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Etrurian emperor

How canonically strong are these Three Houses characters? - Day 6 (Petra, Felix, Marianne, Thales)

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1 hour ago, Deathcon said:

If we are taking skills in to consideration, Jeralt's Blade Breaker skill is the best offense skill in the game.

I was talking more about the lore side of the skills rather than it's gameplay aplications, like, Leonie's rivalry tells us  that her performance increases, strenght wise in particular, arround males because of her competitivity, Ferdinand's confidence shows us that he is more "skilled" when he hasn't received damage, likely because being hurt isn't proper of a noble, or Gilbert's veteran knight, showing that his experience allows him to minimize damage by organizing his troop. Some tell about behavior on the battlefield, others about personality or their effects on other people. A few of them can be important to determine a characters "power level"

In Jeralt's case, I suppose his fighting style breaks the enemies stances, which makes it much more difficult for them to attack or defend effectively. But that's simply how I see it, if someone thinks that's a stretch, that it's not significant enough to be a reason for ranking higher or lower, or wants to follow more or less strictly the gameplay, that's fine.

4 minutes ago, msterforks said:

Again, the game is balanced around gameplay and not around lore. If we take strength and might into consideration, the mighty protagonist with the power of a goddess and the SotC is weaker than Hilda with a Silver Axe+.

Yes, and I agree with you in that, I'm not talking about comparing Edelgard and Hilda, I'm talking about comparing Hilda's strenght and skill. Using Hilda as an example, her stats/growths show us what kind of warrior she is, fighting using strenght instead of dexterity. Her speed stat though, shows us that her speed is bigger than her strenght.

This might seem like something that you'd end up knowing naturally as you play, but since the level ups have a rng factor...

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3 hours ago, Deathcon said:

If we are taking skills in to consideration, Jeralt's Blade Breaker skill is the best offense skill in the game.

Keen Intuition is pretty great too. I'm actually pretty disappointed they didn't give us any indication of what a fully realized Jeralt would be like. Maybe he exists in the code, we only see training Greil in gameplay in Path of Radiance, but his suped up form is presen tin the game's code. Though at least with Greil even if you didn't have that, you could still imagine him using that cool axe and Ike's aether. No such luck for Jearlt as all he gets is a measly iron lance and Byleth's enlightened one class is completely different to Jeralt's paladin. If they at least made him sword focused instead of lance focused I could imagine him using the Sword of Seiros (which would be beastly).

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1 hour ago, Sbuscoz said:

Yes, and I agree with you in that, I'm not talking about comparing Edelgard and Hilda, I'm talking about comparing Hilda's strenght and skill. Using Hilda as an example, her stats/growths show us what kind of warrior she is, fighting using strenght instead of dexterity. Her speed stat though, shows us that her speed is bigger than her strenght.

This might seem like something that you'd end up knowing naturally as you play, but since the level ups have a rng factor...

I was comparing Byleth to Hilda.

You undermined yourself when you mentioned stats can't be used to compare different characters. This entire thread is about judging a character's strengths relative to everyone else in the game.

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Linhardt: 3/10

Linhardt is likely one of the weakest students. This isn't necessarily because he doesn't have potential but because he's very stubborn about not honing any potential he would have. Linhardt makes it very clear. He doesn't want to train, he doesn't want to contribute and all he wants to do is sleep. His thin build and fear of blood makes Linhardt incredibly unsuited for any sort of close ranged fight and his spell list isn't overly impressive either.  Linhardt is a lot like Ignatz in that he's not a natural fighter but while Ignatz wants to improve because his father demands it Linhardt doesn't seem to have any real interest in getting stronger. 

Annette: 5/10

She's a lot like Ashe. While Ashe is the least imposing of the Blions boys she's the least imposing of the Blions girls.  Out of the entire bunch Annette is the smallest by a very strong margin. She's even one of the smallest students in general. Throughout her supports Annette is the happy student but she never comes off as a great warrior or a powerful wizard. Given her high scores at the academy she's an expert on magic but her lacking spell list implies she could be an expert in the theoretical aspect rather than the fighting aspect. In Annette's support with Mercedes the two get pretty intimidated by common bandits which isn't a very good sign. 

