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Rate the routes on difficulty


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15 minutes ago, Silly said:

Both routes also have Sylvain for free if you're plating as a female

Fix'd for accuracy, because needless to say, not everyone here prefers having Byleth as a girl.

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5 hours ago, Silly said:

BE route has Edelgard, Petra, and Ferdinand as attractive long-term units. Everyone else is either more of a support unit (or mage) or benchworthy. GD route has Claude, Hilda, and Leonie as good units. Both routes also have Sylvain for free, which puts you at 5 good combat units (including Byleth) already. Add in some support units (healers and someone to carry support gambits such as stride) and you don't even need to add that many cross recruits to round out your team.

I generally agree with this, and thus find the attempt to classify route difficulty by roster strength mostly a poor idea. Especially since the differences all but evaporate by Chapter 5 or so.

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13 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Fix'd for accuracy, because needless to say, not everyone here prefers having Byleth as a girl.

If you're talking about optimal play you will probably always be playing female Byleth since the only non-Sylvain difference is class options, and obviously Pegasus and Falcoknight are better than the dark mage and grappler lines. But yeah, I personally prefer to play as male Byleth and it isn't like Wyvern isn't the best class anyway, really.

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From what I'm seeing:

BL: has the easiest early game roster, but has a hard time with Hunting by Daybreak and has easily the worst endgame chapters. Have fun with all the ballistas and ambush spawns/siege units. You do benefit from relics more on this route, however, considering you can potentially get the most on this route (including Failnaught).

BE-E: has the hardest early game roster, but lacks the infamous post-timeskip chapter that everyone else gets. Endgame can be fairly difficult, but you do get Raging Storm abuse and a unit with both Mastermind and Counterattack which can make a good difference. You also lose access to quite a few paralogues here.

GD: is sort of inbetween both BL and BE in terms of early game, has nice rallies available early on. Easiest access to Thyrsus, and Reunion at Dawn is the easiest of the three since you get a free flying unit with Ashes and Dust gambit. Endgame is definitely the easiest of the four, the units don't move unless you attack them or get into their range, and there are not many ambush spawns.

BE-C: has the same early game roster so it's just as hard, but on top of this, you lose your lord and another powerful unit, and has by far the hardest time with the first timeskip chapter. That being said the lategame is similar to GD and the final map is moreso annoying than difficult I'd say. Miracle still sucks and can force divine pulses if unlucky.

Difficulty-wise I would say GD > BE-E > BL > BE-C. Probably not by a whole lot tbh, especially if you're using DLC to grind, in which you can build up your units pretty quickly patching up the underleveled state of your characters.

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56 minutes ago, Fire Flower said:

From what I'm seeing:

BL: has the easiest early game roster, but has a hard time with Hunting by Daybreak and has easily the worst endgame chapters. Have fun with all the ballistas and ambush spawns/siege units. You do benefit from relics more on this route, however, considering you can potentially get the most on this route (including Failnaught).

BE-E: has the hardest early game roster, but lacks the infamous post-timeskip chapter that everyone else gets. Endgame can be fairly difficult, but you do get Raging Storm abuse and a unit with both Mastermind and Counterattack which can make a good difference. You also lose access to quite a few paralogues here.

GD: is sort of inbetween both BL and BE in terms of early game, has nice rallies available early on. Easiest access to Thyrsus, and Reunion at Dawn is the easiest of the three since you get a free flying unit with Ashes and Dust gambit. Endgame is definitely the easiest of the four, the units don't move unless you attack them or get into their range, and there are not many ambush spawns.

BE-C: has the same early game roster so it's just as hard, but on top of this, you lose your lord and another powerful unit, and has by far the hardest time with the first timeskip chapter. That being said the lategame is similar to GD and the final map is moreso annoying than difficult I'd say. Miracle still sucks and can force divine pulses if unlucky.

Difficulty-wise I would say GD > BE-E > BL > BE-C. Probably not by a whole lot tbh, especially if you're using DLC to grind, in which you can build up your units pretty quickly patching up the underleveled state of your characters.

I would switch Empire and BL. The stat benchmarks are much tougher to hit consistently because the Empire route is so much shorter. But I generally agree based on what I've played.

