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Armagon

Star Wars: The Clone Wars is a masterpiece.

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Over the past few weeks, i was binge-watching the current six seasons of Star Wars: The Clone Wars in preparation for season 7, which i thought was gonna be part of Disney+'s launch lineup but it doesn't actually come out until Feburary 2020. Anyways, this was one of those shows i enjoyed a lot as a kid but kinda fell out of it. Fast forward to today and as i'm rewatching the series, i realize "oh shit, this has some of the best stories in the Star Wars has to offer".

What makes The Clone Wars so fucking good is just the variety of topics it covers. Just because the show is called "The Clone Wars" does not mean that every episode was about the Clone Wars. A lot of episodes were, sure. But you also had plenty of episodes that focused on the Jedi themselves, the politics (this show makes the politics of the Star Wars universe actually interesting unlike the Prequels). Even Clone-focused episodes weren't neccisarly about the war. And some episodes just straight-up had nothing to do with the bigger Star Wars universe in general. For example, all the stuff with Darth Maul was it's own thing. The stories involving Darth Maul had nothing to do with the Clone Wars. Because of the variety of stories, not one episode in this show felt like filler to me, which i definitly would have said if i was younger. When i was younger, all i wanted out of the show was the lightsaber duels and the big battles. Whenever an episode came up that wasn't that, i remember not being engaged. That's not how i feel anymore. I enjoyed every episode. Not every episode was amazing but i wouldn't really call any of them bad. Even the worst episodes were still fun to watch. Some episodes had very little physical conflict, instead being more philosophical. Speaking of, at the start of every episode, there's a little quote (not sure if it's from actual people or not) that basically feels like advice a wiseman might give you and these quotes were basically hints about what the episode was about or would explore.

What's also great about The Clone Wars is how much the show improves as it goes on. Visually, the first season looks the worst. I noticed that sometimes the animation comes off as a bit stiff and this kinda continues into the second season. Come the third season however, and you can see the big improvements of the budget. This is easily noticable once the designs of certain characters change. The animation and the visuals in the fifth and sixth season in particular are really good. So good, it feels like it has a movie budget at times.

I also love just how well the episodes flow with each other. The Clone Wars is an anthology series. Not every episode is in chronological order and you can tell, sure, but it's never something that took me out of the experience. I also recommend against watching the series in chronological order because the transition between the better budget of later seasons and earlier seasons might actually be immersion breaking.

Because of the show's structure, there was never one main character. Sometimes it was Anakin, sometimes it was Obi-Wan, sometimes it was Darth Maul, sometimes it was R2-D2. However, there are three characters in the show that i'd say that "yeah, this is their show": Anakin, Ashoka and Captain Rex. Ashoka and Rex among the best characters in the franchise in my opinion. Seeing Ashoka grow as a character was great and while Captain Rex doesn't develop as much, i still felt like this was his show. As for Anakin, this show made him far more interesting than the Prequels made him out to be. You see Anakin's slow descent into the dark side and how he noticiably becomes more aggressive as the show goes on. And what makes it so interesting is the rather Shakespearean characterstics of it. The show shows you all these positive qualites of Anakin and yet it's because of these qualities that Anakin eventually falls to the dark side and becomes Darth Vader.

The Clone Wars is a masterpiece but it's not without it's flaws. Nothing is. Again, the animation in the first and maybe second seasons can be a bit off but if there's one real criticism i have to give to the show, it's how much of a joke it made General Grevious to be. He is not threatning at all. He's never really given an oppertunity to shine, which is a shame because pretty much every other major villain in the series does.

In conclusion, watch The Clone Wars.

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I only remember one episode, but it was about a new batch of Troopers, where one of the vets calls them 'shinies' because their armor hasn't been tarnished by battle yet. Dang good episode that was incredibly moving.

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I used to watch the Clone Wars when I was younger (and it was on TV). And I can definitely say that it was quite enjoyable.

I LOVE the episodes where R2-D2 went missing... wow!

