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Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread


DefyingFates
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So, new chapter time.

I know a lot of people were theorizing that Freyr and Peony might have had some ulterior motive given the last chapter but it seems that they were genuine and not pulling a fast one. We do get Freyja's unofficial debut though, and she's...the obsessive type. Go figure.

Sharena remembering being in the dream world is no surprise, but Peony saying Sharena was never one of the children she played with is curious.

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When Peony was released one of her quotes was: "Why do I want to cry when someone says the word sister?".

After reading this chapter and seeing that King Freyr and Lady Freyja are sibilings with opposite goals and purposes, could Peony and Triandra be sisters too? One brings good dreams and the other one nightmares. And this chapter remarked that they're opposites. Maybe some light elves have a sibiling dark elf who is his/her opposite.

Maybe when Lady Freyja decided to bring bad dreams, she transformed some light elves into dark elves and erased their memories so that they would serve her. And King Freyr could have erased Peony's memories so that she wouldn't suffer for the loss of her sister...

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4 hours ago, Yukiko said:

When Peony was released one of her quotes was: "Why do I want to cry when someone says the word sister?".

After reading this chapter and seeing that King Freyr and Lady Freyja are sibilings with opposite goals and purposes, could Peony and Triandra be sisters too? One brings good dreams and the other one nightmares. And this chapter remarked that they're opposites. Maybe some light elves have a sibiling dark elf who is his/her opposite.

Maybe when Lady Freyja decided to bring bad dreams, she transformed some light elves into dark elves and erased their memories so that they would serve her. And King Freyr could have erased Peony's memories so that she wouldn't suffer for the loss of her sister...

Honestly, that seems the case to me however, I thought that perhaps Plumeria was playing with Sharena as she states quite a lot how she hates the dark elfs and her job and we can safely say that Sharena too would not like being in her position. And it also gives her a purpose in the story as Peony Triandra could have the sister plot. 

Also why didn't Freya appear and they only showed dialogue of her? And is her gimmick being obsessive over her brother? 

Edited by SuperNova125
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Aww heeeeeck shoot. Looks like this is darker than it looked at first glance. I wonder if Peony wasn't always a fairy. In Part 4, the voice talks about playing "explorers" and about drinking a special elixer that makes you a hero of the land of dreams, but means you can never leave. This sounds a LOT like the myth about eating fairy food, which traps you in the fairy realm and allows a fairy to take your place in your own world. What if Peony was actually Alfonse's sister and Sharena was the Sweet Dream before her, then took her place when she drank the elixir? That would explain why in the main artwork, it shows Sharena and Peony in a sowrd of whirling, place-changing orientation. So, maybe Sharena's a changeling? It would also explain why she has so many memories if playing with a lot of girls in the land of dreams.

Also, my guess to Part 3's riddle is "eyelids." Maybe it's too literal an answer, though. Maybe it's Peony, since she appears only in dreams?

Okay, so just finished the chapter and HECK Freyja has issues. She wants all of her brother's attention and affection. Clingy much? It makes sense, but yeesh. No wonder she's the nightmare queen. I wonder what her design will be like... Also, sucks that everyone will be waking up to a nightmare. I hate it when that happens. You know, that fake-out, false-waking sleep? Ugh...

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^
Actually, now that you bring up the theory of Peony being Alfonse's sister, I was reminded of this thing:

https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Sharena_(Cipher)

In one of her Cipher cards, her title is apparently "elder princess of Askr". She's also the only princess of Askr (that we know of). While I don't know enough about Japanese sibling naming conventions to know whether it's be normal to call an only prince/ss an "elder prince/ss", it's interesting to note that Alfonse is not called "elder prince of Askr" in any of his cards. Sharena also had one card calling her "princess of Askr" so apparently the other card deliberately chose to call her the "eldest" princess of Askr?

Who knows how canon Cipher is so this could all be a coincidence, but it's enough to make you wonder.

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13 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

^
Actually, now that you bring up the theory of Peony being Alfonse's sister, I was reminded of this thing:

https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Sharena_(Cipher)

In one of her Cipher cards, her title is apparently "elder princess of Askr". She's also the only princess of Askr (that we know of). While I don't know enough about Japanese sibling naming conventions to know whether it's be normal to call an only prince/ss an "elder prince/ss", it's interesting to note that Alfonse is not called "elder prince of Askr" in any of his cards. Sharena also had one card calling her "princess of Askr" so apparently the other card deliberately chose to call her the "eldest" princess of Askr?

