Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread

[vikingsfan92]

This chapter was really good imo

[MilodicMellodi]

A dream within a dream...darkness within darkness...

All joking aside, I liked this one. Although it feels like they just had Plumeria die off, I do like that Peony cried for her.

And that was a good plot twist at the end of part 5. It leaves me with high hopes for what the correlation of Book 5 will be...perhaps Light and Darkness in terms of morality? Could we end up going against Askr's gods?

Here's a real theory...

Spoiler

What if the All Father pits us against Askr and Embla, as in the dragons themselves? What if he brings Anankos into the fight? What if Medeus is brought over to fight for the All Father??

 

[Etrurian emperor]

I think Alfonse is going to be just fine.

Spoiler

Book 3 ended with Lif being recruited into the All Father's army. They are bro's now. It should work out. Thor also doesn't seem like she has it out for Alfonse or Loki could troll her boss for the fun of it. So far I see no one in that faction being very invested in striking down the Fonse. 

 

[Othin]

Really nice to see the story finally really growing beyond the individual books. Curious where things will go from here.

It sounds like Plumeria isn't actually dead, even if she's out of the fight for the time being. Wonder if the same is true for Triandra.

[Mercakete]

... ... ....... Well dang. Time to unpack this.

1. Veronica's reaction to the light fairies was awesome.

2. Haaa Mirabilis...

3. We finally have a name for the world we're from: the World of Steel. Kind of odd about the "no dreams" thing.

4. Triandra's motives were clarified and I appreciate that. She hates her dad and has a strong protective instinct. It's still a bit weird that she was willing to kill her sister, though. Maybe she didn't quite remember that Peony's her sister.

5. It was cool that Freyja is beginning to consider starting to care about what her brother cared about instead of just caring about being with him (shown by the ellipsis after Triandra spoke with her about that.)

6. Yep. People were right: Alfonse was actually Kiran (and vise-versa.) I kind of saw that coming when we were fighting Kiran, but it was sort of obvious by then. Still, Kiran has actual art now! =D It was cool. Maybe he'll be summonable at some point...though, he's technically another Alfonse alt and he's wielding Folkvangr in his art.

7. So, Kiran was just dreaming all along. This also means that we can't really trust what Freyja said about Alfonse, though she's probably being truthful here. Still, this is looking like "it was all a dream and everyone is just fine in reality." After all, Freyja's the nightmare queen, and this really seems like something Kiran might have as a nightmare.

8. I think I remember there being some consequence for Alfonse killing Hel in book 3, so either Freyja's being honest about all this or Kiran's worried about Alfonse and his dreaming mind is reflecting that.

9. Well, I guess Alfonse wound up dying after all. I wasn't expecting that, but it does make a lot of sense. The first book 3 movie showed time kind of looping, and Alfonse dreaming (but it was actually Kiran.) The looping may have just been there to say "everything Kiran's experiencing is a dream even though it looks real." And, of course, the Kiran and Alfonse in the World of Steel scene in the second movie has just come to pass, both with creepy Kiran sneaking up on Alfonse, and Alfonse being in the World of Steel.

10. There goes the books being self-contained.

11. This is making me think that Book 5 will be about Kiran & Co. (Order of Heroes) going directly to Alfador to try to get Alfonse to exist in their world again.

 

Also, the irony here is that I was using Hel on these maps.

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the plot twist. It really means something for the bigger story here. Man... That's a bit heavy. I want to see what's going on outside of the dream! Where's Alfonse? Hmm I wonder if Lif will wind up helping us get Alfonse back... Maybe Hrid, Leavateinn, and Peony, too, with that "call to the countries" I talked about before. Anyway, the next book might be the last if we're taking on Alfador next. I mean, you can't get much bigger than that, right? I mean, there's the blood eagle, I suppose. We're going to make ragnarok happen, aren't we? And Loki will probably happily lead us right to the world of the gods because Loki always causes ragnarok. And we're ragnarok this time...because we want to save this one guy, you know? Very JRPG: killing gods with the power of friendship. (Okay, so I'm not a huge fan of giant grandiose fights.) Anyway, setting personal biases aside, I do wonder if IS will bring in the four dragons (Muspell, Nifl, Askr, and Embla.) I'd like a Book X that follows Bruno as he tries to un-curse himself and his sister, since I'm not sure how they're going to fit the conclusion of that (or the four dragons) in before ragnarok at this pace of development.

[DefyingFates]

I admit I was a little worried when there was no story to 12-2, but overall this was a really, really interesting chapter!

