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Pokémon Sword and Shield Spoiler Discussion

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My first impression from the datamine was surprise at there not being any new Mythicals, but it seems that there are two slots left open for them. Has Game Freak finally learned to add them in later?

Also, that moment when you see Eternamax Eternatus's stats (at the bottom of the page).

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12 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Pokemon being cut was already announced during E3, the largest gaming event out there

was announced during a small interview.

9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

THERE ARE MORE POKEMON BEYOND THE GALAR DEX FOR THE POST-GAME

In the code =/= in the game.

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1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

In the code =/= in the game.

No, it means they are in the game. Their models and stats are there, so they are in the game in some form and will be available at some point.

Edited by Anacybele

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Just now, Anacybele said:

It means they are in the game. Their models and stats are there, so they are in the game in some form and will be available at some point.

Doesn't mean you can catch them or they are available. Could be event mons down the line.

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Just now, Shrimperor said:

Doesn't mean you can catch them or they are available. Could be event mons down the line.

I doubt all of those will be for events. That's just way too many.

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Wow I just heard about the changes they did to the TM's. Seriously, GF, what the hell?

The list of TR and TM's:

Spoiler


TMs:
- [TM00] Mega Punch
- [TM01] Mega Kick
- [TM02] Pay Day
- [TM03] Fire Punch
- [TM04] Ice Punch
- [TM05] Thunder Punch
- [TM06] Fly
- [TM07] Pin Missile
- [TM08] Hyper Beam
- [TM09] Giga Impact
- [TM10] Magical Leaf
- [TM11] Solar Beam
- [TM12] Solar Blade
- [TM13] Fire Spin
- [TM14] Thunder Wave
- [TM15] Dig
- [TM16] Screech
- [TM17] Light Screen
- [TM18] Reflect
- [TM19] Safeguard
- [TM20] Self-Destruct
- [TM21] Rest
- [TM22] Rock Slide
- [TM23] Thief
- [TM24] Snore
- [TM25] Protect
- [TM26] Scary Face
- [TM27] Icy Wind
- [TM28] Giga Drain
- [TM29] Charm
- [TM30] Steel Wing
- [TM31] Attract
- [TM32] Sandstorm
- [TM33] Rain Dance
- [TM34] Sunny Day
- [TM35] Hail
- [TM36] Whirlpool
- [TM37] Beat Up
- [TM38] Will-O-Wisp
- [TM39] Facade
- [TM40] Swift
- [TM41] Helping Hand
- [TM42] Revenge
- [TM43] Brick Break
- [TM44] Imprison
- [TM45] Dive
- [TM46] Weather Ball
- [TM47] Fake Tears
- [TM48] Rock Tomb
- [TM49] Sand Tomb
- [TM50] Bullet Seed
- [TM51] Icicle Spear
- [TM52] Bounce
- [TM53] Mud Shot
- [TM54] Rock Blast
- [TM55] Brine
- [TM56] U-turn
- [TM57] Payback
- [TM58] Assurance
- [TM59] Fling
- [TM60] Power Swap
- [TM61] Guard Swap
- [TM62] Speed Swap
- [TM63] Drain Punch
- [TM64] Avalanche
- [TM65] Shadow Claw
- [TM66] Thunder Fang
- [TM67] Ice Fang
- [TM68] Fire Fang
- [TM69] Psycho Cut
- [TM70] Trick Room
- [TM71] Wonder Room
- [TM72] Magic Room
- [TM73] Cross Poison
- [TM74] Venoshock
- [TM75] Low Sweep
- [TM76] Round
- [TM77] Hex
- [TM78] Acrobatics
- [TM79] Retaliate
- [TM80] Volt Switch
- [TM81] Bulldoze
- [TM82] Electroweb
- [TM83] Razor Shell
- [TM84] Tail Slap
- [TM85] Snarl
- [TM86] Phantom Force
- [TM87] Draining Kiss
- [TM88] Grassy Terrain
- [TM89] Misty Terrain
- [TM90] Electric Terrain
- [TM91] Psychic Terrain
- [TM92] Mystical Fire
- [TM93] Eerie Impulse
- [TM94] False Swipe
- [TM95] Air Slash
- [TM96] Smart Strike
- [TM97] Brutal Swing
- [TM98] Stomping Tantrum
- [TM99] Breaking Swipe

