The next Avatar should wear a mask

[Jotari]

They've given us a lot of costume options for Byleth in the recent update, but it still kind of sucks that you can't customize an avatar at all really (also battle outfits for classes being useable in the monastery would be nice). I think the reason for this is because they wanted to have Byleth in fmvs. In Awakening they didn't much need Robin in fmvs as Chrom and Lucina mostly had the focus in such moments, but in Fates where they ditched the non Avatar lord, fmvs were kind of awkward where they were mostly shit from Corrin's pov or people talking to Corrin off camera, or in one instance, Corrin's face being obscured. So for Three Houses they decided on a definitive design that the player doesn't choose at the start of the game. That's my theory anyway.

But I have a better solution. Design the next Avatar to wear a helmet or mask in battle. This they can use in fmv scenes and maybe combat (with an option to remove if you choose) while the face underneath the player is free to create. Said avatar would actually have the mask off for most regular cutscenes and supports etc with it being standard battle attire for that character. There we go, best if both worlds. A default design that can be displayed for fmv and stuff like Heroes, while still allowing customisation (DLC or new game+ could even offer the option to swap out the mask for classic ones across the series like the Black Knight or Sirius, though obviously the default one would be the only one used for fmvs, just like the outfits that are in Three Houses already).

[Flere210]

I had the same idea. Hell, having the legendary "weapon" be an armor instead would give the avatar a signature piece of equipment whitout class or weapon locking them. My idea was actually merging the relic and Sothis in a Senketsu-like sidekick.

[samthedigital]

There's also the option to ditch the avatar completely. I like that option more. Failing that having an avatar that is not important to the plot would also work.

[Ottservia]

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But I have a better solution. Design the next Avatar to wear a helmet or mask in battle. This they can use in fmv scenes and maybe combat (with an option to remove if you choose) while the face underneath the player is free to create. Said avatar would actually have the mask off for most regular cutscenes and supports etc with it being standard battle attire for that character. There we go, best if both worlds. A default design that can be displayed for fmv and stuff like Heroes, while still allowing customisation (DLC or new game+ could even offer the option to swap out the mask for classic ones across the series like the Black Knight or Sirius, though obviously the default one would be the only one used for fmvs, just like the outfits that are in Three Houses already).

Isn’t that what they already do with Robin and Kiran though? I mean why else do you think they wear that hood? It’s not a mask sure but the purpose of is the same so that their head and face is obscured in order to use them for pre-rendered CG cutscenes. Robin appears in a couple of them actually with said hood. And Kiran appears in a couple of the heroes Cinematics once again using the hood so the player can self-insert their own appearance onto them. 

The problem with it is that the design itself lacks sufficient enough expression. It’s kinda hard for a character to emote without their face which imo brings a sort of emotional disconnect in the cutscenes but that’s just me.

[Florete]

What about hair? A mask alone likely wouldn't cover up long hair. You'd need a big helmet or a hood like Robin if you want to have long hair options.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

What about hair? A mask alone likely wouldn't cover up long hair. You'd need a big helmet or a hood like Robin if you want to have long hair options.

not just hair but face shape and lips as well. All the mask really covers are the eyes and nose. It does not obscure any other discerning features of the head or face which is a problem especially if you want different build options and for both male and female. A helmet or hood is just a much better option(which is why they already tried that)

[Jotari]

25 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Isn’t that what they already do with Robin and Kiran though? I mean why else do you think they wear that hood? It’s not a mask sure but the purpose of is the same so that their head and face is obscured in order to use them for pre-rendered CG cutscenes. Robin appears in a couple of them actually with said hood. And Kiran appears in a couple of the heroes Cinematics once again using the hood so the player can self-insert their own appearance onto them. 

The problem with it is that the design itself lacks sufficient enough expression. It’s kinda hard for a character to emote without their face which imo brings a sort of emotional disconnect in the cutscenes but that’s just me.

Yeah, but a shadowed hood is a lot more contrived than a helmet. Imagine Robin appearing in as many cutscenes as Byleth with the same focus and we can just never see their face. It'd turn them from looking like a protagonist to looking like a member of Organisation XIII. A mask is a logical and natural way to obscure one's face in any combat oriented situation.

20 minutes ago, Florete said:

What about hair? A mask alone likely wouldn't cover up long hair. You'd need a big helmet or a hood like Robin if you want to have long hair options.

I've seen enough anime to know that's not necessarily the case.

