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Dr. C

Ophelia Paralogue at Chapter 22... HELP

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Well... I just found out they recommend doing this Paralogue early for the Tomes (And lack of headache). Most of my child units are unrecruited at this point so it's going to fun all around. 

Anyways, my present team is having issues... Namely balancing reaching the upper right hand corner in time and tanking the Omniyoji and Wavern Lords in the lower left hand corner. A Shining Bow supported by Lily's Poise and Demoiselles on Niles at least lets me bait Wyvern Lords to start but Elise basically NEEDS to heal him and at that point, Elise needs to be protected above all else...

Oh and then there's the issue of the berserkers and Ninjas in the Lower Righthand Corner... They double Beruka... Not fun. Okay I'll use her husband Benny for weary fighter since they're never unpaired... Of course one of the Berserkers has a hammer.

i will admit this is better than an eternally spawning of void EXP Greatknights with Armorslayers, Beastkillers and Silver Lamces. From Siegbert but... A puzzle nevertheless

I don't think my army is strong enough... Adequately leveled? Other than Odin who's cowering behind his danger in fear of being breathed upon, no one is under leveled. Elise gets one shot by everything so might reconsider benching Kaze in favor of Effie but then Silas gets no shield gauge and really, I should just be more careful with my Elise placements

Army is:

Level 10 Malign Knight Corrin 

Level 15 Samurai Odin (yeah... he's getting paired up with Dark Knjght Ophelia)

Level 12 Adventurer Niles (Trying or get to 15 to pass down Shurikenfaire so target EXP to 13 and 90something)

Level 11 Bow Knight Selena (She got Defense Screwed, I'm trying to pass down Shruikenbreaker to Soleil and bench her)

Level  11 Bow Knjfht Silas (Trying to get that Shruikenbreaker for Shiigure and Sophie who... Not even gonna think about her Paralogue)

Level. 13 Wyvern Lord Camilla (Just Class Changed and not really an exp focus but she's a good panic button unit)

Level 11 Dark K isn't Leoo (Trying to shoot for a Lifetaker Inheritance here)L

evel 11 Hero Xander (Fresh,y Reclassed for maximum skill grind.)

Level 11 Wyvern Lord Beruka (Yeah suddenly not quite as good for this Paralogue as I had hoped what with the whole  getting doubled by Berserkers thing)

Level 9 General Benny (pair up bot)

Level 9 master Ninja Kaze (Also pair up bot for Silas/Xander)

Level 9 Strategist Elise (with an incredible 7 Defense... Not even a Defense and HP tonic keep her from getting one shot... It's sad but I I think she got a bit Defense screwed)

Waiting in the wings 

Level 9 General Effie (So Elise MIGHT take a hit)

Level 10 Mag!Corrin Butler Dwayer with Draconic Hex and Armored Blow Inheritance (Debuffung and extra healing might help) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dr. C

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Yeah, it's rough. Earlier on the mixed group of physical/magical isn't as big of an issue given Effie takes little to nothing from the physical enemies, and Camilla's strong on both defensive fronts, but now that they're stronger it's painful.

I'd say trying to play aggressively might help you out here, seeing as your tanks are struggling to... tank. Doing more Player Phase strats and such. Effie definitely would help, but maybe dump someone besides Kaze for it, since he's not bad for killing the games and debuffing things.
I'd say... deal with the initial group of wyverns/mages, then go right and fight the reinforcements from below. Afterwards go up and fight the boss' group before cautiously fighting the final larger group? Maybe.

This normally isn't a map I do later game, and if I do it's on Revelations which you have Ryoma and other strong Birthright units in. But I think you could do to advance a Chapter or two? I'm not 100% sure on how the Paralogues work enemy growth wise, but I think you could do with advancing a chapter to get more levels from Ch 22/23 before attempting.

 

In any case... if you haven't gotten Ignatius yet, I feel terrible for you. That chapter's infinitely worse than this one to do lategame.

also haha yes the ophelia person obligatorily has to comment on anything ophelia related

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Promote Vantage!Ophy to sorc. Hand her Nos. Walk in a circle. Use tonics if needed.

Is deep strategy. Much complex.

Edit: Underleveled Odin and Strat Elise? Cheese and rice Ophy has trash bases here. Bring a freeze stave and give her Sorc!Odin as pairup. Make that two freeze staves. Hp Tonic, Mag tonic, def tonic, dustx3 on Ophy should do the dew. Just freeze anything that threatens her and mob it down.

