What non-sword FE character do you want in Smash?

[Flere210]

Fire emblem has like 15% of Mario Odyssey and is in the same Ballpark of Kirby Star allies, wich has no new reps since Brawl despite an obvious option that would not use a sword. 

Edith: @Etheus pokemon is way bigger than fire emblem has 900 characters or 1000+ if we consider that Red got in and other trainers such as Cynthia or N could. Why it does not have 15 characters? Also is neither Fire Emblem's nor Zelda's fault, is Sakurai's fault.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Flere210

[SoulWeaver]

On 12/16/2019 at 2:19 PM, Flere210 said:

Fire emblem has like 15% of Mario Odyssey and is in the same Ballpark of Kirby Star allies, wich has no new reps since Brawl despite an obvious option that would not use a sword. 

Edith: @Etheus pokemon is way bigger than fire emblem has 900 characters or 1000+ if we consider that Red got in and other trainers such as Cynthia or N could. Why it does not have 15 characters? Also is neither Fire Emblem's nor Zelda's fault, is Sakurai's fault.

The problem Pokémon runs into is the opposite of Zelda - there’s just too many options. You can make viable movesets for probably about half the Pokémon, equal to about four and a half times the roster I heard rumored for Ultimate when it was announced, and there are obvious shoe-ins like Pikachu who will eat up slots for Pokémon more fitting for fighting games(Infernape and Toxicroak first come to my mind) whether you want Pikachu or not. If they wanted to make a Pokémon Smash, with say 100 of the most fitting Pokémon in it, by all means sign me up, but Smash is supposed to represent more than one franchise, and Pokémon is just too big to be properly represented without shafting every other series involved, even counting the fact that Poke Balls allowed Sakurai to boost Pokémon's rep factor more than any of the other franchises.

As for Zelda, I’m afraid I’d have to agree with Etheus here - Zelda has very few recurring characters who could transfer into Smash as fighters easily, most if not all of them have already been included in some form or other. Honestly, Zelda fits the Warriors style much better than the Smash style, which is why Hyrule Warriors was such a hit - rather than try to rebalance the representation of Smash yet again, Zelda got a game all its own that allowed them to bring to shine characters like Fi, Ruto, or Zant, who would have had some difficulty properly transferring into Smash without feeling not quite given justice. As it is, I still hear people whining about how Yink was done dirty because he doesn't feature anything from Majora’s Mask, and I don’t really want to hear more complaining about how Sakurai messed up ANOTHER Zelda character, so I think the Zelda roster is just fine as it is - we got all three Triforce-users, which is pretty much all you need to actually represent what Zelda is about, plus two extra versions of Link to properly represent the split timelines and Zelda’s disguise to show how she’s not your ordinary princess character, AND two Mii fighter outfits in case there’s not enough Link in your Smash.

[Gregster101]

8 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

The problem Pokémon runs into is the opposite of Zelda - there’s just too many options. You can make viable movesets for probably about half the Pokémon, equal to about four and a half times the roster I heard rumored for Ultimate when it was announced, and there are obvious shoe-ins like Pikachu who will eat up slots for Pokémon more fitting for fighting games(Infernape and Toxicroak first come to my mind) whether you want Pikachu or not. If they wanted to make a Pokémon Smash, with say 100 of the most fitting Pokémon in it, by all means sign me up, but Smash is supposed to represent more than one franchise, and Pokémon is just too big to be properly represented without shafting every other series involved, even counting the fact that Poke Balls allowed Sakurai to boost Pokémon's rep factor more than any of the other franchises.

As for Zelda, I’m afraid I’d have to agree with Etheus here - Zelda has very few recurring characters who could transfer into Smash as fighters easily, most if not all of them have already been included in some form or other. Honestly, Zelda fits the Warriors style much better than the Smash style, which is why Hyrule Warriors was such a hit - rather than try to rebalance the representation of Smash yet again, Zelda got a game all its own that allowed them to bring to shine characters like Fi, Ruto, or Zant, who would have had some difficulty properly transferring into Smash without feeling not quite given justice. As it is, I still hear people whining about how Yink was done dirty because he doesn't feature anything from Majora’s Mask, and I don’t really want to hear more complaining about how Sakurai messed up ANOTHER Zelda character, so I think the Zelda roster is just fine as it is - we got all three Triforce-users, which is pretty much all you need to actually represent what Zelda is about, plus two extra versions of Link to properly represent the split timelines and Zelda’s disguise to show how she’s not your ordinary princess character, AND two Mii fighter outfits in case there’s not enough Link in your Smash.

