Changes you wish to see in potential remakes

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And the people who want to get both perspectives in a single playthrough, as the game was originally designed, can do... what, exactly?

I don't think it's wrong to design the game around multiple playthroughs, it makes it's replay value much better, kinda like Tactics Ogre, really. Either way, you miss some things without NG+ anyways, like any conversation with Pelleas in part 4, etc.

[Acacia Sgt]

Indeed. You already miss out on stuff the first playthrough alone. Besides, who says that in a branching storyline they can't do the shifting perspective thing too? Stick with the DB; and you'd have 2-3 GM chapters. Just like how having the GM's as the main focus gives us 3 DB chapters.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

I don't think it's wrong to design the game around multiple playthroughs, it makes it's replay value much better, kinda like Tactics Ogre, really. Either way, you miss some things without NG+ anyways, like any conversation with Pelleas in part 4, etc.

I agree, it's not wrong to do branching paths, but it's not how RD was originally designed. It would be like Echoes saying "instead of switching between Alm and Celica's story, you pick one or the other". It changes the way the story is told in a way that I'm not sure a remake ought to.

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Indeed. You already miss out on stuff the first playthrough alone. Besides, who says that in a branching storyline they can't do the shifting perspective thing too? Stick with the DB; and you'd have 2-3 GM chapters. Just like how having the GM's as the main focus gives us 3 DB chapters.

This would be more acceptable, I suppose, than my original interpretation of your proposal. I still maintain that Part III being GM-heavy is not a bad thing, and wonder about what rewriting would be required to add more DB chapters (who, remember, join the war well after Ike and Co set out).

[Lightcosmo]

18 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I agree, it's not wrong to do branching paths, but it's not how RD was originally designed. It would be like Echoes saying "instead of switching between Alm and Celica's story, you pick one or the other". It changes the way the story is told in a way that I'm not sure a remake ought to.

I'm not saying you have to axe Ike from the story, just give the dawn brigade some more insight as to what happens with them by adding some maps for them.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This would be more acceptable, I suppose, than my original interpretation of your proposal. I still maintain that Part III being GM-heavy is not a bad thing, and wonder about what rewriting would be required to add more DB chapters (who, remember, join the war well after Ike and Co set out).

Well, it's a branching path. The rewriting it is needed. Not talking post time skip 3H level, nor Fates level. The core ideas can remain; but with enough rewriting to make it a presentable story. If people want their canon path, well, there's the canon path to choose if you so wish. If you like some deviation in the story so the DB remain the focus, there would be the branch path. 

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I agree, it's not wrong to do branching paths, but it's not how RD was originally designed. It would be like Echoes saying "instead of switching between Alm and Celica's story, you pick one or the other". It changes the way the story is told in a way that I'm not sure a remake ought to.

No, it'd be the opposite. It's adding a path rather than taking one out.

[Lightcosmo]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, it's a branching path. The rewriting it is needed. Not talking post time skip 3H level, nor Fates level. The core ideas can remain; but with enough rewriting to make it a presentable story. If people want their canon path, well, there's the canon path to choose if you so wish. If you like some deviation in the story so the DB remain the focus, there would be the branch path. 

No, it'd be the opposite. It's adding a path rather than taking one out.

I agree with this. It's not a bad thing to add in more gameplay as the DB either. 

[King Marth 64]

On 12/9/2019 at 12:25 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Problem is, as I see it, Thracia and Genealogy are radically different games that this likely won't happen (that's also why I think making them together is a terrible idea, but that's neither here nor there).

No, I totally think there is an another possible way that would get the Substitute Children takes place their counterparts like in the Thracia 776 remake. There is a possibility that they can appear when the player selects a new data in Thracia 776 remake through read the memory data from the Genealogy of the Holy War remake (if their mother died or didn't get married in the Player's play through data) similar to like how Radiant Dawn can read off from the Nintendo GameCube memory card from Path of Radiance that can unlock new stuff from a non-normal playthrough and even Fates can read the Awakening memory data to get more items in Fates.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd think an easier thing would be to just re-add the characters that were scrapped. Thracia was originally going to include a few of the substitutes, after all.

[Shadow Mir]

8 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

No, I totally think there is an another possible way that would get the Substitute Children takes place their counterparts like in the Thracia 776 remake. There is a possibility that they can appear when the player selects a new data in Thracia 776 remake through read the memory data from the Genealogy of the Holy War remake (if their mother died or didn't get married in the Player's play through data) similar to like how Radiant Dawn can read off from the Nintendo GameCube memory card from Path of Radiance that can unlock new stuff from a non-normal playthrough and even Fates can read the Awakening memory data to get more items in Fates.