Veronica being fed up with the Light Elves was wonderful as ever with even Peony getting frustrated.

I loved Triandra's talk with Freyja, especially her admitting she and Plumeria adore her and Freyja beginning to feel guilty as a result. I spy a redemption arc coming. Triandra's death(?) was sad too, even if the realization that she and Peony were sisters came out of nowhere. Maybe IS skipped it for how obvious it was after the last trailer?

And then came the Kiran reveal: I know everyone predicted it after the last chapter, but the nature of the reveal was really clever. There were a few jokes about killing Hel having no effect on the world, but it turned out it actually did? Alfonse is definitely still alive but likely kidnapped, so not only does this Book follow on from Book 3 (on top of the Hel and Surtr cameos) it sets up Book 5 too: incredible! Oh, and Kiran!Alfonse's name being blanked out was a neat touch, as was Kiran's name and even bio just being "???" - though they has an epithet: Near and Dear. It's sweet and while I doubt they'll be playable I like that attention to detail. And they just had Alfonse's vanilla kit. That was a neat touch!

I am curious what'll happen to this Alfonse. I'm willing to believe his last line being "..." is just because he was stunned by Freyja's words - I really hope he doesn't become a silent protagonist going forward, though I welcome the opportunity for Sharena or Anna to take the lead for the last chapter and Book 5.

By the way, I wonder if Freyja will follow them into the real world? It seems all the Order needs to do to escape is wake up and if Freyja really does reform I guess that solves the immediate threat too. That said, with the cliffhanger for Book 5 I'm willing to cut this one some slack if it stumbles on the landing.

(Also I'm curious if we'll learn more about Eir's true parentage next year too.)

Edited October 19, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Diovani Bressan]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Still, Kiran has actual art now! =D It was cool. Maybe he'll be summonable at some point...though, he's technically another Alfonse alt and he's wielding Folkvangr in his art.

I liked Kiran's art. Nice touch having the special art effect the same as Alfonse's 

I wouldn't mind a Masked Marth situation, where we get Kiran in a TT or something and still being a Alfonse clone... but with the new BST though, since he would be from a different generation. Too bad no voice clips. 

According to the data: 

Kiran stats are: 45 HP, 40 Atk, 22 Spd, 39 Def and 30 Res, for a total 176 BST.

We can compare Alfonse's stats to Kiran's, I guess. 

Alfonse has 43 HP, 35 Atk, 25 Spd, 32 Def and 22 Res, with 157 BST. 

Interesting... Kiran has less Spd than Alfonse, for some reason. Since we know he will not double, better put some of that Spd points in something else, I guess. 

Kiran is kinda a slower but more defensive Spring Bartre. lol 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I liked Kiran's art. Nice touch having the special art effect the same as Alfonse's

I was dumb and kept animations off during this fight, but that is a really great touch, thank you for mentioning it! I just saw Kiran's damaged art too. Considering part of his chest is exposed...well, it was always obvious Kiran was a male self-insert, but if you really needed proof..:P

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Kiran stats are: 45 HP, 40 Atk, 22 Spd, 39 Def and 30 Res, for a total 176 BST.

Alfonse has 43 HP, 35 Atk, 25 Spd, 32 Def and 22 Res, with 157 BST. 

I don't think we could ask for a clearer example of powercreep. According to this, Kiran has an Atk Superboon too which would put him at 180 BST with a merge if we ever got him exactly as is. I still think he's enemy only, but now that you mention MMarth it'd be pretty cool to get him as a reward down the line as with her. Maybe with Open the Future and an alternate Folkvangr (or would that be too generous)?

Edit: Story-wise, if we really are getting Ragnarok for Book 5 I wonder if Freyja will help out for that if she repents,even if it's just telling them where to go or who to talk to? It'd be cool to see those from the other realms show up too and then we could get a more "back to basics" story of Askr and Embla for Book 6.

Edited October 19, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Mercakete]

58 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I wouldn't mind a Masked Marth situation, where we get Kiran in a TT or something and still being a Alfonse clone... but with the new BST though, since he would be from a different generation. Too bad no voice clips. 

@DefyingFates

I want him in an FB where he talks to Lif and Alfonse in a sort of awkward silence of ellipses as everyone tries to figure out what to say. Like...

Lif: Hm? Kiran? ... No. You are...different...

Kiralfonse: ...

Alfonse: Oh. Hello, Lif. Kir- ... No, you're that copy of me...