Annette does have a crest and a relic but she also seems the relic user that's the least equipped to handle her relic. I can't exactly see tiny Annette lifting a huge mop shaped hammer. 

Lysithea: 8/10

When it comes to raw power Lysithea should be among the top students. Her spell list is absurdly long, her magical power praised by many, she has two crest and Claude says she's got a good mindset for hectic combat. Out of the mages we see Lysithea should have the most magical power of them all. 

So why isn't she higher? Well Lysithea is kinda frail. She's a very petite girl and sickly to boot. She suffers from the same weakness as other kid mages in that she's toast if anyone comes too close but she also has bad stamina and could collapse from health reasons in the middle of battle. Lysithea is probably a lot stronger than the other mages but her spells are probably a lot more draining for her as well. 

Cyril: 6/10

Cyril is the youngest playable character but I think he might be stronger than some of the student. Cyril doesn't have a monastery education but he did have a very practical education. Shamir trained him with a bow, the monastery duties made him good with horses and axes, and his past in Almyra made him familiar with wyvren which he rides canonically in Crimson Rose.  This all makes Cyril a pretty versatile fighter. 

Cyril doesn't have a crest but he does have drive. He's practically a Rhea zealot so if she tells him to slit throats he should stay motivated the entire time to please his lady. Especially in Crimson Rose he should be pretty fanatical. 

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Linhardt is a 3. His excellent faith magic is of no use in a 1v1 setting, and neither is his crest. His reason magic favors accuracy, low weight, and crits, but it's all two range options unless he gets his hands on the Caduces Staff which lore wise would be the property of Flayn. His narcoleptic behavior is probably to blame for his lacking physical training, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim he's in danger of falling asleep during a serious fight. According to him, he only falls asleep when he's losing interest. Though as a dedicated scholar, he naturally has little interest in improving at fights.

Annette is 5.5. Crest and awesome relic for her stat spread. Her suite of rally skills won't help in a 1v1 scenario. She has the most reason magic training of any of the students lore wise (and the highest starting rank among them at D+), with all the most accurate options, and potentially Abraxas from faith magic which is a great nuke spell complement. I don't think there's any narrative reason that implies she's not great at fighting. She's a hard worker with well rounded stats for any scenario.

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Annette does have a crest and a relic but she also seems the relic user that's the least equipped to handle her relic. I can't exactly see tiny Annette lifting a huge mop shaped hammer. 

It weighs less than a steel axe and she has proficiency in axes in general. Including the mighty lightning axe combat art. She won't ever wield Crusher without penalty but it's well suited to her.

Lysithea: Dual crests, but one of them does not realistically apply to her except when she uses soulblade (in fact, she is one of very few characters with no unique combat arts except for her budding talent and Thunderbrand's foudroyant). She can use Thrysius but she needs to pry it from Lorenz's cold, dead hands first so I don't suspect she'd have it based on canon. Same for Catherine's Thunderbrand. Her proficiencies in authority and Faith magic do not apply to a 1v1 scenario besides access to Seraphim and Abraxas. Nuke spells are great, but all her options weigh her down like a plague and dark magic is extremely inaccurate to boot. The other relics she can wield like Thunderbrand and Axe of Ukonvasara don't play to her physical frailty as well as a basic levin sword would. She's a 4.5, or a 6 with thrysius since it addresses her biggest issues as a dedicated mage.

Cyril: Great theoretical potential as evidenced by his personal, with proficiencies implying a wyvern rider or bow knight. He was trained in the bow by Shamir, though if you read their supports, their shooting styles clash and she can't help him reach his potential. According to her, Cyril has issues performing lobbed shots characteristic of snipers and bow knights, preferring to stay at close range where he can aggressively shoot straight at targets. I think I would give the kid a 5 at highest. He would grow into a great soldier with his insane combat arts but lack of crest or relic hurts and the shamir A+ support shows he's not willing to do everything to get stronger.

