Golden Deer Maddening Team

[Random Schemer]

Hello everyone! I created a team for my next run in Three Houses (Golden Deer) on NG+ and I'm looking for advises.

(I'm a new member of Serenes Forest so I hope this is the right topic)

 

1) Byleth (F) (Mixed utility)

Class: Commoner --> Myrmidon --> Pegasus Knight --> Enlighted One

Main Weapons: Sublime Creator Sword//Magic//

Item: Evasion Ring

Skills: Professor's Guidance+, SwordFaire/Terrain Resistance, Sword Prowess Lv.5/Reason Prowess Lv.3/Authority Prowess Lv5/Darting Blow/Sacred Power

Combat Arts: Windseep/Bane of Monsters/Curved Shot/Sublime Heaven

 

2) Claude (Player phase ranged nuke or Enemy phase Fallen Star + Battallion Wrath sweep)

Class: Noble --> Fighter --> Brigant --> Wyvern Master --> Barbarossa

Main Weapons: Failnaught/Killer Bow+/Bow of Zoltan+

Item: Golden Deer Bracelet

Skills: Leicester Lineage+, Charm/Bowfaire/Canto, Bow Prowess Lv.5/Authority Prowess Lv.5/Close Counter/Death Blow/Battalion Wrath

Combat Arts: Monster Blast/Encloser/Wind God/Fallen Star

 

3) Lysithea (MAGIC IS EVERYTHING)

Class: Noble --> Monk --> Mage --> Warlock --> Gremory

Main Weapons: /Magic/

Item: Thyrsus

Skills: Mastermind, Black Magic Uses x2/Dark Magic Uses x2/White Magic Usesx2, Reason Prowess Lv.5/Faith Prowess Lv.5/Black Magic Range +1/Fiendish Blow/Defiant Magic

Combat Arts: /None/

 

4) Hilda (Wrath+Vantage and Speed debuff)

Class: Noble --> Fighter --> Myrmidon --> Warrior --> Wyvern Lord

Main Weapons: Freikugel/Killer Axe+

Item: Accuracy Ring

Skills: Advocate, Axefaire/Avoid +10/Canto, Axe Prowess Lv.5/Seal Speed/Vantage/Wrath/Defiant Critical

Combat Arts: Smash/Helm Splitter/Diamond Axe/Apocalyptic Flame

 

5) Raphael (Physical tank + healing options)

Class: Commoner --> Fighter --> Armored Knight --> Fortress Knight --> War Master --> Fortress Knight

Main Weapons: Brave Axe+/Axe of Ukonovasara/Silver Gauntlets+

Item: Ochain Shield

Skills: Goody Basket, Axefaire/Weight -5, Axe Prowess Lv.5/Fist Prowess Lv.5/Armored Blow/Pavise/Quick Riposte

Combat Arts: Smash/Draining Blow/Healing Focus

 

6) Leonie (Speedy archer with range and movement)

Class: Commoner --> Soldier --> Pegasus Knight --> Sniper --> Bow Knight 

Main Weapons: Killer Bow+/Brave Bow+

Item: Speed Ring

Skills: Rivalry, Bowfaire/Bowrange +2/Canto, Bow Prowess Lv.5/Authority Prowess Lv.3/Movement +1/Darting Blow/Defiant Speed

Combat Arts: Curved Shot/Break Shot/Point-Blank Volley

 

7) Marianne (Healer, magic tank and magic damage)

Class: Noble --> Monk --> Mage --> Bishop

Main Weapons: Blutgang/Levin Sword//Magic//

Item: Cadeceus Staff/Healing Staff/Hexlock Shield

Skills: Animal Friend, White Magic Heal +10/White Magic Uses x2/Terrain Resistance, Sword Prowess Lv.3/Faith Prowess Lv.5/White Magic Range +1/Fiendish Blow/Renewal

Combat Arts: Wrath Strike/Soulblade/Beast Fang

 

8) Ferdinand (Avoid Tank 1)

Class: Noble --> Fighter --> Brigant --> Wyvern Rider --> Wyvern Lord

Main Weapons: Axe od Zoltan+/Brave Axe+

Item: Evasion Ring

Skills: Confidance, Axefaire/Avoid +10/Canto, Axe Prowess Lv.5/Authority Prowess Lv.3/Lancebreaker/Alert Stance+/Seal Speed

Combat Arts: Shatter Slice/Smash/Focused Strike

 

9) Petra (Avoid Tank 2)

Class: Noble --> Myrmidon --> Thief --> Assassin/Dancer

Main Weapons: Wo Dao+/Cursed Ashiya Sword+/Killing Edge+

Item: Evasion Ring

Skills: Hunter's Boon, Swordfaire/Stealth/Locktouch, Sword Prowess Lv.5/Bow Prowess Lv.3/Alert Stance+/Sword Avoid +20/Lethality

