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Dragoncat

Serious vent/rant/musing on being creative

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I'll just copy paste what I said on Discord here to begin with.

Quote

DragoncatToday at 7:51 AM
Question guys. Do I brag about the supposed quality of my fic stuff too much? Does it make you question if it's good? Should I stop saying it's "gold" or anything of that nature and let it speak for itself? Am I wrong for wanting to draw attention to it? Or should I just ignore that one guy on reddit?
I am afraid I am becoming a cringe fic writer. The very stereotype I swore to destroy

Where do you draw the line between somebody being happy with what they have created and wanting discussion and feedback and annoying troll fic writer? Not considering the content of said creation because that's another can of worms.

For context, it was a discussion about what if the 10 Elites had dialogue with their scions in the final battle of Golden Deer route. I wrote some, and I would share it if it wasn't for this issue I'm having. Somebody provided Claude's dialogue with Reigan and from that, the Elites appear to not be able to speak. I said "too bad, because my exchanges are gold". Some guy said "they're not but I glad you like them". To which I accused him of being a fanfic/creativity hater, to which he said "if you have to brag about the quality of it I have doubts about how good it is".

I really love the creative side of fandoms. I love it. A lot. I thrive on it. To the point where I have said I don't get the people who only want to talk about gameplay mechanics, and have said "if they only care about the gameplay in FE, they should play chess instead". I have never seen myself as an obnoxious rabid trollfic writer. I've always tried to keep the characters in character, even if I've exaggerated their character traits for jokes once in awhile. Those are just jokes. And when I create fankids, I use proper genetics (no pink hair + brown hair = blue hair) and don't let them get OP/wonderbaby. Some canon things get away with both those, have you SEEN the likes of Sailor Moon? I read and recommend Springhole.net, which has insight on how to do things in fanfic properly and skillfully. Am I a cringe trollfic writer for making joke scenes and fankids, even if I personally think they're done well?

Cutting this rant here, not much else to say except if I have annoyed you in the past, this is my apology. Yeah. Help me out here.

EDIT - Here is the comment chain if anyone needs it.

Edited by Dragoncat

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Personally, as somewhat of a creative myself, I think it’s fine to have confidence in one’s work. If you genuinely think you’ve created something worth experiencing then by all means share it. Show it to others and tell them about the thought and work you put into it. Though there is a bit of line when it goes from confidence to arrogance and I think that’s what happened. It’s fine to be confident but it’s another thing entirely to shut down legitimate criticism to protect one’s ego. I should know I’ve done it before. Now not all criticism you’ll hear is valid mind you lord knows I see too much of that on the internet(coughfatescough) but if someone thinks something you did is bad, I don’t think the proper response is to immediately out them as a hater. All he said was “I don’t think what you wrote is good, but if you like it fine” which doesn’t warrant such a vitriolic response in all honesty. 
 

As a creator you should always be striving to improve. Never and I mean never get complacent with your current skill level cause that just leads to stagnation which is the bane of any creator. If someone says something you make is bad then take the opportunity to listen to them and hear what they have to say so you can tuck it away for next time and improve upon it.

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3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

but if someone thinks something you did is bad, I don’t think the proper response is to immediately out them as a hater. All he said was “I don’t think what you wrote is good, but if you like it fine” which doesn’t warrant such a vitriolic response in all honesty. 

Yeah, I realize this, and feel bad about it.

3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

If someone says something you make is bad then take the opportunity to listen to them and hear what they have to say so you can tuck it away for next time and improve upon it.

Thing is some people will just say it's bad and nothing else. Like this guy didn't say why it was bad. He just said he didn't like it.

For reference, I took what he said on the second thing, that I was bragging, and edited the bragging out, so yeah.

Edited by Dragoncat

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Just now, Dragoncat said:

Thing is some people will just say it's bad and nothing else. Like this guy didn't say why it was bad. He just said he didn't like it.

Well then ask why he thought it was bad and if he can’t give a proper response then his opinion means nothing to you anyway. It’s impossible to please everyone cause different people have different tastes and that’s fine. You just gotta be able to discern good criticism from bad criticism.

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27 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You just gotta be able to discern good criticism from bad criticism.

This is inherently hard to do for some, since they're protective of their work. But it does behoove the creator to know which hill to die on, so to speak. As a certain prince said, pick fights that you can win.

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2 minutes ago, Karimlan said:

This is inherently hard to do for some, since they're protective of their work. But it does behoove the creator to know which hill to die on, so to speak. As a certain prince said, pick fights that you can win.

I like to think I can, but sometimes in the heat of the moment it gets difficult.

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"If you have to brag about the quality of it I have doubts about how good it is," sounds like super edge and is super cringey.

You shared the material with that group, right?  If you did, then that guy's input is utterly worthless because it sounds like they didn't actually read it.  But if you didn't share it, then he has fair reason to doubt you, even if he's having a shitty attitude about it, because it's basically like if a guy came to you telling you how he singlehandedly killed a bear with his bare hands, but doesn't have any video proof to back it up.

Considering the fact that the people of EA feel pride in themselves for putting out absolute garbage, copying ideas from other games (e.g. giving Battlefield V a "Royal" mode), and still making money out of all of it, I feel there are worse things to feel confident and proud in than a fan fiction.