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9 hours ago, Armagon said:

The Clone Wars is a masterpiece but it's not without it's flaws. Nothing is. Again, the animation in the first and maybe second seasons can be a bit off but if there's one real criticism i have to give to the show, it's how much of a joke it made General Grevious to be. He is not threatning at all. He's never really given an oppertunity to shine, which is a shame because pretty much every other major villain in the series does.

Was Grievous ever threatening to begin with? I remember in Episode III, he was more of a filler villain than anything else. Sure, the four lightsabers at once thing was badass, but he got dispatched so quickly it felt like him being a non-threat was the intention.

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8 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Was Grievous ever threatening to begin with? I remember in Episode III, he was more of a filler villain than anything else. Sure, the four lightsabers at once thing was badass, but he got dispatched so quickly it felt like him being a non-threat was the intention.

Watch the Star Wars: Clone Wars animated shorts from before RotS came out to understand why people take umbrage with Grievous's depiction in TCW.

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The thing about Genndy Grievous was that is was made before episode 3. Meaning he did not have a set personality that that time. But later on he was characterized as a cowardly villain.  Ventress was also rewritten to have a different outcome before and after Disney,

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If I start talking about how great the Clone Wars is I won't be able to stop so I'll try my best to keep this as brief as possible:

The Clone Wars makes Revenge of the Sith the best Star Wars movie. Also, Dutchess Satine is a thing. Also I grew up with this show and still watch it and I'm totally not biased whatsoever.

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1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Was Grievous ever threatening to begin with? I remember in Episode III, he was more of a filler villain than anything else. Sure, the four lightsabers at once thing was badass, but he got dispatched so quickly it felt like him being a non-threat was the intention.

Grevious in the movies was basically the Boba Fett of the Prequels. Cause Boba Fett also wasn't threatning in the OT. He's there and then he dies, though granted, Grevious did more than Boba if we look at just the the movies.

The problem with Grevious in TCW is that nothing interesting is done with his character. TCW takes all the dumb shit of the Prequel Trilogy and makes it actually good except for Grevious.

What i'm saying is that the leader of the droid army who is known for killing Jedi and taking their lightsabers as trophies should be not be defeated by Jar Jar.

Side note: Jar Jar is actually kinda good in this show. He's still an idiot but he's actually somewhat competent. But he still had no right in defeating Grevious.

1 hour ago, Jingle Jangle said:

The thing about Genndy Grievous was that is was made before episode 3. Meaning he did not have a set personality that that time. But later on he was characterized as a cowardly villain.  Ventress was also rewritten to have a different outcome before and after Disney,

Counterpoint: Genndy Wars was supposed to directly lead into Revenge of the Sith. Haven't seen Genndy Wars myself (i plan on it tho just to see how it compares to TCW) but doesn't one of the last episodes directly lead into the opening of Episode III? And that series was canon at the time.

Edited by Armagon

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1 hour ago, Jingle Jangle said:

The thing about Genndy Grievous was that is was made before episode 3. Meaning he did not have a set personality that that time. But later on he was characterized as a cowardly villain.  Ventress was also rewritten to have a different outcome before and after Disney,

I know that. I, and others, don't care for his later characterization. It's lame - he would have been much more interesting as a ruthless Jedi killer (like in Genndy Wars) rather than a snake.

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Counterpoint: Genndy Wars was supposed to directly lead into Revenge of the Sith. Haven't seen Genndy Wars myself (i plan on it tho just to see how it compares to TCW) but doesn't one of the last episodes directly lead into the opening of Episode III? And that series was canon at the time.

You are correct.

Edited by De Geso

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2 hours ago, De Geso said:

Watch the Star Wars: Clone Wars animated shorts from before RotS came out to understand why people take umbrage with Grievous's depiction in TCW.

 

50 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Grevious in the movies was basically the Boba Fett of the Prequels. Cause Boba Fett also wasn't threatning in the OT. He's there and then he dies, though granted, Grevious did more than Boba if we look at just the the movies.

The problem with Grevious in TCW is that nothing interesting is done with his character. TCW takes all the dumb shit of the Prequel Trilogy and makes it actually good except for Grevious.

