Would crit+20 help mortal savant?

[UNLEASH IT]

Dark Knight is good though. But I'm not sure if that counts as a hybrid class or if it's just a way for Warlocks to get a horse. The bases and growths definitely lean towards the latter

[Fire Flower]

3 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Dark Knight is good though. But I'm not sure if that counts as a hybrid class or if it's just a way for Warlocks to get a horse. The bases and growths definitely lean towards the latter

To me, Dark Knight is more like putting Warlocks on a horse, rather than giving Paladins magic. In the same vein, Mortal Savant feels more like giving Warlocks a sword, rather than giving Swordmasters magic.

Holy Knight, on the other hand, feels more like putting Enlightened One on a horse, rather than Bishop.

[salinea]

6 hours ago, Fire Flower said:

Holy Knight, on the other hand, feels more like putting Enlightened One on a horse, rather than Bishop.

Holy Knight could have been the one with the "giving Paladins magic" vibe. Give it Lancefaire instead/in addition to the mostly useless White Tomefaire and change the reqs so that Lance is higher than the White Magic one.

[Flere210]

The problem of Holy Knight is that is overbalanced. They did not want it to be just better than bishop, so they traded their best support features for mobility, but in doing so they made a class whose only advantage over dark knight is not having to increase reason, wich many mages would do anyway.

I still consider it better than MS because at least is handy for using rescue or it may be good for nostanking if an unit that can pull it off exist(byleth seems the only candidate and have many options). For mortal savant to be better than assassin or dark knight you need to basically build Marianne for it.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Crit+20 would help any class, it's a very good skill. TBH I kinda feel like they should have made the weapon-linked crit skills give +20 (so Sword Crit+20) on Swordmasters, and make the general one (like on War Masters) just be Crit+10. But whatever.

As for Mortal Savant, I would have them basically switch speed stats (and modifiers, and growths) with Wyvern Lords. Keep Swordfaire, expand "Black Tomefaire" into "Reasonfaire" (you're welcome, Lysithea), and get Ragnarok as a skill so even units with super-limited spell lists (*cough* Felix) have some strong options (also give Warlocks Bolganone, but that's its own thing). Although I could see Crit+20 instead of Ragnarok, that would probably be better overall.

[Ivan Tridelan]

Black/Dark Tomefaire should have been Reasonfaire from the start, honestly. Warlock should be the natural path for both Lysithea and Hubert but it doesn't help them at all (and Lysithea can't access Dark Bishop).

 

On topic, MS needs better speed (should be comparable to SM/Assassin) and Crit +20 would actually let it be a continuation of SM (improved crit bonus, plus magic and a tomefaire to help with the damage would make it a straight upgrade, or a side-grade of Assassin, trading bows for magic and crit)

[Dark Holy Elf]

21 hours ago, Ivan Tridelan said:

On topic, MS needs better speed (should be comparable to SM/Assassin) and Crit +20 would actually let it be a continuation of SM (improved crit bonus, plus magic and a tomefaire to help with the damage would make it a straight upgrade, or a side-grade of Assassin, trading bows for magic and crit)

Would you give Assassin Bowfaire? Because as is there's no trade involved, MS can use bows just as well as Assassin can.

Master classes (Wyvern Lord aside) are generally sidegrades rather than upgrades, your proposed version of MS just renders the two Advanced tier sword classes (three, really, but nobody cares about Hero) obsolete.

[Ivan Tridelan]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:04 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Would you give Assassin Bowfaire? Because as is there's no trade involved, MS can use bows just as well as Assassin can.

Master classes (Wyvern Lord aside) are generally sidegrades rather than upgrades, your proposed version of MS just renders the two Advanced tier sword classes (three, really, but nobody cares about Hero) obsolete.

Assassin has Stealth and Lockpick so there IS a trade there, not that it's a big one or anything.

I also outright stated that my proposed version of MS would be a direct upgrade of SM. As for Assassin, well, not sure honestly. I'm largely against Master class being mere side-grades considering level requirement alone means you get little playtime with them. WL and FK are direct upgrades, and I'd say BK is one as well (unless your Speed is crap but your Strength is high enough for Hunter's Volley to ORKO). DK is technically a sidegrade but in actual practice is an upgrade in pretty much every meaningful way, same for GK. HK should have had the Heal + skill since Terrain Resistance is meh and White Tomefaire is even crappier, making it a Bishop with more mobility. WM is a superior Grappler that gave up terrain movement ignoring.

TLDR, the Master classes are ludicrously lopsided with WL and BK being OP, FK being good if you can't make it to WL, Gremory or Dark Knight for the mages and everything else is garbage (OK WM is decent and its Mastery skill is great, but its strengths are all 1-range in a game where bows and magic are everywhere)

[Shadow Mir]

On 11/3/2019 at 9:06 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

On non-Crimson Flower there should definitely be enough time to get Manuela to A Reason well before the game ends. There are ~12 chapters to tutor and it thus it only takes 110 WExp per chapter, easily doable even on Maddening and without a Knowledge Gem (it helps that the only other two skills Manuela really needs for this build, Sword and Faith, are ones she works on before joining anyway). CF would make it tougher for sure.

