FE6 Actually Has Good Characters

[Harvey]

On 12/29/2019 at 1:32 AM, eclipse said:

I don't know how you can be so very wrong on so many things. . .

The thing about FE6 supports is that they are parts to a whole, and it's not as obvious as FE7.  Cecilia knows how to say things without explicitly telling them, if the situation calls for it (see; Saul).  Or, she can say them outright (see: Douglas).  Or even when to put a sock in it (see: Perceval).

Lastly, Zephiel and Hardin come from drastically different backgrounds, and have very different motives.  Both are tragic in their own right, but I think Zephiel requires a little more thought to process.

If you want simple characters and simple interactions, stick with Fates.

The supports in FE6 are not very deep and I said earlier that there are only few supports that are deep. What is so engaging about Wolt and Alen support? What is so great about Cecila's supports? None of them really stand out on their own because of how simple the dialogue for many of the supports are. It doesn't matter how good the cast of FE6 are because many would not really get into them. 

FE7 had better deep ones as it was actual slice of life dialogue that was written for each one that FE6 was begging to have even if some of them were pointless.

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Harvey

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 12/29/2019 at 1:40 AM, eclipse said:

Reread the entire comment before making these kinds of statements, will you?

But I did read the entire comment. I just felt it came off a little rude.

Acknowledging that "tone" can be difficult to convey over the internet, I would like to apologize if I seemed hostile, as such does not reflect my intentions.

17 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I always seen Rutger as the more "I want to be that way but am gentle at the core" kinda guy, his childhood just really messed him up, and his desire for vengeance consumes him, rather than simply, " I am badass because I am a detached swordfighter", like a lot of the others.

I can definitely see that, but it's still a bit of a cliche, you know? Definitely an improvement over the alternative you mentioned regardless.

[Lightcosmo]

4 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I can definitely see that, but it's still a bit of a cliche, you know? Definitely an improvement over the alternative you mentioned regardless.

Yes, it's certainly a step in the right direction, for sure. I agree he could have been improved on alot, but he's much more in depth than Navarre.

[Etrurian emperor]

7 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I'd argue that Reptor and Langobalt in turn are discount versions of Lekain and Valtome. Now that I think about it, does FE have good evil noble villains outside of FE10? Even Three Houses evil nobles barely get any screen time like Ferdinand's dad and he only exists to make Edelgard look badass. No different from Reptor and Langabalt existing to make Arvis look badass and the FE6 nobles existing to make Roy look better in comparison. 

They do fall in the same general corrupt noble trope but I wouldn't say team Lekain resembles team Reptor all that much. Team Roartz is pretty much team Reptor copy pasted in Etruria and made less competent but with the Senators there are more differences then similarities. Reptor is a fairly no nonsense antagonist with little screentime while Lekain is a more personal antagonist who takes a certain amount of joy in what he does. Contradictory Reptor has a very bad relation with Siguard while the more personable Lekain probably spends his entire life not knowing who Ike is even supposed to be. 

I certainly find Lekain the more fun, threatening and engaging antagonist but I wouldn't say team Reptor only exist to hype off Arvis either. They are already villains in their own right with a deep grudge against Sigurd's family before Arvis shows up. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

They do fall in the same general corrupt noble trope but I wouldn't say team Lekain resembles team Reptor all that much. Team Roartz is pretty much team Reptor copy pasted in Etruria and made less competent but with the Senators there are more differences then similarities. Reptor is a fairly no nonsense antagonist with little screentime while Lekain is a more personal antagonist who takes a certain amount of joy in what he does. Contradictory Reptor has a very bad relation with Siguard while the more personable Lekain probably spends his entire life not knowing who Ike is even supposed to be. 

I'd say that if anything, the evil Etrurian nobles are FE3's Lang again, well, at least partly so. FE6 is much a remix of FEs 1 & 3 narratively. The Western Isles, that filler arc of the plot, to me is inspired by the Grust Expedition + Macedon and the fight with Lang that begins Book 2's story. The Western Isles trip was a ploy intended to get the Lycian Army under Roy out of Lycia so Bern could take advantage of the absence. Marth was sent to Grust and Macedon under a pretense of a just cause, like Roy in the Isles, but its real purpose was to leave Altea undefended and ripe for conquest.