TRs:
- [TR00] Swords Dance
- [TR01] Body Slam
- [TR02] Flamethrower
- [TR03] Hydro Pump
- [TR04] Surf
- [TR05] Ice Beam
- [TR06] Blizzard
- [TR07] Low Kick
- [TR08] Thunderbolt
- [TR09] Thunder
- [TR10] Earthquake
- [TR11] Psychic
- [TR12] Agility
- [TR13] Focus Energy
- [TR14] Metronome
- [TR15] Fire Blast
- [TR16] Waterfall
- [TR17] Amnesia
- [TR18] Leech Life
- [TR19] Tri Attack
- [TR20] Substitute
- [TR21] Reversal
- [TR22] Sludge Bomb
- [TR23] Spikes
- [TR24] Outrage
- [TR25] Psyshock
- [TR26] Endure
- [TR27] Sleep Talk
- [TR28] Megahorn
- [TR29] Baton Pass
- [TR30] Encore
- [TR31] Iron Tail
- [TR32] Crunch
- [TR33] Shadow Ball
- [TR34] Future Sight
- [TR35] Uproar
- [TR36] Heat Wave
- [TR37] Taunt
- [TR38] Trick
- [TR39] Superpower
- [TR40] Skill Swap
- [TR41] Blaze Kick
- [TR42] Hyper Voice
- [TR43] Overheat
- [TR44] Cosmic Power
- [TR45] Muddy Water
- [TR46] Iron Defense
- [TR47] Dragon Claw
- [TR48] Bulk Up
- [TR49] Calm Mind
- [TR50] Leaf Blade
- [TR51] Dragon Dance
- [TR52] Gyro Ball
- [TR53] Close Combat
- [TR54] Toxic Spikes
- [TR55] Flare Blitz
- [TR56] Aura Sphere
- [TR57] Poison Jab
- [TR58] Dark Pulse
- [TR59] Seed Bomb
- [TR60] X-Scissor
- [TR61] Bug Buzz
- [TR62] Dragon Pulse
- [TR63] Power Gem
- [TR64] Focus Blast
- [TR65] Energy Ball
- [TR66] Brave Bird
- [TR67] Earth Power
- [TR68] Nasty Plot
- [TR69] Zen Headbutt
- [TR70] Flash Cannon
- [TR71] Leaf Storm
- [TR72] Power Whip
- [TR73] Gunk Shot
- [TR74] Iron Head
- [TR75] Stone Edge
- [TR76] Stealth Rock
- [TR77] Grass Knot
- [TR78] Sludge Wave
- [TR79] Heavy Slam
- [TR80] Electro Ball
- [TR81] Foul Play
- [TR82] Stored Power
- [TR83] Ally Switch
- [TR84] Scald
- [TR85] Work Up
- [TR86] Wild Charge
- [TR87] Drill Run
- [TR88] Heat Crash
- [TR89] Hurricane
- [TR90] Play Rough
- [TR91] Venom Drench
- [TR92] Dazzling Gleam
- [TR93] Darkest Lariat
- [TR94] High Horsepower
- [TR95] Throat Chop
- [TR96] Pollen Puff
- [TR97] Psychic Fangs
- [TR98] Liquidation
- [TR99] Body Press

 

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At this point I legit wish the new pokemon were all ugly shit like garbodor or vanilluxe (rather than so many great designs) so i could leave these games behind and never look back 😩

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20 minutes ago, Strullemia said:

Wow I just heard about the changes they did to the TM's. Seriously, GF, what the hell?