Edited by joshcja

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3 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Promote Vantage!Ophy to sorc. Hand her Nos. Walk in a circle. Use tonics if needed.

Is deep strategy. Much complex.

Given Odin's a lv 15 Samurai I can't imagine her bases are good enough for that.

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I’ll try to give an approach for the first two turns. I don’t have access to your units' exact stats and equipment, obviously, and I don’t have a save file with the pre-chapter-22 version of this map on hand, but I do have a pretty good handle on how this map works.

Turn One

Ophelia has Vantage, so she should be able to take on the southwestern group. She's not inheriting very strong bonus stats from her parents because she’s really depending on a high-level Odin or Wyvern Elise for her defenses, but those bonuses are effectively limited to 2 or 3 points over her auto-leveled bases, which should be adequate for the job.

Malig Knight Corrin (or DK Leo) gives her a solid +Mag/+Def pair-up partner. I’d keep Nosferatu and a Def tonic (and maybe an HP tonic) in the convoy. Ophelia pulls those from the convoy on turn one and uses the Defense tonic. Wyvern Lord Beruka should be able to Rally her Defense, and you can pick your units' starting positions strategically so that this rally also covers other units who will push out in different directions. Strategist Elise can Rally Resistance too.

Azura sings to Ophelia, then Ophelia pairs up with Corrin. (If Azura is unavailable, Ophelia will just have to forego the tonic for this turn.) Corrin flies west to the woods next to the western village and switches to Ophelia, who equips Nosferatu and promotes to Sorcerer.

If Dwyer can survive a Quick Draw Silver Axe Wyvern Lord plus another one wielding a Tomahawk, then put him on the square northeast of Ophelia where he can cover her with Gentilhomme. Ideally he has a few more points in Defense than Ophelia so that they go after her instead. He might need a strong guard stance partner and Beruka's rally to hit this threshold.

If you do all this, you've given Ophelia an effective +10-11 Defense and +6-8 Res, plus promotion bonuses, on turn one. That's probably enough to survive attacks from every Onmyoji and every Wyvern Lord in the southwest while standing in her little woods tile.

In the meantime, Leo and Niles should be able to take on the two generals blocking the way to the southeastern village. Xander is most likely able to take a hit from one of the nearby Berserkers. Ideally, you have someone else holding a Bronze weapon work alongside Xander in attack stance, with each unit baiting one of the Berserkers near the edge of their range. You’re going to want good action economy for next turn.

Lastly, Camilla probably can fly northeast and start baiting the Masters of Arms there. Attack Stance is again preferred if Camilla can manage it, but Guard Stance is fine and might work better if it lets her one-round things herself. You want to clear out this pack quickly because the Spirit Dust village is one of the first to be threatened.

Turn Two

If all goes well, then Ophelia weakens everyone in the SW aside from the general. She can pick off a surviving Wyvern and should be able to kill everyone else on enemy phase this turn. Dwyer just runs east, or engages the general north of him if he's unhurt and has the Flame Shuriken.

Both generals in the SE should be dead. Leo can visit the village there and pick up Lightning.

Xander and his attack stance friend (Silas, maybe?) have wounded two of three berserkers and are facing a pair of Master Ninjas behind them. Niles, Beruka, and Elise are in the area, and they should be able to attack stance their way through the whole group.

You've also got some of Selena, Benny, Kaze, and Odin waiting around. One of them is already supporting Camilla and another is probably with Dwyer, but the others can go help Camilla finish off the Masters of Arms. With good positioning, you may be able to force the three Onmyoji behind them to engage Kaze, who can probably handle them all.

Beyond Turn Two

Corrin can hit the southwestern village with the Horse Spirit, and someone can grab the Spirit Dust from the northeastern village. After that, pull all your forces northward. The reinforcements in the north are about to crash through the wall, and you want to start clearing out that area before your path to the final village is flooded with scary enemies. Plug the wall with a decent enemy phase tank while you beat up the generals and berserkers near the village. After that, collect the Calamity Gate and park a strong guard stance pair on the northern fort to intercept the eastern and southeastern enemy groups. Ophelia might already be so strong at this point that she can handle that job herself.

One helpful thing to know is that the enemy Adventurers going after the villages will not attack anyone until every village has been visited. You can delay collecting the fourth village to keep them docile; the one that arrives with the southeastern reinforcements often just gets in the way of other enemies, which can be nice.