Lif: Copy?

Alfonse: While I was gone, in the dream world, Kiran dreamed of this version of me. It was likely his unconscious mind trying to tell him the true nature of the dream.

Lif: And then Kiran summoned him here...

Alfonse: Yes. It really is amazing that the summoner can even bring beings such as this into our world...

Lif: No wonder...

Alfonse: Hm?

Lif: This copy... He is not truly alive. He reminds me of the Einheijar present in other worlds. Only...

Alfonse: He has no spirit. I know. He may bear our face, but he does not behave like us at all.

Lif: Us? I may share many things with you, Alfonse, but I cannot say that we are the same. Not any longer... The events in my own world have shaped me into someone entirely different. Even this listless figment of a dream is more like you than I.

Kiralfonse: ...

Alfonse: I don't think that's true. You and I still think alike in many ways. Back in the land of the dead, we could even anticipate what one another was planning. Even though we have had such different experiences, at our core, we are the same.

Lif: ... Perhaps. And what of this Alfonse?

Kiralfonse: ...

Alfonse: He was created within Kiran's dream. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what that makes him in relation to us.

Kiralfonse: ...

Lif: ...

Kiralfonse: ...

Lif: ...A promise.

Alfonse: Huh?

Lif: Or perhaps a symbol... He is a sort of manifestation of the bond we share with Kiran. He only exists because of that bond...and because Kiran could not bear to be in a world in which you have been lost to him. He is a symbol of our friendship.

Alfonse: "Our" is it?

Lif: Perhaps.

 

Well, that kind of turned out more elaborate than I'd envisioned initially.

 

On the topic of Kiran being male... Yeah, good point on the damaged art. It really went by too fast for me to get a good look at the art, sadly. And as I said before, I'm sure I saw him be referred to as "he" once. It was early on (maybe in one of the first two or three TT's or in book 1) and it's not like they've done that since, but I know I saw it since I was surprised to see it and (at the time) double-checked to confirm.

[Diovani Bressan]

@Mercakete 

Nah... Kiran's FB conversation will be with Kiran.

They will stare to each other in all 4 supports.

[DefyingFates]

7 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Well, that kind of turned out more elaborate than I'd envisioned initially.

And I loved it! Here I thought you were just going to write up a meme 😛

7 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

On the topic of Kiran being male... Yeah, good point on the damaged art. It really went by too fast for me to get a good look at the art, sadly. And as I said before, I'm sure I saw him be referred to as "he" once. It was early on (maybe in one of the first two or three TT's or in book 1) and it's not like they've done that since, but I know I saw it since I was surprised to see it and (at the time) double-checked to confirm.

I probably would have missed it too had I not checked the datamine for him. And the prior precedent is interesting, thank you for bringing it up! Again: Kiran was always meant to be a guy, but clearly this isn't the first time IS messed up xD

@Diovani Bressan: So like the localized Saizo/ Beruka C Support?

Edited October 19, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Diovani Bressan]

3 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

So like the localized Saizo/ Beruka C Support?

Pretty much. lol

Also, about the Kiran's chest exposed... this Kiran is basically Alfonse with Kiran's clothes... Would be weird if he had boobs in the art. lol

Edited October 19, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[Mercakete]

34 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

@Mercakete 

Nah... Kiran's FB conversation will be with Kiran.

They will stare to each other in all 4 supports.

XD Okay, actually laughed at that.

But also, if Alfador was all "No Alfonses for your world" then...well, I guess New Year Alfonse's "good luck" fortune lied. At least he doesn't have to wear the bunny costume anymore...since, y'know, he stopped existing...

For serious, though, I thought about including them but forgot about them as I was writing.

Also, good point about Alfonse in Kiran's coat thing. The image is still clearly Kiran instead of Alfonse, though. Different jaw line, for one. Plus, in all the movies that show Kiran from the front, he looks like this.

@DefyingFates

Thanks! XD Yeah, I always feel out what's in-character when I write.

BONUS!

Bunny Alfonse: *sneeze*

New Years' Sharena: Bless you!

Bunny Alfonse: *sniff* Thanks, Sharena. Oh! Sorry, I assumed you were the Sharena from my world.

New Years' Sharena: Hehehe! That's okay! I do the same thing!

New Years' Alfonse: Salutations.

Bunny Alfonse: Hello to you as well, Alfonse. Hmm...

New Years' Alfonse: Is something wrong?

New Years' Sharena: Well, he did sneeze. Maybe he's catching a cold.