Combat Arts: Finesse Blade/Curved Shot/Waning Shot

 

10) Felix (Player Phase Nuke: 4 consecutive hits with gautlets + chance of crit. With Defiant Strength he should be able to KO like... the 90% of the enemies as long as he doesn't miss)

Class: Noble --> Myrmidon --> Brigant --> Cavlier --> Hero --> War Master

Main Weapons: Killer Knuckles+/Killer Bow+

Item: March Ring

Skills: Lone Wolf, Axefaire/Fistfaire/Critical +20, Fist Prowess Lv.5/Bow Prowess Lv.3/Death Blow/Desperation/Defiant Strength

Combat Arts: Fading Blow/Nimble Combo/Curved Shot

 

11) Shamir (Critical machine, she's the only one able to unlock Bow critical +10 early on and... I prefer bows over swords and she has more dex. Sorry Catherine)

Class: Sniper --> Brigant --> Sniper

Main Weapons: The Inexhaustible/Killer Bow+

Item: Critical Ring

Skills: Survival Instinct, Bowfaire/Bowrange +1, Bow Prowess Lv.5/Authority Prowess Lv.3/Bow Critical +10/Bowfaire/Death Blow

Combat Arts: Curved Shot/Heavy Draw/Monster Blast/Huneter's Volley

 

12) Cyril (Another Wrath Vantage but with 3 range so he can counter mages/snipers...)

Class: Commoner --> Fighter --> Mercenary --> Warrior --> Sniper 

Main Weapons: Killer Bow+/Killer Axe+

Item: Critical Ring

Skills: Aptitude, Bowfaire/Bowrange +1, Bow Prowess Lv.5/Axe Prowess Lv.5/Close Counter/Vantage/Wrath

Combat Arts: Helm Splitter/Curved Shot/Point Blank-Volley/Hunter's Volley

 

 Is it good? Let me know your thoughts. (Sorry for the long post)

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Random Schemer

[Shadow Mir]

I don't think this is good. First off, I'm... not sure I'd recommend Raphael - he's just too goddamn slow to be worthwhile. And I seriously doubt he's tanky enough to make up for being doubled by everything and their grandma. Second, I would avoid using the Defiant skills - they're too impractical. Third, drop Diamond Axe - power doesn't do you jack nor shit if you whiff, and axes are too inaccurate to be using a combat art that drops your accuracy further. Fourth, I would not use Desperation - needing to be at less than half health is iffy imo. Fifth, I'd pass over Lethality for an ability that'll actually do something.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[iavasechui]

Quick riposte is pretty amazing on Raphael though 

[Shadow Mir]

15 minutes ago, iavasechui said:

Quick riposte is pretty amazing on Raphael though 

That's small comfort, to put it bluntly. Unless you're saying OP should be okay with raising someone who's going to get constantly doubled until Quick Riposte comes into play, which, since it's tied to a Master tier class, won't be for a long, long time...

Edited December 22, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

- I would recommend against investing in Black Magic with Byleth. Not only is their Magic Stat rather lackluster at 6 Base and 35% growth with no class base to bring it up, their spell list also isn't that great since it's just Fire, Thunder, Bolganone, and Ragnarock. If you really want to attack using Magic, just use a Levin Sword instead since it makes use of their Faire skill and has 3 Range once forged.

- Drop Battalion Wrath on Claude. The Skill and it's regular version only work on Enemy Phase and Claude isn't going to see much action considering how hard enemies hit in Maddening and how Faller Star only work on one round of combat. Zoltan weapons are also something you shouldn't consider as it takes 12 Wootz Steel to forge any of them, leaving a lot less for Brave Weapons to use.

-Would recommend going Dark Knight over Gremory Lysithea. It gives +2 damage to her Dark spells thanks to Dark Tomefaire and allowing a 4-5 Range unit to repostion with canto is rather nice. 

-Seal Skills that are applied on Enemy Phase don't last to the next Player Phase, so it's fairly useless on that Hilda. You should also consider getting Hit +20 on her since hit rates with the Killer Axe tend to be shaky and Defiant Crit comes to late to really be part of a build for consistent Crit Rates. 

 -Wouldn't recommend Fortress Knight on any character really. Enemies in Maddening scale in damage very quickly, to the point where keeping up defensively doesn't really work. If you really want to use Rapheal, I'd recommend going Brigand > Grappler and staying in that class for Fierce Iron Fist, which can lead him to one round a surprising amount of enemies.

- Leonie should really go into Brigand rather than Archer to learn Deathblow with how well it couples with Point Blank Volley. 

- White Magic +1 is rather useless on Marianne consider she only gets Nosferatu and Aura and doesn't even get White tomefaire as Bishop. Just focus on the Levin Sword if you want offense out of her. Rapier + is also a lot better than Blutgang when combined with Soul Blade.