The list of TR and TM's:

  Reveal hidden contents


TMs:
- [TM00] Mega Punch
- [TM01] Mega Kick
- [TM02] Pay Day
- [TM03] Fire Punch
- [TM04] Ice Punch
- [TM05] Thunder Punch
- [TM06] Fly
- [TM07] Pin Missile
- [TM08] Hyper Beam
- [TM09] Giga Impact
- [TM10] Magical Leaf
- [TM11] Solar Beam
- [TM12] Solar Blade
- [TM13] Fire Spin
- [TM14] Thunder Wave
- [TM15] Dig
- [TM16] Screech
- [TM17] Light Screen
- [TM18] Reflect
- [TM19] Safeguard
- [TM20] Self-Destruct
- [TM21] Rest
- [TM22] Rock Slide
- [TM23] Thief
- [TM24] Snore
- [TM25] Protect
- [TM26] Scary Face
- [TM27] Icy Wind
- [TM28] Giga Drain
- [TM29] Charm
- [TM30] Steel Wing
- [TM31] Attract
- [TM32] Sandstorm
- [TM33] Rain Dance
- [TM34] Sunny Day
- [TM35] Hail
- [TM36] Whirlpool
- [TM37] Beat Up
- [TM38] Will-O-Wisp
- [TM39] Facade
- [TM40] Swift
- [TM41] Helping Hand
- [TM42] Revenge
- [TM43] Brick Break
- [TM44] Imprison
- [TM45] Dive
- [TM46] Weather Ball
- [TM47] Fake Tears
- [TM48] Rock Tomb
- [TM49] Sand Tomb
- [TM50] Bullet Seed
- [TM51] Icicle Spear
- [TM52] Bounce
- [TM53] Mud Shot
- [TM54] Rock Blast
- [TM55] Brine
- [TM56] U-turn
- [TM57] Payback
- [TM58] Assurance
- [TM59] Fling
- [TM60] Power Swap
- [TM61] Guard Swap
- [TM62] Speed Swap
- [TM63] Drain Punch
- [TM64] Avalanche
- [TM65] Shadow Claw
- [TM66] Thunder Fang
- [TM67] Ice Fang
- [TM68] Fire Fang
- [TM69] Psycho Cut
- [TM70] Trick Room
- [TM71] Wonder Room
- [TM72] Magic Room
- [TM73] Cross Poison
- [TM74] Venoshock
- [TM75] Low Sweep
- [TM76] Round
- [TM77] Hex
- [TM78] Acrobatics
- [TM79] Retaliate
- [TM80] Volt Switch
- [TM81] Bulldoze
- [TM82] Electroweb
- [TM83] Razor Shell
- [TM84] Tail Slap
- [TM85] Snarl
- [TM86] Phantom Force
- [TM87] Draining Kiss
- [TM88] Grassy Terrain
- [TM89] Misty Terrain
- [TM90] Electric Terrain
- [TM91] Psychic Terrain
- [TM92] Mystical Fire
- [TM93] Eerie Impulse
- [TM94] False Swipe
- [TM95] Air Slash
- [TM96] Smart Strike
- [TM97] Brutal Swing
- [TM98] Stomping Tantrum
- [TM99] Breaking Swipe

