Pokémon Sword and Shield Spoiler Discussion

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Dai said:

B) I think the only way these games are going to improve are if they're pried from GameFreak's cold, unforgiving clutches. Personally, I'd like Square Enix to handle these games. If Game Freak has to be involved, give them a major backseat. Maybe let them design characters, monsters, and story, but don't touch ANYTHING else.

Wow, that's pretty harsh. But if it would work, I can't argue.

[Tamanoir]

So, I did the percentages of Pokémon from every previous generations available (since it's pretty obvious that there should be more Kanto Pokémon than Kalos ones, this is more telling.) Number of Pokémon in parenthesis, in case you want to verify.

Pokémon that has Galarian forms are still counted.

Since Mythical Pokémon are not sure at the moment, I only counted the ones we know about (Mew, Meltan, Melmetal. Melmetal is considered 8G. Meltan and Melmetal are speculative). Still, that should give us a good estimation of who got the biggest cut. If there are any error, please tell me.
 

Spoiler

 

Kanto : 35,10% (53)

Johto 33% (33)

Hoenn 31,85% (43)

Sinnoh 35,51% (38)

Unova : 55,13% (86)

Kalos : 41,67% (30)

Alola : 43,18% (38)

 

 

I guess the good point is that this time you can't accuse them of Genwunner pandering, since the newer generations are the one with more representation.
From previous information, we knew Gen 5 had a pretty huge representation, but that's still really surprising. No generation have above 50% representation I can't stop but guess that the fact James Turner is the art director plays a role here.
 Gen 2 is also really low on representation, which contradicts the most popular prediction as well.
And Gen 1's low representation alos goes against prediction

In general, this selection is incredibly strange. It's the first time Zubat isn't in a Pokémon game (making Magikarp and Goldeen the only gen 1 Pokémon to have been in every single main serie Pokémon games.) Whimsicott is present, but Lilligant isn't, when they have been counterparts until now.
Now, maybe it fits the region perfectly, but it is really unexpectde in more than one way.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Tamanoir

[NegativeExponents-]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Wow, that's pretty harsh. But if it would work, I can't argue.

I mean did you see what they did to LTH? They split their team up in order to create this "passion project" of theirs and it's one of the worst things that has come into existence. It's not even a case of "so bad it's good" it's just plain terrible. If that's how they treat a passion project then I don't think they need to continue working in the industry.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I mean did you see what they did to LTH? They split their team up in order to create this "passion project" of theirs and it's one of the worst things that has come into existence. It's not even a case of "so bad it's good" it's just plain terrible. If that's how they treat a passion project then I don't think they need to continue working in the industry.

...What? What the heck is LTH?

[Dai]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Wow, that's pretty harsh. But if it would work, I can't argue.

Look, I know the joke is that Pokemon fans only started having "standards" when they announced they were cutting Pokemon, but honestly, this is just the straw that broke the camel's back. We've been seeing cuts for years, and now, it's the main stars of the series, the Pokemon themselves. I won't deny that, eventually, yes, there would be simply too many Pokemon to juggle to make things work in this series, and that they would have to make cuts. However, I disagree that now was the time. Especially since, a LOT of stuff is really watered down in comparison.

Dynamax and Gigantamax, for example, is utterly uninteresting, and homogenized to the extreme degree. If you watch the clips involving them, you'll see that, no matter what type of move you use, special, or physical, weak, or strong, unless it is a status move, when you use it on a Max Pokemon with a normal Pokemon, it's a generic, differently-colored splash effect. Water Gun? Blue splash. Aqua Jet? Blue splash. Hydro Pump? Blue splash. Waterfall? Blue splash. Not to mention, the same goes for the Max Pokemon when they use their moves, only it involves status moves, too. All status moves become, what? That shield move? And every other move is homogenized into one master attack for each type. Let's also add that they make the Max sizes largely the same, too. I. E. Raichu actually appearing just as big as Gyarados when both are Maxed.

And people, let's get on with those. Any character model is locked to a grid in standard scenes. Why? Why do they walk in an L down a large, spacious hallway down a corner? They could walk in a C to go around corners, but no. SHARP ANGLES ALL THE WAY, baby.

