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Overrated Characters?

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I'm going to agree with those that say Xander. Sure, he's a great unit to throw in there. But on harder modes, he's just... lacking.

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23 hours ago, Etheus said:

Hilda. Even if you give her all of the dexterity boosters in the world, she still can't hit reliably. And I'm judging based on Hard. I can't even imagine how laughable she'd be on Maddening.

Personally, I had her forgo axes because they're too heavy and too unreliable. I much prefer her to use lances and swords. 

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Possibly unpopular opinion, but Nolan is better than Boyd by a country mile. His growths put him in a much better, more rounded spot, and while it takes more work to get him there, he earns his place the entire time by being one of the only consistently durable, viable members of the Dawn Brigade. And being useful in the Dawn Brigade (who suffer the hardest parts of the game) is a huge deal.

 

Boyd, on the other hand, is extremely replaceable by other, better Greil Mercenaries.

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Most Pegasus riders. They can have all the speed and mobility in the world, but that doesn't mean much when I have to give them stronger weapons just to dent the enemy, and they can't always take that many hits in the first place, so relying on dodging is just asking for the RNG to screw you over sometime. That, and archers are pretty common, and Pegasus riders can't always move after attacking in every game, so hit and run tactics aren't always feasible.

I also find Nowi (and to a different extent, Nah) to be overrated in Awakening, due to how reliant she is on her Manakete stat bonuses. Unlike Panne and Yarne, who can live without their Taguel bonuses, if Nowi falls behind, you can't always rely on reclassing to give her the necessary boost to help her catch up. That said, I do understand why people like using her, since she does have high growth rates can can potentially alleviate her lack of a natural promotion.

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I personally don't like Soren in Path of Radiance. His join time is really bad and bases aren't good. He's too fragile and low movement really hurts him. Illyana doesn't have the problem with bad bases but it's still a 5 movement mage with okay stats. Magic is just shit in Tellius games in general not just Radiant Dawn. 

 

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On 10/31/2019 at 1:18 AM, X-Naut said:

Most mage girls. While many of them can become all-killing goddesses the key word is can and they take a lot of investment that's often not worth it.

On the flip side I think mage boys are more overrated. Like the whole early young mage thing is something that works pretty well, but could become insignificant in the late game. For a few example, first there's Erk, who you don't need a whole lot, and later you'll get a much better mage, that is Pent. Asvel is amazing, but later there's a lot of competition - take away the Grafcalibur and he's pretty shaky. Lugh is solid in FE6, but he can get screwed in Mag stat - sure Lilina joins later, but her average Mag stat carries a terrifying power. These are the ones coming from the top of my head, I'm really not feeling their charm.

Also I think all cavalries are getting more praise than they should. I know Canto is great and they have high movement, but I found only a couple of them interesting. Also I didn't do LTC runs.

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2 hours ago, Garlyle said:

On the flip side I think mage boys are more overrated. Like the whole early young mage thing is something that works pretty well, but could become insignificant in the late game. For a few example, first there's Erk, who you don't need a whole lot, and later you'll get a much better mage, that is Pent. Asvel is amazing, but later there's a lot of competition - take away the Grafcalibur and he's pretty shaky. Lugh is solid in FE6, but he can get screwed in Mag stat - sure Lilina joins later, but her average Mag stat carries a terrifying power. These are the ones coming from the top of my head, I'm really not feeling their charm.

Also I think all cavalries are getting more praise than they should. I know Canto is great and they have high movement, but I found only a couple of them interesting. Also I didn't do LTC runs.

I think Asvel is without a doubt the best mage in Thracia even if he gets a bit Magic Screwed, because his tome is so powerful and is available for most of the game, and you can even save uses thanks to the easy crits that kill almost everything in the game that isn't a Bishop.

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On 10/30/2019 at 3:56 PM, Kruggov said:

Warp is not the only reason she's liked, she also gets THREE effective spells (Dark Spikes vs cavalry, Seraphim vs monsters, Luna might as well be effective against high res units like mages or pegasi), and she also has multiple nukes to call upon (Hades and Abraxas). Plus Mastermind means she doesn't have to spend most of the game getting those ranks (only about half of it 🙂). She has her flaws (no 1-3 range without a staff, Warlock is useless to her, squishy as hell), but she IS one of the top mages in the game.

