Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DefyingFates]

40 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Even if both have the boost (of adrenaline), the adult is winning just because of how young Triandra and Peony were at the time (which is viewable in the trailer. They were maybe 6.

Eh, adrenaline can do some crazy things. It's also possible Triandra stabbed him in the back while he was beating Peony or something. I mean, it's definitely Peony being hurt especially bad that made her snap, being the older sister and all.

41 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

it seems like it would be better-suited to bring that sort of thing out for the final boss of FEH (Allfador (or however they're spelling "all father"), maybe?), since FEH is the crossroads of all other FE games. They may have played that hand too soon for maximum impact.

...I forgot about him. While I think Freyja being a reality-warper gives her the "right" to have a medley of battle tracks as her theme, if that makes sense, it would be more "epic" for Alfadhor to have it instead. Then again, he can just have an epic theme all his own or a medley of final boss themes instead?

And given how Thorr seems more interested in testing humanity, it's possible she and Alfadhor aren't actually villains and Loki's just the one who takes the whole "testing" thing too far.

[SirErrant]

45 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Also, again, it was over the top "feel bad for these guys" which turned off at least my own sympathy. It just wasn't realistic.

Yeah, for sure... I'm just glad FEH is actually trying to make the enemies sympathetic characters now. Laegjarn's death was one of the most frustrating and pointless things I've ever seen. Knowing how IS normally writes their FEH enemy characters, I don't think Freyja's lying, just because that would be too complicated for the writers to come up with when they could have just made a more realistic backstory for Plumeria and Triandra. I do agree that their backstories (Triandra's especially) was way too over the top to be believable, though. Whether or not it was possible, Triandra killing her father was unnecessary when they could have just run away, Triandra becoming Peony's guardian and swearing to protect her and what not. Making Triandra a murderer doesn't really make her a more sympathetic character (but it does make her scarier, I guess?), and it pretty much shot believability.

[Nym]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Where is this being discussed, if I may ask? I can't find anything on the subreddit 😕

The comments. 😛

[Mercakete]

27 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Eh, adrenaline can do some crazy things. It's also possible Triandra stabbed him in the back while he was beating Peony or something. I mean, it's definitely Peony being hurt especially bad that made her snap, being the older sister and all.

...I forgot about him. While I think Freyja being a reality-warper gives her the "right" to have a medley of battle tracks as her theme, if that makes sense, it would be more "epic" for Alfadhor to have it instead. Then again, he can just have an epic theme all his own or a medley of final boss themes instead?

And given how Thorr seems more interested in testing humanity, it's possible she and Alfadhor aren't actually villains and Loki's just the one who takes the whole "testing" thing too far.

Dokkalfar: It sounded like the two were together when their dad attacked, and Peony was cowering behind her sister. Hence the communication between the two and Peony saying "I'm scared" as opposed to just screaming. Especially considering how they supposedly lived, they were probably huddled together when their dad came out to end them. The dialogue really sounded like it was taking place as he was walking toward them (so both were in front of their approaching father.) And I'm not discounting adrenaline at all; just saying that both father and daughter were under its affects, which kind of cancels out the adrenaline factor. (Anger, fear, and excitement all trigger adrenaline.)

Battle Themes: IS has a right to do whatever they want, of course. I was just saying what I think would have had more impact/been more effective. If they do it again, it'll be more old hat than if they had saved the trick. Not saying the FEH final boss won't have an epic theme, it just seems like a bit of a card played too early if you're going for impact.

Bad guys?: Well, Thorr was already a villain in the FEH/Dragalia Lost crossover, I think. (I don't play DL but I remember seeing it somewhere.) But she's definitely more of an antagonist than a villain, and even then, it sometimes benevolent. Her goal is to help mortals grow, so sometimes she does so with assistance, and sometimes with giving them something to overcome. She could totally be an opponent one day (and more so than just attacking some wall in Mjolnir's Strike.) I don't think she or her dad are evil, though. Who knows, though? IS likes making benevolent deities go crazy (Ashera, Duma (he's actually very Thorr-like in his mindset...when he's not crazy from being too old), Mila (people seem to forget that she went crazy just like her bro did)... Even the Rainbow Sage mentions (in Conquest) the beings like him who live too long lose it after a while (which is why he doesn't mind kicking the bucket a bit early.)) Yune's a bit special in that she was crazy and had a time-out and then became not (as) crazy. Probably because she's chaos incarnate, so the system maybe works backwards for her.