TRs:
- [TR00] Swords Dance
- [TR01] Body Slam
- [TR02] Flamethrower
- [TR03] Hydro Pump
- [TR04] Surf
- [TR05] Ice Beam
- [TR06] Blizzard
- [TR07] Low Kick
- [TR08] Thunderbolt
- [TR09] Thunder
- [TR10] Earthquake
- [TR11] Psychic
- [TR12] Agility
- [TR13] Focus Energy
- [TR14] Metronome
- [TR15] Fire Blast
- [TR16] Waterfall
- [TR17] Amnesia
- [TR18] Leech Life
- [TR19] Tri Attack
- [TR20] Substitute
- [TR21] Reversal
- [TR22] Sludge Bomb
- [TR23] Spikes
- [TR24] Outrage
- [TR25] Psyshock
- [TR26] Endure
- [TR27] Sleep Talk
- [TR28] Megahorn
- [TR29] Baton Pass
- [TR30] Encore
- [TR31] Iron Tail
- [TR32] Crunch
- [TR33] Shadow Ball
- [TR34] Future Sight
- [TR35] Uproar
- [TR36] Heat Wave
- [TR37] Taunt
- [TR38] Trick
- [TR39] Superpower
- [TR40] Skill Swap
- [TR41] Blaze Kick
- [TR42] Hyper Voice
- [TR43] Overheat
- [TR44] Cosmic Power
- [TR45] Muddy Water
- [TR46] Iron Defense
- [TR47] Dragon Claw
- [TR48] Bulk Up
- [TR49] Calm Mind
- [TR50] Leaf Blade
- [TR51] Dragon Dance
- [TR52] Gyro Ball
- [TR53] Close Combat
- [TR54] Toxic Spikes
- [TR55] Flare Blitz
- [TR56] Aura Sphere
- [TR57] Poison Jab
- [TR58] Dark Pulse
- [TR59] Seed Bomb
- [TR60] X-Scissor
- [TR61] Bug Buzz
- [TR62] Dragon Pulse
- [TR63] Power Gem
- [TR64] Focus Blast
- [TR65] Energy Ball
- [TR66] Brave Bird
- [TR67] Earth Power
- [TR68] Nasty Plot
- [TR69] Zen Headbutt
- [TR70] Flash Cannon
- [TR71] Leaf Storm
- [TR72] Power Whip
- [TR73] Gunk Shot
- [TR74] Iron Head
- [TR75] Stone Edge
- [TR76] Stealth Rock
- [TR77] Grass Knot
- [TR78] Sludge Wave
- [TR79] Heavy Slam
- [TR80] Electro Ball
- [TR81] Foul Play
- [TR82] Stored Power
- [TR83] Ally Switch
- [TR84] Scald
- [TR85] Work Up
- [TR86] Wild Charge
- [TR87] Drill Run
- [TR88] Heat Crash
- [TR89] Hurricane
- [TR90] Play Rough
- [TR91] Venom Drench
- [TR92] Dazzling Gleam
- [TR93] Darkest Lariat
- [TR94] High Horsepower
- [TR95] Throat Chop
- [TR96] Pollen Puff
- [TR97] Psychic Fangs
- [TR98] Liquidation
- [TR99] Body Press

 

Yeah, this whole TM and TR change is weird as fuck. People didn't like it when TMs were single use which is why Black and White made them infinite. Now SwSh is doing this hybrid thing where TMs are still infinite but TRs are single use. And there's a shit ton of TRs that used to be in TMs in previous games. I don't get it.

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7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, this whole TM and TR change is weird as fuck. People didn't like it when TMs were single use which is why Black and White made them infinite. Now SwSh is doing this hybrid thing where TMs are still infinite but TRs are single use. And there's a shit ton of TRs that used to be in TMs in previous games. I don't get it.

Dude, seriously? Why would they do that?

I don't think I'm getting SwSh. It looks incomplete and rushed imo.

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5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And there's a shit ton of TRs that used to be in TMs in previous games. I don't get it.

Yeah and naturally, most of the best former TMs are now TRs. Though I suppose that is a better fate than say Toxic, which is decidedly neither a TM or TR.

I do at least appreciate some of the new TMs, namely the return of the elemental punches for the first time since Gen 2.

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8 minutes ago, Espurrhoodie said:

Dude, seriously? Why would they do that?

I don't think I'm getting SwSh. It looks incomplete and rushed imo.

I think Little Town Hero honestly hurt ShSw's develompent. Game Freak is already small and appearently half of them were working on LTH, which was a lost cause given that nobody bought the game. Add in the yearly schedule and yeah.