15 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

not just hair but face shape and lips as well. All the mask really covers are the eyes and nose. It does not obscure any other discerning features of the head or face which is a problem especially if you want different build options and for both male and female. A helmet or hood is just a much better option(which is why they already tried that)

When I say mask I really mean something more helmet like in design. Like say the Death Knight's "mask". Something that covers the entire head (though with more traditional eye mask style things being an option for alternative costumes in regular cutscenes).

Edited November 15, 2019 by Jotari

[Ottservia]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, but a shadowed hood is a lot more contrived than a helmet. Imagine Robin appearing in as many cutscenes as Byleth with the same focus and we can just never see their face. It'd turn them from looking like a protagonist to looking like a member of Organisation XIII. A mask is a logical and natural way to obscure one's face in any combat oriented situation.

yeah but a mask does not account for other features like jaw line, hair color, height, hairstyle, lips(well depending on the mask anyway), etc. Those things are important depending on the amount of customization you want. If I want my avatar to have red twintails a mask will not cover that up. In prerendered cutscenes everything is animated before hand unlike in-engine ones which can be altered accordingly with the player's choices. If you want 15 different hair styles and colors as well as different build options for each gender you're gonna need more than a mask to cover all that up in cutscenes so that the animators don't have to make 30 or so different versions of the same scene to account for all the possibilities. It's just easier to have to make one or two versions so it's not clogging up space on the cartridge. A simple mask is just not enough. A darkened hood or helmet would do the job just fine though but that comes with it's own problems

[Interdimensional Observer]

51 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

I had the same idea. Hell, having the legendary "weapon" be an armor instead would give the avatar a signature piece of equipment whitout class or weapon locking them. My idea was actually merging the relic and Sothis in a Senketsu-like sidekick.

I was thinking something like old Soulcalibur II's Necrid's weapon:

Spoiler

 

It's not as creative as I remember it was, but it still makes a point. At different times in the above video, Necrid's weapon takes the forms of:

• One large sword.
• Twin swords.
• One large axe.
• Whip sword.
• A handheld sphere- this it its default form tucked away when he isn't using his weapon.

Yet, at its essence, Necrid wields pure energy, it simply changes its form as Necrid attacks.

 

-But now I've realized the titular weapons of the franchise are even better examples. The Soulcalibur weapon and its evil counterpart the Soul Edge have no definitive form, they take the form most suited to the fighting style of its current wielder.

• If Nightmare/Siegfried uses Soulcalibur or Soul Edge, they take the form of a giant two-handed zweihander.
• If Cassandra/Sophitia/Link use one of these, it takes the form of a one-handed sword and shield, with the exact sword and shield differing for each of these characters.
• Raphael gets a rapier.
• Ivy gets a whip sword.
• Cervantes gets two double-edged swords, the smaller one with a gun in its hilt.
• Mitsurugi gets a katana.
• Yoshimitsu gets a katana and a banner flag.
• Take has ninja knives/kodachi.
• Kilik gets a long bo staff.
• Seong Mi-na a Zanbatou- bladed polearm like a naginata.
• Yun-seong a dao sword.
• Xianghua a jian sword.
• Voldo, dual katars.
• Taki, dual bladed tonfas.
• Maxi has nunchaku.
• Astaroth gets a giant axe.
• Spawn has a smaller axe.
• Heihachi has gauntlets.

The possible forms for Soulcalibur and Soul Edge are as endless as there are unique fighting styles.

Why not just give Makrocoby the 6th the Soulcalibur/Edge? Does he/she prefer swords- it's a sword. Do they prefer lances or axes? It's a lance or axe. A gauntlet? Let there be one for each hand. A bow or throwing knives? Why not? Takumi has laser arrows, so Soulcalibur ammo isn't a problem. Does he/she prefer magic? Well, just convert it into a powerful spell, Necrid's Soul Edge is a sphere of malevolent energy "Enigma" in its unaltered form, that's pretty "magical" to me.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Florete]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I've seen enough anime to know that's not necessarily the case.

Good point, anime is very realistic, after all.

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

yeah but a mask does not account for other features like jaw line, hair color, height, hairstyle, lips(well depending on the mask anyway), etc. Those things are important depending on the amount of customization you want. If I want my avatar to have red twintails a mask will not cover that up. In prerendered cutscenes everything is animated before hand unlike in-engine ones which can be altered accordingly with the player's choices. If you want 15 different hair styles and colors as well as different build options for each gender you're gonna need more than a mask to cover all that up in cutscenes so that the animators don't have to make 30 or so different versions of the same scene to account for all the possibilities. It's just easier to have to make one or two versions so it's not clogging up space on the cartridge. A simple mask is just not enough. A darkened hood or helmet would do the job just fine though but that comes with it's own problems

