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Etrurian emperor

How canonically strong are these Three Houses characters? - Day 6 (Petra, Felix, Marianne, Thales)

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If this is canon strength as in who'd win in an anime style one-on-one battle, I'm not sure why Edelgard is being ranked so low considering she has the same Crest as Byleth in addition to her Seiros one; that's like Lysithea but with the Crest of Flames which is kind of a big deal. Wouldn't that mean she's in another ballpark than most?

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36 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Sure, I'm not saying that it isn't an advantage, I agree that any wyvern rider should be relatively high ranked, as something as simple as diving would be enough to deal with most opponents, but when we begin talk about characters at Edelgard and Dimitri's level, I feel like they have the actual power, skill and experience to deal with that gap, kind of like Ryoma does in the FEW cutscene. Of course, Seteth and Claude are much better than random wyvern riders, but I don't think the lords would have much of a problem dealing with the physical side of the dragons, unlike say, today's characters.

Claude attacking from affar is something I see as a stalemate, Edelgard and Dimitri would have a hard time reaching him for sure, but I can't see Claude hitting them easily. That's just my opinion though.

 

Seteth I could give you because he actually has to put himself at some rish to attack, but I think Claude would win that stalemate by virtue of the fact that he can attack but his enemies can't. Like, sure, they Edelgard and Dimitri could probably dodge or smack arrows out of the air. But Claude is no ordinary archer. He has Failnaught and is using techniques like Wind God and Fallen Star from a massive distance away with great accuracy. Simply put, he can damage and eventually kill them, but they can't do anything in return (unless we accept Distant Counter/Counter Attack as canon).

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1 hour ago, Sbuscoz said:

Hmm, so you think Edelgard would be able of going through the same trials as say, Anri ,for example, and do better? She needed Byleth to win against Rhea's dragon form after all.

Keep in mind that they were going through an entire burning city, fighting the rest of the Knights of Seiros and those golems. The thing is that the only reason that Rhea even had the burning city to provide her with a tactical advantage is strictly because Edelgard chose to enter the city, despite how tactically, it would be smarter to let the city burn itself to the ground. Only reason they went in is cause there were civilians inside that were being burned to death.

Keeping in mind with all that, Edelgard and Byleth were weakened the entire way through. And still they had managed to win after all that.

9 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

Dimitri lives long past what he should be able to after suffering numerous fatal wounds, all his deaths involve being overwhelmed by numbers such as ambushed by cavalry and impaled numerous times before going down, in CF when he should be long past dead he is able to have words with Edelgard and only dies when decapitated. Powerscaling is a shitty way to properly measure power especially when any feats by Edelgard is hampered by the fact that she has a literal god backing her in those scenes. Dimitri is absolutely a more dangerous fighter. That said if I were to use Total War Three Kingdoms as a way to describe them, Dimitri is a Champion/vanguard, Edelgard is more of a Sentinel/vanguard, and Claude is a clear Commander/strategist. One is a pure meat blender, the other just outlasts everyone, and Claude is better for how he tricks and uses others than as a pure combatant.

Except Edelgard is someone that doesn't like or is one to show off her power, compared to Dimitri. Keep in mind that on Silver Snow, Gronder Field happens with neither Dimitri nor Claude having Byleth, and results in Dimitri getting killed, and Edelgard at best suffers an injury, with Claude running off. Keep in mind that the Crest of Blaiddyd, even with its raw strength boost, is not something that the slithers really care for. The only thing they did care for is the Crest of Flames, hence why the war was only able to happen is cause Edelgard was able to bear it.

15 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Ferdinand von Aegir: 7,5/10

Ferdinand seems like a very solid all rounder. Being skilled in all three main physical weapons and having no real weakness suggest Ferdinand is a very versatile and skilled fighter. Aside from being skilled all around Ferdinand also possesses a crest of Cichol. Ferdinand might be the noblest of nobles but he has also shown the skill to rise up in a meritocracy. Edelgard doesn't like Ferdinand and detests his family for very good reasons. Even after having his title revoked Ferdinand still managed to rise to the position as general. Given their relation its doubtful Edelgard did him any special favors so he likely reached this position by pure skill. 

The main thing holding Ferdinand back is that he lacks a bit of ''oomph''. He's likely a good margin above average but not the strongest person on the field. Still Ferdinand comes off as a very skilled fighter with no real weakness. He is Ferdinand von Aegir. 