Some people say that Pokemon can't afford to not be yearly because of the anime and merchandise but what people seem to forget is that

  • Merchandise has constant reruns.
  • Orange Islands, Battle Frontier and Decalor Arcipelago exist. The anime has done filler arcs before.
4 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah and naturally, most of the best former TMs are now TRs.

The worst part about TRs is that you may be able to buy them but TMs have always been expensive as shit and i'll assume the same goes for TRs. And that's not even getting into the ones that can only be bought with BP.

Edited by Armagon

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There has also been news about the hidden abilities of the starters. I'm not really happy with the Scorbunny one

Spoiler

I remember HATING Protean back in the X/Y games. It was a broken ability that made the Greninja's that where on 90% of the teams a big pain to deal with. The Scorbunny line gets a renamed Protean ability which I already don't like, but I also feel like i'm missing something.

I can understand why Greninja got the ability, but I don't see how fire bunnies would be able to completely change their types.

Speaking of HA's. Is it already known how to get those in Sword and Shield? I hope its more user friendly then the awful, awful SOS mechanic.

Edited by Sasori

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I dunno, I'm really suspicious of these leaks.

The "leaked pokedex" turned out to be intentionally misleading, at this point I think the "leakers" are just screwing with us.

There's so little on this game, it's not really worth speculating on imo.

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TR? What the heck is that? This is the first I'm hearing of such a thing.

EDIT: Oh, TRs are single use? Yeah...that sucks. Unless it's not that hard to get more of the same move anyway.

Edited by Anacybele

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3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Game Freak is already small and appearently half of them were working on LTH

The Game Freak website puts the employee count at 143 as of April 2018.

https://www.gamefreak.co.jp/company/about.html

Little Town Hero had ~58 people work on it. This includes a number of non-Game Freak companies (presumably all small developers). 

https://nintendosoup.com/close-to-60-employees-worked-on-little-town-hero/

I don't understand how the credits in the above link list the employees as to their corporate affiliation. But if 30-50 of those people were GF employees, that mean between a quarter and a little more than a third of GF's entire workforce. That's sizable.

 

To use three other Nintendo subsidiaries for comparisons, Monolith Soft is 224 presently, HAL Laboratories is 169, Intelligent Systems is 151 (although remember that 3H was largely Koei Tecmo, which presently has 1757 employees, probably not all game-development though).

Monolith is perhaps the most telling here. It might be the biggest of the bunch, and I don't know the exact statistics on worker count for XC1, X, or 2/Torna or if there was outside help. But all of those are modern games with good graphics and technical stuff which Monolith mostly if not entirely made on their own. And the technical-graphical is one of the criticisms here with SwSh that isn't Dexit-Movexit.

I don't think you can glean much from HAL, since Kirby is pretty low key, and any work they did on Smash has Bandai Namco's 1066 workers backing it. Intelligent Systems hasn't put out a console game mostly of their own effort after coming of five games all on portables. It'll take IS's next project to determine what it is independently capable of.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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Come on, Game Freak is literally REGRESSING at this point. What purpose is thrre in the Technical Records? Seriously?

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21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Monolith is perhaps the most telling here. It might be the biggest of the bunch, and I don't know the exact statistics on worker count for XC1, X, or 2/Torna or if there was outside help. But all of those are modern games with good graphics and technical stuff which Monolith mostly if not entirely made on their own. And the technical-graphical is one of the criticisms here with SwSh that isn't Dexit-Movexit.

On the subject of Monolith Soft, because they were working on Breath of the Wild as well, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 only had 40 Monolith employees working on it. Granted, there was outsourcing (at least with some of the models, which were then internally revised) but it's still telling that Monolith Soft was able to put out a game of that scope with less people than the ones who worked on Sword and Shield. And the key there is time. Xenoblade 2 had four years of development. Sword and Shield had a few months at most.