Who knows how canon Cipher is so this could all be a coincidence, but it's enough to make you wonder.

That was actually a theory I had a long time ago since I caught on to that as well. Though, I ended up discarding the idea.

Primarily because Hrid keeps calling himself the "eldest prince of Nifl" despite the fact that he's the ONLY prince.

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40 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

That was actually a theory I had a long time ago since I caught on to that as well. Though, I ended up discarding the idea.

Primarily because Hrid keeps calling himself the "eldest prince of Nifl" despite the fact that he's the ONLY prince.

Yeah, I think I noticed Hrid saying that too and it is a tad weird. It's kind of weird how it's on Sharena's title though, it seems to be a very deliberate choice. But I can also accept that it's just the quirks of Japanese sibling ordering conventions.

Edited by Sunwoo
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57 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

In one of her Cipher cards, her title is apparently "elder princess of Askr". She's also the only princess of Askr (that we know of). While I don't know enough about Japanese sibling naming conventions to know whether it's be normal to call an only prince/ss an "elder prince/ss", it's interesting to note that Alfonse is not called "elder prince of Askr" in any of his cards. Sharena also had one card calling her "princess of Askr" so apparently the other card deliberately chose to call her the "eldest" princess of Askr?

I think it is just translated weird. Her Japanese epithet for that card is "Askr's First Princess." "Elder" seems like a weird translation of "First" in my opinion.

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10 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

But I can also accept that it's just the quirks of Japanese sibling ordering conventions.

Yeah, from what I read from a professional translator, Japanese doesn't have a good way of just saying "brother" or "sister", everything has to have a hierarchal reference in it. Makes it a bit tricky when translating into Japanese a set of siblings whose age-relations are left unstated.

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On 2/17/2020 at 9:33 AM, Yukiko said:

Maybe when Lady Freyja decided to bring bad dreams, she transformed some light elves into dark elves and erased their memories so that they would serve her. And King Freyr could have erased Peony's memories so that she wouldn't suffer for the loss of her sister...

Makes sense.

Also, one of Plumeria's quotes is "...S-so dark... Someone... please... Help me...", which could be a indication that Frayja is controlling the dark fairies by using dark magic.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So Surtr seems to make his return and in the latest trailer we briefly see Helbindi too. 

Its so weird that this is the moment they appeared. Surtr and co have no reason to show up in dreamland while having all the reason in the world to show up in the land of the dead. Surtr was even teased to go do just that but then the plot suddenly forgot about it. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So Surtr seems to make his return and in the latest trailer we briefly see Helbindi too. 

Its so weird that this is the moment they appeared. Surtr and co have no reason to show up in dreamland while having all the reason in the world to show up in the land of the dead. Surtr was even teased to go do just that but then the plot suddenly forgot about it. 

That's true. I was kinda expecting Surtr, Laegjarn, and maybe even Gunnthrá in Book 3, but nope. So in book 4, they are like illusions, nightmares... Well, Veronica and Bruno appeared in Chapter 1 as well.

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On 2/17/2020 at 1:17 AM, trainer_derp said:

Props to IS. I think this is first chapter past the first book where every battle has a story related section either before or after it.

Yep! They were really small moments, but I loved them! I hope this keeps up for the rest of Book 4 and beyond!

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13 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Yep! They were really small moments, but I loved them! I hope this keeps up for the rest of Book 4 and beyond!

It better, considering 13 chapters really is not enough for the volume of story they seem to be going for. If they want to stay at 13, they need to pack more into them.

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So, this was pretty much "mindtrip the chapter". I think I barely understood most of it and just went along. 😄

Although, while Sharena is still not getting much character development, it was nice to see her and Alfonse's sibling bond carry the chapter. It's still an improvement more or less even if she's still playing second fiddle.

Aside from that, not much else to say. Pretty straightforward stuff. They're back with Peony and we're headed to Freyja's world. Hoping we see her in the next chapter.

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The theme of nightmares invading Askr seems to fit the new banner. 

Lysithea obviously haunts the dreams of the Death Knight and due to Bernie and Ferdinant von Aegir being annoying to deal with they probably come from Edelgard's nightmares. 

