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Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread

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10 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Speaking of another issue brought by Plumeria's inclusion. For how much we rant about how perverted and lewd this game is, in reality it always stops itself from going too far.

The poses can get suggestive, but never to the point of actually resembling sexual acts, and the outfits (even the bath towels) always cover the important bits well.

The dialogue, assuming you are really thick-headed or an actual child, isn't that sexual. Camilla just likes baths guys, what's wrong with taking baths? And what's wrong if she likes to show affection to her siblings? Lots of people do. The line about bunnies isn't explicit at all. It's not Loki's fault if you have a dirty mind and inmediatly think about reproduction.

But Plumeria... she is straight up a succubus in-universe. There's no misunderstanding it, she's here to remind us that people get horny even in the Fire Emblem universe. How often does that happen? I remember Silvia flashing her breasts and Narcian wanting to "have fun" with Clarine, but I don't think we have ever got to this level of bluntness before.

Should we start worrying?

Well, there were two years between Camilla and Loki's introductions, then two more years between Loki and Plumeria, so I think we can expect the next one to show up in Book 6...

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4 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Well, there were two years between Camilla and Loki's introductions, then two more years between Loki and Plumeria, so I think we can expect the next one to show up in Book 6...

In book 6 we will have a character that straight up drops the sex word. You can't stop them.

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30 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Speaking of another issue brought by Plumeria's inclusion. For how much we rant about how perverted and lewd this game is, in reality it always stops itself from going too far.

The poses can get suggestive, but never to the point of actually resembling sexual acts, and the outfits (even the bath towels) always cover the important bits well.

The dialogue, assuming you are really thick-headed or an actual child, isn't that sexual. Camilla just likes baths guys, what's wrong with taking baths? And what's wrong if she likes to show affection to her siblings? Lots of people do. The line about bunnies isn't explicit at all. It's not Loki's fault if you have a dirty mind and inmediatly think about reproduction.

But Plumeria... she is straight up a succubus in-universe. There's no misunderstanding it, she's here to remind us that people get horny even in the Fire Emblem universe. How often does that happen? I remember Silvia flashing her breasts and Narcian wanting to "have fun" with Clarine, but I don't think we have ever got to this level of bluntness before.

Should we start worrying?

I'm really wondering how "Well there is one thing bunnies are famous for... besides eating carrots." can be taken any other way but hey whatever. The developers knew what they were doing with that one.

I don't think there is anything wrong with including a succubus in the game. They are an interesting part of mythology that I like is being included. I'd say we start worrying after we see concrete evidence that IS is dropping the pants completely.

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2 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Can't wait for summer this year. Ursula was almost completely naked last year.

Yeah, that one still surprises me. I bet IS is still kicking themselves that they didn't have the guts to go for that when they released Summer Camilla.

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3 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

"Haha, players be horny. They spend a lot of orbs to get their Summer Lyn, Hot Spring Ryoma and Spring Loki. You perverts, we know the reason why LOL!" - IS, probably.

Nitpick: You can't actually use orbs to get Spring Loki.

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8 minutes ago, Othin said:

Nitpick: You can't actually use orbs to get Spring Loki.

Making her and HS!Camilla TT+ rewards was to get players to whale for high ranks in AR, aka to get Heroic Grails.

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4 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Speaking of another issue brought by Plumeria's inclusion. For how much we rant about how perverted and lewd this game is, in reality it always stops itself from going too far.

...

Should we start worrying?

I like the social limits the developers are pushing, even if it is just verbally or in a joking way. I am personally sick and tired of the prudishness parts of society is pushing on to people like me, and kink shaming people for simply liking big boobs or whatever fetish is just plain mean. I do not go around telling people who want a partner that is financially stable as gold diggers, and people who only wish to date others with the same political views as narrow minded.

If the topic of human reproduction comes up, it comes up. I do not see the need to skirt around the topic like its the plague or bash on sexuality because it sells. Big boobs are no big deal, it is no different from liking muscles, beards, dark skin, or blonde hair. If big boobs or lots of skin show up, there is no need to go "ew" every time, or calling fans who are into incest disgusting whenever Ephraim and Eirika comes up.

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8 minutes ago, XRay said:

I like the social limits the developers are pushing, even if it is just verbally or in a joking way. I am personally sick and tired of the prudishness parts of society is pushing on to people like me, and kink shaming people for simply liking big boobs or whatever fetish is just plain mean. I do not go around telling people who want a partner that is financially stable as gold diggers, and people who only wish to date others with the same political views as narrow minded.