Battles are still stuck in that same, Gen 1-5 camera angle where your vision is partially behind your Pokemon. Give us some interesting camera work, GF!

Let's also add that a lot of Pokemon are not sized properly in battle, and even sometimes, the overworld. Why make Wailord ENORMOUS if he's not going to be bigger than a car? Why include Wailord at all, for that matter? And I know the argument could be that he'd block up the screen, but this isn't the GBA/DS/3DS. This is the SWITCH, and Max Pokemon are a thing. The only reason I can think of for why he's so small is so that he doesn't conflict with the Max Pokemon, which, regardless, are even more massive.

There's a lot of good things in this game, there really are. But there's even more wonky, wrong-ass problems that make this game appear so inconsistent and stick out like a sore thumb.

[NegativeExponents-]

Just now, Anacybele said:

...What? What the heck is LTH?

Little Town Hero

I guess even GF or Nintendo knew how terrible it was because it didn't even get a release trailer or any sort coverage when it came out.

[Dai]

1 minute ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Little Town Hero

I guess even GF or Nintendo knew how terrible it was because it didn't even get a release trailer or any sort coverage when it came out.

It's so bad GameXplain (which, YMMV on whether or not you agree/disagree/like/dislike them) gave this game their first (as far as I and most others can recall) their ONLY [HATED] review score.

[Michelaar]

I wish there was a way for GF to actually hear us and LISTEN. This is honestly really annoying. Maybe they'll notice the intense amount of disappointment that is coming their way, or better yet Nintendo takes the game out of their hands.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Dai said:

Look, I know the joke is that Pokemon fans only started having "standards" when they announced they were cutting Pokemon, but honestly, this is just the straw that broke the camel's back. We've been seeing cuts for years, and now, it's the main stars of the series, the Pokemon themselves. I won't deny that, eventually, yes, there would be simply too many Pokemon to juggle to make things work in this series, and that they would have to make cuts. However, I disagree that now was the time. Especially since, a LOT of stuff is really watered down in comparison.

Dynamax and Gigantamax, for example, is utterly uninteresting, and homogenized to the extreme degree. If you watch the clips involving them, you'll see that, no matter what type of move you use, special, or physical, weak, or strong, unless it is a status move, when you use it on a Max Pokemon with a normal Pokemon, it's a generic, differently-colored splash effect. Water Gun? Blue splash. Aqua Jet? Blue splash. Hydro Pump? Blue splash. Waterfall? Blue splash. Not to mention, the same goes for the Max Pokemon when they use their moves, only it involves status moves, too. All status moves become, what? That shield move? And every other move is homogenized into one master attack for each type. Let's also add that they make the Max sizes largely the same, too. I. E. Raichu actually appearing just as big as Gyarados when both are Maxed.

And people, let's get on with those. Any character model is locked to a grid in standard scenes. Why? Why do they walk in an L down a large, spacious hallway down a corner? They could walk in a C to go around corners, but no. SHARP ANGLES ALL THE WAY, baby.

Battles are still stuck in that same, Gen 1-5 camera angle where your vision is partially behind your Pokemon. Give us some interesting camera work, GF!

Let's also add that a lot of Pokemon are not sized properly in battle, and even sometimes, the overworld. Why make Wailord ENORMOUS if he's not going to be bigger than a car? Why include Wailord at all, for that matter? And I know the argument could be that he'd block up the screen, but this isn't the GBA/DS/3DS. This is the SWITCH, and Max Pokemon are a thing. The only reason I can think of for why he's so small is so that he doesn't conflict with the Max Pokemon, which, regardless, are even more massive.

There's a lot of good things in this game, there really are. But there's even more wonky, wrong-ass problems that make this game appear so inconsistent and stick out like a sore thumb.

I don't really mind Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing, but I can pretty much agree with everything else you've said here. I've been confused at some of the animations myself because GF said they wanted to make high quality ones, but it only seems like they recycled a lot of old ones. Which I can understand if that saves time and money. But don't go borderline lying about it, please.