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Linhardt: 5.25

More of a healer and researcher then a fighter. Able to save both Lysithea at least from her shortened life span in their paired ending. Fought at Fort Merceus.

Annette: 7

Able to handle her own relatively well with the other Blue Lions. Is studious and smart.

Lysithea: 8.25

Has the power of two crests and if Edelgard is any indication those are very strong people. Though her frail body often hampers her. Fought in Blood of the Eagle and Lion.

Cyril: 6.25

Taught by Shamir and loyal to Rhea. Compliemented by Shamir herself. Mini boss in Outset of a Power Struggle.

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Linhardt

Spoiler

4

Has a height advantage (pre-skip) over Caspar, plus a Crest, and he learns some fairly useful spells. But he's much more support-oriented than combative, and he'd rather research or doze off than train. He does help defend Fort Merceus in VW/AM, albeit under the Death Knight's command. He'd likely rather talk his way out of a fight than let it come to fisticuffs.

Annette

Spoiler

5

With a Crest that offers access to a powerful Relic, and a stated talent in magic, Annette seems rather promising. But while our precious pupil has book smarts, she's never noted for her prowess in combat. She can be good, no doubt, and she does keep on serving Dimitri, even appearing in CF's endgame. Still, she seems more at home studying, or supporting allies, than actually fighting.

Lysithea

Spoiler

7

I wavered on where to put her - two crests present a frightening power, and she has one of the best spell lists in the game, on both sides. Still, her physical offense and defense are barely-existent, and her imposed crests creates complications in her health. You can fight her in CF or AM, but she's not especially trusted by Claude.

Cyril

Spoiler

5

Pre-skip, he's one of the weakest ones around, hampered by youth, inexperience, and growing up abused and/or malnourished. Still, he gets instruction from Shamir, works hard, and dedicates himself to Lady Rhea, to the point that he's literally at her right hand in CF endgame. A great rags-to-riches story, albeit one not seen by a Cyril who keeps the bench warm.

 

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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Has a height advantage (pre-skip) over Caspar,

 

Still does after even though he doesn't grow a centimeter.

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Linhardt: 3/10

He's never noted as a fighter. He hates the sight of blood, which means he literally can't be a good fighter if he's squirming every time he's casting harmful magic. I think his magic prowess is noted, but realistically his speciality is research and his laziness probably keeps him from actually developing his combat potential. I only rate him higher than Ignatz because I think he has slightly more natural talent.

Annette: 4/10

I love her, but all discussions of her made her seem good theoretically, but not on the actual field. She's shown to be hesitant and make mistakes with her company, specially in her supports with Caspar. And she's a klutz, so I find it hard to believe she'd be specifically good on the field of battle. She's smart, but never struck me as a fighter. But just on the idea that she can swing an axe at least make me thinks she's stronger than Linhardt.

Lysithea: 7.5/10

I think with the right defending company around her, Lysithea could be an absolute powerhouse. She doesn't need defenses if one spell can absolutely obliterate an opposing company. I mean just canonically, dual crests is shown to be incredible. And just because she's not a physical monster, I think her prodigal magical talents are enough to shoot her up. I think she'll always rely on others to make her truly great (the only reason I wouldn't put her at 8), but I think her actual magic capabilities might be that of 9.

Cyril: 7/10

I think pre-skip Cyril is probably a 5. But post-skip he's supposed to be shown as both skilled and on par with many of the other students. He was trained by Shamir, who doesn't really seem the type to train anyone she didn't consider worthy, so I'm gonna use that in my analysis of him. I also don't think he's prodigal by any means, but I think he just works INCREDIBLY hard, and I think hard work is what makes him skilled, but his lack of a crest is what probably keeps him from being a true powerhouse. 

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Someone below a 5 won't be accepted in the Officer Academy whitout some bribery involved so i don't understand why many students are rated so low. To avert the four point scale we need a different scale where your average mook is way below a 1, because even the worst student is far better than a mook(2 and 3 are explicitly noted to not be better than an average soldier) simply because the OA training as to amount to something.