Keep in mind that Edelgard also admitted that if Ferdinand took it more seriously and made a strike first, he would have been able to best her in a duel.

Quote

Ferdinand: Argh... It only took you one blow... How?!
Edelgard: I can't afford to hold back against an opponent like you. I led with my fastest, strongest strike.
Ferdinand: Fastest and strongest? You're just flattering me. I have been defeated. Utterly. I cannot believe I was foolish enough to challenge such a plainly superior opponent.
Edelgard: The difference in our skill level is not so great as all that. If you had taken the first strike, you might have won. That's why I didn't give you the chance. I do not think talent is what separates us so much as readiness.
Ferdinand: I had not the faintest idea of what to expect from a real duel. I was playing, but you were not. That such an ill-prepared student would think to challenge you... It is laughable.

 

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Ferdinand:

Spoiler

6

I like him, he has a ton of options as a unit, and his crest of Cichol synergizes with both a Spear and a Shield. Yet he keeps losing to Edelgard (who, admittedly, is quite strong in her own right). He's not really revered for his fighting abilities, and seems more at home managing property or drinking tea. But he can fight when he needs to.

Ashe:

Spoiler

4

What do we know about Ashe? Well, he was a thief, orphaned by restaurateurs and adopted by Lonato. He chased down a thief in one of his supports, which is... something. No crests helping him out, and no real experience fighting before the Academy. He's below average, despite all the potential he has as a unit (easy paths to Wyvern Lord, Bow Knight).

HILDA! HILDA!

Spoiler

8

We know that Hilda is lazy, and that she hates being judged against her formidable brother, Holst. Nonetheless, it's clear that when she takes the field of battle, she's a force to reckon with, aided by her Crest of Goneril and the powerful Freikugel axe. Notably, she's Claude's closest and best defender in CF and (conditionally) AM.

Hanneman:

Spoiler

4

The mustachioed man is a scholar, not a fighter. He's a decent threat in the Mock battle, and he can be in Dimitri's paralogue, but that's about it. He has the Crest of Indech, and his scholarship gives him powerful magic techniques, but he's the first to profess his ignorance of warfare.

 

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5 hours ago, Thane said:

If this is canon strength as in who'd win in an anime style one-on-one battle, I'm not sure why Edelgard is being ranked so low considering she has the same Crest as Byleth in addition to her Seiros one; that's like Lysithea but with the Crest of Flames which is kind of a big deal. Wouldn't that mean she's in another ballpark than most?

I guess that mostly depends on how much of a boon a crest is supposed to be. If it just a handy power boost or does having one(or two) turn you into a god among men?

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It's hard to gauge what a crest does since we've never seen an activation in a cutscene. You can create a little hologram of your crest symbol from your hands, and obviously it lights up your relic like a glow stick, activating its hidden powers. In my head I rate it is as a superhuman burst of adrenaline/energy, but not one that creates a physical crash afterward from exertion. The only remaining question being is it randomly activated like in gameplay, always at the crest user's disposal, or something that activates on instinct like real life adrenaline?

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Might as well cover this first when we compare capability:

Ernest:

Spoiler
crests_01.png Ernest A Crest long lost to history. Occasionally stops enemy counterattacks when using a weapon. Anna  

Given its effect is identical to Windsweep's effect (and Anna's higher avg spd growth) we can see that those bearing this crest tend towards having higher/super speed. 

Cichol

Spoiler
crests_12.png Cichol Legend has it that Saint Cichol bore this Crest. A symbol of strength and the land. Sometimes lets combat arts prevent enemy counterattacks. Seteth Ferdinand

Bearers of this crest tend to be quite talented in various weapons as both Seteth and Ferdinand are shown to master the weapon triangle. Bearers tend to be very physically capable, having good strength speed and dex in both growth and caps. They tend to favor offensive stats compared to defensive and lack in defensive qualities. Altogether showing themselves able to avoid damage and dish it out but less capable in tanking it. This fits in with their crest power, enabling them to use superior technique to avoid counterattacks. In effect, Cichol bearers drill themselves to perfection, making up a lack of direct power for flawless technique.