Personally, I'd rather just re-add the scrapped characters, most of whom were the subs, to a Thracia remake.

[Deathcon]

I want Mark to be a more usable avatar, hold up avatar haters, but not playable. He can support characters, gain endings, have dialogue options like Byleth(though I wish he could be voice acted or have voice lines like Awakening and Fates), and of course do all the things normal things Mark can. But, he doesn't fight like in the original. This can both make him/her more of a character while still not making him OP or adding another unit to a already complete cast.

[Gregster101]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd think an easier thing would be to just re-add the characters that were scrapped. Thracia was originally going to include a few of the substitutes, after all.

 

55 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Personally, I'd rather just re-add the scrapped characters, most of whom were the subs, to a Thracia remake.

Maybe the subs, but probably not Arthur, cuz it makes more sense for him to be with Seliph's army than with Leif's army seeing as how he has a personal vendetta against Bloom

[henrymidfields]

There's actually one common thing from the plot that I liked in TMS#FE and Persona 3-4. I liked how the former three games gave due focus on the other characters and didn't have the protagonist necessarily hog the proverbial (and literal in the case of TMSFE) spotlight all the time. TMSFE had Itsuki help Tsubasa and others work on and break through their showbiz career. P3 had Minako working together with her dormmates, and particularly under Mitsuru's and Akihiko's guidance in exterminating the shadows. P4 not only had Yu discuss the mystery murders with his schoolmates, but out of this, had Yosuke and Naoto do all of the thinking of the logics behind it. It's clear that the plot only gets to where it needs to because of everyone working together, and we get to know and understand the teammates from their contribution to the main plot, in addition to their character arcs, side quests, and social links.

This may not be all that easy for new FE entries, but for remakes, I want the story further expanded upon, with a number of extra cut-scenes (and maybe even character-specific arcs) for a few non-Lord characters that you managed to keep alive. They should give their insight and perspectives on the main conflict and battles.

For some ideas in FE6:

Major characters:

• Marcus manages the discipline of the troops for Roy and discusses training, and he can also provide insight on the politics of Lycia and Bern from past experience. He can also talk about how some people betray the alliance. Out of cowardice? (Eric could be this.) Out of personal greed? (Wagner in Chapter 6.) Or out of a not-so-unfounded fear of retribution and punitive sanctions from the invaders? (It would be interesting to write a script, if Leygance was this, and he became desparate after the disaster at Araphen.)
• Lilina and Roy could discuss how different actual practice is compared to theory learnt from Cecilia, and how it can be daunting. They can also talk about leadership and how they can exercise it. Heck, even have Lilina do the devil's advocate instead of Merlinus at times.
• If Roy romances Thany or Sue, the former can listen to the stories of Ilia/Sacae from the latter, and also have them as the leading scouts into the nation. Alternately, Lilina can do that instead - out from her desire to learn more about the different nations - if Roy romances Lilina. If a save state from FE7 Echoes is detected, then extra conversations may happen depending on who is Roy's/Lilina's parents. Lyn!Roy or Lyn!Lilina will have an extended conversation with Sue, and Fiora!Roy and Florina!Lilina will ditto with Thany.
• If Douglas survives in Chapter 16, then Lalum thanks Roy for sparing her father. During/after Chapter 16x, she also lets on further stories about how she got to the Western Isles, and how she and Douglas shifted things behind the scenes against Aracard and Roartz.

Other characters:

• Cecilia, Perceval after Chapter 14, and Saul corresponds to the rebels and to Jodel and discusses how further political and tactical pressure can be applied against Aracard and Roartz.
• Saul and/or Dorothy can comment on why they are in the Western Isles with Roy at Ebracum in Chapter 11 - Jodel asked them to investigate the extent of Oro's corruption, and the whereabouts of the church's previously-sent auditors. And they can take statements from exploited citizens to be sent back to the Etrurian Vatican and appoint a replacement bishop to restore order and work out restitution.
• Dieck and Klein may have an extended conversation together if they already have support, and discusses the possibility of visiting the Rigel manor and the colosseum after Chapter 16 (or 16 Paralogue).
• Rutger reminisces his younger days in Chapter 20 of the Sacae route, and resolves to take down Bern to settle his accounts against them.
• Milady, Zeiss, Elen, and Guinevere convince Bernians to stand down and surrender, in Chapter 21. And for the 2-3 chapters leading up to it, they can do a "state of the union" discussion together.

