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trunkynugget

How would 3x effectiveness change your opinion on units?

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Switching to double effectiveness in fe7 seems to greatly affect certain units. Some examples:

  • Mani Katti, Rapier and Wolf Beil being less powerful, effectively nerfing the lords
  • Bow users not being able to easily one shot fliers like in other games

Would your perception on certain units change if the English version of fe7 had triple effectiveness? Does it make much of a difference?

Also, have you ever played fe7 with triple effectiveness (either modded or Japanese version)?

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All of the Lords would love this. Eliwood appreciates being able to one-shot Nomads in early HHM while Hector becomes a wrecking ball against anything unpromoted. Just keep them away from a Swordslayer (sans Hector). Hammer and Halberd are delicious backed by effectiveness.

It's not going to do much to curve flier dominance, but you'll have to be more careful with them. HHM Erik becomes a bigger threat to Marcus in theory but Horseslayer still has poor Mt that can be neutered further with an axe. Horse and armor effective weapons are scarce among enemies.

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I already rate Louise pretty highly for great bases, decent growths and an instant A support, and with triple effectiveness she would be even more effective in the many maps she's around for that have those pesky wyverns. 

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I find the Wolf Beil is generally strong enough to take down enemies in one shot even with just the 2x modifier.
As for the Matti Katti, I doubt it would change much either. Considering how weak Lyn is, she would probably still need 2 hits to kill anything the weapon is super effective again. And the weapons main problem is it's low accuracy anyway. Which is not a good change compared to the Rapier, considering the enemies that the weapon is effective against almost always use Lances.
The Rapier would probably see the biggest improvements. At least I do recall a lot of situations where Eliwood was just like 1 to 4 points short of a kill.

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It wouldn't do much for archers. Their main disadvantage in FE7, an EP-focused game, is having bad EP, and largely terrible bases. I guess Wil would probably be able to more effectively delete pegasus knights in early game but he's still a charity case. A charity case I'll always bring along...

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I wonder if this would make Hector and Lyn actually worse, since their promotions do make them susceptible to effective damage. Armor and Swordslayer respectively.

Seriously, what kind of shitty promotion gives you more vulnerabilities like that? Sure, Eliwood gets cavalry vulnerability. But he also gets all the perks that come with having a mount. Hector and Lyn however are the same kind of units they were before.
...which for those two also makes it a beginners trap because you probably won't know that new vulnerability even exists until you get slayered. I suppose that's the kind of design you'd expect of the folks who thought putting 14 WT on the Sol Katti was a good idea.

Edited by BrightBow

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As much fun as it was 1-shitting people in Fates and maxing out the damage rolls in SoV, wouldn't it make FE TOO easy if everyone had a hammer and a special lance? Not denying that it'll help revenge-turtling in Birthright, but still.

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3 hours ago, BrightBow said:

I wonder if this would make Hector and Lyn actually worse, since their promotions do make them susceptible to effective damage. Armor and Swordslayer respectively.

Seriously, what kind of shitty promotion gives you more vulnerabilities like that?

I still find it hilarious that Hector doesn't gain any movement because of this too.

I feel like those types of weapons are so sparse on enemies that it wouldn't really matter, just make sure you check enemies once in a while I guess. Also, I guess Swordslayer is so rare that I didn't even know it was in fe7 lol

3 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

It wouldn't do much for archers. Their main disadvantage in FE7, an EP-focused game, is having bad EP, and largely terrible bases. I guess Wil would probably be able to more effectively delete pegasus knights in early game but he's still a charity case. A charity case I'll always bring along...

I want more than anything for Wil to be a good unit but as much as I hate so say it, I have to agree with this.

Early HHM would probably be a lot easier with Rebecca being able to one shot those peg knights, but that would really be it. If only Rath joined earlier...

Also it might be worth mentioning Louise, who would probably enjoy the extra damage but already does decently well without it.

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4 hours ago, BrightBow said:

I wonder if this would make Hector and Lyn actually worse, since their promotions do make them susceptible to effective damage. Armor and Swordslayer respectively.

Seriously, what kind of shitty promotion gives you more vulnerabilities like that? Sure, Eliwood gets cavalry vulnerability. But he also gets all the perks that come with having a mount. Hector and Lyn however are the same kind of units they were before.
...which for those two also makes it a beginners trap because you probably won't know that new vulnerability even exists until you get slayered. I suppose that's the kind of design you'd expect of the folks who thought putting 14 WT on the Sol Katti was a good idea.

To be fair, you don't see enemies with those weapons very often. Which means it tends to not matter most of the time.

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Eliwood and Lyn would be able to 1RKO knights and maybe paladins and generals later. Wouldn't be too game-changing, but it would make keeping them around a little more rewarding. Bow-users should actually be able to kill wyverns, so that's nice. Rebecca and Wil will still suffer I think, but Rath and Louise might shine a little.

I feel like in general most of your characters benefit from this. I don't know if there's an official reason why it's x2 in FE7, but I get the impression that some number of testers got their fliers killed by ballista, or even normal bows and prompted this change. But all the effective weaponry is pretty much a glorified silver-weapon when you have x2 effective damage.

Sure, swordslayers become 1HKO weapons on swordies, but there's like two of them in the whole game to watch out for, they're not effective against Jaffar so he'll probably just kill one out of the two you'll ever see anyway. They were also probably 1HKOs already, especially in the hands of that CoD berserker, and checking enemy inventory is just good practice.

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I was under the impression that the effectiveness downgrade was a localization thing and weapons were still x3 effective in the Japanese version? Could be misremembering.

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20 hours ago, Alistair said:

I was under the impression that the effectiveness downgrade was a localization thing and weapons were still x3 effective in the Japanese version? Could be misremembering.

You are correct.

Edited by De Geso

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