I dunno about you, but when I see people saying she should monopolize Thyrsus AND every magic booster in the game, that does NOT do her any favours - it only convinces me that she cannot be as good as they're claiming. Also, Luna and Hades have iffy accuracy - a nuke doesn't do you a lick of good if you miss.

2 hours ago, Garlyle said:

On the flip side I think mage boys are more overrated. Like the whole early young mage thing is something that works pretty well, but could become insignificant in the late game. For a few example, first there's Erk, who you don't need a whole lot, and later you'll get a much better mage, that is Pent. Asvel is amazing, but later there's a lot of competition - take away the Grafcalibur and he's pretty shaky. Lugh is solid in FE6, but he can get screwed in Mag stat - sure Lilina joins later, but her average Mag stat carries a terrifying power. These are the ones coming from the top of my head, I'm really not feeling their charm.

I think Erk isn't that bad - sure, Pent is better, but it's not like you need stats on his level to dominate, considering that FE7 enemies are weaksauce. There's also the fact that Pent doesn't come until much, MUCH later.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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38 minutes ago, Etheus said:

IMO, Erk isn't even close to being bad. But he does compare unfavorably to an orbital nuke who happens to be available at the same time - Lucius.

8/0 (let's pretend they both left Lyn Mode at this level- the same as base Canas) :

HP/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res (always rounding down)

Lucius: 20/10/8/12/3/1/9

Erk: 21/7/8/10/5/3/6

 

15/0:

Lucius: 26/14/12/14/4/2/13

Erk: 26/10/11/14/7/4/9

 

Weapons:

Lightning: 4 Mt 95 Hit 5 Crt 6 Wt (0 AS loss)

Shine: 6 Mt 90 Hit 8 Crt 8 Wt (2 AS loss)

Fire: 5 Mt 90 Hit 0 Crt 4 Wt (0 AS loss)

Thunder: 8 Mt 80 Hit 5 Crt 6 Wt (1 AS loss)

 

So from the very start, if Erk can afford to lose 1 AS and deal with 15 less Hit (no biggie barring terrain bonuses), Thunder lets him outdo Lucius with Lightning in terms of damage by 1 point, as Shine isn't unavailable until much later. Even by 15, this tradeoff remains consistent. And once both are 20/1 promoted, I don't think they need comparison, because both should roast everything in sight. Lucius could do it with a C Staff rank though that could quickly go Physics.

 

On 11/3/2019 at 1:37 AM, PPPPPPP270 said:

I personally don't like Soren in Path of Radiance. His join time is really bad and bases aren't good. He's too fragile and low movement really hurts him. Illyana doesn't have the problem with bad bases but it's still a 5 movement mage with okay stats. Magic is just shit in Tellius games in general not just Radiant Dawn. 

I'll concur on the point that magic is bad in PoR. It just doesn't have that raw power it does in other games, although RD is still rock bottom for mages.

As for Soren versus Ilyana, personal bias leads me to usually train him and BEXP is always an excuse for a low starting level. Although statistically:

The Great Mage Debate: Path of Radiance: Soren v. Ilyana v. Tormod v. Calill v. Bastian (also v. Rhys and v. Mist)

  • Stats (.5 or higher rounded up, .4 or lower rounded down) (HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Luk/Def/Res)
    • 20/10 Stats (and Bastian’s lvl 13 bases):
      • Soren: 35/3/24/25/21/13/8/24
      • Ilyana: 34/9/21/22/18/16/8/24
      • Tormod: 35/8/21/20/21/16/12/21
      • Calill: 34/9/21/20/20/17/10/18
      • Bastian: 35/12/19/21/16/15/12/20
      • (Rhys: 35/3/28/22/17/20/9/28)
      • (Mist: 33/13/22/12/21/23/9/20)
    • 20/20 Stats:
      • Soren: 39/4/30/28/25/16/10/28
      • Ilyana: 39/11/26/27/21/21/10/28
      • Tormod: 40/10/25/24/25/19/14/25
      • Calill: 39/12/25/24/24/20/14/22
      • Bastian: 39/15/24/26/20/17/14/24
      • (Rhys: 39/3/29/22/21/25/11/30)
      • (Mist: 38/16/26/15/25/29/11/24)

 

You'll notice Soren always has the slight lead in offense vs. Ilyana (even slightly more with Adept). Though he needs forged Thunder to avoid the AS loss of Elthunder that Ilyana does not suffer from, if Soren uses Elthunder, that AS lead goes poof.