 

Lombard and Leptor, Lang, or Lekain's cadre, all are much better than FE6's terrible pesky nobles. They have no personality, no real goals, and they spend waaaaaaaaaaaay too long in the plot. More Murdock, more Brunnya, more of the lacking Zephiel, Bern suffers because these pieces of styrofoam exist.

[Etrurian emperor]

51 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd say that if anything, the evil Etrurian nobles are FE3's Lang again, well, at least partly so. FE6 is much a remix of FEs 1 & 3 narratively. The Western Isles, that filler arc of the plot, to me is inspired by the Grust Expedition + Macedon and the fight with Lang that begins Book 2's story. The Western Isles trip was a ploy intended to get the Lycian Army under Roy out of Lycia so Bern could take advantage of the absence. Marth was sent to Grust and Macedon under a pretense of a just cause, like Roy in the Isles, but its real purpose was to leave Altea undefended and ripe for conquest.

I did notice that Roy's expedition to the Islands had very much in common with Marth's expedition to Grust. Both are about quelling completely understandable rebellions against an ally that's more evil than the goody two shoes lord initially thought. But Lang strikes me more as the sadistic governor type ala Jared. Incredibly evil but also not particularly high on the corrupt totum pole. What makes me think Roarz is such a copy of Leptor is that they both have gained the same control over similar corrupt nations, abusing the health of the same sort of desperate and sick king while having killed the same type of noble crown prince. 

 

55 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Lombard and Leptor, Lang, or Lekain's cadre, all are much better than FE6's terrible pesky nobles. They have no personality, no real goals, and they spend waaaaaaaaaaaay too long in the plot. More Murdock, more Brunnya, more of the lacking Zephiel, Bern suffers because these pieces of styrofoam exist.

The idea of having former puppeteers of the throne become traitors and take back the country they lost by force isn't wholly uninteresting. But their incompetence makes it less interesting than it should have been. Murdock and Brunnya kinda spell out that the two traitors are just about worthless and that they don't respect them at all which undermines any interesting aspect of them being traitors. But you're right. It would have been better if they had died in the capitol. 

[Icelerate]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Lombard and Leptor, Lang, or Lekain's cadre, all are much better than FE6's terrible pesky nobles. They have no personality, no real goals, and they spend waaaaaaaaaaaay too long in the plot. More Murdock, more Brunnya, more of the lacking Zephiel, Bern suffers because these pieces of styrofoam exist.

Isn't their goal to continue their mines and profit off the slavery? If that's the case, why work them to death because if they continue doing so, they'll eventually run out of slaves and the mine would become unprofitable. Also, if there's a rebellion and slavery going on in the Western Isles, why send Roy to the Western Isles. Shouldn't these nobles want to keep this a secret instead of allowing a foreign noble who also has strong ties with Etruria know about what is going on. I think these guys are dumb. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Just now, Icelerate said:

Isn't their goal to continue their mines and profit off the slavery? If that's the case, why work them to death because if they continue doing so, they'll eventually run out of slaves and the mine would become unprofitable.

 

It wouldn't be an oversight without historical precedent.

Just now, Icelerate said:

Also, if there's a rebellion and slavery going on in the Western Isles, why send Roy to the Western Isles. Shouldn't these nobles want to keep this a secret instead of allowing a foreign noble who also has strong ties with Etruria know about what is going on.

I think they intended him to get killed while over there, but that's mostly a guess.

That said I'm not terribly fond of either Roartz or Arcado, I think they're fine but I wouldn't call them highlights of the cast.

[Icelerate]

6 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

 

It wouldn't be an oversight without historical precedent.

I think they intended him to get killed while over there, but that's mostly a guess.

That said I'm not terribly fond of either Roartz or Arcado, I think they're fine but I wouldn't call them highlights of the cast.

Perhaps but I think the game tried too hard to make you hate them and love Roy to the extent it ends up feeling flat and you feel apathetic to what's going on. 

You're right they wanted to appease Bern IIRC and that would be done by eliminating the Lycian army. Still if they cared so much for the mines, they wouldn't have did this in the first place as everything suggests that the occupation force couldn't deal with both the resistance army and the Lycian alliance army.   