Seiros:

Spoiler
crests_03.png Seiros Legend has it that Saint Seiros bore this Crest and passed it down through House Hresvelg. Occasionally raises Mt when using combat arts. Rhea, Jeralt Edelgard

We can see that the effect is 5 bonus damage on combat arts, showing an increase in average strength or technique. To find more of what powers this crest, we look to Rhea: She has average growths and final stats, she has abnormally high growths in Charm and an abnormally high cap in charm, much like Byleth and Edelgard who are noted as exceptionally oddly charismatic. So we can see that more of the effect of this crest is in enhancing the leadership and charisma, giving them an aura of power than it is in actually turning them into a physical powerhouse.

Gloucester

Spoiler
crests_10.png Gloucester House Gloucester’s Crest, inherited from Gloucester of the 10 Elites. Occasionally raises Mt during magic attacks. Lysithea Lorenz
crests_07.png Cethleann Legend has it that Saint Cethleann bore this Crest. A symbol of kindness and mastery of light. Sometimes raises Mt when using recovery magic. Flayn Linhardt

In gameplay we can see the effect as a boost of 5 to damage much like the Fraeldarius Crest is for normal attacks. We can also see it as responsible for Lysithea's abnormally strong magic, her speed and dex being due to her charon crest and her weak physical stats due to the experimentation damaging her body. We can also see that despite his over wise physical cavalry focus, Lorenz has the equal capacity to be a mage due to his crest but to a lesser extent being only a minor crest bearer.

By comparison we can see the Cethleann Crest as the faith equivalent, also boosting healing to an exceptional degree, we also see in Flayn powerful magic growth and near immunity to magic, a hidden capacity for offensive reason magic and as an enemy we can see her becoming a powerful combatant using the strongest offensive faith magic in the game. Support conversations between Linhardt add Ferdinand show that the Crests can have a great deal of effect on the personality of the bearer and how they react to other crest bearers.

Riegen

Spoiler
crests_19.png Riegan A Crest inherited from Riegan of the 10 Elites. Sometimes restores HP equal to 30% of damage dealt when using combat arts.   Claude

Mostly here for comparison's sake, we can see that the effect of Claude's crest allows a seeming vampiric effect and correlates to his high dex and speed growth and caps. I'll return to this later when I cover the crest of flames but do recall that Claude is noted for surviving a harsh life in Almyra and taking a forceful backhand from Nemesis who himself is a physical powerhouse.

Crest of Flames

Spoiler
crests_22.png Flames The Crest of the goddess who governs the world. Occasionally restores HP equal to 30% of damage dealt. Rarely raises Mt and stops counterattacks. Protagonist, Edelgard, Nemesis, Sothis  

The effect of this crest is essentially the combination of Gloucester, Fraeldarius, Seiros, Riegen, Cichol, and Ernest. It can emulate the effect of any of those previous crests except in any situation, usually it just allows the user to heal vampirically. Regarding the last effect, it is noted that Nemesis survived most likely due to his Crest of Flames and Edelgard doesn't show the physical degeneration to the same degree as Lysithea due to the experimentation. Thus the nosferatu effect of the crest (and thus Riegen) is likely more representative of the endurance boosting effects of the crest, what allows them to shrug off wounds. Of the 4 known bearers, 2 are strong hybrid fighters, having high capacity in magic and strength. Nemesis notably favors physical strength and Sothis her magical capability. Of the human bearers they are all shown to have very balanced stats though notably Edelgard has an overall edge on her teacher, likely due to her dual crest nature. Notably both Sothis and Byleth are the only ones with 99 max charm, Seiros comes close with 97 and Edelgard trails behind with 85. As far as growths go, Seiros and Sothis lead, followed by Edelgard with Byleth far behind them. Again this suggests Edelgard's charisma comes primarily from her Seiros crest while Byleth's comes from being the progenitor god. The crest of flames likely enhances one's charisma as all bearers are noted as highly charismatic, even Byleth whose otherwise emotionless exterior was found disturbing. However despite bearing a major crest in flames and minor in Seiros, Edelgard still can't compare to the Charisma of Seiros or Sothis, and cannot match the potential of Byleth.

Blaiddyd

Spoiler
crests_09.png Blaiddyd The Faerghus royal family’s Crest, inherited from Blaiddyd of the 10 Elites. Occasionally doubles Atk and weapon uses for combat arts.   Dimitri

Comparatively, despite bearing only the minor Crest, we can see that Dimitri has an abnormal strength. The effect of this crest is doubling the total dmg and uses for combat arts, allowing Dimitri his famous 999 damage crits thanks to x6 damage. This effect is shown to be more than gameplay because Dimitri is completely incapable of actually controlling his strength and easily breaks even the best forged equipment when training.