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1 hour ago, Fire Flower said:

From what I'm seeing:

BL: has the easiest early game roster, but has a hard time with Hunting by Daybreak and has easily the worst endgame chapters. Have fun with all the ballistas and ambush spawns/siege units. You do benefit from relics more on this route, however, considering you can potentially get the most on this route (including Failnaught).

BE-E: has the hardest early game roster, but lacks the infamous post-timeskip chapter that everyone else gets. Endgame can be fairly difficult, but you do get Raging Storm abuse and a unit with both Mastermind and Counterattack which can make a good difference. You also lose access to quite a few paralogues here.

GD: is sort of inbetween both BL and BE in terms of early game, has nice rallies available early on. Easiest access to Thyrsus, and Reunion at Dawn is the easiest of the three since you get a free flying unit with Ashes and Dust gambit. Endgame is definitely the easiest of the four, the units don't move unless you attack them or get into their range, and there are not many ambush spawns.

BE-C: has the same early game roster so it's just as hard, but on top of this, you lose your lord and another powerful unit, and has by far the hardest time with the first timeskip chapter. That being said the lategame is similar to GD and the final map is moreso annoying than difficult I'd say. Miracle still sucks and can force divine pulses if unlucky.

Difficulty-wise I would say GD > BE-E > BL > BE-C. Probably not by a whole lot tbh, especially if you're using DLC to grind, in which you can build up your units pretty quickly patching up the underleveled state of your characters.

I dunno - I think you're undercutting Empire, considering that your assessment assumes having DLC, which not all of us do. Second, I'm rather hesitant to hype up a combat art tied to a weapon with only 60 base hit...

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Raging Storm is pretty important on CF route if you actually just do the objective for each map instead of "kill every last one of them". If you just rout all the maps then it's not that useful, but if you're mostly focused on boss kills and utilize it to grab multiple boss kills in a short time, then it's actually an invaluable tool.

All the CF post-timeskip maps are Kill Boss maps, and Edelgard having Raging Storm means that she is the best choice for your primary combat unit (aka the one that is eating the majority of your stat boosters), since a strong Edelgard can kill multiple bosses in one turn, whereas another unit might only be able to kill one.

For example, this is an example of Ch17 CF LTC, which makes very important use of Raging Storm to kill multiple bosses in one turn. The footage is of HM, because there isn't any good recordings of MM LTC, but the strategy for MM is fairly similar.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno - I think you're undercutting Empire, considering that your assessment assumes having DLC, which not all of us do.

Jeritza's free DLC though, so as long you have access to Wi-Fi you should be able to get him with no problems.

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1 hour ago, Moltz23 said:

Jeritza's free DLC though, so as long you have access to Wi-Fi you should be able to get him with no problems.

Oh... I did notice he was in the support list. Then what about Anna? Is she part of the Expansion Pass?

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno - I think you're undercutting Empire, considering that your assessment assumes having DLC, which not all of us do. Second, I'm rather hesitant to hype up a combat art tied to a weapon with only 60 base hit...

Raging Storm adds 10 hit to that. Axe Prowess adds more hit than other prowess lines, so now we're talking 90 hit where say a vanilla silver lance+ attack is 95. You then can and probably should optimize Edelgard's accuracy further with the help of batallions, Accuracy Ring, and linked attacks as necessary. It's an extremely powerful strategy.

Even if you're going for "kill every last one of them", having a combat art which is essentially "kill this opponent, then take another full extra turn" is incredibly good, like having a built-in dance. And you can use this five times apiece on the last two CF maps thanks to the Titanus monsters in Chapter 16.

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On 11/13/2019 at 7:35 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Raging Storm adds 10 hit to that. Axe Prowess adds more hit than other prowess lines, so now we're talking 90 hit where say a vanilla silver lance+ attack is 95. You then can and probably should optimize Edelgard's accuracy further with the help of batallions, Accuracy Ring, and linked attacks as necessary. It's an extremely powerful strategy.