In any case, I'd like to see a more significant/visible role of teamwork affecting the plot, with Echoes!Sigurd, Echoes!Roy and Echoes!Eirika/Ephraim, and Echoes!Ike/Micaiah actively having to rely on others, and backing off every now and then to give focus for the others' characters' arcs. And have 

Edited December 17, 2019 by henrymidfields

[Flere210]

Fire emblem is not persona. Even if you contain every character arc in a chapter this means 35 chapters on the game whit the fewest playable units. And while 2 characters may be sorted in a single chapter, others may require more than 1 so this even out. And then you have to Add the lord's story. Sure you don't have to give a moment to every character, but i can alreadt see the salt for certai characters getting an arc and certain others not.

On top of it, permadeath has to be accounted for and unless you make everyone only get injuries, wich would cheapen permadeath even more than fateswakening did, you can't have a map about them if they are dead. On paper you can write multiple version of the same character, but then you are looking at a script bloated whit content that can easily end up being rushed like Fates was. Or for the game to be released in 2030.

A game where only the lord is guaranteed to reach the end can't be about anyone but the lord by design, anything above making other characters into commenter would not work because the cast is too large compared to a JRPG or a CRPG based on the "choice and consequence" model. 

Having 30 characters as devoloped as your average Bioware(when Bioware was good) companion would be awesome, but i doubt there is a writer alive that can pull it off in a reasonable timeframe.

[Mylady]

Genealogy fixes: 

* Reclassing system: each first generation unit can reclass into an alternate class tree, and the children have access to the father and mother class like in Awakening/Fates. So all the inherited weapons can be usable once the kids reach the level to promote/reclass. 

 

* Skill system: Personal skills, and inheritable class skills. The rings are guaranteed effect of a skill or passable to a unit that can't have it. 

 

* Substitute children with their own identity so giving them interesting skills and unique alternate classes, like Wyvern Rider or Baron, for example, would give a reason to use them. The "original" kids would have the benefit of being customizable though. 

 

* Trading system characters can trade money and possibly weapons with the units they have high support. This is the most coherent way to fix this problem without excluding the paw market

 

* Churches and Castles are wandering places work mostly like the monsstery/dungeons: Exploring  in the seized castles/towns, marrying the units in the churches and interacting with the units and npcs to provide a nice worldbuilding. 

 

* Make possible to promote in every castle

 

* Rescue and boots introduced in the first chapers 

* Conversation and support system This is a given. It's the best way to control the marriages and flesh out the characters. Just don't be lazy like in Shadows of Valentia because this game have a marriage system like Awakening and so almost every possible pairing will need a conversation

 

 

 

 

[X-Naut]

Blazing Blade is pretty far back on the list for remake priority, but here's what I'd like to see regardless:

• Combine Eliwood and Hector mode. Splitting them does not do much good gameplay-wise, and I'd even argue it does more harm than good. Forced replaying to unlock everything leads to game fatigue and the added characters and chapters in Hector mode with no Eliwood mode equivalent leaves a sour taste in my mouth. You can easily make the two mutually exclusive Hector chapters mandatory paralogues a la FE8 5x and the writing is mostly the same, it won't be too hard to combine the two. The game's already about a shared coming-of-age journey as it is.
• Raise the level curve and lower the enemy density. Fighting level 1 enemies in Lyn mode gets boring, and it's disappointing to go back to level 1 babyland when you progress to Eli/Hec mode. The second point is self-explanatory.
• Likewise, don't withhold Heaven Seals for so long. Give us the first at Dragon's Gate and the second after Nabata. If the forced promotion is still there, just make it a freebie for if you didn't promote earlier.
• Change some of the requirements.
  • Lloyd/Linus is now a question of whether Eliwood or Hector is higher leveled.
  • Bartre merely needs to be promoted to fight Karla.
  • I don't know about Jerme and Kenneth. Maybe make them dual bosses in one chapter? Have Harken and Karel be mutually exclusive to chapters? idk
  • No more level requirement for Nils!
• Give non-morph generics luck. I don't mind it for morphs, it adds to the non-human aesthetic. It's just unfitting on everything else.
• Make the Hard difficulty harder in a good way. Basic resource removal, deployment slot starvation and HHM Cog of Destiny does not a good Hard Mode make.
• Weather only slows flying units.

Edited December 24, 2019 by X-Naut

[Alastor15243]

My biggest general thing I want to see:

The ablaze map music system.