-You should consider Fredinand as another combat unit since you only really need one Dodgetank and having Swiftstrikes makes him rather useful. I'd suggest replacing with Seteth, however, since he typically has better stats than him at base.

-Petra should most certainly not certify as a Dancer as she can dodgetank just fine as a Wyvern without Sword Avoid. It's fine keeping her using swords thanks Wyvern's Strength Mod, though keep a bow on her to Avoid Breaker skills. She's also a unit that would benefit immensely from Battalion Wrath.

-I'd recommend Felix to do the same thing I recommend with Rapheal. It's very difficult for even a fast unit like Felix to consistently quad on Maddening so Desperation doesn't really come into play a lot. Defiant Strength would work well with Fierce Iron Fist, but I'd think it would take too long to master. 

-Shamir looks fine.

-Cyril is a unit I'd recommend as a Wyvern Lord. He only losses +2 Strength compared Sniper thanks to the class mod, and being able to fly around is pretty vaulable. Being able to counter Mages doesn't really matter as every unit can with the Retribution Gambit, which is much better considering how bows get -30 hit at 3 range.

But honestly, I think they're are more pressing issues than how you're using units. If you want my advice:

• You're using way too many combat units. Everyone on you're team will suffer because of this since that means less Exp to go around and less chances to earn Class exp . You should only want to invest heavily in about 6-7 Combat units and have the rest as support.

• There's not enough emphasis being placed on Battalions, espically support ones. Retribution, Impregenable Wall, Blessing, and Stride are all extremely good gambits that can really change how you approach a battle. 

• Use a Dancer. They're by far the most versatile you unit you can field and you should never consider giving up one. 

• There's too much of a focus on the Mastery class skills. It takes a 100 rounds of combat to master one of those classes, which is simply way too long achieve for most units without grinding. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[Shadow Mir]

36 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

• There's too much of a focus on the Mastery class skills. It takes a 100 rounds of combat to master one of those classes, which is simply way too long achieve for most units without grinding. 

I would also note that most of the master class skills are not worth it, considering that most of them are Defiant skills, and Seal Resistance isn't so useful for the reasons you stated.

36 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

- White Magic +1 is rather useless on Marianne consider she only gets Nosferatu and Aura and doesn't even get White tomefaire as Bishop. Just focus on the Levin Sword if you want offense out of her. Rapier + is also a lot better than Blutgang when combined with Soul Blade.

I would also state that white magic in general is ill suited for offense because the spells are too heavy. Which reminds me, I would recommend investing some in Reason for Marianne because Nosferatu sucks worse than Little Mac's recovery, with its 8 weight and 1 might.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

49 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would also note that most of the master class skills are not worth it, considering that most of them are Defiant skills, and Seal Resistance isn't so useful for the reasons you stated.

Barring the defensive ones, the Defiant skills can be worth it on units that outrange enemies, such as Mages or Bow Knights, or ones that don't take much damage from enemies such as dodgetanks.

For example: https://imgur.com/a/Q7VH2EU

The only thing holding them back is the amount of combat needed to obtain them. But overlooking that makes them pretty useful skills, espically since most units can only take 1-2 hits anyways before going down.

Edited December 22, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[Random Schemer]

3 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

- I would recommend against investing in Black Magic with Byleth. Not only is their Magic Stat rather lackluster at 6 Base and 35% growth with no class base to bring it up, their spell list also isn't that great since it's just Fire, Thunder, Bolganone, and Ragnarock. If you really want to attack using Magic, just use a Levin Sword instead since it makes use of their Faire skill and has 3 Range once forged.

- Drop Battalion Wrath on Claude. The Skill and it's regular version only work on Enemy Phase and Claude isn't going to see much action considering how hard enemies hit in Maddening and how Faller Star only work on one round of combat. Zoltan weapons are also something you shouldn't consider as it takes 12 Wootz Steel to forge any of them, leaving a lot less for Brave Weapons to use.

-Would recommend going Dark Knight over Gremory Lysithea. It gives +2 damage to her Dark spells thanks to Dark Tomefaire and allowing a 4-5 Range unit to repostion with canto is rather nice. 

-Seal Skills that are applied on Enemy Phase don't last to the next Player Phase, so it's fairly useless on that Hilda. You should also consider getting Hit +20 on her since hit rates with the Killer Axe tend to be shaky and Defiant Crit comes to late to really be part of a build for consistent Crit Rates. 

 -Wouldn't recommend Fortress Knight on any character really. Enemies in Maddening scale in damage very quickly, to the point where keeping up defensively doesn't really work. If you really want to use Rapheal, I'd recommend going Brigand > Grappler and staying in that class for Fierce Iron Fist, which can lead him to one round a surprising amount of enemies.