Edited by Flere210

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57 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Someone below a 5 won't be accepted in the Officer Academy whitout some bribery involved so i don't understand why many students are rated so low. To avert the four point scale we need a different scale where your average mook is way below a 1, because even the worst student is far better than a mook(2 and 3 are explicitly noted to not be better than an average soldier) simply because the OA training as to amount to something.

Students and characters are compared to eachother. Not to the general populace.

 

Ignatz might be a 3 (and frankly, that's generous, because he'd likely be a 1 or 2 relative to the roster as a whole), but he's still substantially better off than villager #52. 

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13 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Students and characters are compared to eachother. Not to the general populace.

 

Ignatz might be a 3 (and frankly, that's generous, because he'd likely be a 1 or 2 relative to the roster as a whole), but he's still substantially better off than villager #52. 

The scale we are using says otherwise. And in other fe there are characters that are indeed on par whit villager #52(shanam comes to mind).

On 12/8/2019 at 4:44 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

3/2 - Mooks: Characters who are unlikely to be much stronger than the basic enemy soldiers

 

Edited by Flere210

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1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

Someone below a 5 won't be accepted in the Officer Academy whitout some bribery involved so i don't understand why many students are rated so low. To avert the four point scale we need a different scale where your average mook is way below a 1, because even the worst student is far better than a mook(2 and 3 are explicitly noted to not be better than an average soldier) simply because the OA training as to amount to something.

That's not true at all. The Officer's Academy is through entrance exams (which we know nothing about-except that there's clearly some theoretical part) and a heavy fee that pretty much only nobles can pay.  

But basic enemy soldiers could have also gone to an academy or even Garreg Mach. We don't know what other things there are throughout the nations. We also don't know the requirements to entrance, except it being incredibly expensive. Clearly nobles get (sorta) a free pass to go. And Annette is implied to get in because of killer scores and having been at the Mage's Academy, whereas Dorothea said she just enrolled and used her money.

We don't know how many academies there are, or even where other enemy soldiers stand. And Garreg Mach also trains 'officers' and strategies or people that might not BE in the front lines, if battalions are anything to go off of.

I'm doing most of my comparing to other students, but it's hard to believe Ignatz (a painter only sent to the officer's academy to become a knight because of family) is really that much better than a villager. It's clear Garreg Mach produces some GREAT warriors, but to suggest everyone who enters is inherently great is a reach. 

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The generic villager most likely had 2 weeks of training that make him understand that maybe stabbing whit the pointy end of a spear is better. Ignatz has been trained by a very accomplished teacher in the art of war for one year. It's at lesst like comparing a conscript whit a navy seal.

Edited by Flere210

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57 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

The generic villager most likely had 2 weeks of training that make him understand that maybe stabbing whit the pointy end of a spear is better. Ignatz has been trained by a very accomplished teacher in the art of war for one year. It's at lesst like comparing a conscript whit a navy seal.

The generic villager might have a physical advantage, whether via genetics, age, or the type of work they do. Maybe the villager has experience fighting off wolves to defend his sheep, IDK. Ignatz has book smarts, and might have more skill with a bow, but that in itself doesn't make him a stronger fighter. Consider his small stature (particularly pre-skip), non-belligerent attitude, and relatively secure upbringing.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The generic villager might have a physical advantage, whether via genetics, age, or the type of work they do. Maybe the villager has experience fighting off wolves to defend his sheep, IDK. Ignatz has book smarts, and might have more skill with a bow, but that in itself doesn't make him a stronger fighter. Consider his small stature (particularly pre-skip), non-belligerent attitude, and relatively secure upbringing.

Ignatz still helps and killing monsters and serve in the Alliance army after time skip, so he is better then your average villager.

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1 hour ago, Deathcon said:

Ignatz still helps and killing monsters and serve in the Alliance army after time skip, so he is better then your average villager.

I can agree that post-skip Ignatz is stronger than an average villager of the same age. Having said that, the rankings aren't specifically fixed to any point in time, so I've been ranking students by average, pre- and post-skip.