What i'm saying is that the leader of the droid army who is known for killing Jedi and taking their lightsabers as trophies should be not be defeated by Jar Jar.

Side note: Jar Jar is actually kinda good in this show. He's still an idiot but he's actually somewhat competent. But he still had no right in defeating Grevious.

Ah, I see. Haven't seen the shows myself (still read the review because of my passing interest in Star Wars), so the movie was the only thing I could bring up.
Thanks for the clear-up, both of you!

Also, yes, losing to Jar Jar Binks means your credibility has officially descended into the negatives. XP

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it is a very underrated series. Im also rewatching the 6 seasons for the 3rd time cause season 7. im curious on where they are gonna go with it.  

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4 minutes ago, Zihark11 said:

it is a very underrated series. Im also rewatching the 6 seasons for the 3rd time cause season 7. im curious on where they are gonna go with it.  

I believe that the 7th season is going to have the unfinished episodes completed. The Utapau crisis, Bad Batch, and the Siege of Mandalore from the Ahsoka novel.

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If there's one thing that tempts me to get Disney+ it's being able to rewatch The Clone Wars. It's the show that justifies the prequel's existence ten fold in so many ways, especially with it's characters, both new and old. I'm a particularly big fan of seasons 3 and 4 where there were these big epic 4 episode arcs that left me dying to know what would happen next week in and week out when it was still airing. I cannot tell you how many times I watched my DVR recordings of the Darkened World of Umbara arc.  That was all long time ago, but it certainly had a lasting impact on me as a Star Wars fan, I just hope Disney let's Dave Filoni and the rest of the Clone Wars team make season 7 just as awesome.

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18 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Was Grievous ever threatening to begin with? I remember in Episode III, he was more of a filler villain than anything else. Sure, the four lightsabers at once thing was badass, but he got dispatched so quickly it felt like him being a non-threat was the intention.

I always found General Grievous to be one of the strangest characters out there. In the movie he's just a quirky miniboss who's a coward to boot. Then suddenly in the cartoons he becomes this ultimate baddass who can dominate multiple Jedi masters at once despite there being nothing in the movie to suggest he was ever a big deal. 

I think Grievous was made weaker in the newer cartoons to get him off that big pedestal he never really belonged on. It retains some of his more baddass qualities from the cartoon while keeping in mind that the movie version of Grievous was never supposed to be very impressive. 

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I found it a major snooze fest personally. Unlike the OP, I felt like the show was nothing but filler. None of the characters aside from Asoka really seemed like they had any room to truly develop given their fates were already predetermined by the movies. And they couldn't even meet Grevious without clashing with the canon, despite the fact that they obviously wanted to use him a tonne. I gave it a season and a half of grace before dropping it. One of the nails in the coffin for me was hearing they brought back Maul. People assured me he was really cool and great in it, but I just feel there is no justifiable reason to have Maul survive his death in the Phantom Menace. It was a death of ridiculous certainty for one, but more importantly, Maul was never all that complex or important character. He looked cool. but his role in the Phantom Menace was purely as a grunt to show off sick light saber battles and alert the Jedi to the fact that the Sith are still around. He had no depth beyond that. I think he only had a single line of dialogue in the movie, and even that I think they should have removed and left him as a silent antagonist. Maybe his arc in the Clone Wars is amazing, but it has absolutely no reason to be Maul's arc as he didn't have any kind of foundation as a character to work with.

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17 hours ago, TheGoodHoms said:

I watched my DVR recordings of the Darkened World of Umbara arc.  

Yo, that arc was so good. It's probably my favorite arc of season 4.

17 hours ago, TheGoodHoms said:

I just hope Disney let's Dave Filoni and the rest of the Clone Wars team make season 7 just as awesome.

From the trailers they put out, season 7 appears to be the best looking season yet.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I always found General Grievous to be one of the strangest characters out there. In the movie he's just a quirky miniboss who's a coward to boot. Then suddenly in the cartoons he becomes this ultimate baddass who can dominate multiple Jedi masters at once despite there being nothing in the movie to suggest he was ever a big deal. 