Blaiddyd stands as one of the few crest abilities not mimicked by the Crest of Flames, the other being Indech and Lamine/Dominic. The crest of Flames certainly stands above the rest, showing strong average tier growths in all stats, having no weaknesses (Byleth specifically noted to have no weaknesses) unlike other Crests. So that is why Blaiddyd stands as such a fascinating crest: it not only stands as unique compared to the Crest of Flames, its effect arguably outshines many of the others in what it intends to do. Since it doubles the total damage of the attack, no one can compare to the damage output of this crest. Despite being only a bearer of a minor crest, Dimitri dwarfs all others in physical strength and yet he is also one of the fastest characters (growth + cap) and yet he also has some of the highest HP (growth and Cap) and yet he also has extremely strong defenses.  Alongside his personal, he is nearly untouchable and even then was noted for shrugging off mortal wounds and slaughtering elite troops with his bare hands as a teenager.

His only weakness is his terrible resistance and nonexistent magic, another interesting thing to note...

On using gameplay/stats as justification:

The game notably shows that it prefers to set stats and growth to actually represent the character rather than be purely balanced. Non crest Bearers Raphael and Dedue have the highest HP caps in the game and are notably the tallest and bulkiest characters. Petra is the fastest and has a wirey muscle build, Ignatz is physically weak and has a very slight frame and small body. All non crest bearers has their stats, growths, and caps reflected in their physique. Crest bearers like Felix and Hilda do not, instead the crest bearers stats are reflected in the Crest they bear and whether that crest is minor or major.

Edelgard has two crests, in having her power fully unlocked she gains the "dual crest" power, enabling her to take two actions a phase. Her relic enables her to have a galeforce like effect that is very similar to her dual crest power despite lacking the crest her weapon is actually geared for, Marriane despite having this crest cannot use this relic power. Thus storywise it is likely that the effect is more representative of her dual crest power than the relic itself.

To add to this, Claude's relic effect essentially allows him the feat he pulls in the cutscene where he fights Nemesis, and Dimitri's is simply a reflection of raw physical might: gaining effectiveness against everything just like the "war masters strike."

 

So, in conclusion: in a one-on-one duel, Dimitri is far FAR stronger than Edelgard and indeed this does transfer favorably to slaughtering hordes of enemies in the wave assaults that insane Dimitri favors (again reflected in his Battalion Wrath, Battalion Vantage unique set up). Edelgard, however is able to simply grind down her enemies (shown by Battalion vantage and renewal) and how her set up allows her to ignore lesser magic and physical attacks (her unique class being a fortress knight without a magic weakness) and ruthlessly brutalize these enemies in turn.

@omegaxis1 I am by no means undermining her capabilities, she absolutely would have a greater effect in mass battles than Dimitri, simply because her overwhelming power is more suited to slaughtering many weaker enemies kind of like a saturation bombing. Dimitri is comparatively far stronger in one-on-one duels and is -yes- far physically stronger than even Edelgard but that is all he is, a physical powerhouse with no magical ability and no real way to fight multiple enemies except personally murdering each one, allowing him to be overwhelmed by sufficient numbers.

 

So again, Edelgard is a conventional explosive, Dimitri is a shaped charge.

 

Anyway I should probably drop this since we are past discussing the lords.

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A new batch of characters. We got Caspar, Sylvain, Ignatz and Rhea. 

Caspar: 8,2/10

I think that when its just about fighting we should probably give Caspar a relatively high score. It would be a bit sad if it wasn't a high score. Fighting is about the only thing Caspar is good at and if he's adequate at best then he's kind of a useless figure in whatever faction he ends up joining. There are some additional points in his favor. Caspar might not have a crest but he's from a family that dominates the military despite not having crests. He's certainly not lacking in the muscle department.  If we assume that doing the paralogues perfect is the canonical route then Caspar is also strong enough to impress the Death Knight which in turn makes him one of the few to impress the Death Knight. Caspar might not be anything special but sometimes punching things really hard can be just as effective as being special. 

So I think our punching boy should get a score a little above an 8. Definitely below a 8,5 though. Whatever virtues Caspar has he's also kinda dumb which is a handicap when fighting clever or skilled enemies. 