- Leonie should really go into Brigand rather than Archer to learn Deathblow with how well it couples with Point Blank Volley. 

- White Magic +1 is rather useless on Marianne consider she only gets Nosferatu and Aura and doesn't even get White tomefaire as Bishop. Just focus on the Levin Sword if you want offense out of her. Rapier + is also a lot better than Blutgang when combined with Soul Blade.

-You should consider Fredinand as another combat unit since you only really need one Dodgetank and having Swiftstrikes makes him rather useful. I'd suggest replacing with Seteth, however, since he typically has better stats than him at base.

-Petra should most certainly not certify as a Dancer as she can dodgetank just fine as a Wyvern without Sword Avoid. It's fine keeping her using swords thanks Wyvern's Strength Mod, though keep a bow on her to Avoid Breaker skills. She's also a unit that would benefit immensely from Battalion Wrath.

-I'd recommend Felix to do the same thing I recommend with Rapheal. It's very difficult for even a fast unit like Felix to consistently quad on Maddening so Desperation doesn't really come into play a lot. Defiant Strength would work well with Fierce Iron Fist, but I'd think it would take too long to master. 

-Shamir looks fine.

-Cyril is a unit I'd recommend as a Wyvern Lord. He only losses +2 Strength compared Sniper thanks to the class mod, and being able to fly around is pretty vaulable. Being able to counter Mages doesn't really matter as every unit can with the Retribution Gambit, which is much better considering how bows get -30 hit at 3 range.

But honestly, I think they're are more pressing issues than how you're using units. If you want my advice:

• You're using way too many combat units. Everyone on you're team will suffer because of this since that means less Exp to go around and less chances to earn Class exp . You should only want to invest heavily in about 6-7 Combat units and have the rest as support.

• There's not enough emphasis being placed on Battalions, espically support ones. Retribution, Impregenable Wall, Blessing, and Stride are all extremely good gambits that can really change how you approach a battle. 

• Use a Dancer. They're by far the most versatile you unit you can field and you should never consider giving up one. 

• There's too much of a focus on the Mastery class skills. It takes a 100 rounds of combat to master one of those classes, which is simply way too long achieve for most units without grinding. 

Thank you for the advises. 

- I think I need some magic power because I only have Lysithea and something on Marianne so Byleth is the only option but... I think i'll go Levin Sword.

-I completely forgot that Fallen Star only works one round... I'll drop Battalion wrath then.

-Dark Knight Lysithea looks interesting...

-Seal speed is an option for Player Phase against some bosses, not enemy phase.

-On my last playthrough (Blue Lions maddening) Fortress Knight Dedue wasn't so bad... but onestly, I chose Fortress Knight because i thaught I need at least one physical tank, but I really like Grappler Raphael so... maybe I'll go for it

-I'm not sure about Leonie... she as 70% grow rate in speed and by midgame it should be enough to double, especially with Darting Blow, and double at range is better than +5 strength. Point-Blank Volley as 1 range and is not what Leonie as to do mainly... as a Bow Knight (on my last playthrough my Felix was able to double as a Swordmaster)

-I used Seteth on my last playthrough and... he became good only with Swift Strike. Ferdinand also has Swift Strike so I can train him in lances and... with only one dodgetank and no physical tanks i don't have many option to draw enemies so i'm not sure... Also, isn't dodgetank Ferdiand better than Seteth? As for the avoid Seteth never had less than 40% when I used him, he was good in combat, but he was also a bit frail physically on maddening.

-Sword Prowess Lv. 5 + Sword Avoid +20 isn't more than Axe Prowess Lv. 5 (lance would be too much long to train) and Avoid +10? I don't remember but maybe there isn't much difference. Who I can make a dancer? (I need that white magic heal +10 on Marianne)

-I tried to be "creative" with Felix xD but I like the standard Grappler way over Swordmaster since Astra isn't very effective...

-Cyril as Wyvern Lord archer was one of my best units when I used him. I can do it again. Wrath vantage sniper was a little experimental

 

-In my BL route i managed to train 12 units and... I think that 9/10 would be optimal

-As for the battalions no need to worry, I use them a lot. I forgot to write something about them.

-As for mastery skills, again, no need to worry: in training maps there is often at least one healer with only a few nosfetatus and... renewal. I isolate him and he became harmless after all his uses. Then i use a broken weapon in order to not kill him and even a miss count as class experience. Without animations it doesn't take much and there are 99 turns until the game over. Maybe this isn't enough for master classes but it is for advanced ones.

 

Sorry if I make some mistakes in english (i'm italian).

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Random Schemer

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Barring the defensive ones, the Defiant skills can be worth it on units that outrange enemies, such as Mages or Bow Knights, or ones that don't take much damage from enemies such as dodgetanks.