Even if you're going for "kill every last one of them", having a combat art which is essentially "kill this opponent, then take another full extra turn" is incredibly good, like having a built-in dance. And you can use this five times apiece on the last two CF maps thanks to the Titanus monsters in Chapter 16.

I dunno about you, but that's pretty shaky, considering that the enemies that I consider most troublesome by far are swordmasters and assassins. Power doesn't do you a lick of good if you can't hit home, after all. Also, Axe Prowess 5 won't be in play for very long, if at all. And that's ignoring that if I'm playing Maddening, I'd avoid using axes like the plague. RE: battalions and accuracy rings: the latter are very rare, and the only hit boosting battalions that come to mind with a big boost to hit are tied to paralogues after the timeskip.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno about you, but that's pretty shaky, considering that the enemies that I consider most troublesome by far are swordmasters and assassins. Power doesn't do you a lick of good if you can't hit home, after all. Also, Axe Prowess 5 won't be in play for very long, if at all. And that's ignoring that if I'm playing Maddening, I'd avoid using axes like the plague. RE: battalions and accuracy rings: the latter are very rare, and the only hit boosting battalions that come to mind with a big boost to hit are tied to paralogues after the timeskip.

As usual, you're ridiculously dismissive of strategies and you should listen to the multitude of people who do use axes in general/Raging Storm in particular on Maddening and find them extremely effective. How exactly do you propose building Edelgard on Maddening?

I'll repeat: axes are not actually that much less accurate than other options in this game (after prowess skills, they're -5 vs lances and -10 vs swords, in a game which provides many ways to boost accuracy). Overlooking an extremely powerful weapon because "well it's an axe lolol" is something you do at your own peril.

There are in fact multiple batallions available pre-timeskip with +15 hit or more (Cichol Wyverns, Indech Swordfighters, Victor Military, Gloucester Knights) or immediately in stores post-timeskip (Empire Pegasus, Empire Heavy Knights).

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2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

As usual, you're ridiculously dismissive of strategies and you should listen to the multitude of people who do use axes in general/Raging Storm in particular on Maddening and find them extremely effective. How exactly do you propose building Edelgard on Maddening?

I'll repeat: axes are not actually that much less accurate than other options in this game (after prowess skills, they're -5 vs lances and -10 vs swords, in a game which provides many ways to boost accuracy). Overlooking an extremely powerful weapon because "well it's an axe lolol" is something you do at your own peril.

There are in fact multiple batallions available pre-timeskip with +15 hit or more (Cichol Wyverns, Indech Swordfighters, Victor Military, Gloucester Knights) or immediately in stores post-timeskip (Empire Pegasus, Empire Heavy Knights).

I'd rather be distrustful and dismissive than blindly trust others. It's the lesser of two evils, if you ask me. Unlike those people, I am NOT okay with gambling every freaking attack.

Then I'll repeat myself - you will not have level 5 prowess abilities for most of the game, so that accuracy gap is gonna be much wider than that for the majority of the game. Overlooking that power isn't everything is something to do at your own peril, too...

Two of those battalions you mentioned are A ranks - just how long will Edelgard have A authority?? Not very long, I'd imagine. I'd dare say there's a chance she doesn't even make it by the time the game is over because she has a shorter route than the others. The other two you mentioned are tied to the paralogues of units I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to recruit.

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd rather be distrustful and dismissive than blindly trust others. It's the lesser of two evils, if you ask me. Unlike those people, I am NOT okay with gambling every freaking attack.

I'm not okay with gambling every attack either, which is why I suggest a variety of strategies for getting your accuracy higher. I've played Maddening and found my axe-users both very effective and very reliable. In fact, most people consider the wyvern line the single best class in the game, and for obvious reasons axes are a good choice on them. You're not just ignoring my experiences, but a lot of people's.

Yes, you spend some of the game with lower Prowess ranks, but even then the gap is barely wider... it increases by 1 point per prowess rank lower. It seems unlikely you won't have at least B+ by the time you hit the timeskip, so you're really splitting hairs over that 1 point.

Gloucester Knights are B and are attached to a recruit/paralogue you are definitely recruiting anyway because Thyrsus is broken. Empire Pegasus are D. Edelgard is strong in authority and I generally hit A's in strengths around the timeskip myself (also you definitely want someone hitting A authority for those Cichol Wyverns, Edelgard with her authority strength is a good choice), though obviously it depends a bit on exactly what skills you are building and how far.