Sylvain: 8/10

Sylvain is a pretty multifaceted guy. He's a cavalier who is skilled in both axes and lances, and as both a noble in a troublesome border region and the heir we can assume Sylvain got a pretty decent training. Thanks to his status Sylvain has both a crest and a relic to go with it. To everyone's surprise Sylvain is also very clever and his magic list suggest he's actually really good at casting spells. 

In raw talent Sylvain is likely among the top of the Blions. He kinda lacks a reliable drive though and probably isn't nearly as effective as he should be thanks to his casual attitude. In fact he's probably the opposite of Caspar who does have that drive despite being unremarkable. 

Ignatz: 4/10

Poor Ignatz is probably one of the weakest students. During some conversations Ignatz claims to be a poor fighter and that's probably true. He certainly looks like a complete wimp. Given his backstory and physique Ignatz isn't a natural fighter and he doesn't even want to be a fighter. Rather than a noble with lots of training or a commoner having to fight to survive Ignatz is just a rich kid who unwillingly went to the monastery because his father forced him to. Maybe Ignatz would make a decent mage but his father stressing that he wants Ignatz to be a knight probably means he'd be most likely to be a physical class. 

Rhea: 9,5/10

Rhea is one of the strongest figures on Fodlan. She's the one who defeated Nemesis and that was just her human form. Rhea might have weakened with age considering her human form can be beaten by the Death knights, the pre timeskip Eagles and theoretically even some Western Church bishops. But if her human form fails she can turn into a dragon to wreak some havoc. As a dragon she's huge, mobile and can fly. And if clawing enemies to death or burning them isn't enough then merely sitting on them should get the job done. Individually only Nemesis can compare to Rhea. Even at the end it takes both Edelgard and Byleth to bring her down and she presumably had been fighting lots of others at that point. 

I wouldn't give Rhea a 10 though because she's not unstoppable. Her human form is powerful but essentially just a mortal one and as I said a wide group ranging from the Death Knight to failed Bishops can hurt or kill her mortal form. Her dragon form seems to come with some severe  limitations and as dragon Rhea is defeated and captured during most routes it can be defeated by conventional means. 

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5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Rhea: 9,5/10

Rhea is one of the strongest figures on Fodlan. She's the one who defeated Nemesis and that was just her human form. Rhea might have weakened with age considering her human form can be beaten by the Death knights, the pre timeskip Eagles and theoretically even some Western Church bishops. But if her human form fails she can turn into a dragon to wreak some havoc. As a dragon she's huge, mobile and can fly. And if clawing enemies to death or burning them isn't enough then merely sitting on them should get the job done. Individually only Nemesis can compare to Rhea. Even at the end it takes both Edelgard and Byleth to bring her down and she presumably had been fighting lots of others at that point. 

I wouldn't give Rhea a 10 though because she's not unstoppable. Her human form is powerful but essentially just a mortal one and as I said a wide group ranging from the Death Knight to failed Bishops can hurt or kill her mortal form. Her dragon form seems to come with some severe  limitations and as dragon Rhea is defeated and captured during most routes it can be defeated by conventional means. 

Keep in mind that Rhea actually was able to best Nemesis, who had the Crest of Flames from Sothis AND the Sword of the Creator, and was able to best him in single combat. Also, she was able to "kill" Byleth in the end of Crimson Flower's Part 1 that resulted in him needing to sleep for five years, and this is despite Byleth having merged with Sothis and had the power of the progenitor god. 

Rhea states that she was also bestowed a blessing from Sothis, hence why she has the "Sacred Power" skill, which Byleth can learn from mastering his Enlightened One class, which indicates that she did get Sothis's blessing, which might very well be why she could best Nemesis and battle Byleth. And let's not ignore the fact that Rhea actually tanked several nukes to the face in two routes. She was hurt, sure, but she didn't outright die. 

Also, those who slither in the dark absolutely needed Edelgard to bear the Crest of Flames before they would put any effort into challenging Rhea in a war. If you need the Crest of the progenitor god herself to fight Rhea, that says a LOT about Rhea's power. 

So I would actually put Rhea at a 10 or even at an 11. 

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As far as Three Houses goes, out of characters who appear properly in the story (i.e. excluding Sothis), Rhea is #1. Ancient dragon, takes on multiple demonic beasts at once, facetanks the javelins of light, etc., etc.

You could make a case that Nemesis, Edelgard, and Byleth are the next three in some order. Rhea defeats one of them 1v1 and it very clearly takes the power of the other two combined to defeat her. In general she only loses when clearly outnumbered AND facing at least one high-end opponent.