From now on, I want remakes to take the player and enemy phase battle themes and turn those into minor boss themes, and then have all of the map themes have more intense, battle-y versions like Awakening and Fates.

I want to hear Scars of the Scouring (Ablaze).

I want to hear Light and Dark (Ablaze).

For the love of all that is good in this world, I want to hear Truth, Despair and Hope (Ablaze). I want the remake to add dramatic Latin chanting to the song's big climax, and I want it to explode like Divine Decree in the Ablaze version, and I want it to be so awesome that I instantly die.

Honestly, playing Echoes was a perfect demonstration of how much better the Ablaze system is. I absolutely hated whenever "What lies at the end" would be interrupted by "DANANA DANANA DAH DAH! DANANA DANANA DAH DAH! DAH DADAH DADAH DAH DAH! DAH DADAH DADAH DAH DAH!" Over and over and over again. And I really feel that most classic map themes would work great with ablaze version. I think the variety of types of map themes in Awakening and Fates have demonstrated that nearly any kind of map theme can accomodate an Ablaze version, so I really see no reason not to. And like I said, it doesn't even need to come at the cost of the player phase and enemy phase battle themes either. Just make them miniboss themes!

[X-Naut]

16 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

My biggest general thing I want to see:

The ablaze map music system.

From now on, I want remakes to take the player and enemy phase battle themes and turn those into minor boss themes, and then have all of the map themes have more intense, battle-y versions like Awakening and Fates.

I want to hear Scars of the Scouring (Ablaze).

I want to hear Light and Dark (Ablaze).

For the love of all that is good in this world, I want to hear Truth, Despair and Hope (Ablaze). I want the remake to add dramatic Latin chanting to the song's big climax, and I want it to explode like Divine Decree in the Ablaze version, and I want it to be so awesome that I instantly die.

Honestly, playing Echoes was a perfect demonstration of how much better the Ablaze system is. I absolutely hated whenever "What lies at the end" would be interrupted by "DANANA DANANA DAH DAH! DANANA DANANA DAH DAH! DAH DADAH DADAH DAH DAH! DAH DADAH DADAH DAH DAH!" Over and over and over again. And I really feel that most classic map themes would work great with ablaze version. I think the variety of types of map themes in Awakening and Fates have demonstrated that nearly any kind of map theme can accomodate an Ablaze version, so I really see no reason not to. And like I said, it doesn't even need to come at the cost of the player phase and enemy phase battle themes either. Just make them miniboss themes!

Agreed so long as they don't overdo it like Three Houses. I thought some themes were strong enough on their own and that having Ablaze versions detracted from them.

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, X-Naut said:

Agreed so long as they don't overdo it like Three Houses. I thought some themes were strong enough on their own and that having Ablaze versions detracted from them.

Oh yeah, I took serious issue with Three Houses' approach. More than half of the map themes were already intense enough for battle themes, and their attempts to make them even more intense bizarrely tended to make them almost universally worse. Tearing Through Heaven (Thunder) got rid of the damned melody, for one, and most notably the badass opera singing of God Shattering Star (Rain) was replaced with these shitty staccato horns in the Thunder version for reasons I can't even comprehend.

[Fire Brand]

20 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

My biggest general thing I want to see:

The ablaze map music system.

From now on, I want remakes to take the player and enemy phase battle themes and turn those into minor boss themes, and then have all of the map themes have more intense, battle-y versions like Awakening and Fates.

I want to hear Scars of the Scouring (Ablaze).

I want to hear Light and Dark (Ablaze).

For the love of all that is good in this world, I want to hear Truth, Despair and Hope (Ablaze). I want the remake to add dramatic Latin chanting to the song's big climax, and I want it to explode like Divine Decree in the Ablaze version, and I want it to be so awesome that I instantly die.

Honestly, playing Echoes was a perfect demonstration of how much better the Ablaze system is. I absolutely hated whenever "What lies at the end" would be interrupted by "DANANA DANANA DAH DAH! DANANA DANANA DAH DAH! DAH DADAH DADAH DAH DAH! DAH DADAH DADAH DAH DAH!" Over and over and over again. And I really feel that most classic map themes would work great with ablaze version. I think the variety of types of map themes in Awakening and Fates have demonstrated that nearly any kind of map theme can accomodate an Ablaze version, so I really see no reason not to. And like I said, it doesn't even need to come at the cost of the player phase and enemy phase battle themes either. Just make them miniboss themes!