And what this really shows is how samey Sages actually are in PoR. Why do all of them have 38-40 HP on average?

 

 

As for Lugh vs. Lilina, I'd say they're in principle balanced. I only played FE6 once on Normal with a blessed Banana Boy, so I don't actually know how balanced they are. Hard Mode I guess depends on whether Lugh's AS is enough to double consistently. Fire has 95 Hit and only 1 Mt less than Thunder, so I can't see Lilina's low Skl running into hitting issues- she is very thankful she isn't using a magical Steel Lance/Axe.

For SoV, Delthea has awesome growths and spells, but no 1-3 spells and a late join time really hurt her I can tell. And yet, Luthier has issues doubling Knights/Barons and horrible spell selection, so I can't tell who is worse (or rather, both are "efficiently" terrible, and Delthea is inefficiently better). Although Boey is atrocious compared to Mae, that is certain.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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On 10/30/2019 at 11:12 PM, Benice said:

Reinhardt in heroes. Dance Ishtar is infinitely superior and is a dance unit. In general, reinhardt isn't that good. 

Eirika from SS. Nobody says she's great, but in one level up, seth gained more stats than Eirika did in 4 (seth gaining str, spd, skill, def, res, lck, eirika gaining 1 lck, 2 skl.)

Eir in heroes.

Legend Ike also in neroes.

Not saying Eirika is the best unit ever but that's a really shitty arguement and a bad comparison. Personal experience means crap. You could have 90% growths in every stat and still not get any stat ups for 10 levels. Comparing Eirika to Seth is also really unfair, especially since they have different roles. EVERYONE is meh compared to Seth, so saying someone is worse than seth doesn't make them overrated. 

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On 11/11/2019 at 4:14 AM, Garlyle said:

On the flip side I think mage boys are more overrated. Like the whole early young mage thing is something that works pretty well, but could become insignificant in the late game. For a few example, first there's Erk, who you don't need a whole lot, and later you'll get a much better mage, that is Pent. Asvel is amazing, but later there's a lot of competition - take away the Grafcalibur and he's pretty shaky. Lugh is solid in FE6, but he can get screwed in Mag stat - sure Lilina joins later, but her average Mag stat carries a terrifying power. These are the ones coming from the top of my head, I'm really not feeling their charm.

Also I think all cavalries are getting more praise than they should. I know Canto is great and they have high movement, but I found only a couple of them interesting. Also I didn't do LTC runs.

Disagree with Asvel being overrated.

Grafcalibur is what makes Asvel amazing (in addition to Sage being broken and him being the earliest available mage that can promote around Chapter (Eight) 😎and allows him to be the best boss killer in the game due to low weight, high accuracy, crit, and might. No one else can use Grafcalibur anyways so saying if you take away Grafcalibur he's shaky is weird. Wind tomes in general are pretty scarce (iirc you only get one for free by capturing) and you only get one until they are available in the shop in Linoan's promo chapter. Even then Asvel can doubles and take most enemies (besides Bishops usually and Reinhardt) with Fire since enemies are weak in FE5 and have low Res (shouldn't be spamming Grafcalibur unless you need to outside Manster arc). His only competition is Sara just because of her high staff rank so she can use Warp, Rescue and Rewarp but she joins late.span widget

Edited by Lunarly

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On 10/28/2019 at 9:06 AM, Fire Brand said:

I feel this is definitely the time to bring up Nephenee. Everyone raves about her, but her performance is pretty mediocre in RD, and awful in PoR.

PoR doesn't need much explanation so I'll talk about RD. She barely damages enemies and contributes less than most units in part 2, with the only exceptions being Astrid and Lethe. Then in part 3, she's outclassed by most GMs. Her combat isn't good until tier 3, and that requires considerable effort to reach, especially when you have far better units who could use that experience, such as Boyd, Mia, etc. 