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10 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I wouldn't give Rhea a 10 though because she's not unstoppable. Her human form is powerful but essentially just a mortal one and as I said a wide group ranging from the Death Knight to failed Bishops can hurt or kill her mortal form. Her dragon form seems to come with some severe  limitations and as dragon Rhea is defeated and captured during most routes it can be defeated by conventional means. 

What do you rate as 10 then? Because for the scale to have meaning, I would assume something needs to be 10, and something needs to be 1 or 0, with every other character being a grade between how close they are to absolute best or worst.

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Have to agree on Rhea being the most worthy of a 10. But I have to admit it's hard to rate any of the playable characters a 1. Even for the weakest theoretical combatant (hint: it's Manuela).

I guess I'd go with a 6 for Sylvain, 3 for Ignatz, and 4 for Caspar. Ignatz is probably the best shot of anybody in the game but one of the most physically frail units in terms of stats. Sylvain gets big points for having exclusive access to a fabulous relic. Caspar loves fighting, but he also loses the majority of his fist fights in those supports so he's either not that great of a fighter or is woeful at judging which opponents he can safely take on. Even Linhardt points out to him he has too little reach due to his short stature.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

What do you rate as 10 then? Because for the scale to have meaning, I would assume something needs to be 10, and something needs to be 1 or 0, with every other character being a grade between how close they are to absolute best or worst.

I always considered a 10 to be there for the really godlike beings. Naga, Grima and maybe full powered Sothis. One could argue the likes of Dheginea or Nergal could be there as well. 

Meanwhile the human forms of Nils and Ninian would be somewhere close to the 1 spectrum. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Caspar:

Spoiler

6

He's scrappy, no question about it, and he's definitely dedicated to improving himself. But he has no crest, and his range of combat proficiencies are limited. He is able to carry Bernadetta a fair distance, but she's probably among the lightest students. Would say he gets the biggest boost after the timeskip, probably going from like 5ish to 7.

Sylvain:

Spoiler

7

He may be a lady's man, but he has no intent to just stand there and look pretty. He has the (minor) Crest of Gautier, allowing him to wield the Lance of Ruin, a very powerful relic. He may or may not take part in bringing down his brother, Miklan. Either way, his father asks that he go to take down Miklan's remaining allies, allowing, suggesting he sees his son as independently strong and capable.

Ignatz:

Spoiler

3

Oh, Iggy, what are we gonna do with you? You've got a great heart, and a passion for art, but you never really demonstrate your combat prowess, belying your disinterest in becoming a knight. You can do rallying well, but that helps out your friends moreso than yourself. No crest seals it, making you one of the weakest characters, canonically.

Rhea:

Spoiler

10

She's not a goddess, but she was one of (the first among?) the Children of the Goddess. Not only is she incredibly long-lived, but she managed to best Nemesis, a man of similarly great prowess, in single combat. She functions as a challenging final boss on two of the routes, and manages to hold her own in her paralogue as well. Not to mention the whole "starting a religion" and "reviving her dead mom" power plays.

 

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Caspar: 7/10

His whole focus is fighting, so he is probably, to an extent, skilled, and we see him winning against someone who seems to have an advantge against him in his support with Lindhart, but the lack of feats or anything that points towards him affecting the outcome of the battles makes it hard for me to give him more than a 7.

Sylvain: 7'75/10?

As I said, I haven't played Azure Moon yet, so this is more based on my impresion of him with little to support it, but as far as I'm aware he is fairly talented, and on top of it has a crest, a relic, and while not that important, a horse. 

Ignatz: 4/10

Being trained in the academy probably means that he is at least stronger than a mook, but he is more than likely a liability.

Rhea 10/10

She bested Nemesis, who is probably a 9'5 or a 10 himself, while in human form. If we add to that her dragon form it's rather easy to give her this score.

 

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I always considered a 9 to be there for the really godlike beings. Naga, Grima and maybe full powered Sothis. One could argue the likes of Dheginea or Nergal could be there as well. 

Meanwhile the human forms of Nils and Ninian would be somewhere close to the 1 spectrum. 

But your own ranking descrives a 10 as:

"These guys are the strongest people in their respective continents with almost godlike powers. Think final bosses, the previous legendary warriors or those playable characters the lore deems to be far above everyone else." 

How does Rhea not fit that description? I assumed that those between 9 and 10 were people like Camus, Michalis, Greil....