For example: https://imgur.com/a/Q7VH2EU

The only thing holding them back is the amount of combat needed to obtain them. But overlooking that makes them pretty useful skills, espically since most units can only take 1-2 hits anyways before going down.

The problem, as I see it,  is exactly as you said - as most units can only take one hit, maybe two, before dying, you'd have to hope that the few hits they can take are damaging enough to drop them into the narrow zone to where they're active. Mages, however, are likely to just up and die. Second, there's the fact that some Defiant skills are gender-exclusive (Strength in particular requires mastering a class that's inferior to Assassin and Swordmaster). Third, it ain't like you'll be able to slot in the Defiant skills for free, so what are you willing to give up for those? Fourth, gambits are a thing, and the enemy's likely to use them to try to strip you of what little HP you'd have left (granted, not every enemy has gambits, but still).

Edited December 22, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[eclipse]

If you're grinding, then this becomes somewhat moot.

My only contribution is to seriously consider a dancer within your own house.  The re-introduction chapter sucks that much.

[LoneRecon400]

2 hours ago, Random Schemer said:

-Seal speed is supposed to be an option for Player Phase against some bosses, it's not for enemy phase.

-Sword Prowess Lv. 5 + Sword Avoid +20 isn't more than Axe Prowess Lv. 5 (lance would be too much long to train) and Avoid +10? I don't remember but maybe there isn't much difference. Who I should i make a dancer? 

-I used Seteth on my last playthrough and... he became good only with Swift Strike. Ferdinand also has Swift Strike so I can train him in lances and... with only one dodgetank and no physical tanks i don't have many option to draw enemies so i'm not sure.

-I'm not sure about Leonie... she as 70% grow rate in speed and by midgame it should be enough to double, especially with Darting Blow, and double at range is better than +5 strength. Point-Blank Volley as 1 range and is not what Leonie as to do mainly... as a Bow Knight (on my last playthrough my Felix was able to double as a Swordmaster)

-As for mastery skills, again, no need to worry: in training maps.

Seal Speed doesn't work against the bosses that have the Commander skill, so it's rather limited for that use. About the only use for Seal Speed is against monsters, but those enemies tend to go down against Killer weapons thanks to their 0 Luck. 

While Sword Prowess Level 5 and Sword Avoid +20 would give +30 Avoid over using Axes, the thing is you don't really need it. A Base Wyvern Lord with Axe Prowess Level 4, Galatea Pegasus Knights, A Rank Adjutant, Evade Ring, and Alert Stance + would already give you 102 Avoid. Add to that Rally Speed, Cooked Bullheads x4, and a Special Dance will give you a 113 Avoid without even a single speed level up. That's more than enough to consistently avoid most enemy attacks.

You should make your Dancer any unit that's proficient in Riding so that they can get A+ Riding for Movement +1. A Dancer's main Priority should be dancing, so that they don't really need else aside from more movement. 

While Ferdinand can dodgetank more easily, if you ever need more than one dodgetank you can simply use Impregnable Wall to lure enemies over. And it's unlikely Fredinand will be able to meet Seteth's 27 Base Strength. 

Thing is about Leonie is a lot of the time you want it be using Point Blank Volley since it gives +3 Attack and +10 Hit, which can really make the difference on Maddening. Plus, the better bows tend to weigh Leonie down to the point she cant double even with Darting Blow, so it's just tends to be better to use the combat art anyways.

If you plan on grinding, you can disregard what I said about Mastery Class Skills. So long as you dedicate an entire Aux battle to a unit, they'll be able to master those classes in no time at all. Though I'd still find Fortress Knight Raph less than ideal because they're still quite slow movement wise.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem, as I see it,  is exactly as you said - as most units can only take one hit, maybe two, before dying, you'd have to hope that the few hits they can take are damaging enough to drop them into the narrow zone to where they're active. Mages, however, are likely to just up and die. Gambits are also a thing, and the enemy's likely to use them to try to strip you of what little HP you'd have left.

 And it's not like you'll be able to slot in the Defiant skills for free, so what are you willing to give up for those? 

It's easy enough to get a unit  to that 25% Threshold by having them just engage with a less threatening enemy like Fortress Knight or Siege Equipment, as while they hurt they tend to fail to one shot even mages. Gambits are tend to be uncommon on enemies and on only select few amount of enemies that can easily be avoided. 

Even if they're no Fortress Knights or structures like that, there's still a number of creative ways of reaching that threshold. For Example: engaging an enemy who does lethal damage with the Blessing Gambit or Defensive Adjutant equipped, using a crest weapon such as Thyrus on a crestless unit such as Dorothea to take 10 HP damage every action, using Impregnable Wall on a unit so that they survive an sniper's attack but still take damage form Poison Strike, etc.There's no shortage of ways to hit that 25% Thershold.