One of those two spells is Thoron, which helps, and he does get both Recover and Restore. He loses 3 speed coming from Assassin, but gains 2 def / 2 res / 1 HP / 1 str, so it's hardly a straight loss. (Compared to Swordmaster, well, he gains 1 move, I don't think much else need be said.)

That said I agree with you that MS is not a great choice for him anyway. He's a physical unit with strength in bows and no weaknesses for the most dominant physical classes (Wyvern and Bow Knight) so he should probably end up in one of those.

I still think having to actively invest in a weakness just for Bolting is questionable, to be frank. Especially since some chapters have only 1 or two tutoring sessions.

Thoron has all of four uses. And I'm not sure the marginal statistical boosts outweigh the speed loss (and if coming from Assassin, the mobility loss, considering that Assassins only use 1 move going through forests and thickets).

[CyberNinja]

12 hours ago, Ivan Tridelan said:

TLDR, the Master classes are ludicrously lopsided with WL and BK being OP, FK being good if you can't make it to WL, Gremory or Dark Knight for the mages and everything else is garbage (OK WM is decent and its Mastery skill is great, but its strengths are all 1-range in a game where bows and magic are everywhere)

Would it have been better if the classes were redesigned as direct upgrades?

Armor line > Fortress > Great Knight

Cavalier > Paladin > Great Knight/New class?

Thief/Mercenary > Assassin/Hero > Swordmaster (master class now?)

Brigand/Brawler > Grappler/Warrior > War Master

Dark/Mage > Dark Bishop/Warlock > Dark Knight

Priest > Bishop > Holy Knight

Archer > Sniper > Bow Knight

Peg/Wyv(make noth advanced class?) > Falcon/Wyv!Lord

The Gremory, Mortal Savant, and DLC classes could then be retooled into true alts/hybrids?

[Ivan Tridelan]

11 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

Would it have been better if the classes were redesigned as direct upgrades?

Armor line > Fortress > Great Knight

Cavalier > Paladin > Great Knight/New class?

Thief/Mercenary > Assassin/Hero > Swordmaster (master class now?)

Brigand/Brawler > Grappler/Warrior > War Master

Dark/Mage > Dark Bishop/Warlock > Dark Knight

Priest > Bishop > Holy Knight

Archer > Sniper > Bow Knight

Peg/Wyv(make noth advanced class?) > Falcon/Wyv!Lord

The Gremory, Mortal Savant, and DLC classes could then be retooled into true alts/hybrids?

Honestly? Yes. I like your setup a lot better. I was merely trying to adjust MS and HK, the worst master classes, within the context of the current system.

[paladin21]

On 11/9/2019 at 6:04 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Would you give Assassin Bowfaire? Because as is there's no trade involved, MS can use bows just as well as Assassin can.

Master classes (Wyvern Lord aside) are generally sidegrades rather than upgrades, your proposed version of MS just renders the two Advanced tier sword classes (three, really, but nobody cares about Hero) obsolete.

Hero and warrior should have arts like the other infantry physical units. Something like Aether for the hero and Eclipse for the warrior would have made some people think they were worth using. They are lacking in skills of compared to other advanced or master classes.

For the hero, vantage is not enough to make up for the speed difference with the other two classes or the lack of magic. If it had something like a built-in steady stance (or steady breath) from FEH, his overall usefulness would rise as an enemy phase class. I hate the way this class is nerfed, since I always liked it, and it has a nice model attached to it (unlike grappler, thank Sothis now I can use other models for that class). If in DLC4 you could use any model from unlocked classes as the monastery look, I'd probably use it for M!Byleth.

[MasterSlayerX]

Mortal Servant should get the ability Ignus as it’s 3rd ability where it can use half of the users magic in a melee attack or half of the users strength in a magic attack . It takes 3-5 uses of the item per use kind of like how Astra works just getting it as soon as you reclass and only usable by Mortal Servant 

[paladin21]

I mentioned it in another post, but I think dual weapon classes should have a unique dual weapon faire skill (+3 to attack with both weapons) and a dual prowess skill (giving the same bonuses that the prowess skill for either weapon equal to level of the least developed one). For example, if a MS had reason IV sword V, his prowess skill would give him reason IV and sword IV, but equipping sword V would override the effect of the class built-in skill. That way you could actually have a unit able to use two different weapons with enough skill without using many skill slots since the secondary weapon gets a free prowess skill. It would also mean that, if you have two prowess skills at the same level, you could potentially free the other skill slot.