It's actually the opposite. Grevious first canonical appearance (back then, not anymore) was in Genndy Wars, which aired before Revenge of the Sith. So Grevious went from a badass to a coward and a coward was what he remained since.

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4 hours ago, Jotari said:

I found it a major snooze fest personally. Unlike the OP, I felt like the show was nothing but filler. None of the characters aside from Asoka really seemed like they had any room to truly develop given their fates were already predetermined by the movies. And they couldn't even meet Grevious without clashing with the canon, despite the fact that they obviously wanted to use him a tonne. I gave it a season and a half of grace before dropping it. One of the nails in the coffin for me was hearing they brought back Maul. People assured me he was really cool and great in it, but I just feel there is no justifiable reason to have Maul survive his death in the Phantom Menace. It was a death of ridiculous certainty for one, but more importantly, Maul was never all that complex or important character. He looked cool. but his role in the Phantom Menace was purely as a grunt to show off sick light saber battles and alert the Jedi to the fact that the Sith are still around. He had no depth beyond that. I think he only had a single line of dialogue in the movie, and even that I think they should have removed and left him as a silent antagonist. Maybe his arc in the Clone Wars is amazing, but it has absolutely no reason to be Maul's arc as he didn't have any kind of foundation as a character to work with.

The first two season of the show are easily the weakest, season 3 and onward are the real reasons everyone loves the show. If you're a big Star Wars fan I high recommend giving it a second chance starting from that point. Darth Maul's return from the grave does admittedly require some suspension of disbelief on the viewer's part, but once you get past it he's a really great archenemy to Obi-Wan, driven by an obsessive personal vendetta against Kenobi.

But don't let me pressure you into watching if you really don't think it's worth it, I just wanted to share my opinion.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

One of the nails in the coffin for me was hearing they brought back Maul. People assured me he was really cool and great in it, but I just feel there is no justifiable reason to have Maul survive his death in the Phantom Menace. It was a death of ridiculous certainty for one, but more importantly, Maul was never all that complex or important character.

I wanna talk about that bolded part. Yes, it's true that Maul in Phantom Menace was nothing. He had like one line and that was it. Sure, he killed Qui-Gon but Qui-Gon had to die. However, just because Maul originally wasn't complex or important does not mean interesting stuff couldn't be done with him. You who know who else wasn't complex or important? Boba Fett. You could take Boba Fett out of the OT and nothing would change. Did he even speak? I deadass don't remember. Anyways, Boba Fett does nothing in the OT and then Han Solo unintentionally knocks him into the Sarlacc Pit. Boba Fett did less than Maul, because at least Maul killed someone important. And yet, that didn't stop people from writing Boba Fett stories. Before the Disney buyout, Boba Fett had a shit ton of stories involving him after his "death". Same thing with Maul. People thought Maul was cool, they wanted more stories with him. Is it kinda weird that Maul survived being cut in half? Sure. But Star Wars can get really weird. A lot of it is non-canon anymore because of Disney but Maul surviving being cut in half is pretty tame compared to some of the weirder stuff in the Star Wars universe. Star Wars is one of those franchises where you kinda just have to accept the dumb shit.

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On 11/20/2019 at 2:50 AM, Armagon said:

I wanna talk about that bolded part. Yes, it's true that Maul in Phantom Menace was nothing. He had like one line and that was it. Sure, he killed Qui-Gon but Qui-Gon had to die. However, just because Maul originally wasn't complex or important does not mean interesting stuff couldn't be done with him. You who know who else wasn't complex or important? Boba Fett. You could take Boba Fett out of the OT and nothing would change. Did he even speak? I deadass don't remember. Anyways, Boba Fett does nothing in the OT and then Han Solo unintentionally knocks him into the Sarlacc Pit. Boba Fett did less than Maul, because at least Maul killed someone important. And yet, that didn't stop people from writing Boba Fett stories. Before the Disney buyout, Boba Fett had a shit ton of stories involving him after his "death". Same thing with Maul. People thought Maul was cool, they wanted more stories with him. Is it kinda weird that Maul survived being cut in half? Sure. But Star Wars can get really weird. A lot of it is non-canon anymore because of Disney but Maul surviving being cut in half is pretty tame compared to some of the weirder stuff in the Star Wars universe. Star Wars is one of those franchises where you kinda just have to accept the dumb shit.