In what way? The only thing I can think of is that she's a little under-leveled when you recruit her. Other than that, she has solid base stats, solid growths, and lances are a pretty good weapon type in PoR. I'm not saying that her strengths as unit aren't exaggerated by some; I'm just saying that "awful" or even "mediocre" are a bit of an overcorrection, at least for PoR. 

 

On 10/30/2019 at 5:11 AM, Lunarly said:

Ike (FE9) - Seen the fun old Kieran vs. Ike debate where having OVERKILL DAMAGE is better than having enough damage to KO enemies + a horse apparently. Anyways, Ike is good early due to the influx of Brigand/Axe enemy units but, once you start fighting Daein forces, tankier Lance wielding enemies (Cavs and Knights) become a lot more common. Being swordlocked is also a curse in this game on top of having a decently late promo, he really only becomes OP once he gets Ragnell/Wrath+Resolve which is pretty late in the game.

Boyd - Never been a fan of him tbh, I find him pretty overrated overall (moreso in RD). In PoR he's the best infantry unit but, that's not really saying much considering the game is mounted emblem + 1 mage + Ike. I find that if a unit has to monopolize every Speedwing and Secret Book in the game, maybe the unit probably isn't as good as they claim? He's definitely good in PoR but, I found his usefulness wane further into the game. Now RD is where I find him the most overrated, he's often seen as better than Nolan (looking at vanilla game, no transfers) but, Nolan has Tavros (which is better than Urvan, even then Urvan should go to Jill) and better speed. Boyd's base speed isn't that good, and it doesn't help that his speed growth isn't great either and speed is pretty huge in both Tellius games.

Nephenee (FE10) - I love my bbgirl but I mean, her join weapon weighs her down which is a preeetty big problem for a unit who's strength is in their speed stat. You either risk getting weighed down with great lances or use regular lances and risk having just a low str stat. In PoR she's just bad, having E lances is pretty terrible even though her bases are ok. Doesn't help Kieran joins at the same time as her, and Jill follows up soon enough and they are better candidates for just general exp (both kills and BEXP).

Ike: I keep hearing people say being swordlocked is bad in POR. I've replayed Path of Radiance more times than I can remember due to it being my favourite FE game, I've used almost every character at least once, and at no point do I recall Ike or any of my swordsmen being at a significant disadvantage. Sure, being locked into a range of 1 can limit Ike's options compared to someone who can also carry a hand axe. But, honestly, having 1-2 range is more often an add-on than something necessary anyways, and this is the game where everyone automatically has shove. As for tankier lance-wielding enemies becoming more common, that happens right around the time you get your first Iron Blade, and Ike's good strength growth means he can usually use it right away with little-to-no reduction in speed. 

Boyd: I mainly agree about Radiant Dawn (though Urvan should go to Haar). I disagree about Path of Radiance. How does he have to monopolize every speedwing and secret book? I give my secret books to Mist so she can use magic swords, and Boyd definitely never needed a speedwing in any of my playthroughs. Axes and bows are a fantastic duo in Path of Radiance and, combined with Boyd's high strength, enable him to defeat a lot of the game's enemies. For me, his usefulness grew later into the game, as I found him actually less useful early on. 

Also, how is Path of Radiance "Mounted Emblem + 1 Mage + Ike"? I actually consider PoR possibly the best FE game in terms of encouraging using a variety of different unit types. Sure, the game gives the player a lot of mounted units, but the large number of indoor chapters and chokepoints, two ship chapters, the desert chapter, the 4-part swamp chapter, etc., all encourage using a variety of units. In my playthroughs, I usually ended up using 5 mounted units (including fliers) at most, at least 1 laguz, and the rest bing different Beorc infantry. 

Nephenee: You say FE10, yet you talk about her being bad in Path of Radiance? I'm confused. Thank you for giving reasons. I agree that starting with E rank in lances is bad, though she's far from the only unit to start with E-rank (and it's bad for all of them). 

 

Anyway, here are my overrated units: 

…I can't think of any right now; I'll fill this in later. 

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41 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

In what way? The only thing I can think of is that she's a little under-leveled when you recruit her. Other than that, she has solid base stats, solid growths, and lances are a pretty good weapon type in PoR. I'm not saying that her strengths as unit aren't exaggerated by some; I'm just saying that "awful" or even "mediocre" are a bit of an overcorrection, at least for PoR. 