@SirErrant

Actually, I thought Laegjarn's situation was a lot more sympathetic. She was dealing with her father, who had gone crazy from the rite, who she couldn't oppose and win against, while trying to protect her sister. So, she took her sister's place, as it was the only thing she could do in that circumstance. It made sense, it showed instead of told, you could see the reasonability behind it... I have no qualms with it.

My main issue is that IS seems to "go soft" on its female characters. I was all excited for Hel being a female big bad, but then they had the whole Eir being sad for her thing: a tender moment at the end. It seems like whenever we have a female big bad, some reason is given as to why they're that way and being all "it's not her fault!" but guys are treated as "he's just pure evil." Likewise, whenever we have a good deity vs an evil one, the "good one" is always female. (Mila vs Duma, Naga vs Grima, even Ashera vs Yune (both female), or Loki vs Thorr (both female) have the player on the side of the lady.) I was so happy when they broke that trend with Freyr vs Freyja, but then they tried to make Freyja sympathetic and made Freyr just as at fault as Freyja, decreasing the contrast and making them seem more like occupational partners where both  did a bad thing but one was repentant and the other became an extremist in her desire to fix it. (He included himself in the plot to get rid of the darkness and turn the human kids into fairies.) At least he's still clearly the "good one" but the contrast was softened. This is more a personal thing, though. I'm tired of the same thing again and again, but IS can do whatever IS wants to do with their intellectual material.

Anyway, the best way for IS to salvage all this is for Freyja to be shown (at some point) to have been lying to Triandra and Plumeria (as I think and hope will happen), having fabricated their nightmares from her own aspects (her desire for her brother, and her loss from the damage of the darkness.) Then, all the fairies band together with the player/Order of Heroes to overthrow her and give Freyr back his power.

As I mentioned, it's in character for her to lie/alter someone's reality into something terrible. She's the nightmare queen, after all, and more than that, historically (old folktales), fairies are NOT to be trusted (particularly the dark ones who ruin you for their own amusement.)

[Sunwoo]

I'm not gonna lie. Triandra and Plumeria's pasts, assuming that they're true, just made me roll my eyes.

It's like IS doesn't know how to make characters sympathetic other than giving them the most hilariously over-the-top tragic backstories, or they just can't write characters who have tragic or messed up backstories but still not justified in being evil. Or they just can't write anymore, period.

Like ... from a writing perspective, it really does nothing for me with regards to those two characters and just makes me dislike them more because of how obvious it is that we're supposed to feel for them.

[DefyingFates]

6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I'm not gonna lie. Triandra and Plumeria's pasts, assuming that they're true, just made me roll my eyes.

It's like IS doesn't know how to make characters sympathetic other than giving them the most hilariously over-the-top tragic backstories, or they just can't write characters who have tragic or messed up backstories but still not justified in being evil. Or they just can't write anymore, period.

Like ... from a writing perspective, it really does nothing for me with regards to those two characters and just makes me dislike them more because of how obvious it is that we're supposed to feel for them.

I agree. It really depends on how they act on their tragic backstories, or what they did in them. Plumeria for example was completely passive in her own story and hasn't done anything since. The latter is true for Triandra, but she killed her father as a child so we can at least infer that she was/ is fiercely protective of her sister. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Darth Vader-esque last minute act of rebellion from her once she finds out who Peony is.

[Sunwoo]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

I agree. It really depends on how they act on their tragic backstories, or what they did in them. Plumeria for example was completely passive in her own story and hasn't done anything since. The latter is true for Triandra, but she killed her father as a child so we can at least infer that she was/ is fiercely protective of her sister. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Darth Vader-esque last minute act of rebellion from her once she finds out who Peony is.