If the topic of human reproduction comes up, it comes up. I do not see the need to skirt around the topic like its the plague or bash on sexuality because it sells. Big boobs are no big deal, it is no different from liking muscles, beards, dark skin, or blonde hair. If big boobs or lots of skin show up, there is no need to go "ew" every time, or calling fans who are into incest disgusting whenever Ephraim and Eirika comes up.

I agree. Personally, I couldn't be happier that feh keeps getting hornier with each update. It's a spin-off gacha, fan service is kind of the point. Like if I wanted Serious and dramatic in fire emblem, I'll go play an actual fire emblem game. My only concern is how much of this in your face fanservice will bleed into the main series. I don't mind fanservice just that IS doesn't seem to know how to balance silly fanservice with deep nuanced and dramatic story telling in a way that doesn't feel jarring and intrusive(Which is something I greatly respect about the fate franchise). They're getting better at it but they still have much to learn. 

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14 minutes ago, XRay said:

I like the social limits the developers are pushing, even if it is just verbally or in a joking way. I am personally sick and tired of the prudishness parts of society is pushing on to people like me, and kink shaming people for simply liking big boobs or whatever fetish is just plain mean. I do not go around telling people who want a partner that is financially stable as gold diggers, and people who only wish to date others with the same political views as narrow minded.

If the topic of human reproduction comes up, it comes up. I do not see the need to skirt around the topic like its the plague or bash on sexuality because it sells. Big boobs are no big deal, it is no different from liking muscles, beards, dark skin, or blonde hair. If big boobs or lots of skin show up, there is no need to go "ew" every time, or calling fans who are into incest disgusting whenever Ephraim and Eirika comes up.

While I'm sure some people are that prudish, the problem for me is when a character exists solely for fanservice - or is only popular because of it, which is what I'm worried will happen here with the more one-dimensional fans. Bayonetta's probably the best example of someone with a fanservice-heavy design while still having an actual character.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

My only concern is how much of this in your face fanservice will bleed into the main series.

Also this. This is how Fates happened.

Edited by DefyingFates

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3 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Also this. This is how Fates happened.

Also Tharja. Fates is a prime example of what I mean when I say "IS doesn't seem to know how to balance silly fanservice with deep nuanced and dramatic story telling in a way that doesn't feel jarring and intrusive" because the fanservice in that game does not feel well integrated into the story or characters at all. A lot of the time the fan service just feels tacked on and out of place and makes no sense(Camilla being the prime example of this). It works with some characters(like Charlotte, Felicia, and Peri) but for others it's just why like the aforementioned Camilla, Elise, Midori, and Rhajat/Tharja.

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1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

Also Tharja. Fates is a prime example of what I mean when I say "IS doesn't seem to know how to balance silly fanservice with deep nuanced and dramatic story telling in a way that doesn't feel jarring and intrusive" because the fanservice in that game does not feel well integrated into the story or characters at all. A lot of the time the fan service just feels tacked on and out of place and makes no sense(Camilla being the prime example of this). It works with some characters(like Charlotte, Felicia, and Peri) but for others it's just why like the aforementioned Camilla, Elise, Midori, and Rhajat/Tharja.

Tharja definitely counts (as does Aversa in my eyes), but I highlighted Fates because that's when FE ran rampant with the anime tropes and fanservice.

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11 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

While I'm sure some people are that prudish, the problem for me is when a character exists solely for fanservice - or is only popular because of it, which is what I'm worried will happen here with the more one-dimensional fans. Bayonetta's probably the best example of someone with a fanservice-heavy design while still having an actual character.

I guess I am one of those fans. I appreciate one dimensional characters. Not every character has to be a complex human being with a backstory like Edelgard. Anna is probably my favorite character, and I love her simply because she is an ethically dubious businesswoman.

42 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

My only concern is how much of this in your face fanservice will bleed into the main series.

14 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Fates is a prime example of what I mean when I say "IS doesn't seem to know how to balance silly fanservice with deep nuanced and dramatic story telling in a way that doesn't feel jarring and intrusive" because the fanservice in that game does not feel well integrated into the story or characters at all. A lot of the time the fan service just feels tacked on and out of place and makes no sense(Camilla being the prime example of this). It works with some characters(like Charlotte, Felicia, and Peri) but for others it's just why like the aforementioned Camilla, Elise, Midori, and Rhajat/Tharja.

I guess I am never bothered by fan service, so I do not really mind if they put more of it into the main series.

I think the fan service is fine in Fates. Camilla is the doting intimate older sister that contrasts with Hinoka who is beat-the-crap-out-of-your-bullies type. Elise is no more fan service than Sakura in my opinion; I prefer a more hyperactive cuddly sibling than a super shy reserved sibling.