5 hours ago, Kiran_ said:

We don't know how many academies there are, or even where other enemy soldiers stand. And Garreg Mach also trains 'officers' and strategies or people that might not BE in the front lines, if battalions are anything to go off of.

This is an important detail to consider. Most soldiers in Fódlan likely did not attend the Officer's Academy. The fact that a high proportion of the students are nobles should raise some flags - traditionally, the nobility get other people to do the killing for them, rather than doing it themselves. Attending the Officer's Academy isn't just a matter of strength in combat, but depends also on status or renown of one's family, financial means, and (most likely) being in good standing with the Church of Seiros. The goal isn't to churn out the strongest soldiers, but rather the most capable leaders (who will, in turn, bend the knee to the Goddess and the Archbishop).

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You know except all Kingdom Nobility are trained from birth to fight and the Alliance constantly have skirmishes with one another such that Lorenz can be reasonably expected to hold off a siege on his on lands while still in school. Every unit your recruit is replace with a NATION General, i.e. The average student is by the time skip equivalent to a general for that faction in a series where the leaders are also usually the most powerful fighters. All in all there is not a single student character who can be considered explicitly weaker than the average soldier unless the game has explicitly stated they are weaker than the average soldier. Even Dorothea and her opera troupe are trained combatants, Manuela managed as a combat instructor, Dorothea was a trained fighter and mage, the opera company is a recruits le battalion. Weaker is relative to the fact you have literal super humans running around and even the crestless have their peak of physical humanity like Raphael and Dedue.

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Kinda late, but here are my rankings:

Linhardt: 3/10

He is a researcher first, and a healer, not a fighter in any way. If he trained for it, he probably could be quite decent, but since he doesn't he stays low.

Annette: 6/10?

She is at the very least competent with magic, has a crest and a relic, so she should be able of holding her own in both long distance and close combat.

Lysithea: 8/10

Probably the strongest playable mage. Has two crests and is a hardworker, the perfect recipe for a powerhouse. The lack of her very own relic kinda hurts her rank.

Cyril: 6/10

Post timeskip he should have a decent amount of experience. Having a wyvern by itself probably makes you average at least tbh.

Edited by Sbuscoz

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Petra: 7,5/10

Petra comes off pretty well. Edelgard is a though mistress to please and she frequently comments very positively on Petra. She's shown to be a hard worker with already plenty of experience as a hunter and a desire to prove herself. Petra having boons in just about every physical weapon except lances shows she's got plenty of skill. Given her canon class and overall character design Petra should be one of the fastest students out there which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Petra's speed will do her a lot of good against most enemies but she might struggle against characters that are heavily armored. 

Felix: 8,5/10

Felix is a lot like Caspar. He kinda needs to be good at fighting since that's pretty much all he's good at. At first glance Felix certainly looks the better fighter. He's very cold and serious and his lack of wacky traits make his desire to train with extremely strong opponents like Byleth or Jeritza seem more legitimate challenges than complete foolishness. Felix trains all the time and doesn't express any inferiority to even complete beasts like Dimitri. As far as fighting goes Felix probably has it all, strength, skill and a right mind for tactics. 

To further boost Felix power he also has a crest of Fraldarious and a relic too. As far as Blions go Felix is probably only second to Dimitri himself. 

Marianne: 6/10

Marianne shares some similarities with the weaker characters. She's primarily a healer and completely unwilling to make use of what little potential she does possess. But she also has some traits going for her. Unlike most healers Marianne is not solely magic focused. One of her starting strength is swordplay and her relic takes the form of a sword. She's very good with animals so she'll have no problem being a mounted class or having some knowledge about how enemy mounted units might behave. Having a crest and a relic doesn't exactly hurt her either. 

Marianne might have ended up pretty strong if she wasn't....well, Marianne. 

Thales: 8,9/10

Given Thales status as the main villain he must be decently powerful but I also don't think Thales is that powerful either. 