Well, part of the problem is that FEH just doesn't have a good structure for storytelling. Assuming book 4 is like the others, we get 13 chapters with five parts and not a lot of story throughout. Some of the middle parts seem to only feature the character-of-the-week saying a one-liner with nothing at the end, and a lot of the story dialogue is crammed into the first chapter or the last chapter, with a little bit of padding in the other chapters. FEH seems to have followed this pattern since around book 2, and it's just not enough to balance the characters -- much less the AMOUNT of characters they keep on shoving into the story.

I don't like it when games or books or movies try to TELL me who I should feel bad for and who I should sympathize with. A good story and writer would make that clear without just saying it straight to the readers' face "oh, so-and-so is terribly tragic because ___", and there should be things within the characters' actions or personalities that make them sympathetic than just their background.

Triandra and Plumeria didn't even seem to remember their pasts until after Freyja told them. So, can the things they did and believed in up until then be still attributed to their "tragic" backstory? Or is it just a cheap attempt to add depth to characters who were disconnected to their life before?

[Mercakete]

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Well, part of the problem is that FEH just doesn't have a good structure for storytelling. Assuming book 4 is like the others, we get 13 chapters with five parts and not a lot of story throughout. Some of the middle parts seem to only feature the character-of-the-week saying a one-liner with nothing at the end, and a lot of the story dialogue is crammed into the first chapter or the last chapter, with a little bit of padding in the other chapters. FEH seems to have followed this pattern since around book 2, and it's just not enough to balance the characters -- much less the AMOUNT of characters they keep on shoving into the story.

I don't like it when games or books or movies try to TELL me who I should feel bad for and who I should sympathize with. A good story and writer would make that clear without just saying it straight to the readers' face "oh, so-and-so is terribly tragic because ___", and there should be things within the characters' actions or personalities that make them sympathetic than just their background.

Triandra and Plumeria didn't even seem to remember their pasts until after Freyja told them. So, can the things they did and believed in up until then be still attributed to their "tragic" backstory? Or is it just a cheap attempt to add depth to characters who were disconnected to their life before?

Good points, especially that last bit.

[Sentinel07]

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Well, part of the problem is that FEH just doesn't have a good structure for storytelling. Assuming book 4 is like the others, we get 13 chapters with five parts and not a lot of story throughout. Some of the middle parts seem to only feature the character-of-the-week saying a one-liner with nothing at the end, and a lot of the story dialogue is crammed into the first chapter or the last chapter, with a little bit of padding in the other chapters. FEH seems to have followed this pattern since around book 2, and it's just not enough to balance the characters -- much less the AMOUNT of characters they keep on shoving into the story.

I don't like it when games or books or movies try to TELL me who I should feel bad for and who I should sympathize with. A good story and writer would make that clear without just saying it straight to the readers' face "oh, so-and-so is terribly tragic because ___", and there should be things within the characters' actions or personalities that make them sympathetic than just their background.

Triandra and Plumeria didn't even seem to remember their pasts until after Freyja told them. So, can the things they did and believed in up until then be still attributed to their "tragic" backstory? Or is it just a cheap attempt to add depth to characters who were disconnected to their life before?

I agree to an extent.

I wouldn't really call Heroes' story good. It's more that I've just accepted that there are certain flaws they're not going to get rid of and I may as well just going along with it. Still, even with their very flawed story structure, they do just enough to at least keep me intrigued as to where they'll take in.

In a way, it's kind of like Kingdom Hearts to me. I don't know if I'd call KH's story good or bad, but the fun comes in how crazy and intriguing it is and you have no idea where it'll go as a result. Heroes is kind of along similar lines. Not really what I'd call good, but it keeps my interest just enough for me to want to know what's next.

[Hilda]

I dont know, Book 3 was ok. Book 4 looked promising but got trashed the last 2-3 chapters.

Not only does the limited amount of chapter hinder the story building, but the fact that IS just kinda doesnt want to change or aknowledge any status quo hinders the development of the OG characters.