 

Ike: I keep hearing people say being swordlocked is bad in POR. I've replayed Path of Radiance more times than I can remember due to it being my favourite FE game, I've used almost every character at least once, and at no point do I recall Ike or any of my swordsmen being at a significant disadvantage. Sure, being locked into a range of 1 can limit Ike's options compared to someone who can also carry a hand axe. But, honestly, having 1-2 range is more often an add-on than something necessary anyways, and this is the game where everyone automatically has shove. As for tankier lance-wielding enemies becoming more common, that happens right around the time you get your first Iron Blade, and Ike's good strength growth means he can usually use it right away with little-to-no reduction in speed. 

Boyd: I mainly agree about Radiant Dawn (though Urvan should go to Haar). I disagree about Path of Radiance. How does he have to monopolize every speedwing and secret book? I give my secret books to Mist so she can use magic swords, and Boyd definitely never needed a speedwing in any of my playthroughs. Axes and bows are a fantastic duo in Path of Radiance and, combined with Boyd's high strength, enable him to defeat a lot of the game's enemies. For me, his usefulness grew later into the game, as I found him actually less useful early on. 

Also, how is Path of Radiance "Mounted Emblem + 1 Mage + Ike"? I actually consider PoR possibly the best FE game in terms of encouraging using a variety of different unit types. Sure, the game gives the player a lot of mounted units, but the large number of indoor chapters and chokepoints, two ship chapters, the desert chapter, the 4-part swamp chapter, etc., all encourage using a variety of units. In my playthroughs, I usually ended up using 5 mounted units (including fliers) at most, at least 1 laguz, and the rest bing different Beorc infantry. 

Nephenee: You say FE10, yet you talk about her being bad in Path of Radiance? I'm confused. Thank you for giving reasons. I agree that starting with E rank in lances is bad, though she's far from the only unit to start with E-rank (and it's bad for all of them). 

 

Anyway, here are my overrated units: 

…I can't think of any right now; I'll fill this in later. 

Path of Radiance is mounted emblem because maps are large and open. The indoor map penalty is a Radiant Dawn thing so the large number of indoor maps (there's literally 2 anyways, Mia's join chapter and Oliver's chapter), the only chapter that punishes horses is the boulder chapter, desert chapter (which you can just end by defeating Muarim with a flier and you get BEXP for leaving Laguz alive) and the swamp chapter (even then there are 2 swamp portions, 1 of them being a defend map). 1 Mage is usually Soren/Ilyana because of Rescue and Ike is a forced deploy. I mean cool, you used many infantry units and beat the game, doesn't really change that the best units in the game are generally going to be mounted (also PoR isn't exactly a hard game either). 

Ike - Being swordlocked is bad because you are losing every weapon triangle match up because majority of the enemies in PoR are Lance units. Also not sure why you are trying to fight Cav/Knights with an Iron Blade on Ike when the Regal Sword exists. Iron Blade certainly doesn't make Ike or Mia any better at dealing with armored or cavalier units either, not sure why you brought up the doubling issue since it's common knowledge Ike and Mia are speedy units in PoR. The benefits of an Axe isn't because they have 1-2 options, it's literally because majority of the enemies in the game wield lances (Knights, Cavaliers, Soldiers are incredibly common, Wyvern Riders are more common later on in the game) which means anyone with an Axe will have the weapon triangle advantage over majority of the enemy units in the game, which does sort of fix the accuracy issue of axes. 

Boyd - That just means your Boyd didn't get speed screwed. He has low base speed (weighed down further by axes) and a mediocre speed growth which makes him prone to be Speed screwed, which means you generally need to give him your speed wings so he doesn't fall behind. Don't know why you need to give Secret Books to Mist since she doesn't have any hit issues (don't know what that has to do with a Sonic Sword since Mist doesn't have hit issues with that either), whereas Boyd does because his base skill is low and axes are generally inaccurate. Never said Axes were bad, Boyd having Bows is irrelevant since he promotes with E-Rank bows (when he can use a Tomohawk or Short Axe if he wants range and not risk getting free hits from the enemy). 