Defiant Skills give +8 Strength , Magic , +30 Avoid, or +50 Crit at the cost of not being able to take a hit normally. Considering that most units can't even stand more than a round of combat anyways, you're really not going to find a skill that outperforms that, especially in conjunction with other skills such as Vantage, Wrath, or Alert Stance+.

Edited December 22, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Aww, no Ignatz? I guess you're going to have Shamir and Cyril take his place. Shamir's a good, low maintenance pick. Since she joins as a level 13 sniper she'll get Hunter's Volley faster than anybody else. Though Death Blow is important enough to go back for in order to boost Volley by 10 damage. Cyril's...a little questionable. You definitely want to recruit Cyril as early as you can since he gets extremely few stats from the auto level ups (I think I heard Rengor mention his strength and speed are 15 at chapter 12). But with all those skill proficiencies, you can freely pick up all kinds of class bases if you stuck with him. Not a character I would use, but he can work if you're willing to baby him. This roster looks a lot like Mangs' playthrough, and he made Cyril an armor knight guard adjutant which is what I recommend for that character due to ease of recruitment. In that case, I'd hang on before recruiting him so that he's level 9 or 11, that way he's not hogging exp from your core team.

For Lysithea, I recommend grinding out Archer's Hit +20 on her in an auxilliary battle. You're looking at 60-80 accuracy miasma spells for the whole game if you don't. With a knowledge gem she just needs to shoot some poor healer 25 times with a rusted/broken bow. You can give her the Evil Macuil Repelling Co. battallion which is the only magic based battalion with +20 hit, however that's an A rank battalion.

As for Raphael, he's got a rough early game. He's not as bad as Caspar, but certainly no Dedue. For a unit that relies so much on class bases, I'd prioritize the experience gem on him. Avoiding doubles will only happen once he's a grappler (he will even enjoy quads on cavaliers and monsters on those bases alone), but getting him to war master so he can get QR as early as possible is key to having him meaningfully contribute in post time skip. 

Recruiting Felix is a good call for any playthrough I think. He's very easy to pick up since all he asks for is swords, and every Byleth wants that juicy windsweep combat art. His paralogue gives you a very nice reward in the aegis shield. Ferdinand takes some work, since you need C armor (his B support is time skip locked) so that'll take many of your activity points. He will give you another paralogue since Lysithea is on the team, though I don't remember what sort of reward it provides. If that doesn't sound enticing, Sylvain is mostly the same unit only his recruitment will be free since you're F!Byleth

Edited December 22, 2019 by Glennstavos

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Seal Speed doesn't work against the bosses that have the Commander skill, so it's rather limited for that use. About the only use for Seal Speed is against monsters, but those enemies tend to go down against Killer weapons thanks to their 0 Luck. 

IIRC, Commander is more common after the timeskip. Feel free to correct me on this though. Also, I would note Claude's paralogue has a monster boss that has an ability that negates status effects, meaning Seal Speed is no good there either. What's more, not all monsters have 0 luck, and those that do tend to have Vital Defense from their barriers anyhow.

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Ferdinand takes some work, since you need C armor (his B support is time skip locked) so that'll take many of your activity points. He will give you another paralogue since Lysithea is on the team, though I don't remember what sort of reward it provides.

It gives the Ochain Shield if you save all the villages, among other stuff.

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

It's easy enough to get a unit  to that 25% Threshold by having them just engage with a less threatening enemy like Fortress Knight or Siege Equipment, as while they hurt they tend to fail to one shot even mages. Gambits are tend to be uncommon on enemies and on only select few amount of enemies that can easily be avoided. 

Even if they're no Fortress Knights or structures like that, there's still a number of creative ways of reaching that threshold. For Example: engaging an enemy who does lethal damage with the Blessing Gambit or Defensive Adjutant equipped, using a crest weapon such as Thyrus on a crestless unit such as Dorothea to take 10 HP damage every action, using Impregnable Wall on a unit so that they survive an sniper's attack but still take damage form Poison Strike, etc.There's no shortage of ways to hit that 25% Thershold.

Defiant Skills give +8 Strength , Magic , +30 Avoid, or +50 Crit at the cost of not being able to take a hit normally. Considering that most units can't even stand more than a round of combat anyways, you're really not going to find a skill that outperforms that, especially in conjunction with other skills such as Vantage, Wrath, or Alert Stance+.