You can bypass the limited amount of chapters by allowing seasonal chapters to carry the story too, or by lenghtening the chapters (if its the free orbs, they could just switch it to feathers or 10 grails).

Like seriously Alfonses Dad died in Book 3, how about i dont know, a crowning ceremony and then let it fly 2-3 years and meet a new changed King Alfonse (maybe even as a new unit)?

or Veronica actually joining force for real with Askr, or Brunos return having some impact, instead of using him as a plot devise: "omg Bruno gave us the hint via letter yada yada yada!"

[Etrurian emperor]

12 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I'm not gonna lie. Triandra and Plumeria's pasts, assuming that they're true, just made me roll my eyes.

It's like IS doesn't know how to make characters sympathetic other than giving them the most hilariously over-the-top tragic backstories, or they just can't write characters who have tragic or messed up backstories but still not justified in being evil. Or they just can't write anymore, period.

I'm going to guess its not true and that Freya is just trying to manipulate the girls. Its not like either of the girls remember it very much so she can say whatever she wants. Them remembering things and her immediately going ''Oh don't you know how extremely terrible that was!'' seems rather convenient. 

[Mercakete]

It's looking like we're not getting any dude fairies besides Freyr either, which is a bit disappointing. I wanted to see what they'd do with a design like that. Also, just the FEH male character count...

Kiran (he's always a guy in the cutscenes, so I'm counting him as one), Alfonse, Bruno, Surtr, Helbindi, Hrid, Gustav, Lif, Freyr and Alfadhor (who has only been mentioned by Thorr instead of actually being introduced. He has a name, though, so I'm counting him.) That's 10 guys.

Now, the ladies...

Anna, Sharena, Veronica, Fjorm, Leavateinn, Loki, Gunnthra, Laegjarn, Ylgr, Queen Askr (I can't remember her name right now), Eir, Thrasir, Hel, Thorr, Peony, Triandra, Plumeria, Mirabilis, and Freyja. That's 19 gals.

More dudes please.

[DefyingFates]

4 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Queen Askr (I can't remember her name right now)

Henriette 🙂

But on topic...yeah, I didn't realise the women almost outnumbered the men 2:1 - a bit more than that even if you exclude Kiran. Crazy stuff...

[Sunwoo]

I feel like we need less OCs in general. Book 3 is my favorite book so far mostly because it didn't clutter up the story with so many OCs ... and even then, only Lif really got a lot of attention. Thrasir was treated kind of like a throwaway character compared to Lif and her arc with Veronica was wrapped up in one chapter with minimal interactions outside of it. Hel was around for the beginning and then came back in the end, and Eir ... well, we didn't really get that in-depth with her.

Book 2 would've benefitted from merging Hrid and Gunnthra, since Gunnthra exists just to die and Hrid exists too late to do anything worthwhile. Also, we could've cut out one of the Muspell sisters and just given Helbindi an expanded role that lets him take over for the missing sister. Ylgr could probably be cut out as well? Yeah, her interactions with Helbindi do bring out the good in him early on, but I think Helbindi would've switched without her after hearing what Surtr did to his village.

And I would like to have some more male characters as well ... at the very least, I want at least one of our freebie characters to be male. It's not that I necessarily mind the female characters, but there's just too many of them, they're just thrown in there to be cheap waifu bait, and barely any of them get developed. Veronica's really the only female character who got lucky enough to get character development. No one else has really changed or gotten a lot of depth, and I just don't think we needed this many of them.

[SirErrant]

20 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Actually, I thought Laegjarn's situation was a lot more sympathetic. She was dealing with her father, who had gone crazy from the rite, who she couldn't oppose and win against, while trying to protect her sister. So, she took her sister's place, as it was the only thing she could do in that circumstance. It made sense, it showed instead of told, you could see the reasonability behind it... I have no qualms with it.

Good point. I forgot why she did it, just that it felt like a needless death. I think it was a good idea, but the execution felt kind of like she was doing it out of nowhere to give her a temporary boost against the Askr trio instead of defending her sister necessarily. Just my take on it. 

