Jotari Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) The Dragon Gauntlets are the "legendary" weapon of the gauntlet family, requiring a bunch of mithril to forge. Yet they offer the same might as silver gauntlets and an actual reduction in hit by 10%. The even have less durability and are harder to repair (which is obviously a big issue with gauntlets). Though they do come with dragon effectiveness and I suppose it's innate doubling ability would make it great at killing dragons, but do they seem kind of underwhelming compared to the other really rare weapons? I'm still not sure what units actually count as dragons. Do wyvren riding classes count? Or is it just the three or four monster bosses you fight in the game? In either case I don't think making them objectively worse than Silver Gauntlets for the majority of units in the game was a particularly appealing decision. A single point extra in might or some higher accuracy levels would do much more to encourage me to forge them over something like Gradivus. Edited November 28, 2019 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flere210 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 They were more careful than the Cautionis hero when it came to gauntlets, because obviously an entire category of brave weapons is hard to balance. Sadly, this made them generally inferior to brave weapons and we did not get any gauntlet relic(despite getting a brave relic lol). The dragon claves are just 5 accuracy away from silver gauntlets when upgraded, but imo the overall best one is the killer gauntlet because you either get the WM or Fierce iron fist, and both boost critrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Jotari said: The Dragon Gauntlets are the "legendary" weapon of the gauntlet family, requiring a bunch of mithril to forge. Isn't it Wootz steel? Much easier to get than Mithril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, salinea said: Isn't it Wootz steel? Much easier to get than Mithril. Oh is it? Perhaps I'm misremembering. I know it's obtained by getting a Rusted Gauntlet from monsters. So maybe I just lumped it in with the other rare enemy weapons obtained the same way (I'm pretty sure I only forged a pair on my first playthrough and didn't bother on subsequent games). That's definitely a plus, but I don't think it really negates it's relative inferiority to Silver Gauntlets or (as flere pointed out) Killer Gauntlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soroen Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 They are indeed forged with Wootz Steel. As for their overall strength, they are the only weapon who deal effective damage against dragon units in the entire game (which include every demonic beasts) and they aren't supposed to be legendary weapon since they are forgeable. Besides even the Regalia of Archanea aren't much stronger than forged Silver Weapons, specially since they are a tier apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 dragon claws are not the legendary gauntlets the actual one is an unreleased weapon that should be out on the last update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Jotari said: Oh is it? Perhaps I'm misremembering. I know it's obtained by getting a Rusted Gauntlet from monsters. So maybe I just lumped it in with the other rare enemy weapons obtained the same way (I'm pretty sure I only forged a pair on my first playthrough and didn't bother on subsequent games). That's definitely a plus, but I don't think it really negates it's relative inferiority to Silver Gauntlets or (as flere pointed out) Killer Gauntlets. Serenes Forest says Wootz Steel. I checked because I was pretty sure it wasn't Mithril, cuz I was keeping every drop of Mithril I got for the Regalia, but I did forge some Dragon Claw in my game so it didn't seem to compute. Well, sure it doesn't. There's too few interesting Gauntlets for sure and Dragon Claw are just a efficient against a specific target, not the best possible gauntlet ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 How does effective damage even work? Because if it's just doubling or tripling weapon might then that's still dealing less damage per hit then a large portion of the stronger weapons in the game. Granted a brave effect is still a brave effect, but giving it a few more might would definitely be justifiable imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Jotari said: How does effective damage even work? Because if it's just doubling or tripling weapon might then that's still dealing less damage per hit then a large portion of the stronger weapons in the game. Granted a brave effect is still a brave effect, but giving it a few more might would definitely be justifiable imo. It seems to operate according to formula of SoV: Does the effectiveness come from the weapon itself? I.E. Hammer. Then triple the weapon's Mt. Does the effectiveness come from a Combat Art? I.E. Knightkneeler. Then triple the Combat Art's added Mt, but not the base weapon's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said: It seems to operate according to formula of SoV: Does the effectiveness come from the weapon itself? I.E. Hammer. Then