You side-stepped a major question: how would you build Edelgard?

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8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

You side-stepped a major question: how would you build Edelgard?

I didn't think about it at the time, admittedly. Personally, I'd probably emphasize swords, because I'm not convinced axes are all that and a bag of chips. And because they have low weight, meaning not needing to worry as much about being weighed down. 

8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm not okay with gambling every attack either, which is why I suggest a variety of strategies for getting your accuracy higher. I've played Maddening and found my axe-users both very effective and very reliable. In fact, most people consider the wyvern line the single best class in the game, and for obvious reasons axes are a good choice on them. You're not just ignoring my experiences, but a lot of people's.

Because personal experience means nothing - I can't be assured I'll have the same success with axes you and others had... and I'd much rather not chance it anyway given how dangerous Maddening enemies are. Whiffing and getting bodied on the counter would be, to quote Sonic, NO GOOD.

8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Gloucester Knights are B and are attached to a recruit/paralogue you are definitely recruiting anyway because Thyrsus is broken. Empire Pegasus are D. Edelgard is strong in authority and I generally hit A's in strengths around the timeskip myself (also you definitely want someone hitting A authority for those Cichol Wyverns, Edelgard with her authority strength is a good choice), though obviously it depends a bit on exactly what skills you are building and how far.

I agree with you on Thyrsus, but if I say so myself, it's rather presumptuous to assume that I would go out of my way to recruit Lorenz for that alone... Also, I would note Empire Pegasus is one of the few flying battalions. If I'm giving it to Edelgard just to shore up her hit rates with axes, that means one of my fliers has to go without a battalion... and I'm not sure that the opportunity cost would be worth it.

8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yes, you spend some of the game with lower Prowess ranks, but even then the gap is barely wider... it increases by 1 point per prowess rank lower. It seems unlikely you won't have at least B+ by the time you hit the timeskip, so you're really splitting hairs over that 1 point.

I would say that depends on what skills you're building. Also, looking at Axe and Sword Prowess, the accuracy gap is 18 points at level 1 for both, and decreases by 2 points for every higher rank.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I didn't think about it at the time, admittedly. Personally, I'd probably emphasize swords, because I'm not convinced axes are all that and a bag of chips. And because they have low weight, meaning not needing to worry as much about being weighed down. 

Because personal experience means nothing - I can't be assured I'll have the same success with axes you and others had... and I'd much rather not chance it anyway given how dangerous Maddening enemies are. Whiffing and getting bodied on the counter would be, to quote Sonic, NO GOOD.

I agree with you on Thyrsus, but if I say so myself, it's rather presumptuous to assume that I would go out of my way to recruit Lorenz for that alone... Also, I would note Empire Pegasus is one of the few flying battalions. If I'm giving it to Edelgard just to shore up her hit rates with axes, that means one of my fliers has to go without a battalion... and I'm not sure that the opportunity cost would be worth it.

I would say that depends on what skills you're building. Also, looking at Axe and Sword Prowess, the accuracy gap is 18 points at level 1 for both, and decreases by 2 points for every higher rank.

Swords are not that good on Edelgard because Aymr is not a sword. You cannot be serious here, dude.

Edelgard has enough HP to not get one-rounded in the early game (especially with HP+5 which you can get by Chapter 3) on the off-chance you miss a 95% Smash in 2RN.

You pick up an Accuracy Ring in chapter 5 from a Knight if I recall correctly. They might be "rare" but if Edelgard is ending chapters in two turns reliably with it I would say it is a more worthwhile investment than putting it on someone like Hubert so he can hit Mire more and still not use Raging Storm. Same deal with Empire Pegasus battalion - yeah, another flier COULD use it but they aren't Edelgard, so they won't use it as well. Ending maps in 2 turns offsets any opportunity cost for a unit not named Edelgard in CF. Authority ranks are shockingly easy to build so I don't really understand why that is a point of contention.