Of course, the matter of actually appealing to potential new readers interest is a different matter.  First, you do need the proper materials/resume to actually back up your claims.  It does help that you talk about your writing's quality rather than the quality of yourself as a writer, but you need ample proof of your claims to be taken as legitimate.  Naturally, some people are just contrarian assholes and like to tear down those who are confident in their own works, but if the quality is solid then you'll find more people praising it than tearing it down.  If someone talks about why they dislike what you've written beyond dumb, simple or vague statements like "the characters suck" - if they tell you specific things like "Claude's conversation with Reigan is way too sappy" - then that's constructive criticism.  Otherwise, their input is about as worthwhile as a small rock being chucked at your head.

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16 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

"If you have to brag about the quality of it I have doubts about how good it is," sounds like super edge and is super cringey.

You shared the material with that group, right?  If you did, then that guy's input is utterly worthless because it sounds like they didn't actually read it.  But if you didn't share it, then he has fair reason to doubt you, even if he's having a shitty attitude about it, because it's basically like if a guy came to you telling you how he singlehandedly killed a bear with his bare hands, but doesn't have any video proof to back it up.

Considering the fact that the people of EA feel pride in themselves for putting out absolute garbage, copying ideas from other games (e.g. giving Battlefield V a "Royal" mode), and still making money out of all of it, I feel there are worse things to feel confident and proud in than a fan fiction.

Of course, the matter of actually appealing to potential new readers interest is a different matter.  First, you do need the proper materials/resume to actually back up your claims.  It does help that you talk about your writing's quality rather than the quality of yourself as a writer, but you need ample proof of your claims to be taken as legitimate.  Naturally, some people are just contrarian assholes and like to tear down those who are confident in their own works, but if the quality is solid then you'll find more people praising it than tearing it down.  If someone talks about why they dislike what you've written beyond dumb, simple or vague statements like "the characters suck" - if they tell you specific things like "Claude's conversation with Reigan is way too sappy" - then that's constructive criticism.  Otherwise, their input is about as worthwhile as a small rock being chucked at your head.

I linked the comment chain. I had shared it, it wasn't Claude and Reigan, but three others, and the first guy was civil, the next guy just came in and said it sucked and I downvoted him.

Your point about EA reminds me of my point about fankids. Sailor Moon, from what I heard, handles a second gen in the absolute worst possible way. Maybe I should actually watch it before saying I do it better but that's what I feel.

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I must say that personally I put more stock in others saying a work of fan work is good, not the creator. Not because I don't trust that it's good but because creators tend to have bias towards their own work, which is fine and completely understandable. However, that person was just being rude and that was completely unnecessary on their part.

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I'm not gonna say you couldn't use more practice in writing, Dcat, but your stuff is HARDLY cringeworthy. Seriously, I've seen WAY worse. Hell, I'd say my earliest stuff was much worse too. You're a pretty decent writer, and can once in awhile pump out something really good too. You're selling yourself short here.

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33 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not gonna say you couldn't use more practice in writing, Dcat, but your stuff is HARDLY cringeworthy. Seriously, I've seen WAY worse. Hell, I'd say my earliest stuff was much worse too. You're a pretty decent writer, and can once in awhile pump out something really good too. You're selling yourself short here.

Like I said on Discord but putting it here publicly. My worry is that I brag about it being "gold" and annoy people.

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12 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Like I said on Discord but putting it here publicly. My worry is that I brag about it being "gold" and annoy people.

I see. Well, it doesn't annoy me, but I can see how it could be that way to others. I would just be careful/cautious.

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Put yourself and your work out there. Even if your stuff sucks, getting feedback is good. I'd probably stay the heck outta reddit unless it's for short bursts. Don't stew on that kinda crock for too long.

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Saying that stuff you wrote is good is utterly empty. Of curse i like what i am writing, i write thing i like in a way i like! Does not mean that it is good for a general reader. 

Feeling pride is a thing, but to brag about it is annoying even when you have some objectively measurable success to back it up, let alone when you just begun. It's much more meaningfull when the compliments comes from someone else.

I know by experience that excessive pride may lead to a fall. I wasted an year working on a story just to suddenly have a realizzation on how the whole premise was so idiotic that it make Fates looks good by comparisson  and cannot be salvaged. Your first few hundreds of pages being shit is a normal thing for most writers, and with a circle of writer friends we make a point of laughing at our earliest creations. But for this very reason is important to understand where you stand and how much you have to learn. Often thinking that what you write is great is Denning-Kruger effect, and for the past me it 100% was.

I am sorry if i sound too negative and if i am projecting, i have been criticized before for being too rough in this situations, but i want to help.

 

Edited by Flere210

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Being vocally arrogant is a bad thing. Being vocally too self-deprecating is bad a thing too- see myself I think sometimes. Confidence and humility are fine moderations though.

Furthermore, context and tone matters, the latter being difficult to determine in typed words on the Internet. Saying you're "great" at writing in a casual tone and context is fine, fanfiction should largely be a casual affair. Saying you're "great" and could write a better story than Pride and Prejudice (to pick a random book in the English canon), should not be done so freely.

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