 

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

What do you rate as 10 then? Because for the scale to have meaning, I would assume something needs to be 10, and something needs to be 1 or 0, with every other character being a grade between how close they are to absolute best or worst.

There has to be a 1 and a 10, but those "something" don't have to necessarily be part of the cast, in this case 1 is a civilian and 10 a divinity. I'm assuming that he doesn't feel that Rhea is at the same level as some of the other final bosses or "gods" in the series. I personally would give a 10 to most of them and call it a day, even if some are clearly more powerful than others, because it messes what is a mostly human scale, but to each their own.

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53 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

But your own ranking descrives a 10 as:

"These guys are the strongest people in their respective continents with almost godlike powers. Think final bosses, the previous legendary warriors or those playable characters the lore deems to be far above everyone else." 

How does Rhea not fit that description? I assumed that those between 9 and 10 were people like Camus, Michalis, Greil....

True! What you just saw was a typo 😄 I Meant to say a 10 was what I reserved for people like Naga. Thanks for pointing that out. 

But I don't think Rhea fits into that description because she's not quite god like. Definitely a demigod but not quite the full thing. Her dragon form has limits and her human form is strong but not invincible. Rhea's human form was definitely a 10 in the past due to her defeating Nemisis, but in the present day it seems to have weakened somewhat. Meanwhile Naga or Grima's dragon forms know no limits. I don't think Rhea is ''far above everyone else'' because the Death Knight and some others are on a similar level as her human form while her dragon form has been defeated by Edelgard, Byleth and Thales. 

Rhea is very powerful but seems somewhat below the whole godlike level that Naga is on. Thus I'd say a 9,5 is fair 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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13 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

True! What you just saw was a typo 😄 I Meant to say a 10 was what I reserved for people like Naga. Thanks for pointing that out. 

But I don't think Rhea fits into that description because she's not quite god like. Definitely a demigod but not quite the full thing. Her dragon form has limits and her human form is strong but not invincible. Rhea's human form was definitely a 10 in the past due to her defeating Nemisis, but in the present day it seems to have weakened somewhat. Meanwhile Naga or Grima's dragon forms know no limits. I don't think Rhea is ''far above everyone else'' because the Death Knight and some others are on a similar level as her human form while her dragon form has been defeated by Edelgard, Byleth and Thales. 

Rhea is very powerful but seems somewhat below the whole godlike level that Naga is on. Thus I'd say a 9,5 is fair 

That turns it into something of a rictor scale. Where the difference between 9 and 10 is far bigger than the difference between 8 and 9. Reasons like these I don't like 10 point rating systems. They useually devolve into four point rating systems in disguise.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

That turns it into something of a rictor scale. Where the difference between 9 and 10 is far bigger than the difference between 8 and 9. Reasons like these I don't like 10 point rating systems. They useually devolve into four point rating systems in disguise.

I think that's something that happens irl too though, like with grades for example, the effort needed to go from a 9 to a 10 is bigger than the one to reach a 9 from an 8. But I think that's fine, in a fantasy setting like this, if instead of using the ranking in the firts post we took Rhea as a 10 and a civilian as a 0 and divided the rating mathematically, most of the cast wouldn't even be  above 4, and that wouldn't be... interesting, because we wouldn't be thinking/seeing their differences in a significant way.

 

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Caspar 6: Guy has moxie but his denseness sells him short when against more cunning opponents

Sylvain 7: Despite his antics he is a capable guy. Able to use the lance of Ruin give him more of an edge.

Ignatz 4: Ignatz is rather wimpy when it comes to combat, perhaps it's a good idea to become an artist.

 Rhea 10: Bested Nemesis at her prime, took several city destroying weapons point blank and lived, and took the combined efforts of Fodlan to take her down. Truly a powerhouse.  

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On 11/27/2019 at 7:09 PM, omegaxis1 said:

Your underselling Edelgard here. The Crest of Flames, on its own, is the MOST powerful Crest. So by that alone, Edelgard is superior to Dimitri and Claude by default. The Crest of Flames is the Crest of the Goddess Sothis herself. The Crest of Blaiddyd might have given Dimitri super strength, but that doesn't matter in the long run.

I have some problem with it actually.

The Crest of Flames/Fire Emblem is the most powerful crest indeed in theory,  but does Edelgard even know how to use it's power, or that does she even able to?