triple the weapon's Mt. Does the effectiveness come from a Combat Art? I.E. Knightkneeler. Then triple the Combat Art's added Mt, but not the base weapon's. Interesting, does that mean, say Knightkneeler Horseslayer would do more against a mounted unit than Tempest Lance Horseslayer? Because I always assumed that the second "effectiveness" buff would be redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: It seems to operate according to formula of SoV: Does the effectiveness come from the weapon itself? I.E. Hammer. Then triple the weapon's Mt. Does the effectiveness come from a Combat Art? I.E. Knightkneeler. Then triple the Combat Art's added Mt, but not the base weapon's. So that means the Dragon Gauntlets being used on a dragon effective enemy has the same might as a brave axe, though more hit, which isn't insubstantial, but it is still a bit underwhelming. Tripling the combat art's added might seems like it wouldn't add that much damage, given combat arts rarely go above five or so might (. Edited November 29, 2019 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Jotari said: How does effective damage even work? Because if it's just doubling or tripling weapon might then that's still dealing less damage per hit then a large portion of the stronger weapons in the game. Granted a brave effect is still a brave effect, but giving it a few more might would definitely be justifiable imo. If it's from a weapon, the weapon's might is tripled. If it's from a combat art, (I think) the art's might is doubled. 43 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Interesting, does that mean, say Knightkneeler Horseslayer would do more against a mounted unit than Tempest Lance Horseslayer? Because I always assumed that the second "effectiveness" buff would be redundant. I doubt it - I tried it, and it only added 5 damage as opposed to a normal attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Quickly running the numbers with a WL!Hilda 41 Str, no Abilities but Axefaire, no Battalion, no accessory against a 41 Def General: Unforged Hammer (10 Mt, 56 Atk total)- 37 damage Same Hammer with Helm Splitter (+7 Mt)- 44 damage Iron Axe (-2 base Mt compared to the Hammer)- 15 damage Iron Axe with Helm Splitter- 30 damage Hammer with Diamond Axe (+14 Mt)- 51 damage To run the numbers, fortunately, Hilda's Str and the enemy Def are the same 10 * 3 + 5 = 35 Which means a +2 is unaccounted for. Allies fielded are Seth, Flayn, and all GD units, maybe that explains it. 10 * 3 + 7 + 5 = 42 Again, a +2 is unaccounted for. But, the damage boost is equal to Helm Splitter's Mt calculating it this way. 8 + 5 = 13 8 + 7 * 3 + 5 = 35 What? Why is there a discrepancy here with the displayed ingame? And why is a Training Axe + Helm dealing four less damage with only two less Mt? 8 * 2 + 7 + 5 = 28 (Iron Axe) 6 * 2 + 7 + 5 = 24 (Training Axe) I stand corrected! You double the base weapon's Mt when using an effective Combat Art, not the added Mt. 10 * 3 + 14 + 5 = 49 This makes sense too. So, you never multiply the Combat Art's added Mt, that was my error. CA effective bonuses are * 2 the weapon's base Mt, naturally effective weapons have * 3 their base Mt. These do not stack, with the * 3 taking priority. This hopefully explains everything! Just had to do a little math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPPPPPP270 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Dragon claws exist for monster killing which is nice if you really needed some extra power from your gauntlet user to kill a monster. Granted gauntlet users are well equipped to kill monsters in general with their huge crit rate and multi hit abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 21 hours ago, PPPPPPP270 said: Dragon claws exist for monster killing which is nice if you really needed some extra power from your gauntlet user to kill a monster. Granted gauntlet users are well equipped to kill monsters in general with their huge crit rate and multi hit abilities. Yeah, if you can get the shields down, a Gauntlet user who doubles (that is to say, quadruples) should manage to take out a full HP bar in one round. Especially with Death Blow at their back. Ironically, a quad hit from non-effective gauntlets is almost certainly doing more damage than their "Monster Crusher" combat art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Another question: How is effective damage calculated when you're using a weapon the enemy has a weakness to (e.g. using an Iron Lance against an enemy with "Weakness Lances")? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure the Scale Tipper Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Yeah, any fast Grappler/War Master can tear through an entire health bar of a monster. Which would be very valuable against the following, as well as any other generic monster with 3 bars of health. Spoilered for possible length as well as actual spoilers: Spoiler -Immaculate One Rhea (both paths you fight her) -Hegemon Edelgard -The suped-up Golems in CF Ch. 18. -Wind Caller in GD -The Immovable in the Leonie/Linhardt Paralogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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