As far as main villains go Thales is more resembling of Lekain than of Nergal. He's a big threat because of his faction, connections and intellect but I wouldn't count on him to take down the heroes all on his own. He's a very strong dark mage, capable of blasting byleth pretty far away and creating a dark spell that covers half the map. Then again he's also the only main villain in the series that can get killed accidentally long before his evil plot comes to fruition. That Crimson Flower deems him to be such a step down from Rhea that they don't even bother showing his defeat isn't particularly flattering either. 

In terms of power Thales is very much a secondary villain. He's more like Validar, Lekain or (human)Garon than any final boss and his powers should reflect that. Its no coincidence he's never the final boss. He's a big threat to face in combat but hardly an unstoppable force. In fact his force is so stoppable Dimitri ends up doing it accidentally. That's not a good look. 

 

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Petra: 8(Adult) and 6(Student)

Princess of Brigid stands with Hubert in the last stand of Enbarr.

Felix: 8.5(Adult) and 6.5(Student)

One of the strongest Blue Lions. Been training with the sword since he could remember.

Marrianne: 7.25(Adult) and 5.25(Student)

Carries the Crest of the Beast. Vanishes after Timeskip.

Thales: 8.75(Thales) or 8.25(Arundel)

2nd to last boss on two routes. Masterminded a lot of the disasters before the game begins.

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Aw yiss.

Petra:

Spoiler

7

She's devoted to her training, and her abilities and attitude are well-regarded by others. She's one of the last of Edelgard's allies to fall in VW/AM, and when she survives, she goes on to lead her island home admirably. At the same time, she doesn't have a Crest, and she doesn't get to show off her strength all that much.

Felix:

Spoiler

8

Independent-minded, bearing a major Crest, and devoted to his training, he's among the strongest students at Garreg Mach. His abilities are acknowledged by his classmates and father alike, and he only becomes stronger with his relic shield and sword. Perhaps not as strong as the Boar himself, but a close rival.

Marianne

Spoiler

5

Her two most notable traits are her depression surrounding her crest, and her compassion for her animal friends, neither of which lend themselves to battlefield prowess. Nonetheless, she has good magic potential, and once she comes to accept her Crest, and the Blutgang that comes with it, she can hold her own in batle.

Thales

Spoiler

8

He's the only notable Slitherer who's smart enough not to get killed off, so there's that. When you actually face him in VW/SS, he's not much of a threat, although there's something to be said for being the leader of the dubstep mole people. His greatest moment comes in incapacitating Byleth for five years (non-CF), thereby letting ypu romance your students without it being super weird (still a little weird).

 

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54 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

he's not much of a threat

 

I got a little something called Quake that says otherwise. JK, I always open the door at the start of my turn and kill Thales as fast as possible. But still tho.

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Petra's a 4. Skilled hunter and good at sneaking, but that gives her no edge in a straight fight. As far as I know she hasn't done any accomplishments narratively as a warrior, but her skill proficiencies imply a wyvern or falcoknight which can't be bad.

Thales is a 7.5. He has canonically defeated Byleth (on his own with one shot, I might add). But I think he's also smart enough to acknowledge he can't defeat somebody like Byleth and Rhea in a straight fight. Still I don't think it's a stretch to suggest he's the most powerful mage in Fodlan and Quake alone is quite the X factor. He's also warping around for reasons other than escape, but it's hard to judge the narrative's portrayal of warp magic when we have no idea what its limitations are. He may also have some bodily experiments done on him to overcome his physical shortcomings, though that's only a guess based on Kronya's existence.

Marianne is a 2.5. She has no proficiency in reason magic, and said reason spells trade accuracy for crit which is always iffy. Her crest is a hilariously bad choice for her strengths, and narratively we can assume her refusal to use it means she wouldn't if she needed to. Faith magic isn't good for much in a fight, but I guess Silence would be a huge boon for lesser magic opponents. With the right training she veers toward holy knight, but she's a support unit no matter how you frame her.

Felix is a 7. He had been training all his life to be a knight (because he's a second son), his crest is extremely practical, and his relic moreso. His martial prowess and affinity for training and seeking out tougher opponents is referenced repeatedly in supports as well.

Edited by Glennstavos

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