I never meant a simple mask. I meant something covering the entire head. I thought that would have been obvious from the context. From henceforth when I say mask, I mean helmet. Like when they say this guy wears a mask.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ycRHBJSoJwB4782t5

 

26 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

not just hair but face shape and lips as well. All the mask really covers are the eyes and nose. It does not obscure any other discerning features of the head or face which is a problem especially if you want different build options and for both male and female. A helmet or hood is just a much better option(which is why they already tried that)

Edited November 15, 2019 by Jotari

[Ottservia]

Just now, Jotari said:

I never meant a simple mask. I meant something covering the entire head. I thought that would have been obvious from the context. From henceforth when I say mask, I mean helmet. Like when they say this guy wears a mask.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ycRHBJSoJwB4782t5

oh okay then that makes sense sorry you're mention of maybe using masks like Sirus's as a DLC cosmetic confused me a little bit. I apologize.

[AnonymousSpeed]

8 minutes ago, Florete said:

Good point, anime is very realistic, after all.

I disapprove of anime as much as the next guy, but we don't need to be passive aggressive about it.

57 minutes ago, samthedigital said:

There's also the option to ditch the avatar completely. I like that option more.

This is a pretty good choice, I think.

***

Though, if they did make an avatar using some variation of this idea, you could simply have them always be wearing a helmet or whatever. Then you can project whatever appearance you want underneath, instead of being restricted by a character creator which only lets you make a still portrait.
It would actually be a novel look for the avatar to never be visible uncovered, and it would be more inclusive of conservative Muslim women.

[Florete]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I disapprove of anime as much as the next guy, but we don't need to be passive aggressive about it.

I only meant it as a lighthearted joke, but Jotari already said that he means more of a helmet (which is what I said in my first post), so it's w/e.

[vanguard333]

Maybe the avatar is cursed by the villain into taking on a monstrous appearance, then, when the curse is lifted, it is condensed into a mask that allows the avatar to take on that form at will?

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 minute ago, vanguard333 said:

Maybe the avatar is cursed by the villain into taking on a monstrous appearance, then, when the curse is lifted, it is condensed into a mask that allows the avatar to take on that form at will?

Oh heck, that'd actually be kind of cool. A weird combination of shapeshifting units with the Twilight Princess wolf form.

[vanguard333]

Just now, AnonymousSpeed said:

Oh heck, that'd actually be kind of cool. A weird combination of shapeshifting units with the Twilight Princess wolf form.

It was actually a reference to the Deku Mask in Majora's Mask. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Just now, vanguard333 said:

It was actually a reference to the Deku Mask in Majora's Mask. 

Take it a step further and let the main character gather a multitude of masks over the course of the game, letting you play as every monster enemy as pleases you.

[vanguard333]

Just now, AnonymousSpeed said:

Take it a step further and let the main character gather a multitude of masks over the course of the game, letting you play as every monster enemy as pleases you.

That'd be neat. I meant all this entirely actually as a joke, but it could be neat. 

 

For a more serious idea, perhaps maybe the helmet is actually a cursed individual, and they provide assistance, mentorship, and some kind of unique magical power. As much as having yet another character-in-the-avatar's-head would be a repeat of Sothis, I think it could be interesting in its own right. 

I just described Ezlo in Minish Cap; didn't I? Why is this happening?

[Dandy Druid]

Wait, I thought you could already wear battle costumes in the monastery? Unless I'm mistaken, you can select it in the Unit Appearance menu. 

[The Roger The Paladin]

1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Wait, I thought you could already wear battle costumes in the monastery? Unless I'm mistaken, you can select it in the Unit Appearance menu. 

Pretty sure that the option is to wear monastery costumes in battle. Either that or my Byleth is being a complete dick and wearing those robes into battle while he's supposed to be a thief so the enemies think he's actually just a commoner... but he's not.

[Garlyle]

In my opinion, a Fire Emblem game doesn't really need an avatar character. I actually enjoyed the games better when they didn't have one. Three Houses is better from them, but it could've worked without an avatar as well.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Wait, I thought you could already wear battle costumes in the monastery? Unless I'm mistaken, you can select it in the Unit Appearance menu. 

Nope. Only the inverse. You can use the custom outfits in battle, but not the battle specific outfits in cutscenes a monastery gameplay.

[Zihark11]

They just shouldnt make a silent protagonist and actually give us a real lord or hero. 

[NinjaMonkey]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

Said avatar would actually have the mask off for most regular cutscenes

Why not make all the cutscenes be these, then? That way you don't need to have the avatar character wear a mask at all.