Siege equipment tends to not be on every map, and second, I'd seek to disable them stat so that I don't have to worry about them and/or so I can use them against the enemy instead if they were. Blessing requires B authority, and you'll only have the one battalion with it unless you either have online OR you have both Linhardt and Leonie. Either way, it does jack shit to change the fact that the Defiant skills are this trope because I feel they need too much support and for me to contort my game so the user doesn't become a liability. And i ask once again, what abilities are you okay with sacrificing for a stat boost that requires you to dance with disaster??? Because about the only things I could imagine sacking are some budding talent abilities that do me no conceivable good anyhow.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Hilda tends to get more than a few points of defense from the armor knight's bases, so unlocking that budding talent for seal speed seems in line with that goal, certainly. But the only for sure map I'd have it equipped is the Sothis paralogue, and maybe the story chapter where you rescue students from monsters. It can be quite nice for early chapters of maddening as you need to dogpile enemies with several units to kill them anyway. But after Sothis paralogue, it's usefulness tends to drop on any map that lacks monsters as the only enemy type and isn't worth equipping generally over something generically helpful like HP+5. Hilda's statline is excellent. She may not one round many enemies, but she'll hit hard enough that anybody else will pick up the kill without needing to double or suffer getting doubled.

If Seal skills actually worked on enemy phase they'd be much better for general use. But alas.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Glennstavos

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Blessing requires B authority, and you'll only have the one battalion with it unless you either have online OR you have both Linhardt and Leonie. 

And i ask once again, what abilities are you okay with sacrificing for a stat boost that requires you to dance with disaster??? Because about the only things I could imagine sacking are some budding talent abilities that do me no conceivable good anyhow.

Obtaining B Rank Authority is a non issue by the time Blessing shows up and applies to 4 units. And are you going ignore the Defensive Adjutants, Crestless recoil damage, or just equiping shields?

Aside from the Blow and prowess skills, what abilities are so vital that losing an ability slot is a really hampers a unit? There's no other ability that would have made the Leonie in that example deal even close to damage that the consistent crits from Defiant Crit + Wrath provides. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[msterforks]

5 hours ago, eclipse said:

If you're grinding, then this becomes somewhat moot.

My only contribution is to seriously consider a dancer within your own house.  The re-introduction chapter sucks that much.

Claude gets many goodies to help out in that chapter. It's not really that bad as long as Byleth doesn't make questionable career path choices.

That being said, I had a Sniper Leonie and Dancer Hilda who safely chipped away at the enemy count one at a time, which saved some turns. It was supposed to be a fun build but it turned into something nice.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

If Raphael is gonna be a punchy boi, you definitely want to spend time as Brigand for Death Blow.

Also if you're going Pegasus Byleth, may as well go all the way to Falcon, it's a very good class.

Lysithea would rather be a Bishop (White Magic Uses x2, Heal+10), Warlock offers her nothing aside from Bowbreaker through mastery.

Hilda should go Brigand too, if you're having her as a Warrior than she can definitely access it.

Probably want a dedicated dancer, too. I don't imagine Petra will see much combat. And if ahe does, you're losing valuable dancing steps. Maybe make Ferdie a Dancer (easier access to Move+1) and Petra a Wyvern (boon in Flight).

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't see any mention of positioning combat arts like Reposition and Draw Back. Draw Back is a must for any mage since they'll never fill up their combat art slots anyway (and it's almost free assuming you go through Monk), but I'd personally recommend a positioning combat art for everyone who doesn't have Dance anyway.

[Shadow Mir]

@ OP, I would seriously recommend benching Raphael and recruiting a superior unit - by which I mean literally anyone else - and using them instead. I wasn't impressed by him in hard mode...

13 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Obtaining B Rank Authority is a non issue by the time Blessing shows up and applies to 4 units. And are you going ignore the Defensive Adjutants, Crestless recoil damage, or just equiping shields?

Aside from the Blow and prowess skills, what abilities are so vital that losing an ability slot is a really hampers a unit? There's no other ability that would have made the Leonie in that example deal even close to damage that the consistent crits from Defiant Crit + Wrath provides. 

I don't know about you, but I think there's a fuckton of abilities that I'd rather use over Defiant whatever. Like HP +5, which is minimal investment to obtain, and is always helpful to have - the exact opposite of the Defiant abilities, which require a lot of investment to obtain due to pretty much all being tied to Master tier classes (with the sole exception being Defiant Str, which is tied to an advanced class that is not only gender locked, but inferior to the other advanced sword classes anyhow), and force me to have my units walk about with both feet in the grave for them to "help".

[Random Schemer]