14 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

I wouldn't really call Heroes' story good. It's more that I've just accepted that there are certain flaws they're not going to get rid of and I may as well just going along with it. Still, even with their very flawed story structure, they do just enough to at least keep me intrigued as to where they'll take in.

Totally agree with this.

7 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

And I would like to have some more male characters as well ... at the very least, I want at least one of our freebie characters to be male.

It seems like FEH just has some sort of grudge for male OC characters. Either they're almost completely irrelevant to the plot (Helbindi, Hrid), even more poorly developed than the girls (Surtr), or disappear/get killed off (Bruno, Gustav). It wouldn't be a crime to give us a decent male character besides Alfonse, would it? 

And yeah, a freebie male character would be super cool.

[Etrurian emperor]

On 7/21/2020 at 11:16 PM, Mercakete said:

Bad guys?: Well, Thorr was already a villain in the FEH/Dragalia Lost crossover, I think. (I don't play DL but I remember seeing it somewhere.) But she's definitely more of an antagonist than a villain, and even then, it sometimes benevolent. Her goal is to help mortals grow, so sometimes she does so with assistance, and sometimes with giving them something to overcome

I always found Thorr's role in that crossover to be very odd and question how canon we're supposed to take it. Thorr does not seem like a bad gall. She's fairly helpful and as you said seems to have a desire to help mortals grow rather than troll them like Loki. Thorr taking time out of her day to torture Alfonse doesn't seem like something she'd really do. 

 

[Sentinel07]

16 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I always found Thorr's role in that crossover to be very odd and question how canon we're supposed to take it. Thorr does not seem like a bad gall. She's fairly helpful and as you said seems to have a desire to help mortals grow rather than troll them like Loki. Thorr taking time out of her day to torture Alfonse doesn't seem like something she'd really do. 

 

It's kind of hard to say given Thorr has rarely done anything direct in Heroes so far, but I guess it depends on just what lengths she's willing to go through to help mortals grow.

The whole "pain helps one grow" trope is not uncommon.

[Mercakete]

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I always found Thorr's role in that crossover to be very odd and question how canon we're supposed to take it. Thorr does not seem like a bad gall. She's fairly helpful and as you said seems to have a desire to help mortals grow rather than troll them like Loki. Thorr taking time out of her day to torture Alfonse doesn't seem like something she'd really do. 

Well, she is definitely an antagonist at times. I mean, she's always the primary antagonist in Mjolnir's Strike (but a benevolent force to Formas), but just because she's opposing the player doesn't mean she's fundamentally against the Order of Heroes. She just loves seeing people reach their potential.

[Medeus]

On 7/21/2020 at 3:03 PM, DefyingFates said:

And given how Thorr seems more interested in testing humanity, it's possible she and Alfadhor aren't actually villains and Loki's just the one who takes the whole "testing" thing too far.

It's possible that what Thorr is doing isn't to prepare the cast to fight her, but for a fight ahead. Jotunheimr is one of the last remaining worlds that FEH hasn't touched yet, and it's one that has a number of characters that either hail from it (ex. Þjazi, Þrymr, Utgard-Loki) or descend from it (ex. Fenrir, Jormungandr) that can make easy villains for FEH. What the story could do is that Asgard is trying to strengthen Askr and Embla's army to the point that they can help in fending off a future invasion from that world.

On 7/21/2020 at 5:22 PM, Sunwoo said:

 

Triandra and Plumeria didn't even seem to remember their pasts until after Freyja told them. So, can the things they did and believed in up until then be still attributed to their "tragic" backstory? Or is it just a cheap attempt to add depth to characters who were disconnected to their life before?

This is a fair point, if the two had even an inkling of their past and it drove their characters then this backstory would be more meaningful. However, since they forgot it that means their actions aren't driven by this fact so it doesn't really add depth to them. 