Nephenee - I did talk about her in FE10 hence, "her join weapon..." since she doesn't have a join weapon in FE9 (I mean since you played FE9 soooo many times it should be common knowledge) and I also used the "In PoR..." after I talked about the first part on why I think she's overrated in FE10. I mean I only added the 2nd part to prevent anyone for assuming I thought Nephenee was overrated in FE10 but good in FE9.

 

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3 minutes ago, Lunarly said:

Path of Radiance is mounted emblem because maps are large and open. The indoor map penalty is a Radiant Dawn thing so the large number of indoor maps (there's literally 2 anyways, Mia's join chapter and Oliver's chapter), the only chapter that punishes horses is the boulder chapter, desert chapter (which you can just end by defeating Muarim with a flier and you get BEXP for leaving Laguz alive) and the swamp chapter (even then there are 2 swamp portions, 1 of them being a defend map). 1 Mage is usually Soren/Ilyana because of Rescue and Ike is a forced deploy. I mean cool, you used many infantry units and beat the game, doesn't really change that the best units in the game are generally going to be mounted (also PoR isn't exactly a hard game either). 

The maps aren't that big, and they're often not that open. If you're talking about the cut to movement, the indoor map penalty is in Path of Radiance too, and there are more indoor maps than that: there's also the Black Knight fight chapter, the Daein Capital chapter, the Temple chapter where the bad mercenaries are holding the priests hostage, and the prison chapter, and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. 

 

15 minutes ago, Lunarly said:

Ike - Being swordlocked is bad because you are losing every weapon triangle match up because majority of the enemies in PoR are Lance units. Also not sure why you are trying to fight Cav/Knights with an Iron Blade on Ike when the Regal Sword exists. Iron Blade certainly doesn't make Ike or Mia any better at dealing with armored or cavalier units either, not sure why you brought up the doubling issue since it's common knowledge Ike and Mia are speedy units in PoR. The benefits of an Axe isn't because they have 1-2 options, it's literally because majority of the enemies in the game wield lances (Knights, Cavaliers, Soldiers are incredibly common, Wyvern Riders are more common later on in the game) which means anyone with an Axe will have the weapon triangle advantage over majority of the enemy units in the game, which does sort of fix the accuracy issue of axes. 

Yeah; the Iron Blade thing was silly. I was remembering my first playthrough where I tried to save the regal sword for special occasions as I didn't want to waste it. On subsequent playthroughs, I barely ever used the iron blade. Thanks. 

I agree about the weapon triangle, but it really isn't a huge disadvantage. 

 

21 minutes ago, Lunarly said:

Boyd - That just means your Boyd didn't get speed screwed. He has low base speed (weighed down further by axes) and a mediocre speed growth which makes him prone to be Speed screwed, which means you generally need to give him your speed wings so he doesn't fall behind. Don't know why you need to give Secret Books to Mist since she doesn't have any hit issues (don't know what that has to do with a Sonic Sword since Mist doesn't have hit issues with that either), whereas Boyd does because his base skill is low and axes are generally inaccurate. Never said Axes were bad, Boyd having Bows is irrelevant since he promotes with E-Rank bows (when he can use a Tomahawk or Short Axe if he wants range and not risk getting free hits from the enemy). 

Oh sorry; it's been so long since I played the game my mind thought "arms scroll" for some reason. Again, thank you. This might in part be due to my mind focusing mostly on my test tomorrow. That (the secret book) I did sometimes need to give Boyd, though not too often actually as he has high enough strength growth that he can survive for a while with the lower-might axes, and once he gets access to bows he's more accurate (that's one of the two reasons I brought up bows; the other being enemy flying units like the ravens and wyvern riders in the chapters spent in Daein; I definitely give him a tomahawk or short axe for dealing with regular enemies from a distance). 

I never said that you said axes were bad. In fact, I agree that axes are pretty good in Path of Radiance. 

As for "mediocre speed growth", his speed growth is 45; the same as Oscar and Jill; both of whom never ended up speed-screwed for me either. It's definitely not a great speed growth, but it's serviceable. And, since this is "mounted emblem", I already mentioned Jill and Oscar, Kieran's speed growth is 40, Haar's is 35 (he's still a good unit), and Titania's and Makalov's are 50. I know I didn't mention everyone, but Boyd is clearly far from the worst of these in terms of speed growth. 