4 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Little Town Hero

I guess even GF or Nintendo knew how terrible it was because it didn't even get a release trailer or any sort coverage when it came out.

Oh, I think I saw something about this game like one time. Otherwise, I never heard of it.

[Shrimpica]

4 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I wish there was a way for GF to actually hear us and LISTEN. This is honestly really annoying. Maybe they'll notice the intense amount of disappointment that is coming their way, or better yet Nintendo takes the game out of their hands.

they don't care because people will still buy the games and defend them

[Dai]

1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

they don't care because people will still buy the games and defend them

coughVerlisifycough

I don't condone piracy, but like...I've never had a game that I did want to play, but didn't want to buy it. I either wanted to buy it and play it (even if I didn't play much, like Generation V), or I wanted nothing to do with it (like Let's Go)

[Strullemia]

I mean if someone is still curious to play it but doesn't want to support GF they can wait a bit and buy it used.

I've seen some people say that that's what they're going to do.

[NegativeExponents-]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

they don't care because people will still buy the games and defend them

You know, every pokemon game has had their controversies and drama and whatever that just alway just kinda gets forgotten about eventually but like I don't think I've seen any other generation get as much hate as this. Makes me feel like maybe, just maybe, people will not buy or defend this.

2 minutes ago, Dai said:

coughVerlisifycough

I don't condone piracy, but like...I've never had a game that I did want to play, but didn't want to buy it. I either wanted to buy it and play it (even if I didn't play much, like Generation V), or I wanted nothing to do with it (like Let's Go)

I̶'̶m̶ ̶l̶e̶g̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶o̶b̶l̶i̶g̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶a̶y̶ me neither but if you really want to play without resorting to piracy just buy it used. Cheaper and your money doesn't go to GF

[Shrimpica]

Just now, NegativeExponents- said:

You know, every pokemon game has had their controversies and drama and whatever that just alway just kinda gets forgotten about eventually but like I don't think I've seen any other generation get as much hate as this. Makes me feel like maybe, just maybe, people will not buy or defend this.

 

do 'casuals' know about all the ongoing hate?

[Nym]

I am in a similar boat as Anacybele. So far I really liked most of the new mons even if there's isn't any new eeveelution, come on GF.

But unfortunately, as much as Pokémon is Pokémon, I am not touching this game at all.

It saddens me really, but it's pretty obvious that GF has lost their touch. Those that design the pokémon are still very good but the rest is average at best.

I do not want to bring the whole 'model and animations' again but I'll say this:

I was never really bothered by the whole 'cut from the dex or Dexnev'. Sure it sucks to cut a lot of pokémon from this game, but honestly ever since gen 5, the game already limited you with the pokémon of that generation. In gen 5, for the first game only, you were only limited to the mons of that gen until the post game. Then gen 6 onward, you get a few from other gens before the post game. And I understand why, there's almost 1000 of these monsters, it would be difficult to implement all of them in a single game.

However when you cut even more pokémon for 'higher quality animations', I am sorry but I am going to call bullshit on that one.

And yes, I have seen both the arguments from both sides. But I know that the 3DS wasn't the best when it comes to engine in all that, I can accept that GF is limited in what they can do and keeping those basic, almost static and lack of expressions models was maybe necessery for the 3DS.

However, when we talk about a console which is powerful enough to handle a large open world game like BOTW without any lags, I believe asking for something a little better than the 3DS games isn't absurd. Hell, reuse the models if it can make their jobs a little easier (and don't make them from scratch again...), add more movements, expressions maybe. It doesn't have to be a lot, I think most people would have been sastify with the BR level of quality.

But instead, all we got is a glorified 3DS game with less mons, a gimmick that is going to be thrown out of the window in the next gen anyway. All of that for 70$ and more. I am sorry but I am not buying a 70$/80$ 3DS game.

And there's also other issues like the forced exp share which will make things even more easier than before.