Edited by Zoran

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1 hour ago, Emerson said:

Given Odin's a lv 15 Samurai I can't imagine her bases are good enough for that.

Yeah we'll need 3 turns worth of drugs and a freeze stave or two here.

Still, it's Ophy so it works.

Or just bring in triple freeze. That stave is broken.

Edited by joshcja

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4 hours ago, Dr. C said:

Dark Knjght Ophelia

...Are you trying for a physical Ophelia, as Sorcerer is far better for her if she is magically oriented (with Dark Knight not having access to Nosferatu, she can't take full advantage of that defense as a mage)

 

I think I will start with a few caveats, first I am assuming you are playing on hard, so this advice might not be ideal if you are playing on a different difficulty (for instance if you are playing on Lunatic there are 2 General right in front of the south eastern house you will have to deal with), second I tend to play with a significant number of my units unpaired to take advantage of attack stances, so I might be assuming a far greater damage output, and number of actions available than if you prefer to pairup a lot of your units. A pairup style of play has a better time tanking, and lets you shore up the weakness of units with pairup stats, but that doesn't seem to be working well for you on this map, so you might want to test out this different style of play. First piece of advice that comes to mind is you don't have to bait the Wyvern Lords, they will come to you (and they are easy to player phase with how many bows you have), and if you convince them to head south around the houses your archers can deal with them without having to worry about the Onmyoji retaliation (and if you set things up right you can have Elise embarrass those with her staggering resistance). You will need to rush the north eastern house (as there is an adventurer that can sack that house heading right for it), so sending someone that does well on enemy phase against the masters of arm is a good idea, with a couple of other fast moving units as backup to clear out the two Onmyoji (and extra Master of Arms if you avoided the Onmyoji ranges). The Berserkers charge in, so you should be able to player phase them, but with those Ninja just behind them you are probably spread thin enough that you will have to get a little sneaky to deal with all 5. You can get them to split there forces a bit by making going north and south around the south-eastern house a similarly tempting prospect, or you can tempt the Ninja into using their range to bait them into attacking around the southern side of the house while the Berserkers head north, but these kind of manipulations tend to take a bit of finagling so you may need to experiment a bit. A few other things to note, there are reinforcements that spawn on the other side of breakable walls in the north and south (turn 1 in the south, and 3 in the north), the enemies in the north-east and north-west do not start moving till you either bait one of them, or enemy phase on turn 5, and the three Adventurers are the only units able to destroy the villages, one starts on the map, and will try to destroy the north-eastern house on turn 3, the other two are with the reinforcements. I hope these tips help.

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So... lots of comments all helpful but unfortunately, today is a church day and I can’t really do replies to these justice.

But some general talking points.

It is Lunatic.

I don’t like the idea of breaking 3 freeze staffs when Sophie’s paralogue is still around the corner 

I was following threads that claim Ophelia’s best class was Dark Knight.

Guessing that’s not the case?

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1 hour ago, Dr. C said:

So... lots of comments all helpful but unfortunately, today is a church day and I can’t really do replies to these justice.

But some general talking points.

It is Lunatic.

I don’t like the idea of breaking 3 freeze staffs when Sophie’s paralogue is still around the corner 

I was following threads that claim Ophelia’s best class was Dark Knight.

Guessing that’s not the case?

Eh, we've got 7 of the suckers. Bring 2 to use it more freely, realistically we're burning 3-4 charges here. Assuming you're going into CH22 we have exactly 6 relevant maps for freeze left. I'm assuming you have at least 6 staves in bank/shop. So we're never running out of charges per-map not counting entrap/enfeeble. 

Reddit is a really bad source of information. VLaD+ Forgetome/VNos Sorc breaks the game clean in half.

@Starburst: Her paralouge is never really bad on the basis of "Ophelia is on the map".

Edited by joshcja

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5 hours ago, Dr. C said:

I don’t like the idea of breaking 3 freeze staffs when Sophie’s paralogue is still around the corner 

I have never played Paralogues that late, but I have played many of them on Lunatic several times. Thus, unless the enemy density is dramatically increased, to me Sophie’s map has always been way easier than Ophelia’s (as in completed in 5-6 turns with ten units, saving all Lemmings, without flyers or royals.) If anything, a Rescue charge might be more useful than a Freeze one.

 

4 hours ago, joshcja said:

Reddit is a really bad source of information. VLaD+ Forgetome/VNos Sorc breaks the game clean in half.

@Starburst: Her paralouge is never really bad on the basis of "Ophelia is on the map".