 

28 minutes ago, Lunarly said:

Nephenee - I did talk about her in FE10 hence, "her join weapon..." since she doesn't have a join weapon in FE9 (I mean since you played FE9 soooo many times it should be common knowledge) and I also used the "In PoR..." after I talked about the first part on why I think she's overrated in FE10. I mean I only added the 2nd part to prevent anyone for assuming I thought Nephenee was overrated in FE10 but good in FE9.

Ah. Yes, I'm aware that she doesn't have a join weapon in Path of Radiance; I was just confused by the wording (communication is not a strong point of mine due to my high-functioning autism). Thanks for the clarification. 

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Quote

I know I didn't mention everyone, but Boyd is clearly far from the worst of these in terms of speed growth. 

Most of the units you mentioned can get a Knight Ward to boost their speed growth, and they have better bases. Not that I disagree with the general sentiment; there are a lot of tools available to fix Boyd's speed if it becomes a problem, and the Speedwing is not a very valuable resource in FE9 given that most of the good units have no problems doubling.

Quote

The maps aren't that big, and they're often not that open. If you're talking about the cut to movement, the indoor map penalty is in Path of Radiance too, and there are more indoor maps than that: there's also the Black Knight fight chapter, the Daein Capital chapter, the Temple chapter where the bad mercenaries are holding the priests hostage, and the prison chapter, and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. 

I don't remember if there actually is a penalty for mounted units indoors. If there is mounted units still have more move than Boyd does, so they will be setting the pace more often than not.

Quote

The benefits of an Axe isn't because they have 1-2 options, it's literally because majority of the enemies in the game wield lances (Knights, Cavaliers, Soldiers are incredibly common, Wyvern Riders are more common later on in the game) which means anyone with an Axe will have the weapon triangle advantage over majority of the enemy units in the game, which does sort of fix the accuracy issue of axes. 

You don't mention that Steel Swords have -3 Mt compared to Steel Axes. It's more of an issue than WTD. Not having 1-2 range is also quite a big deal; it's more important than WTA is in this game anyway.

Edited by samthedigital

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

If you're talking about the cut to movement, the indoor map penalty is in Path of Radiance too

No, there isn't. I'm certain of this. This becomes kind of significant in Chapter 16, which does favor cavalry with the big and empty opening stretch.

 

As for the usual size of maps, FE9 always felt a little smaller than GBA FE. I'm sure it is compared to Binding, but in retrospect, I question its size compared to Blazing and Sacred. -I need to count squares.

"Big" maps favoring cavalry has almost always been an issue in FE. Cavalry and fliers have usually done a fine job of trouncing everything between themselves and the end goal just as much anything good unmounted. And if you LTC or the like, you WILL find out how to make high move units as busted as possible, and because the game at all lets you make them strong enough to conquer all, you will.

Yes, PoR brought back full-powered Canto/Move Again, but 3, 6, 7, and 8 all had dominant mounties without that version of Canto. There were good infantries in all of these games- Ogma/Navarre, Dieck, Raven, Gerik; but Cain/Abel/Hardin & Palla/Catria, Alan/Lance/Perceval/Melady, Marcus/Sain/Kent, and Seth/Franz have all existed too.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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Yes, PoR brought back full-powered Canto/Move Again, but 3, 6, 7, and 8 all had dominant mounties without that version of Canto.

The problem with PoR is that we don't really need anything besides mounted units and Ike. Staff support is necessary for efficient play in all of the games you listed, and infantry units are important for at least some of them. Boyd and Nephenee are the only two infantry type combat units in PoR that are actually decent (besides Ike), and while they aren't exactly bad they don't really have a lot going for them given that there are so many mounted units that can perform the same combat related tasks.

It's kind of hard for a unit to be overrated if they have staff utility, high movement, or amazing combat. PoR is one of the only exceptions because staff utility is close to worthless, and a lot of characters have one rounding potential.

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Canas, unless you skip Lyn Mode Lucius and Erk will always be the superior choice but people overrate this dude to no hell just because he can use the Luna tome.

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11 hours ago, Lunarly said:

Disagree with Asvel being overrated.