[Etrurian emperor]

I agree that the Heroes team likes their OC's a bit too much. Part of the reason why Anna and Sharena haven't developed in ages is because their many companions are stifling them. The way Heroes tells its story is a limiting factor and they just don't have the quantity of a story required to give every character they introduce their due. Sometimes the new OC's that are introduced aren't even given the chance to do or say anything. Hrid's only contribution to the plot is that he meets the heroes and then does absolutely nothing for the whole story. Perhaps giving more units for free would have helped with this a bit. Giving you a free Hrid would suggest that he actively contributes in the fight against Muspel, giving you a freebie Veronica helps highlight her teaming up with Alfonse to take down Hell. I know its against the gacha code but it would be better for the story. 

I'm also starting to get a little bit annoyed with how the story incorporates the various Heroes that team Alfonse has to fight. Because as it stands the story typically doesn't incorporate them at all. Its practically gameplay and story segregation. Usually a single Hero has a generic one-liner before the battle and no one in the cast ever recognizes they just fought someone important. Its a case of wasted potential. Lugh should be mortified that he's forced to fight for Hell, or he could see the good in Lif just as he sees the good in Raigh and Idunn. Instead he just says ''Hi I'm Lugh'' without a care in the world. The Black Fang could also fight Alfonse due to a bounty being put on him but they just randomly show up in Surtre's castle without anyone commenting on it. Even very minor tweaks to the chapter dialogue would be enough to fix these things so its strange that IS isn't even interested in that. 

I'm aware that its a gacha game and we should keep our expectations low, but as I said only the bare minimum would be required for a lot of characters. Just give Lugh a single dialogue box where he says ''Lif is rough around the edges but I feel he has a good heart'' or have Legault's one-liner be ''Nothing personal prince, I'm just doing my job''. 

[SirErrant]

@Etrurian emperor I think they tried this in book 1 and then just gave up for some unknown reason. sigh...

11 hours ago, Medeus said:

It's possible that what Thorr is doing isn't to prepare the cast to fight her, but for a fight ahead. Jotunheimr is one of the last remaining worlds that FEH hasn't touched yet, and it's one that has a number of characters that either hail from it (ex. Þjazi, Þrymr, Utgard-Loki) or descend from it (ex. Fenrir, Jormungandr) that can make easy villains for FEH. What the story could do is that Asgard is trying to strengthen Askr and Embla's army to the point that they can help in fending off a future invasion from that world.

That's my personal canon for now. Thorr doesn't seem like she wants to battle the OC's head on, otherwise she would have already done it. It also seems like she's interested in recruiting strong warriors (Lif and Thrasir, for example) for some currently unknown reason, which could be to defend against the upcoming Ragnarok / doomsday invasion that'll come in book 5. Since FEH's borrowing from Norse mythology, that would make for the most natural story progression. Who knows, though? IS does what IS wants. 

[Sentinel07]

12 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I agree that the Heroes team likes their OC's a bit too much. Part of the reason why Anna and Sharena haven't developed in ages is because their many companions are stifling them. The way Heroes tells its story is a limiting factor and they just don't have the quantity of a story required to give every character they introduce their due. Sometimes the new OC's that are introduced aren't even given the chance to do or say anything. Hrid's only contribution to the plot is that he meets the heroes and then does absolutely nothing for the whole story. Perhaps giving more units for free would have helped with this a bit. Giving you a free Hrid would suggest that he actively contributes in the fight against Muspel, giving you a freebie Veronica helps highlight her teaming up with Alfonse to take down Hell. I know its against the gacha code but it would be better for the story. 

I'm also starting to get a little bit annoyed with how the story incorporates the various Heroes that team Alfonse has to fight. Because as it stands the story typically doesn't incorporate them at all. Its practically gameplay and story segregation. Usually a single Hero has a generic one-liner before the battle and no one in the cast ever recognizes they just fought someone important. Its a case of wasted potential. Lugh should be mortified that he's forced to fight for Hell, or he could see the good in Lif just as he sees the good in Raigh and Idunn. Instead he just says ''Hi I'm Lugh'' without a care in the world. The Black Fang could also fight Alfonse due to a bounty being put on him but they just randomly show up in Surtre's castle without anyone commenting on it. Even very minor tweaks to the chapter dialogue would be enough to fix these things so its strange that IS isn't even interested in that. 