I strongly disagree. I loved the old style battle themes and the return of them in echoes, whereas the ablaze and calm or whatever they call them I found really boring. Makes you have to listen to the same song for ages, and the different versions tend to make them go for dull and dreary and then weird intense but skipping half the melody. The old battle themes I found really catchy on the other hand. I thought RD handled battle themes the best, with different themes for each team changing during story events 

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Fire Brand said:

I strongly disagree. I loved the old style battle themes and the return of them in echoes, whereas the ablaze and calm or whatever they call them I found really boring. Makes you have to listen to the same song for ages, and the different versions tend to make them go for dull and dreary and then weird intense but skipping half the melody. The old battle themes I found really catchy on the other hand. I thought RD handled battle themes the best, with different themes for each team changing during story events 

Italics: How is the old map system any better about that? All the ablaze system changes is that the song doesn't get interrupted by the exact same 15 seconds of music every time you do an attack.

Bold: I don't really know what you're talking about. The only ones where the melody is cut out in the ablaze version are in Three Houses, and that one's map themes are if anything a bit too intense.

[Fire Brand]

15 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Italics: How is the old map system any better about that? All the ablaze system changes is that the song doesn't get interrupted by the exact same 15 seconds of music every time you do an attack.

Bold: I don't really know what you're talking about. The only ones where the melody is cut out in the ablaze version are in Three Houses, and that one's map themes are if anything a bit too intense.

The interruptions break up the monotony of the map.

And I was mainly talking about 3H there, in the others the instrumentation I found to be often weak. Imo there's no such thing as too intense, and FE music has never even come close to intense enough, though music is pretty subjective. Most FE map themes I find kinda dull, honestly. 

[Alastor15243]

21 minutes ago, Fire Brand said:

The interruptions break up the monotony of the map.

So you feel it helps break up the monotony, because you don't like the music and find it monotonous.

I'd honestly argue that's a pretty cynical way to design a game, choosing to stick with a system that minimizes the annoyance when the music is bad, rather than maximizing the enjoyment when the music is good.

[Fire Brand]

22 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So you feel it helps break up the monotony, because you don't like the music and find it monotonous.

I'd honestly argue that's a pretty cynical way to design a game, choosing to stick with a system that minimizes the annoyance when the music is bad, rather than maximizing the enjoyment when the music is good.

When you put it that way, I guess you're right. I feel Fire Emblem map themes still sound quite repetitive, basic and kinda... Lifeless. Don't get me wrong, I love some of the map themes like Bearer of Hope, Doorway to Destiny, etc. but I wouldn't listen to them outside the game like I would other video game music such as that found in games like Kid Icarus Uprising and even some other FE songs like the Radiant Dawn opening. The only exception which springs to mind is Twilight of the Gods. The rest range from decent for background music while playing to just dull and forgettable to instantly muting game audio annoying. Though as I said, music is a very subjective thing. 

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, Fire Brand said:

When you put it that way, I guess you're right. I feel Fire Emblem map themes still sound quite repetitive, basic and kinda... Lifeless. Don't get me wrong, I love some of the map themes like Bearer of Hope, Doorway to Destiny, etc. but I wouldn't listen to them outside the game like I would other video game music such as that found in games like Kid Icarus Uprising and even some other FE songs like the Radiant Dawn opening. The only exception which springs to mind is Twilight of the Gods. The rest range from decent for background music while playing to just dull and forgettable to instantly muting game audio annoying. Though as I said, music is a very subjective thing. 

Indeed it is. I'm a huge fan of most of the map themes in Awakening and Fates, and I'd love a lot of the Three Houses ones too if the Thunder versions weren't so sloppily executed. Dusk Falls is probably my favorite Fire Emblem theme of all time, and I adore it both in and out of battle. Meanwhile I don't enjoy any of the battle themes in the series, mostly because of how hard it is to enjoy something that's supposed to play for at most 10 seconds repeatedly hundreds of times throughout a playthrough.

[Fire Brand]

45 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Indeed it is. I'm a huge fan of most of the map themes in Awakening and Fates, and I'd love a lot of the Three Houses ones too if the Thunder versions weren't so sloppily executed. Dusk Falls is probably my favorite Fire Emblem theme of all time, and I adore it both in and out of battle. Meanwhile I don't enjoy any of the battle themes in the series, mostly because of how hard it is to enjoy something that's supposed to play for at most 10 seconds repeatedly hundreds of times throughout a playthrough.

I can understand that, I'd just prefer 10 seconds of catchy music over 3 minutes of dull or annoying music. They kinda have a retro charm to them, I find.