3 stats per level from 6 to 12 in my usual playthroughs. Archer Mozu lv 4 or 5 (only gave her 1 level in her paralogue since she didn't have access to a 2nd seal at that time, and I did it right when it spawned), lv 9 Arthur, lv 10 Niles, lv 6 Odin, going to class change Arthur and Odin before chap 9.

Like I said, I couldn't end my only attempt at quick draw DLC without loosing several units (actually not less than half of them) so no Point Blank for me. I wasted my money...at least the story was okay.

[starburst]

I do not want to bend your rules. I only mentioned my party as a suggestion, for I had done something similar. Do not worry.
I have some comments, though. (Feel free to ignore them.)
 

2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

[Anna] can be obtained early and cheese the game as a Shiro-like unit in early game.

How can a Level-10 unit with inverse growths "cheese" the game? Anna is always at L10, whether you recruit it at Ch 8 or Ch 26. Not to mention that recruiting her by Chapter 8 or 9 (as implied) is very tricky, for all enemies are Berserkers who one-round her and your units.
If one promotes her instantly, she would start at staff-level E; and even if one used multiple scrolls on her, no advanced staff is available before mid-game.

 

2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

children don't count because they're too customizable. You can also patch up their weaknesses or make them overspecialized at your liking, unlike gen 1 whose bases and growths are static.

Have you ever recruited children early? They join at Level 10, with bare bases, and you cannot "customise" them. Sophie, Soleil and Percy will suck in Magic even if +Mag Cornflakes or Elise were the mamas, and Ophelia would suck in Strength even if Effie married Odin. Aptitude does not change this either.
Nina is the only one who can go physical or magical, and even then she would need as many bonuses as possible.

Again, I do not want to change your rules. This is your challenge. I only mention this because your reasons make no sense at all. But if children are banned, then they are banned; no reasons needed (just like I ban Internet, path bonuses, "backpacks", pre-promotes...)

[mangasdeouf]

7 hours ago, starburst said:

I do not want to bend your rules. I only mentioned my party as a suggestion, for I had done something similar. Do not worry.
I have some comments, though. (Feel free to ignore them.)
 

How can a Level-10 unit with inverse growths "cheese" the game? Anna is always at L10, whether you recruit it at Ch 8 or Ch 26. Not to mention that recruiting her by Chapter 8 or 9 (as implied) is very tricky, for all enemies are Berserkers who one-round her and your units.
If one promotes her instantly, she would start at staff-level E; and even if one used multiple scrolls on her, no advanced staff is available before mid-game.

 

Have you ever recruited children early? They join at Level 10, with bare bases, and you cannot "customise" them. Sophie, Soleil and Percy will suck in Magic even if +Mag Cornflakes or Elise were the mamas, and Ophelia would suck in Strength even if Effie married Odin. Aptitude does not change this either.
Nina is the only one who can go physical or magical, and even then she would need as many bonuses as possible.

Again, I do not want to change your rules. This is your challenge. I only mention this because your reasons make no sense at all. But if children are banned, then they are banned; no reasons needed (just like I ban Internet, path bonuses, "backpacks", pre-promotes...)

Sorry I didn't check Anna, everyone seemed to talk of her as a prepromote so I assumed she was one like in Awakening. In this case, well, if you really want to use her (not only you, but anyone reading this topic), then I guess you can if she's a regular unit not overlevelled.

0 base growth in magic sure makes terrible magic users (even though 25-30 personal growth still leads to some usable magic stat, especially with a bonus to the base stat if the mom has it high enough, it's still not really worse than what Hinoka can do). Maybe you should try Kagero as her mom if you want some real strength growth, she has an insane personal growth (isn't 65 the highest personal str growth in the game? Even with a base of 0, it would mean 32 growth for the child, which is slightly better than Subaki and you could use a class with more than 10% str growth to patch it up, like DF which would put the kid to 47% or vanguard 52%/ ballistician 57% if male, it's kinda gross from 32%, which could also save Subaki himself in case you want to try something new with him, other than oni savage's lack of useful skills for EP before level 35, + heavy blade, yummi).

------

Birthright: Chapter 6 complete, Corrin dark mage lv 10 (skill bought, hoshidan skill +10% activation rate, quixotic, sol, astra), gonna marry Kaden for sweet mage tank with seal magic. Azura (skill bought amaterasu) will marry Jakob for Tactician (light valkyria, her dancer reducing damage skills combined with inspiration = GG), Saizo has too much str+ mag to be used, Hana will pick guardian>onmyoji, if I play Azama he will go onmyoji, Rinkah is lv 9 ninja (since her strength already stinks, might as well stay in a physical class...with low strength growth for balance with other units). Jakob will go tactician (after all, the skills are great), Sakura (skill bought inspiration, amaterasu) lv 4. Kaze still ninja lv 7 (skill bought quick draw + trample to skip the early early game, maybe I'll remove one later).

[JubileePhoenix]

Update, just beat Ch.10, but I had to use Camilla and the other two to do it. Sorry, but yell be bow classes soon. Anyway, I'm just here to say the change made Ch.10 easier, its a lot better to deal with peg.kights when you can just kill then with more than half of your party.  Even Elise can handle them. 

[mangasdeouf]

11 hours ago, JubileePhoenix said:

Update, just beat Ch.10, but I had to use Camilla and the other two to do it. Sorry, but yell be bow classes soon. Anyway, I'm just here to say the change made Ch.10 easier, its a lot better to deal with peg.kights when you can just kill then with more than half of your party.  Even Elise can handle them. 

That's great! well, sometimes this chapter can be a bit** especially with 1 roll RNG that can completely ruin a turn. What class was your Elise in? Who did she befriend/marry do get it?

[JubileePhoenix]

4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

That's great! well, sometimes this chapter can be a bit** especially with 1 roll RNG that can completely ruin a turn. What class was your Elise in? Who did she befriend/marry do get it?

Elise is married to Niles, so she can use staffs, later. Only took 5 damage, didn't get doubled. Strange to have her in the front line like that. Not a lot of damage she can do, but she does enough.

[mangasdeouf]

23 hours ago, JubileePhoenix said:

Elise is married to Niles, so she can use staffs, later. Only took 5 damage, didn't get doubled. Strange to have her in the front line like that. Not a lot of damage she can do, but she does enough.

That's the magic of bows for you! they have 1 damage less than yumi (and no +2 res) but 10 more accuracy soeven Elise can use them, and bow wielding classes have better growths distribution than the trash that healing classes have always suffered from. Literally effective growths vs garbage.

[JubileePhoenix]

Update 2 I beat chapter 24 on my second try, but my godly Peri is dead because I missed clicked her by Hinoka attack range. Its not that i played bad, i just miss clicked at the every end, I had a super blessed run of that chapter too! Mechanist Peri was destroying.....