I'm aware that its a gacha game and we should keep our expectations low, but as I said only the bare minimum would be required for a lot of characters. Just give Lugh a single dialogue box where he says ''Lif is rough around the edges but I feel he has a good heart'' or have Legault's one-liner be ''Nothing personal prince, I'm just doing my job''. 

Honestly, I don't think Anna was ever really intended to have character development. I think they basically just figured they'd make her a commander given she's kind of a series mascot. Other than the new title, she's just like every other Anna. I feel pretty certain that developing Anna was never their intention. Hell, I don't think Anna has had character development in any game she's been in.

Sharena on the other hand, that's a valid concern. Of course with her, we'll have to see just what they're trying to build with her in Book 4.

I think the story would be better had it not been tied to new hero banners. For comparison, look at Dragalia Lost's story. It's got a lot more flexibility in how it handles itself, and that's because it doesn't tie itself to banners. It never concerns itself with any characters who aren't necessary. Heroes on the other hand wastes about 3/5 of each chapter just showing off new units and nothing more, leaving little time to actually explore it's OC cast.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Sentinel07

[Mercakete]

17 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Hrid's only contribution to the plot is that he meets the heroes and then does absolutely nothing for the whole story.

Hey now, that's not exactly accurate. Hrid was doing a lot of work offscreen before meeting with the reinforcements Fjorm brought. He was leading Nifl's army against Muspell and even actively fought against Surtr, but was forced to retreat. He was still recovering from that fight when the player meets him.

Regarding adjusting the dialogue to fit the story better (such as your Lugh example), I think that's a good suggestion. You should definitely send it in as feedback. 🙂

@SirErrant

I think we have at least a couple more books ahead of us before Ragnarok. There's still the founding dragons/Embla's curse to confront (which I suspect will be its own book, probably 2nd to last with the final one being Ragnarok.) Not sure when we'll meet Eir's actual parents, but she's the daughter of a life deity, and I doubt they're not going to bring that back. During Ragnarok, we'll probably see restored Nifl (run by Hrid) and restored Muspell (run by Leavateinn) come as NPC backups to help Alfonse (ruler of Askr) and either Veonica or Bruno (ruler of Embla) in the final confrontation. Lif and Thrasir will already be repping book 3 by helping Thorr/Alfador (who Thorr recruited them on behalf of.) Also, depending on how this plays out, the ruler of the fairies. Probably both Freyr and Freyja (since I think she'll be redeemed.) And whoever's in charge of Jormungdr (or however you spell it), which is probably where book 5 will take place. And probably have something to do with wolves (like Fenrir.) Maybe we'll have a wolf boss who eats the sun and a counterpart that eats the moon and they'll be the big bads we have to beat so they cough up the celestial bodies.

So, we're in book 4, then I imagine book 5 will be Jormungder, then book 6 will be the four founding dragons (Askr, Embla, Muspell and Nifl) climaxing in Bruno finally getting rid of the Emblian curse, then book 7 will be Ragnarok/the gods gearing up for Ragnarok (and maybe have something to do with the world tree + the blood eagle.)

[Sentinel07]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Hey now, that's not exactly accurate. Hrid was doing a lot of work offscreen before meeting with the reinforcements Fjorm brought. He was leading Nifl's army against Muspell and even actively fought against Surtr, but was forced to retreat. He was still recovering from that fight when the player meets him.