I do not see how Midori is considered fan service.

I can see the appeal in Tharja. It feels kind of good to know that you are the object of obsession of another person.

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5 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess I am never bothered by fan service, so I do not really mind if they put more of it into the main series.

I think the fan service is fine in Fates. Camilla is the doting intimate older sister that contrasts with Hinoka who is beat-the-crap-out-of-your-bullies type. Elise is no more fan service than Sakura in my opinion; I prefer a more hyperactive cuddly sibling than a super shy reserved sibling.

I do not see how Midori is considered fan service.

I can see the appeal in Tharja. It feels kind of good to know that you are the object of obsession of another person.

My problem isn't with the fanservice necessarily because I don't mind fanservice all that much either. It's just that I don't like it when it comes at the cost of actually good writing. Again take Camilla, She's an incredibly interesting character what with her dark past and severe abandonment issues and to the game's credit, it is explored decently well in her supports. Then there's her supports with Corrin which is just fetish pandering and doesn't at all fit with the rest of her character. Camilla is definitely better handled than Tharja but it just feels really jarring and out of place. Tharja is worse even because her Robin supports are incredibly inconsistent with everything else we know about her. Her Robin make no sense within the context of what's already been established about her character so it's really only there for fetish pandering and that's my problem with it. The fanservicy and pandery elements of her character don't feel like they belong and are a natural extension of her character but rather something that was randomly tacked onto her because she's hot and no other reason.

In regards to Midori and Elise, I don't like the fact that you can S-support them at all. You shouldn't because 1. they're both literal children and 2. Elise is your god damn sister. I don't care if there is no blood relation. That is your sister. It's Loli pandering essentially which I don't mind usually but in a story like this it just doesn't belong. Like I won't complain about this sort of shit in something like Eromanga sensei because that's the literal point of the show but here. No, it doesn't belong. Do it all you want in heroes but not in a game about how familial ties breeds trust between people.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

I like the social limits the developers are pushing, even if it is just verbally or in a joking way. I am personally sick and tired of the prudishness parts of society is pushing on to people like me, and kink shaming people for simply liking big boobs or whatever fetish is just plain mean. I do not go around telling people who want a partner that is financially stable as gold diggers, and people who only wish to date others with the same political views as narrow minded.

If the topic of human reproduction comes up, it comes up. I do not see the need to skirt around the topic like its the plague or bash on sexuality because it sells. Big boobs are no big deal, it is no different from liking muscles, beards, dark skin, or blonde hair. If big boobs or lots of skin show up, there is no need to go "ew" every time, or calling fans who are into incest disgusting whenever Ephraim and Eirika comes up.

Preach it. To be honest I'm also completely fine with normalizing sex a bit more, but I would like if it was not treated as something silly, only to make the main character blush like a bad harem anime cliche. I can't believe the Fire Emblem series can have children sacrificed to an evil god, but it can't have people talking about sex, or rape if they are bad guys (minus Narcian, the only almost rapist I can think on the top of my head), in a serious way.

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Tharja definitely counts (as does Aversa in my eyes), but I highlighted Fates because that's when FE ran rampant with the anime tropes and fanservice.

Okay, no I'm gonna have to call bullsh*t here. Aversa isn't a case of unjustified fanservice. She is playing the evil seductress trope in the story. You can dislike the trope, but it's not like she is being sexual for no reason (and speaking of the few cases of sexual stuff in Fire Emblem. If I remember it right there is a conversation somewhere that suggests she might have seduced Gangrel to get her position or something).

Tharja on the other hand, I agree. There is no reason for her to dress like that, since she prefers to be ignored and dressing like that will only get her more attention that she is comfortable with.

Edited by GrandeRampel

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I I don't mind fanservice just that IS doesn't seem to know how to balance silly fanservice with deep nuanced and dramatic story telling in a way that doesn't feel jarring and intrusive(Which is something I greatly respect about the fate franchise). 

The fate franchise is like, the worst offender of them all.

-VN sex scenes so badly written that many people consider the censoring in Realta Nua an overall improvement.

-Hell the whole "mana charging" meme.

-the whole extra subfranchise(and the roman singularity) being Hijacked by Nero

-the abuse of genderbends, saberfaces and waifu cliches, when the historical figure could have been awesome if played straight. 

I am enought of a fate fanboy to do fanservants, but i can admit that when it comes to sex and fancervice, you can bet your money that is where Nasu is going to screw up.