I'm a bit frustrated really.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Nym

[Dai]

My only issue is I'm always a bit of a wretch when it comes to used games. It's one thing when the game is really old and I have no choice, but I tend to have trust issues. Granted, I'll probably forego my tendencies anyway, since this IS really fucked up.

[NegativeExponents-]

2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

 

do 'casuals' know about all the ongoing hate?

Good point actually. Probably not but even casuals will probably go and say what the shit when they find out precious bulbasaur, squirtle, or mewtwo aren't there.

Edited November 4, 2019 by NegativeExponents-

[Punished Dayni]

Well, I guess my frustration months ago was justified after all.

400 was lower than my lowest expectations, I'm not getting a sense that combat will be hugely improved and camp, curry and everything else that was halfway neat hasn't resolved everything else (Besides chances are next to none of t ill be retained because that's how GF roll). Damm shame too, apparently this is finally the game which allowed tutorial skipping.

This and LTH may give GF a big old kick, but in some ways this is necessary. Unfortunate.

[Anacybele]

Well, the one silver lining is that the lack of Sinnoh representation in the dex suggests Sinnoh remakes are coming.

 

At least I can look forward to this. I love Sinnoh and it's my fav.

[NegativeExponents-]

9 minutes ago, Dai said:

My only issue is I'm always a bit of a wretch when it comes to used games. It's one thing when the game is really old and I have no choice, but I tend to have trust issues. Granted, I'll probably forego my tendencies anyway, since this IS really fucked up.

i̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶e̶r̶t̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶e̶m̶u̶l̶a̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶5̶ ̶f̶p̶s̶

6 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Well, I guess my frustration months ago was justified after all.

400 was lower than my lowest expectations, I'm not getting a sense that combat will be hugely improved and camp, curry and everything else that was halfway neat hasn't resolved everything else (Besides chances are next to none of t ill be retained because that's how GF roll). Damm shame too, apparently this is finally the game which allowed tutorial skipping.

This and LTH may give GF a big old kick, but in some ways this is necessary. Unfortunate.

I was a bit more cynical with my lowest expectations being somewhere around 250 but yeah I'm in the same boat. I was finally getting excited for it after seeing all the cool new mon and then 400 dex number drops down on us and lots of the pokemon I like didn't make the cut. Feels bad to see pokemon in such a sorry state.

Edited November 4, 2019 by NegativeExponents-

[Dai]

Here's a fitting quote I found on Twitter.

"ffs lets be real either the leaks are fake, or theres a launch day patch, theres no way that the big console debut of the biggest franchise has only 14 more pokemon than a gameboy advanced game, right? no way the first ds game has93 more pokemon than the first switch one. Right?!"

[ZeManaphy]

As a someone who plays competitive Pokémon, Dexit might have also have been a way to lower the powercreep. Pokemon like Landorus-T, Incineroar, Salamence, and Garchomp have been dominating VGC for some time now, and Dexit seems to be an easy way to give other Pokémon the spotlight. 

[Punished Dayni]

7 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I was a bit more cynical with my lowest expectations being somewhere around 250 but yeah I'm in the same boat. I was finally getting excited for it after seeing all the cool new mon and then 400 dex number drops down on us and lots of the pokemon I like didn't make the cut. Feels bad to see pokemon in such a sorry state.

Jeez, if it were only 250 I would understand there being riots.

As is, Game Freak is more than just stuck in trying to be smaller than it could be, but that it is stuck in its ways to the detriment of their work. 3DS Pokemon may not have been perfect, but they at least didn't make me think they were completely done. And if they wanted to prioritise non-pokemon work, LTH proves they're really in trouble.

[NegativeExponents-]

7 minutes ago, Dai said:

Here's a fitting quote I found on Twitter.

"ffs lets be real either the leaks are fake, or theres a launch day patch, theres no way that the big console debut of the biggest franchise has only 14 more pokemon than a gameboy advanced game, right? no way the first ds game has93 more pokemon than the first switch one. Right?!"

I'm glad I'm not the only one who made that comparison.

[Dai]

Just now, NegativeExponents- said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who made that comparison.

Seeing the numbers honestly makes it even worse. This game has less Pokemon than games from over a decade ago.