Axe Prowess 3 or 4 gives her enough hit to reach reliable numbers against the enemies that matter, none of whom are Assassins or Swordmasters since you really only care about hitting bosses, not to mention the hit boost from linked attacks if seeing a 9 as the first number of your hit rate scares you so much.

In a slower playstyle, sure, it isn't as broken because you are consciously trying not to end chapters in two turns with it, but to say that the strongest strategy in the route is "unreliable" and therefore not that good is just being a contrarian for the sake of it, Levant. Go try it yourself and see just how stupidly good it is.

Edited by De Geso
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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I didn't think about it at the time, admittedly. Personally, I'd probably emphasize swords, because I'm not convinced axes are all that and a bag of chips. And because they have low weight, meaning not needing to worry as much about being weighed down. 

Because personal experience means nothing - I can't be assured I'll have the same success with axes you and others had... and I'd much rather not chance it anyway given how dangerous Maddening enemies are. Whiffing and getting bodied on the counter would be, to quote Sonic, NO GOOD.

I agree with you on Thyrsus, but if I say so myself, it's rather presumptuous to assume that I would go out of my way to recruit Lorenz for that alone... Also, I would note Empire Pegasus is one of the few flying battalions. If I'm giving it to Edelgard just to shore up her hit rates with axes, that means one of my fliers has to go without a battalion... and I'm not sure that the opportunity cost would be worth it.

I would say that depends on what skills you're building. Also, looking at Axe and Sword Prowess, the accuracy gap is 18 points at level 1 for both, and decreases by 2 points for every higher rank.

Ok so your going swordmaster Edelgard, not Pegasus because she sucks at lances, not wyvern because you hate axes and since you hate grappler I doubt you intend her to be a knight. So Assassin? 

Im curious do you have documented success or mathematical proof of what you say or are you just blowing hot air?

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3 hours ago, De Geso said:

Swords are not that good on Edelgard because Aymr is not a sword. You cannot be serious here, dude.

For what it's worth, you can use both. I dual-specialized her, and found the Rapier and Levin Sword super useful on her. While prowess helps, she can use Aymr at any rank. Although I'll grant, it's worth training her in Axes more for acessing Wyverns than anything else.

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25 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

For what it's worth, you can use both. I dual-specialized her, and found the Rapier and Levin Sword super useful on her. While prowess helps, she can use Aymr at any rank. Although I'll grant, it's worth training her in Axes more for acessing Wyverns than anything else.

Yeah she can one-round some enemies with an iron sword on HM which can be useful. But on Maddening you have a much more strict timetable for reaching promotion ranks.

Edited by De Geso
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3 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

Ok so your going swordmaster Edelgard, not Pegasus because she sucks at lances, not wyvern because you hate axes and since you hate grappler I doubt you intend her to be a knight. So Assassin? 

Im curious do you have documented success or mathematical proof of what you say or are you just blowing hot air?

That's very presumptuous of you to assume you have any idea of what I plan to do, wouldn't you say? Also, Grappler is male only anyway, so why'd you bring it up?

On 11/13/2019 at 7:43 AM, De Geso said:

If you're talking about optimal play you will probably always be playing female Byleth since the only non-Sylvain difference is class options, and obviously Pegasus and Falcoknight are better than the dark mage and grappler lines. But yeah, I personally prefer to play as male Byleth and it isn't like Wyvern isn't the best class anyway, really.

I suppose you have a point, but I have a hard time playing as a girl in relationship-heavy games, like this one, which isn't helped by not liking most of the male cast (about the only exceptions are Rune Factory 4 and the Summon Night games). Me not liking female Byleth's design in the slightest just puts a really big nail in that coffin..

 

Edited by Shadow Mir
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1 hour ago, De Geso said:

Yeah she can one-round some enemies with an iron sword on HM which can be useful. But on Maddening you have a much more strict timetable for reaching promotion ranks.

Fair, I imagine on Maddening NG raising her in two weapons wouldn't be practical, especially if you're sending her down Wyvern (in which case, specialize in Axes, and she'll probably just be growing in Authority, Flight, and somewhat Lances, anyway). It's very doable in her personal (requisite-free) classes, but those are... pretty crap, yeah.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's very presumptuous of you to assume you have any idea of what I plan to do, wouldn't you say? Also, Grappler is male only anyway, so why'd you bring it up?