The thing is that, since I usually recruit Ophelia at Level 10, the real star(s) of the map is the couple in charge of fetching the top two treasure chests. I do feed about four levels to Ophelia, though.

Listen to joshcja about Ophelia’s build. Hers is an innately broken skill set.

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10 hours ago, starburst said:

I have never played Paralogues that late, but I have played many of them on Lunatic several times. Thus, unless the enemy density is dramatically increased, to me Sophie’s map has always been way easier than Ophelia’s (as in completed in 5-6 turns with ten units, saving all Lemmings, without flyers or royals.) If anything, a Rescue charge might be more useful than a Freeze one.

 

The thing is that, since I usually recruit Ophelia at Level 10, the real star(s) of the map is the couple in charge of fetching the top two treasure chests. I do feed about four levels to Ophelia, though.

Listen to joshcja about Ophelia’s build. Hers is an innately broken skill set.

Iwell here we are. I  was orijginally doing a battle EXP only no my castle contents run but Siegbert threw that out the window. I also made an exception for Ghostly Gold because I can be stuck on a chapter trying over and over again failings hike slowly accumulating God bars or... I could just get years of gold bars in one sitting. 

So with my plan to acquire 4 Shurikenfaire children and an Ophelia with amazing inheritance, Ii opted to go later not knowing how much of a headache it truly would be (seriously, next time, Siegbert and Ignatiious Chapter 17 DONE)

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40 minutes ago, Dr. C said:

So with my plan to acquire 4 Shurikenfaire children and an Ophelia with amazing inheritance, Ii opted to go later not knowing how much of a headache it truly would be (seriously, next time, Siegbert and Ignatiious Chapter 17 DONE)

Simply put, I find waiting for Offspring Seals is never worth it. Personally, I find the sweet spot for child recruitment is around the time Xander or Ryoma joins, since you are gonna have promoted units around then while the enemy doesn't. Shiro in particular is in a really shitty position in his paralogue. Wait too long, and he WILL kill himself on the nearest enemy before you can do anything to avert it.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Simply put, I find waiting for Offspring Seals is never worth it. Personally, I find the sweet spot for child recruitment is around the time Xander or Ryoma joins, since you are gonna have promoted units around then while the enemy doesn't. Shiro in particular is in a really shitty position in his paralogue. Wait too long, and he WILL kill himself on the nearest enemy before you can do anything to avert it.

I might just say screw it and ignore the kids then

Shigure is doable though.

That much I know

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6 hours ago, Dr. C said:

I might just say screw it and ignore the kids then

Nah! Do not get discouraged, mate. Sophie's map is rather easy, and saving the Lemmings is worthless at that point in the game. And Ophelia's map is not that difficult, the tricky part is getting all chests; the enemies themselves are not powerful enough to kill you when dealt in chunks. At least try to get the bottom-left chest (Horse Spirit) and the top-left one (Calamity Gate.) Again, at that point in the game, you can probably do without the scrolls, but I always find them handy. Follow the tips given by other members and try again.

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4 hours ago, starburst said:

Nah! Do not get discouraged, mate. Sophie's map is rather easy, and saving the Lemmings is worthless at that point in the game. And Ophelia's map is not that difficult, the tricky part is getting all chests; the enemies themselves are not powerful enough to kill you when dealt in chunks. At least try to get the bottom-left chest (Horse Spirit) and the top-left one (Calamity Gate.) Again, at that point in the game, you can probably do without the scrolls, but I always find them handy. Follow the tips given by other members and try again.

I DID IT YES!

Spreading my army too thin on multiple fronts, Beruka’s Rally Defense actually did make a difference because it freed Elise up from using Lily’s poise on turn one and moving with the rest of my army. 

Also, Xander on a fort in the south obliterated all the enemies on the south side eliminating the worry of that front.

I don’t like that Leo, Niles, Selena and Silas didn’t get as much EXP as planned but.. well guess I’ll just have to really give favoritism in Chapter 22.

Edited by Dr. C

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1 hour ago, Dr. C said:

I DID IT YES!

I don’t like that Leo, Niles, Selena and Silas didn’t get as much EXP as planned but.. well guess I’ll just have to really give favoritism in Chapter 22.

Glad to know that you find a way, mate.
And do not worry, in Chapter 22 you can give Experience points to whomever you want. It is full of choke points and the enemies cannot one-round you. Just send everyone west, face Hanna with a full guard (or Lunge her) and block the Mechanist reinforcements.

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