Sure, any character can have the potential to be great when they're a complete and utter blank slate. That's nothing but potential because it's also nothing. Boba Fett's popularity I do also find baffling. Though at least, unlike Maul, he had some semblance of personal motive that can be worked with. I've also heard that one of the reasons for his popularity is that in the early days of the franchise he was legally the only somewhat major character people could publish fanfics of for profit. Of course we also have things like Lif coming in the top 10 Choose Your Legends in Fire Emblem Heroes when all we'd seen of him was a trailer at that point. Which just goes to show someone doesn't have to be a good character, or even a character at all to be popular. A good visual design can do 90% of the work.

Edited by Jotari

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On 11/19/2019 at 2:50 PM, Armagon said:

I wanna talk about that bolded part. Yes, it's true that Maul in Phantom Menace was nothing. He had like one line and that was it. Sure, he killed Qui-Gon but Qui-Gon had to die. However, just because Maul originally wasn't complex or important does not mean interesting stuff couldn't be done with him. You who know who else wasn't complex or important? Boba Fett. You could take Boba Fett out of the OT and nothing would change. Did he even speak? I deadass don't remember. Anyways, Boba Fett does nothing in the OT and then Han Solo unintentionally knocks him into the Sarlacc Pit. Boba Fett did less than Maul, because at least Maul killed someone important. And yet, that didn't stop people from writing Boba Fett stories. Before the Disney buyout, Boba Fett had a shit ton of stories involving him after his "death". Same thing with Maul. People thought Maul was cool, they wanted more stories with him. Is it kinda weird that Maul survived being cut in half? Sure. But Star Wars can get really weird. A lot of it is non-canon anymore because of Disney but Maul surviving being cut in half is pretty tame compared to some of the weirder stuff in the Star Wars universe. Star Wars is one of those franchises where you kinda just have to accept the dumb shit.

Boba Fett spoke a few times in Empire Strikes Back. I remember there was some frustration from fans of the OT when they changed his voice to match Jango Fett's, since it was decided he was a clone instead of a normal man.

You couldn't really take him out, since he was the one who brought Solo to Jabba's Palace - that's a pretty pivotal part of the story. He's no main villain but he isn't Bossk or IG-88 who do exactly nothing (and even they got EU material after them).

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I remember a friend showing me one of those episode collection DVDs you can get at the library once back when I was in grade school. I remember the episodes being pretty good, even though we were both shocked at how many clones were killed and how they stayed dead. I still don't know if my friend repeatedly saying "don't worry, he survived..." were attempts to reassure me or himself.

I've seen the clips about the show here and there and was impressed by what I saw, but I never really had the opportunity to watch a full episode. Thanks to Disney+, our family watched the first episode last Monday. Overall, we really enjoyed it, and while I can already see what people mean by the writing getting better in the third season, I am curious in seeing how the show improves as time goes on.

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@Hawkwing if you want to, the Clone Wars pilot movie is also on Disney+. It's not required to watch in order to enjoy the TV series but it does provide some extra context to some of the episodes. Fun fact though, in the Clone Wars movie, Count Dooku is voiced by Christopher Lee, which is the last time Lee takes on a Star Wars role. Dooku in the TV series is voiced by someone else.

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4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

@Hawkwing if you want to, the Clone Wars pilot movie is also on Disney+. It's not required to watch in order to enjoy the TV series but it does provide some extra context to some of the episodes. Fun fact though, in the Clone Wars movie, Count Dooku is voiced by Christopher Lee, which is the last time Lee takes on a Star Wars role. Dooku in the TV series is voiced by someone else.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out next time I get the chance. Interesting to hear that that was Christopher Lee's last time being Count Dooku.

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On 11/21/2019 at 8:24 PM, Hawkwing said:

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out next time I get the chance. Interesting to hear that that was Christopher Lee's last time being Count Dooku.

Rest In Peace, Christopher Lee.

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