No, you're just going to use swords on a character that is good at swords and axes but not lances and you'll refuse to use axes when the only viable flyer is an axe or lance user. So you're either going to spread out your skill points amongst a ridiculous number of weapon skills you'll never use during a maddening run or your not, that limits the amount of classes you'll take in the latter or you've lost all ground to talk about what's a better use of resources in the former. Regardless the point is that you actually say what your doing and open your own strategies to judgement.

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9 hours ago, De Geso said:

Swords are not that good on Edelgard because Aymr is not a sword. You cannot be serious here, dude.

Edelgard has enough HP to not get one-rounded in the early game (especially with HP+5 which you can get by Chapter 3) on the off-chance you miss a 95% Smash in 2RN.

You pick up an Accuracy Ring in chapter 5 from a Knight if I recall correctly. They might be "rare" but if Edelgard is ending chapters in two turns reliably with it I would say it is a more worthwhile investment than putting it on someone like Hubert so he can hit Mire more and still not use Raging Storm. Same deal with Empire Pegasus battalion - yeah, another flier COULD use it but they aren't Edelgard, so they won't use it as well. Ending maps in 2 turns offsets any opportunity cost for a unit not named Edelgard in CF. Authority ranks are shockingly easy to build so I don't really understand why that is a point of contention.

Axe Prowess 3 or 4 gives her enough hit to reach reliable numbers against the enemies that matter, none of whom are Assassins or Swordmasters since you really only care about hitting bosses, not to mention the hit boost from linked attacks if seeing a 9 as the first number of your hit rate scares you so much.

In a slower playstyle, sure, it isn't as broken because you are consciously trying not to end chapters in two turns with it, but to say that the strongest strategy in the route is "unreliable" and therefore not that good is just being a contrarian for the sake of it, Levant. Go try it yourself and see just how stupidly good it is.

Nice joke there, mate. Aymr has lol60 accuracy. That. Is. Fucking. TERRIBLE. How hard you hit doesn't mean jack nor shit if you miss. I cannot believe I have to tell you this. :facepalm:

I suppose, but it's not about Edelgard so much as it is that miss means I now need someone else to clean up that mess. 

You're right. That's one of three, and the only one you get pre-timeskip (well, if you did pick the Black Eagle House; Edelgard herself would have another one in the second mock battle). The issue is with opportunity cost; someone else might need it more.

Hitting bosses is one thing, but most of the time there's a lot of crap between you and them. The journey is more important than the destination, or so they say.

You already know the answer to that: H-E-L-L N-O! I'll play my way, thank you very much. And I much prefer consistent strategies to powerful ones.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Nice joke there, mate. Aymr has lol60 accuracy. That. Is. Fucking. TERRIBLE. How hard you hit doesn't mean jack nor shit if you miss. I cannot believe I have to tell you this. :facepalm:

I'm repeating myself here, but: there are lots of ways to raise that accuracy.

Aymr is 60. +10 from Raging Storm. +15 from a batallion, potentially more if you want (especially if you aren't using Wyvern Edelgard, for all that I consider Wyvern easily her best class). +20 from axe prowess A (+16 early if you insist). Anywhere from +10 to +40 from linked attacks (Edelgard is lucky enough to support both Meteor users, one of whom is very likely to be played so she has an extra easy time getting linked attack bonuses). +10 from an Accuracy Ring. +20-some from Dex.

= anywhere from 140 to 180 accuracy. Even on Maddening, not many enemies go past 50 avoid, and hardly any go past 60, and most of those that do are Falcon Knights (or Seteth/Ingrid/Dimitri) whom you can set Lancebreaker against. By the way, the Assassins and Swordmasters you weight so highly show up on only one map each (plus Felix), and to be honest even the Assassins are quite Raging Storm-able since they don't have Axebreaker themselves (they have avo in the mid 60's, so if Edelgard can get her hit up to ~145 that's 92% real, and if ~155 that's 98% real, never mind the higher end if you want to be 100% safe).

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
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