Do you not understand why people want an actually new Zelda character though? It really is overdue for one cuz it hasn't gotten a new unique character since Melee, and this would be less of a problem if it wasn't for the fact that half the Zelda characters in Smash are semi-clones. Young Link and Toon Link are both semi clones of Link, and Ganondorf is a semi clone of the completely unrelated Captain Falcon.

[Fabulously Olivier]

35 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

Do you not understand why people want an actually new Zelda character though? It really is overdue for one cuz it hasn't gotten a new unique character since Melee, and this would be less of a problem if it wasn't for the fact that half the Zelda characters in Smash are semi-clones. Young Link and Toon Link are both semi clones of Link, and Ganondorf is a semi clone of the completely unrelated Captain Falcon.

It seems to me that what you should really be asking for is a decloned Ganondorf. He deserves better. 

[Gregster101]

21 minutes ago, Etheus said:

It seems to me that what you should really be asking for is a decloned Ganondorf. He deserves better. 

I do want a decloned Ganondorf. But I've just accepted that at this point that he's doomed to be a Captain Falcon semi clone even with whatever new changes he gets

[Hero_Lucina]

I;m actually working on a moveset concept for Dedue. Please don't kill me for this but I think if we were to get a non lord rep, I'd want him.

His kit is like a wierd fusion of the Belmonts, Little Mac and throw in some Ganondorf.

[Lightcosmo]

16 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

I do want a decloned Ganondorf. But I've just accepted that at this point that he's doomed to be a Captain Falcon semi clone even with whatever new changes he gets

You shouldn't give up on him being changed, you never know, really. What game would his moveset be based on though? OoT?

[Gregster101]

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

You shouldn't give up on him being changed, you never know, really. What game would his moveset be based on though? OoT?

He could pull moves from various games really, seeing as how TP Zelda in Smash 4 and ALBW Zelda in Ultimate use the Phantoms from Spirit Tracks. He could use either his dual swords or trident and his tennis balls of energy for a moveset.

[Lightcosmo]

2 hours ago, Gregster101 said:

He could pull moves from various games really, seeing as how TP Zelda in Smash 4 and ALBW Zelda in Ultimate use the Phantoms from Spirit Tracks. He could use either his dual swords or trident and his tennis balls of energy for a moveset.

Ah right, the "dead man's volley" I wouldn't mind taking things from all Zelda games.

[SoulWeaver]

3 hours ago, Gregster101 said:

Do you not understand why people want an actually new Zelda character though? It really is overdue for one cuz it hasn't gotten a new unique character since Melee, and this would be less of a problem if it wasn't for the fact that half the Zelda characters in Smash are semi-clones. Young Link and Toon Link are both semi clones of Link, and Ganondorf is a semi clone of the completely unrelated Captain Falcon.

Of course I understand why they would want one, it's pretty much the same reason I want another Metroid rep - it's a good franchise that's been around for a long time, and has several characters that their fanbases love and would like to see given such an honor. You also have to look at it from the perspective of Sakurai, though - what characters are absolutely necessary to represent the franchise properly? Can those characters be implemented as fighters, or do they not quite work there? If the latter, can they be implemented as Assist Trophies instead? Spoilered for size convenience.