[eclipse]

20 hours ago, Harvey said:

The supports in FE6 are not very deep and I said earlier that there are only few supports that are deep. What is so engaging about Wolt and Alen support? What is so great about Cecila's supports? None of them really stand out on their own because of how simple the dialogue for many of the supports are. It doesn't matter how good the cast of FE6 are because many would not really get into them. 

FE7 had better deep ones as it was actual slice of life dialogue that was written for each one that FE6 was begging to have even if some of them were pointless.

. . .it's like you read my previous comment and completely missed the point.  Also, note that there's no official translation for these, so we're going off of the goodwill of those who cared about the supports.

As in, if you're not able to do a proper analysis of what's being said (or what's NOT being said), then you're in no position to trash a game, since I explained Cecilia's one.  Hence why I feel something simpler like Fates is more suited to you.

20 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

But I did read the entire comment. I just felt it came off a little rude.

Acknowledging that "tone" can be difficult to convey over the internet, I would like to apologize if I seemed hostile, as such does not reflect my intentions.

If you really want people to come in and literally shit on your title, that's up to you.  Because that's exactly what happened.  I have little patience for those sorts of things.

Edited December 31, 2019 by eclipse

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

If you really want people to come in and literally shit on your title, that's up to you.  Because that's exactly what happened.  I have little patience for those sorts of things.

I like FE6, but it's not a big deal if other people don't.

[eclipse]

13 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I like FE6, but it's not a big deal if other people don't.

I'm neutral on FE6 (IMO it did a lot of things right and wrong, but this isn't the place or time for me to go into details), but I'm also here to remind others what is not acceptable.  I'll be as harsh as necessary.

[Harvey]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:11 AM, eclipse said:

. . .it's like you read my previous comment and completely missed the point.  Also, note that there's no official translation for these, so we're going off of the goodwill of those who cared about the supports.

As in, if you're not able to do a proper analysis of what's being said (or what's NOT being said), then you're in no position to trash a game, since I explained Cecilia's one.  Hence why I feel something simpler like Fates is more suited to you.

Aren't the supports actually the ones that show the depth of the characters since that is the only time you can see their background story? If so, then yes the supports do determine the overall character and that doesn't matter how well the translation was either. Had it not been for the supports, then the cast would be just as bland as the ones in FE1.

OP stated that there are some good characters and yes there are but they are so few and far between and OP missed Noah..one of the cast that has something going on there.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

If so, then yes the supports do determine the overall character and that doesn't matter how well the translation was either.

 

I'll agree with this point, actually. We can't expect people to be fluent in Japanese and read the originals, it's best for all intents and purposes to treat the translation patch like the official English version of the supports.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

OP stated that there are some good characters and yes there are but they are so few and far between and OP missed Noah..one of the cast that has something going on there.

Noah's not bad. I don't think he's as good as the four laid out in the opening post, but he's not bad. His A support with Zealot is kind of interesting in the context of his other supports, a good demonstration of him staying inside his emotionally detached ways.

***

Now, I'd also like to add real quick that simple characters are not bad characters. I've said before that I quite like Gonzales, but he's not exactly complicated.

[eclipse]

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

Aren't the supports actually the ones that show the depth of the characters since that is the only time you can see their background story? If so, then yes the supports do determine the overall character and that doesn't matter how well the translation was either. Had it not been for the supports, then the cast would be just as bland as the ones in FE1.

I mean, you can also ignore Cecilia's role for THE ENTIRE GAME, and call her bland.

Or you load up two different English version patches of FE6 and see how the supports compare to one another.  It isn't going to be a perfect match.  Wording choices will affect how someone is portrayed.  But if you're not familiar with things like language subtleties, I'll once again direct you to Fates - something so ham-fisted that nuance goes out the window.

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

OP stated that there are some good characters and yes there are but they are so few and far between and OP missed Noah..one of the cast that has something going on there.

I don't know about few and far between.  Hell, I managed to find something interesting about Treck, of all people.

[Harvey]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:13 AM, eclipse said:

I mean, you can also ignore Cecilia's role for THE ENTIRE GAME, and call her bland.

If you ignore the supports, then yes, she would have been as bland as a character as she would have just stopped talking at chapter 12 or something and just been silent.

It doesn't matter anyways since FE6 is suppose to be an incarnation of FE1 in some ways and it did just that. having a bland cast overall with some few good characters here and there.