The game rarely shown her using any particular power with the Crest of Flame, and she can't even use Sword of the Creator like Byleth or Nemesis.

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Caspar: 7.5/10 (with potential to be an 8 )

Edelgard specifically notes that Caspar is stronger than his brother(father?), who is known to be a powerhouse, but is overlooked. I think he has both natural strength and the ability to get significantly stronger as evidenced by the hard work he puts in. Which is why I place him high canonically because he's supposed to be incredibly strong PLUS with good potential. Also Edelgard always seems impressed by his strength, which I think says a lot.

Sylvain: 6.5/10

As much as I love him, his battle strengths aren't very noted. It's shown he has a natural aptitude to Reason, and he's quicker/smarter than most people give him credit for due to his womanizer attitude. But in terms of sheer canon strength, all we know is that he has a crest, which at least puts him above average. I don't think someone's weapon really counts in terms of canon strength. He can wield the Lance, sure, but that doesn't necessarily make HIM strong.

Ignatz: 2.5/10

No note of battle talent. His entire arc is focused on wanting to be a painter, and I think a few supports focus on him being weak. I have a feeling he's the same strength as an enemy soldier if even that. 

Rhea: 10/10

I mean she's literally the child of a Goddess, so definitely 10/10. It took Edelgard and Byleth to bring her down, sooo she's strong. 

Edited by Kiran_

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2 hours ago, Timlugia said:

I have some problem with it actually.

The Crest of Flames/Fire Emblem is the most powerful crest indeed in theory,  but does Edelgard even know how to use it's power, or that does she even able to?

The game rarely shown her using any particular power with the Crest of Flame, and she can't even use Sword of the Creator like Byleth or Nemesis.

Of course she does. Crests are part of a person's power. It's a power they have automatically. 

Your argument about how she cannot wield the Sword of the Creator is kind of missing an important detail. The reason she's not able to is because the Sword of the Creator itself cannot be used by anyone by Byleth, cause Byleth has the Crest Stone inside his body. Keep in mind that Arundel stated that a Relic cannot function without the Crest Stone. So if Byleth gave Edelgard the Sword of the Creator, she would just have a weapon that lacks a Crest Stone.

It's rather obvious that Arundel wanted Edelgard to have the Sword of the Creator so that Edelgard would be Nemesis 2.0. 

The main reason people tend to undersell Edelgard is that Edelgard doesn't like to show off. She doesn't show off her power, which is something that Dimitri doesn't do so much, since he is raised to fight often. 

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1 hour ago, Kiran_ said:

Edelgard specifically notes that Caspar is stronger than his brother(father?), who is known to be a powerhouse, but is overlooked.

Those are two different people. I suppose its easy to mix them up since they both never appear and Caspar's brother is only very, very rarely mentioned. 

Caspar's father probably remains a whole lot stronger than him. So far its the only opponent Caspar seems to fear. Edelgard notes Caspar is stronger than his older brother who she says is kinda worthless. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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36 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Those are two different people. I suppose its easy to mix them up since they both never appear and Caspar's brother is only very, very rarely mentioned. 

Caspar's father probably remains a whole lot stronger than him. So far its the only opponent Caspar seems to fear. Edelgard notes Caspar is stronger than his older brother who she says is kinda worthless. 

Ah yes, you are correct it's the father who's the noted powerhouse. Though rereading Edeldgard/Caspar's support, I took their conversation more to mean that his brother fights to hold onto his inheritance (as evidenced by Caspar, since the inheritance isn't certain), but that Edelgard still views him as greedy and worthless more in character than strength.

So I guess I sorta assumed that meant Caspar's brother to be strong (but lacking in character) and Edelgard viewing Caspar as both stronger and better in character, and therefore should have the inheritance based on those factors, but you're right it's not stated really how strong his brother is.

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17 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

Ah yes, you are correct it's the father who's the noted powerhouse. Though rereading Edeldgard/Caspar's support, I took their conversation more to mean that his brother fights to hold onto his inheritance (as evidenced by Caspar, since the inheritance isn't certain), but that Edelgard still views him as greedy and worthless more in character than strength.

So I guess I sorta assumed that meant Caspar's brother to be strong (but lacking in character) and Edelgard viewing Caspar as both stronger and better in character, and therefore should have the inheritance based on those factors, but you're right it's not stated really how strong his brother is.

Personally I like to imagine Caspar's brother is Fodlan's version of Narcian. It would make for an amusing side villain. 

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