But what twisted mind would ever have a nightmare about sweet little Annette?

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Someone on Reddit mentioned that during the story chapter it was obvious that if the roles were reversed (Sharena remembering and Alfonse forgetting) that Alfonse wouldn't have taken Sharena seriously. The idea sounds believable, but did anyone here get that sort of impression?

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1 hour ago, trainer_derp said:

Someone on Reddit mentioned that during the story chapter it was obvious that if the roles were reversed (Sharena remembering and Alfonse forgetting) that Alfonse wouldn't have taken Sharena seriously. The idea sounds believable, but did anyone here get that sort of impression?

I hadn't thought about it, but it sounds accurate. Alfonse wasn't very receptive to Sharena's fairy talk early on, iirc.

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On 3/6/2020 at 2:56 PM, trainer_derp said:

Someone on Reddit mentioned that during the story chapter it was obvious that if the roles were reversed (Sharena remembering and Alfonse forgetting) that Alfonse wouldn't have taken Sharena seriously. The idea sounds believable, but did anyone here get that sort of impression?

Actually, I got a bit more out of it than that. Sharena had memories she shouldn't have had in dreamland, and Alfonse had memories he shouldn't have had in reality. Maybe they're sort of balancing each other out? Alfonse is a very practically- and logically-minded person, so it makes sense that nightmares wouldn't affect him as much. Likewise, Sharena's very willing to believe in the fantastic, so it makes sense that she would retain memories -- even from childhood -- of being in dreamland.

I think it's pretty neat that Alfonse was somehow able to pull from his experience in dreamland and apply it to the nightmare situation, too. It was fun to follow his logic. Man, that was some serious stuff, though: when Sharena and Anna talked about Kiran like he was long-dead. Too bad that bit was over so soon, but it does make me wonder if Kiran had somehow been to Askr sometime in the past and doesn't remember it. I also wonder why he's still missing. Maybe he's actually captured this time or something? I like Alfonse's theory that his fear of losing Kiran has actually led to the loss of Kiran via nightmare (this time. Before, I still stand by the thought that Kiran maybe just didn't fall asleep when the trio did.) Well, looks like the travel has a definite direction, now. We're going to nightmareland to fight Freyja and free her poor brother! Also, the opening movie may have just happened, with the trio and Peony having adventures in dreamland, and then waking up all over again in a dream. I hate those: you wake up and you're actually still dreaming and then you wake up again. That and that falling sensation right before you wake up sometimes.

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3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I also wonder why he's still missing. Maybe he's actually captured this time or something?

If I was Kiran, I would let Plumeria capture me willingly in exchange for some plot... information. I am sure the Askr Trio can handle my temporary absence, and when it is my time to appear, I will be able to save the Askr Trio armed with Plumeria's plot armor and have the information to defeat the big bad evil girl.

Edited by XRay
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On 3/6/2020 at 10:56 PM, trainer_derp said:

Someone on Reddit mentioned that during the story chapter it was obvious that if the roles were reversed (Sharena remembering and Alfonse forgetting) that Alfonse wouldn't have taken Sharena seriously. The idea sounds believable, but did anyone here get that sort of impression?

Yeah, I was wondering why the cynic remembered the dream world and not the idealistic, but this would explain it.

And like @Mercakete said, it was pretty weird hearing everyone talk about us as if we were long dead. Sharena's private moment with Alfonse especially. I know being super-friendly and childish is "her thing," but her feeling bad about not remembering us got me right in the feels...

The stuff with Peony was really sweet too. She's so eager to grant a favour and her little song to dispell the nightmare is so goofy, I love it xD

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34 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

The stuff with Peony was really sweet too. She's so eager to grant a favour and her little song to dispell the nightmare is so goofy, I love it xD

This actually concerned me. Maybe it's just one facet of general fairy lore, but the fae are known to LOVE making deals they can twist around. It's kind of like a game for them, where the object is to see how badly they can mess up the other party while getting something out of it themselves. This is why, like with making wishes, you need to make sure to cover all loopholes and be very careful with your wording. Also, make sure the fairy in question says the words "I promise." In some lore, they can't break promises if it's specifically a promise.

So, naturally, Peony being all "Oooo a favor?!" had me worried. After all, if someone does a favor for you, you're in their debt. The fae love having people in their debt and then cashing in for some pretty terrible stuff.

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