Bunny Alfonse: I'm fine, thanks. I was just thinking about something I'd heard... Alfonse, you received a fortune at the new year, didn't you?

New Years' Alfonse: Yes. You want to hear it, don't you?

New Years' Sharena: I'll be he's ALL EARS!

Bunny Alfonse: Ha. Ha. Right... Anyway, yes. So far, this year has been rather hazardous for the Alfonse of this world. I suppose it's just making me a little nervous.

New Years' Alfonse: You're right about that... Hmm..

Bunny Alfonse: Yes?

New Years' Alfonse: The fortune I got this year said that I would have good luck. Maybe it doesn't apply to all other Alfonses here, and just to me.

Bunny Alfonse: Oh... And with the new year already so far advanced, a new fortune probably wouldn't help us much...

New Years' Sharena: Well, that's easy to fix!

New Years' Alfonse: It is?

New Years' Sharena: Kiran summons all kinds of heroes here! There has to be at least one fortune-teller who can explain the rules of new years fortunes. Maybe we can even get a fortune told for you, Alfonse! Um, that is, the one in the bunny costume.

New Years' Alfonse: Why are you wearing that, anyway?

Bunny Alfonse: The Sharena from my Askr talked me into it. The spring festival was fun, but...

New Years' Alfonse: I understand. Better than most, probably.

Bunny Alfonse: I appreciate that. Anyway, that's a good idea, Sharena! Let's start asking around. I'm sure that there's a hero who can tell fortunes somewhere around here. It would be a relief to find out that not every Alfonse in this Askr will have the same sort of problems as one another.

New Years' Sharena: Alright! Come on, Alfonses! Let's hop to it!

Bunny Alfonse: ... Please don't.

 

Edit:

Oh man I keep forgetting to note this. So, remember how in Book 3, King Gustav Askr was telling Alfonse how important it was the he live? That was really the one thing he asked of Alfonse: that he survive, for the future of Askr. And then, well... Lif (who is dead older Alfonse) happened, and now Alfador happened (who kind of erased Alfonse from existence.) Poor Gustav. He only wanted 1 thing. Alfonse had 1 job: live. He just can't seem to nail it.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Mercakete

[Sentinel07]

You know, Sharena was conspicuously absent this chapter. Kind of strange considering the revelation that her brother is gone.

Of course, they still haven't fully resolved the changling subplot. Last they left it, Sharena was left unsure either way.

[Tybrosion]

All I can say about this book at this point is that I'm going to be severely disappointed when it isn't revealed at the end that this entire book was just a coked-up fever dream and that the dream faeries / elves and their realm never actually existed.

[kradeelav]

45 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

All I can say about this book at this point is that I'm going to be severely disappointed when it isn't revealed at the end that this entire book was just a coked-up fever dream and that the dream faeries / elves and their realm never actually existed.

yeahh, same. I quite liked the idea of the Summoner being a self-insert rather than yet another OC we have no reason to care about, and while I am extremely into the Shareena subplot, this latest twist left a bad taste in my mouth unless if it wasn't "true" to begin with at all.

[vikingsfan92]

Yet more candidate for Sharena's doppleganger dealt with unless the twins have a sister doesn't seem like its Peony and Triandra.  Now I am kind of wondering if they are going for the big gun and making Sharena's dupe Freyja and Freyr being Alphonse's unmentioned counterpart since Alphonse isn't actually here.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

All I can say about this book at this point is that I'm going to be severely disappointed when it isn't revealed at the end that this entire book was just a coked-up fever dream and that the dream faeries / elves and their realm never actually existed.

Dreams are phenomena in the human brain caused by biophysical conditions, which occur through the flow of energy and atoms in the form of organic compounds.

Atoms are made of matter, energy is an alternative form of matter. All matter is information. Information cannot be destroyed.

Ergo, Book 5 will see every dead OC character, be they a purely a dream or not, resurrected through the stringing together of their data which has since their deaths been scattered throughout the multiverse. The Norse realm of Cyberpunkgard confirmed. 

[Tybrosion]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ergo, Book 5 will see every dead OC character, be they a purely a dream or not, resurrected through the stringing together of their data which has since their deaths been scattered throughout the multiverse. The Norse realm of Cyberpunkgard confirmed. 

And people thought that IS jumped the shark with Book III and its theme song.

[Sentinel07]

In any case, I would overall rank the chapter a 9 out of 10.