Grafcalibur is what makes Asvel amazing (in addition to Sage being broken and him being the earliest available mage that can promote around Chapter (Eight) 😎and allows him to be the best boss killer in the game due to low weight, high accuracy, crit, and might. No one else can use Grafcalibur anyways so saying if you take away Grafcalibur he's shaky is weird. Wind tomes in general are pretty scarce (iirc you only get one for free by capturing) and you only get one until they are available in the shop in Linoan's promo chapter. Even then Asvel can doubles and take most enemies (besides Bishops usually and Reinhardt) with Fire since enemies are weak in FE5 and have low Res (shouldn't be spamming Grafcalibur unless you need to outside Manster arc). His only competition is Sara just because of her high staff rank so she can use Warp, Rescue and Rewarp but she joins late.span widget

Well, staves are broken op in Thracia. Asvel is indeed powerful, but I think a lot of mages are also powerful. Olwen/Ilios is a pick your mounted mage, I prefer Olwen for her brave effect. Linoan will cap her stats before you know it, and her Nosferatu tome is a safe bet(not to mention she starts with C staves). Ced is an overpowered Asvel from the beginning with a tome even more powerful than Grafcalibur. But I think in general only Miranda has a bad reputation from Thracia mages.

Edited by Garlyle

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Asvel is indeed powerful, but I think a lot of mages are also powerful.

This doesn't make him any worse.  He's also the only competent magic user for quite a while, and that helps a lot too.

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10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

No, there isn't. I'm certain of this. This becomes kind of significant in Chapter 16, which does favor cavalry with the big and empty opening stretch.

I could've sworn; I distinctly remember Jill at least getting her movement cut by 2 in chapter 21: Without a King. Am I misremembering? Am I correct, but it only applied to flying units?

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I’m going to have to say Mia.

Never understood why she’s such a favorite in Path of Radiance. Exceedingly difficult to train and frustrating to use.

From a character standpoint, she doesn’t have a lot going on.

I can only conclude she’s popular because pretty and even then, come on! Even in her own title there are girls way cuter than her! (Points at Nephenee, Elimcia, and Cahill)

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26 minutes ago, Dr. C said:

I’m going to have to say Mia.

Never understood why she’s such a favorite in Path of Radiance. Exceedingly difficult to train and frustrating to use.

From a character standpoint, she doesn’t have a lot going on.

I can only conclude she’s popular because pretty and even then, come on! Even in her own title there are girls way cuter than her! (Points at Nephenee, Elimcia, and Cahill)

I do not think that any of those three are cuter than Mia. (Okay, maybe Nephenee).

 

Now Lucia and Astrid, on the other hand, are hella fine.

 

 

As for her performance as a unit, yes, she's overrated in Path of Radiance (though she's actually quite the beast in Radiant Dawn). But then, swordmasters in general seem to skew far more positively with general players than their actual performance should allow. 

Edited by Etheus

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39 minutes ago, Etheus said:

As for her performance as a unit, yes, she's overrated in Path of Radiance (though she's actually quite the beast in Radiant Dawn). But then, swordmasters in general seem to skew far more positively with general players than their actual performance should allow. 

RD was particularly nice to SMs via a tiny bit of endgame liking their extra Spd, and buyable physical Wind Edges solving Swordlock.

As for the general audience liking SMs, it's a combination of:

  • Don't play "efficiently"/LTC so turn counts = "who cares?" and Move is therefore not so important.
  • Same "who cares" means the Swordlock isn't a problem in the games where it is one.
  • A lack of concern about consistency, so the "high" yet still only 20-60 at most Crit rates are awesome. When for more "advanced" players outside of FE6 and RNG rigging, those Crit rates are only okay because they're still too unreliable.
  • Defensively, the dodgetankiness of SMs is loved more because here too, because there is less concern about consistency? And when you playing less efficiently, it becomes easier to build up dodgetankiness? -I'm less sure of this reason.

 

"Performance" at the end of the day is: consistency, speed, and as few "unwise" investments as possible to allow for "wise" investment of resources in other units. Performance assumes averages, performance assumes no biases against any unit's personality and character. They're the criterion of an elite, if sincerely benevolently intended to help guide the masses as well.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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