Spoiler

I'll use Metroid as my example. Is it really necessary to have anyone besides Samus herself to properly represent Metroid? Well, technically no, Mother Brain is often the main antagonist of the games, and Ridley has become basically a series staple due to getting cloned/revived/duplicated/what have you pretty much every game(they even retconned him into Metroid 2 for no reason). Ok, let's look at them then. Mother Brain as a fighter is definitely out, no way is that going to work, but she can be implemented as an Assist Trophy, a Stage Hazard, or, if you're needing an extra bossfight for say Re:Subspace Emissary, you can implement her there and even include her second form from Super Metroid. Now let's look at Ridley. Based on most game canon, Ridley really is too big to be included as a fighter - even back in Super Metroid he's markedly bigger than Samus. However, he really doesn't fit into the Assist Trophy category either, as having something that big only really works if it remains stationary, hence why Mother Brain functions here. The Stage Hazard and Story Mode Boss categories are really the only ones Ridley fits, at least with what I assume was Sakurai's logic up through Sm4sh, and that's why he's seen as a Stage Hazard in Sm4sh, a Story Mode Boss in Brawl, an Opening Video Cameo in Melee, and a Stage Cameo in Smash64 - even as far back as the first Smash Sakurai understood that Ridley was kind of necessary to properly represent Metroid as a franchise, but he had nowhere to put him in the game so had to make do with the cameo. It's only recently(and I can't answer for why Sakurai suddenly decided this was ok) that the original Metroid was brought up as an example of Ridley not being too large to be included which of course led to his subsequent appearance as a fighter alongside Dark Samus, who has also risen to the level of too important not to include due to playing such a large role across the Prime subseries(though I personally disagree with this decision).

Now for Zelda. Looking at the franchise, there's only one character who really plays a significant enough role to be considered necessary for proper franchise representation who hasn't been included, at least from my perspective, and that's Impa. The difficulty here is that Impa's movements, at least as depicted in Hyrule Warriors, don't transfer to Smash very well, similar to how Heihachi Mishima from Tekken was originally planned to be a fighter but was reduced to a mere Mii Fighter costume because Sakurai encountered difficulty transferring his moves over in such a way as to make him feel properly done. While Impa could technically be given a moveset like Cloud's due to their similar armaments, Zelda fans already complain about half their characters all being Link and so it seems risky to put in Impa with a moveset similar to another fighter's, at least to me. Her Naginata is also troubling to add, likely for the same reason we don't actually have a Lance FE character like Ephraim, since they're a somewhat awkward weapon to properly include in a 2D fighting game. Because of this, Impa would probably need to be at least relegated to Assist Trophy status.

Don't get me wrong, if Sakurai can make another Zelda fighter work I'm down for it, I just don't think it's necessary.

[Lord_Brand]

Back on topic, I think one of the villainous sorcerers - Gharnef, Validar, Iago - deserve a slot in Smash. We still don't have any playable FE villains, and the sorcerers are some of the series' most iconic. My personal preference would be Validar, he could get unique win quotes when facing Chrom, Robin, or Lucina and vice versa. Plus I like his Jafar-esque design.

[Gregster101]

6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Back on topic, I think one of the villainous sorcerers - Gharnef, Validar, Iago - deserve a slot in Smash. We still don't have any playable FE villains, and the sorcerers are some of the series' most iconic. My personal preference would be Validar, he could get unique win quotes when facing Chrom, Robin, or Lucina and vice versa. Plus I like his Jafar-esque design.

The fact that you even suggested fucking Iago just hurts me

[thecrimsonflash]

This video about sums it up for me, tiki is just a good pick in every regard, much as I'd like to expect everyone to watch the video I'll summarize it, though if you want my full opinion check it out, though I will warn it is long though timestamps are in the description, the quality isn't perfect, but it isn't my day job.

 

My primary reasons are that she is a legacy character who actually has a ton of resources to work with for a moveset and she would bring a completely new playstyle that isn't really present to smash bros due to not fighting with any conventional weapons and her ability to transform could make a genuinely dynamic playstyle, especially among fire emblem characters. The video puts it better than I can here, but this is my primary pick now and it has very little to do with favoritism.

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

Edelgard

Dimitri 

Claude

Julia

Celica using magic only

[Deer's Wolf]

 I have 8 of them!

Azura (Lance and Magic)

Sakura (Arrow, and Healing)

Camilla (Axe and Magic)

Claude (Arrow, Axe Lance, Healing, and Magic

Dimitri (Lance, Axe, Healing, and Magic) (possible include sword in one move)

Edelgard (Axe, Healing, and Magic) (possible include sword in one move)

Tiki (magic and transformation)

Micaiah (magic)

I also have two other ideas that are technically Sword fighters, but I also see way that I can sneak in ways for them to use more then JUST their words!