I'd love to go higher, but still gotta deduct a point for kind of throwing Peony and Triandra's relationship under the bus a little. Really don't get why that wasn't elaborated on. You'd think Peony's allies would be surprised to learn they were actually related.

[Mysterique Sign]

There are 9 realms in Norse Mythology. If we assume Askr and Embla represent Midgard, than we've been to 5 or 6 (Midgard, Niflheim, Muspellheim, Helheim and Alfheim (possibly also Svartalfheim if they're going with Dark Elf meaning instead of the Dwarf meaning)). That leaves Jotunnheim, Vanaheim and Asgard. I'm not sure what they could do with the realm of giants, although the exact meaning of Jötunn is kinda flexible. And they'd probably do Asgard and Vanaheim at the same time. So maybe two more books left? 

Or a surprise twist could be that the World of Steel is Midgard and we end there

[Interdimensional Observer]

12 minutes ago, Mysterique Sign said:

That leaves Jotunnheim, Vanaheim and Asgard. I'm not sure what they could do with the realm of giants, although the exact meaning of Jötunn is kinda flexible.

Isn't Loki supposed to lead the Jotunn at Ragnarok? Theres something.

Hopefully any OC "giants" wouldn't be overly sexy or cute.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Sentinel07]

13 minutes ago, Mysterique Sign said:

There are 9 realms in Norse Mythology. If we assume Askr and Embla represent Midgard, than we've been to 5 or 6 (Midgard, Niflheim, Muspellheim, Helheim and Alfheim (possibly also Svartalfheim if they're going with Dark Elf meaning instead of the Dwarf meaning)). That leaves Jotunnheim, Vanaheim and Asgard. I'm not sure what they could do with the realm of giants, although the exact meaning of Jötunn is kinda flexible. And they'd probably do Asgard and Vanaheim at the same time. So maybe two more books left? 

Or a surprise twist could be that the World of Steel is Midgard and we end there

Yeah, we've used up Svartalfheim. After doing a little research, I discovered that Dökkálfheimr is called "Svartalf" in the Japanese version. 

And Askr and Embla are a part of Midgard as stated by Triandra and Plumeria. We can perhaps assume the World of Steel is also a part of it.

[Medeus]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Isn't Loki supposed to lead the Jotunn at Ragnarok? Theres something.

Hopefully any OC "giants" wouldn't be overly sexy or cute.

The leader of the Jotunn at the battle is Hrymr, but Loki does fight alongside them with his army of 'Hel's own' so both are united regardless. If Ragnarok has a role in the story, I can easily see Loki pulling a similar stunt and bring in a surprise army to fight both Asgard and Askr/Embla. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Medeus

[Mercakete]

1 hour ago, Medeus said:

The leader of the Jotunn at the battle is Hrymr, but Loki does fight alongside them with his army of 'Hel's own' so both are united regardless. If Ragnarok has a role in the story, I can easily see Loki pulling a similar stunt and bring in a surprise army to fight both Asgard and Askr/Embla. 

As I said, I think that (especially since no JRPG is every okay with leaving friends with a bad fate, even if rightfully earned) Loki is going to open the way to the realm of the gods (Asgard, I guess) to the Order of Heroes. That is, she allows the Order to cause ragnarok, destroying the gods, saving Alfonse, and beginning the new cycle. That sounds very, very endgame-ish to me, though, and we haven't gone to the real of the giants yet (unless that's the World of Steel since the buildings are giant and it's clear that Kiran's world isn't the same as Askr/Embla's.)

Yep. I think we're the ones who destroy the worlds. Because, you know, friendship. And the player must always win. And IS wants Loki to be a frienemy, based on how they portray her. So, we'll probably have Alfador be the next (and final) big boss with Thorr as his main subordinate. Loki may or may not be a boss since she likes playing both sides. So, we kill the godfather (ha) and rescue Alfonse, who then becomes the king of Askr FE-postgame-narrative-style, and we maybe get King Alfonse as an alt in the next book because this app is working well for IS and the players enjoy it. So, new arc, possibly involving a new pantheon since ragnarok is the end of the previous one and the beginning of a new one. Or, we focus more on Bruno's family's issues and take on a demon king and do stuff involving the founding dragons (possibly revisiting Nifl and Muspell, resolving conflicts between the countries and their dragons, then saving Askr (dragon) from Embla (dragon) and driving Embla back to...well, Embla. Then we smite Embla (dragon) and thus remove the curse from Bruno and Veronica. Friendship conquers all yet again.)