 

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55 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess I am never bothered by fan service, so I do not really mind if they put more of it into the main series.

I think the fan service is fine in Fates. Camilla is the doting intimate older sister that contrasts with Hinoka who is beat-the-crap-out-of-your-bullies type. Elise is no more fan service than Sakura in my opinion; I prefer a more hyperactive cuddly sibling than a super shy reserved sibling.

Same, but for me it has to make some kind of sense in the story.

In contrast to Hinoka being the tomboy type, Camilla being more volumptous make senses. But they ruined her character by making her the "big sister" type in anime for Corrin and her armor is way too revealing to be a practical armor.

At least Warriors did try to salvage her character but the damage was already done by this point.

I just hope Plumeria will have some kind of purpose in the story.

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8 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

How I wish you were right about that...

Oh right, silly me for expecting the internet to have any standards at all. I guess this is why we have Plumeria now.

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12 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

-VN sex scenes so badly written that many people consider the censoring in Realta Nua an overall improvement.

-Hell the whole "mana charging" meme.

If im not mistaken Nasu didnt write nor did he wanted to include explicit erotic scenes in the work. The only reason they did it being that it was supposedly going to boost the sales.

Realta Nua which is kind of the final "canon" version of the story doesnt even have the sex-mana-charging anymore.

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I just want to know when we will get Evil Green Fairy and Vengeful Red Fairy. 
Magic. Check. Dancers. Check. Fliers. Check, Check Check. 

 

to be honest with you, i never really notice the sexiness or whatever, or mind/care if they are wearing pants, because that's not what i am looking for. so i am only really aware of it when people are bringing it up. 

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I mean

I don't like sexual fan service at all and I really wish they'd tone back on it but I also realize that I'm not the target audience.

And yet, I can't help but wonder. "What does this even fucking add?" Like, most of the time, does the sexual fan service add anything other than making certain people very happy? It really doesn't. A lot of fanservice characters look very same-y and act very same-y. It's usually just there for the sake of pandering to certain people without really putting effort into making those characters deep at the same time.

FE is a game that has always had war as a background setting. Focusing too much on sexual fan service when you're trying to tell a story about war does a great disservice to the series in general. Which is why if we have to have it then I guess it's better in a gacha game than in the main series. But in all seriousness ... it doesn't add anything and it's not even equally put in between the sexes.

Furthermore, If FE developers want to put sexy, sultry, scantily clad women for dudes, then they should stop being cowards and give us an equal amount of fanservice for their female fans too and put in more scantily clad men.

There's also nothing wrong with being prudish as long as you're not imposing it on other people. Likewise, there's nothing wrong with being lewd as long as you're not stepping onto other people's boundaries.

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I suppose I'll throw my hat into the ring.

More often than not, I don't mind fanservice so long as a character has something to offer besides that. Let's take Camilla for example. I wouldn't mind the fact that they clearly sexualize her if she had more of a character arc. Problem is that she doesn't. There's clearly more attention given to her figure than there is to her backstory which is sadly underutilized. To me, she comes as something that's meant to pander to the Avatar rather than a character in her own right. Which is too bad because I think Camilla's overall story had a lot of potential.

As for Plumeria, I've pretty much excepted that Heroes' story is meant to be very simple so I've become a little desensitized to how it's done its characters.

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10 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Tharja on the other hand, I agree. There is no reason for her to dress like that, since she prefers to be ignored and dressing like that will only get her more attention that she is comfortable with.

She is from the desert though, and desert is hot. Additionally, while she does not like to attract attention, she should dress however she wants. Drawing attention be damned; physical comfort is first.

9 hours ago, Nym said:

Same, but for me it has to make some kind of sense in the story.

In contrast to Hinoka being the tomboy type, Camilla being more volumptous make senses. But they ruined her character by making her the "big sister" type in anime for Corrin and her armor is way too revealing to be a practical armor.

I see characters as they are. If they happen to be that way, they are just that way. I am not really sure how to explain it, but I do not think characters have to be a certain way to fit the story. Like, Camilla being a doting intimate sister does not stop her from fulfilling her duties as the princess of Nohr and she shows no hesitation in striking down Corrin; Corrin is not her only family, and she still cares for Elise and Leo. Like, her intimacy does not really make the story any better or worse in my opinion. If you remove her intimacy, the story is basically going to be the same.

Edited by XRay

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We can have both now and indeed Three Houses already does it to an extent. Technology has advanced enough so that a character can have multiple outfits. It'd make a hell of a lot more sense if Camilla had a practical fighting outfit and a fanservicey casual outfit in the floating castle.

 

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