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4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

On the subject of Monolith Soft, because they were working on Breath of the Wild as well, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 only had 40 Monolith employees working on it. Granted, there was outsourcing (at least with some of the models, which were then internally revised) but it's still telling that Monolith Soft was able to put out a game of that scope with less people than the ones who worked on Sword and Shield. And the key there is time. Xenoblade 2 had four years of development. Sword and Shield had a few months at most.

I recall seeing that SnS actually was worked on at least shortly after S&M.

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6 minutes ago, Dai said:

I recall seeing that SnS actually was worked on at least shortly after S&M.

Huh, that's interesting. But then that means they were working on USUM (we can leave that one out tho), Let's GO and SwSh at the same time.

I'm curious to see the numbers.

Edited by Armagon

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12 minutes ago, Dai said:

Come on, Game Freak is literally REGRESSING at this point. What purpose is thrre in the Technical Records? Seriously?

More learnable moves maybe? 200 is almost double what it has been before. Some of the moves they've added aren't very useful. There has always been "poor" TMs, I'm too lazy to determine the good-to-bad ratio then and now though.

Some of these feel like "Legacy TMs"- Pay Day, Mega Punch/Kick and the Elemental Punches much? -Although the Elemental Punches are good b/c the old Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam and Fire Blast/Thunder/Blizzard were all Special.

Then, there is the question- why not simply have 200 TMs?

 

2 minutes ago, Dai said:

I recall seeing that SnS actually was worked on at least shortly after S&M.

The originals and not the Ultras? That'd mean since the end of 2016/start of 2017. Ultra would mean the end of 2017/start of 2018. Never mind that they'd still have LG taking up their time in the latter scenario, and the early date still has Ultras taking up development power too.

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I def understand wanting more than 100 TMs, since new, important moves are added each gen and you don't want to swap out something people like or always expect to be there - like Toxic. But with moves disappearing completely the trend of an ever-growing move pool has been buckled a bit. There's also move tutors who let them get past the 100 TM limit in the past, though my poke-friends inform me they only show up in third version/sequel games? 

I'd welcome TRs as a concept. But glancing at the list, most of the best moves ought to have been consumable in that case. Like Hyper Beam. Getting one of those in Gen 1 was  100,000 poke dollars - about half the money you made outside of the elite four in a single playthrough, and it was a highly sought after move.

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I've also heard things about the day/night cycle being fucked up. Something like it needs internet for it to work or it being different in each area or whatever. I haven't seen any convincing proof of it yet but if it's true then how the hell did GF manage to screw something as basic as time cycles?! Even Gold/Silver could do it no problem.

Spoiler

Maybe I'll come back with an update on that after sailing the seven seas for a bit.

The TRs don't seem like a huge issue to me. Like, it sucks that most of the good TMs are now TRs but watts aren't too difficult to come across from what I've seen.

Completely getting rid of moves though, especially Return and HP, is so dumb. HP was a staple on so many mons that didn't have other good coverage moves to choose from and Return was like the only good physical normal type move. Now normal types have strength as their best option which sucks.

Also, all items are in the data. Even mega stones which is dumb.

 

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8 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I've also heard things about the day/night cycle being fucked up. Something like it needs internet for it to work or it being different in each area or whatever. I haven't seen any convincing proof of it yet but if it's true then how the hell did GF manage to screw something as basic as time cycles?! Even Gold/Silver could do it no problem.

  Hide contents

Maybe I'll come back with an update on that after sailing the seven seas for a bit.

The TRs don't seem like a huge issue to me. Like, it sucks that most of the good TMs are now TRs but watts aren't too difficult to come across from what I've seen.

Completely getting rid of moves though, especially Return and HP, is so dumb. HP was a staple on so many mons that didn't have other good coverage moves to choose from and Return was like the only good physical normal type move. Now normal types have strength as their best option which sucks.

Also, all items are in the data. Even mega stones which is dumb.

 

 

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tbf, train rides take time. Maybe it's a turtle train?

 

Also, ''looking absolutely incredible'' wtf? Really, shofu?

Edited by Shrimperor

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