Regarding adjusting the dialogue to fit the story better (such as your Lugh example), I think that's a good suggestion. You should definitely send it in as feedback. 🙂

@SirErrant

I think we have at least a couple more books ahead of us before Ragnarok. There's still the founding dragons/Embla's curse to confront (which I suspect will be its own book, probably 2nd to last with the final one being Ragnarok.) Not sure when we'll meet Eir's actual parents, but she's the daughter of a life deity, and I doubt they're not going to bring that back. During Ragnarok, we'll probably see restored Nifl (run by Hrid) and restored Muspell (run by Leavateinn) come as NPC backups to help Alfonse (ruler of Askr) and either Veonica or Bruno (ruler of Embla) in the final confrontation. Lif and Thrasir will already be repping book 3 by helping Thorr/Alfador (who Thorr recruited them on behalf of.) Also, depending on how this plays out, the ruler of the fairies. Probably both Freyr and Freyja (since I think she'll be redeemed.) And whoever's in charge of Jormungdr (or however you spell it), which is probably where book 5 will take place. And probably have something to do with wolves (like Fenrir.) Maybe we'll have a wolf boss who eats the sun and a counterpart that eats the moon and they'll be the big bads we have to beat so they cough up the celestial bodies.

So, we're in book 4, then I imagine book 5 will be Jormungder, then book 6 will be the four founding dragons (Askr, Embla, Muspell and Nifl) climaxing in Bruno finally getting rid of the Emblian curse, then book 7 will be Ragnarok/the gods gearing up for Ragnarok (and maybe have something to do with the world tree + the blood eagle.)

I honestly wonder just if they'll really dive into everything they've implied so far.

There's Eir's whole "bring born from the dragon of life" story, and there's Loki's research into dragons. They've left a lot of little lines like that be so far. It makes me wonder if they'll remember to wrap them all up.

[SirErrant]

On 7/23/2020 at 6:17 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Hrid's only contribution to the plot is that he meets the heroes and then does absolutely nothing for the whole story.

17 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Hey now, that's not exactly accurate. Hrid was doing a lot of work offscreen before meeting with the reinforcements Fjorm brought.

To be honest, it was basically both. Yes, Hrid did a bunch of stuff offscreen, but since we never saw any of that happen or any of the consequences of that (besides distracting Surtr for a little?), it's almost as if he did nothing at all. I wish we could have gotten a scene from Hrid's perspective where he fights off Surtr's forces and makes an aside to the fact that he's trying to buy time for Fjorm, Gunnthra, and the Askr trio, that would have improved his relevancy by a lot. At least Gunnthra had some scenes kind of like that so that she stayed somewhat relevant for the first half of book 2. 

Also, Hrid really didn't do anything for the rest of the story. Missed opportunity again.

17 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I think we have at least a couple more books ahead of us before Ragnarok. There's still the founding dragons/Embla's curse to confront (which I suspect will be its own book, probably 2nd to last with the final one being Ragnarok.) Not sure when we'll meet Eir's actual parents, but she's the daughter of a life deity, and I doubt they're not going to bring that back. During Ragnarok, we'll probably see restored Nifl (run by Hrid) and restored Muspell (run by Leavateinn) come as NPC backups to help Alfonse (ruler of Askr) and either Veonica or Bruno (ruler of Embla) in the final confrontation. Lif and Thrasir will already be repping book 3 by helping Thorr/Alfador (who Thorr recruited them on behalf of.) Also, depending on how this plays out, the ruler of the fairies. Probably both Freyr and Freyja (since I think she'll be redeemed.) And whoever's in charge of Jormungdr (or however you spell it), which is probably where book 5 will take place. And probably have something to do with wolves (like Fenrir.) Maybe we'll have a wolf boss who eats the sun and a counterpart that eats the moon and they'll be the big bads we have to beat so they cough up the celestial bodies.

So, we're in book 4, then I imagine book 5 will be Jormungder, then book 6 will be the four founding dragons (Askr, Embla, Muspell and Nifl) climaxing in Bruno finally getting rid of the Emblian curse, then book 7 will be Ragnarok/the gods gearing up for Ragnarok (and maybe have something to do with the world tree + the blood eagle.)

@Mercakete Hmm, I like this a lot, you're right. Of course, this is assuming that IS is planning everything beforehand. It'd be cool to meet Eir's family, have Bruno finally do something about the Emblian curse, and figure out what exactly Loki was doing with her dragon research (as well as the whole book 7 wrapping everything up concept), but would IS put this much forethought into the story? Also, how many books do they actually have planned before they stop development on FEH (assuming they eventually will)?

I really like that scenario, though.