All right, I read every post and I made some decisions, but I also have new questions.
-Byleth won't have Reason Prowess, I'll give her Death Blow instead. (And keep her Enlighted One for Restore)
-Can I ask for a good set of skills for Claude and Seteth? The latter will substitute Ferdinand... maybe
-Lysithea will be a Dark Knight with Hit +20 instead of Defiant Magic (I'm surprised... she's THAT inaccurate on maddening)
-Commander: "Nullifies instant death effects, status effects, and movement effects, and greatly reduces damage from enemy gambits"
So... skill debuff count as "status effect"... I didn't know that. I guess Seal Speed is rather useless then. Death Blow is a 
good alternative? 
-I really want to use my big boy Raphael... but it seems he's the only one "decent" in a group of good characters. However, if I use
him, he will be a Grappler with Fierce Iron Fist
-As for Leonie... I changed my mind: Death Blow is (again) better, especially for the accuracy. What can I choose over Defiant Speed?
-Petra will be a Wyvern Lord with Axes and... should I replace Lethality with lancebreaker? (Useful for even more avoid). I also have 
an empty slot without Sword Avoid +20. Alternatives?
-Grappler Felix with Fierce Iron Fist looks good. Skill set: Brawling Prowess Lv.5, Bow Prowess Lv.3/4 (I tend to use bows with Felix even 
if I prefer Grappler), Brawl Critical +10, Death Blow and... Hit +20?
- I'll drop Cyril, beacause... I, Random Schemer, have a dream: DANCER LORENZ. 😎 He has a profiency in riding for Movement +1 and he's mediocre
for combat in maddening.
I'll have to grind a lot... but as long as it is for intermidiate classes is fine.

[Shadow Mir]

51 minutes ago, Random Schemer said:

-I really want to use my big boy Raphael... but it seems he's the only one "decent" in a group of good characters. However, if I use
him, he will be a Grappler with Fierce Iron Fist

Calling him "decent" is a MASSIVE overstatement, considering he's going to get doubled by everything and their grandma forever and has poor stats in a lot of parameters.

51 minutes ago, Random Schemer said:

-Grappler Felix with Fierce Iron Fist looks good. Skill set: Brawling Prowess Lv.5, Bow Prowess Lv.3/4 (I tend to use bows with Felix even 
if I prefer Grappler), Brawl Critical +10, Death Blow and... Hit +20?

I don't see Brawl Crit +10 coming into play, like, ever. At least, not unless you stick exclusively to gauntlets, which I wouldn't recommend, considering gauntlets are... not that great, to put it lightly (IMO, at least).

51 minutes ago, Random Schemer said:

- I'll drop Cyril, beacause... I, Random Schemer, have a dream: DANCER LORENZ. 😎 He has a profiency in riding for Movement +1 and he's mediocre
for combat in maddening.

Good luck with that, considering Lorenz has shit for charm (3 base and 35% growth). You WILL need it.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Random Schemer said:

-Can I ask for a good set of skills for Claude and Seteth? 
-Lysithea will be a Dark Knight with Hit +20 instead of Defiant Magic 
-As for Leonie... I changed my mind: Death Blow is (again) better, especially for the accuracy. What can I choose over Defiant Speed?
-Petra will be a Wyvern Lord with Axes and... should I replace Lethality with lancebreaker? (Useful for even more avoid). I also have 
an empty slot without Sword Avoid +20. Alternatives?
- I'll drop Cyril, beacause... I, Random Schemer, have a dream: DANCER LORENZ.

-For Claude I'd recommend Bow Prowess, Death Blow, Hit +20, Strength +2, and Authority Prowess. For Seteth I'd recommend Lance Prowess, Death Blow, Swordbreaker and optionally Alert Stance+ and Battalion Wrath if you want another dodgetank. 

-In my experience Lysithea hit rates are fine aside from the early game thanks to a substantial amount of Magic Battalions giving Hit. If you want to fix her earlygame accuracy, I'd unlock her budding Talent since Soulblade is going to be much more accurate than Miasma due to base accuracy of swords.

-I'd honestly say to keep Defiant Speed since it works rather well with Darting Blow. But if you don't want to keep it, I'd recommend Hit +20 since Leonie is usually going against really speedy enemies, so the extra accuracy is nice. 

-I'd give Perta Bow Prowess as an option so she's less liable to get hit by Axebreaker enemies. Battalion Wrath can also do wonders on her since she doesn't plan on being hit anyways.

-Lorenz is a decent choice for a dancer, espically considering he shows up for Chapter 13 rather quickly. Though do keep in mind you may have to invite him for ~5 Tea Parties since his charisma is rather low and you need 14 Charsima to consistently win.

Some miscellaneous tips I can offer:

•Have Ingrid, Flayn, and Alosis Adjutant Felix, Seteth, and Leonie respectively. Those specific units will increase the attack of units, up to 3 Attack at A Rank as well as add +10 Hit and Avoid.

•Make sure to cook up Bullheads every week. It gives +1 Speed for every meal, and can stack all the way to +4 Speed. If recommend cooking the Defensive Fish for chapters 2 and 3 though since they're easier to get.

•Have your Dancer consistently do Stable Duty every week really helps to reach A+ since it's 12 Riding Exp at minimum with boon. I'd also recommend doing the same with Dodge tanks afterwords to reach Alertstance +.

•Rallies really help in the earlygame, so don't be afraid to use Ignatz for a time soley for his ability. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by LoneRecon400

[Shadow Mir]

9 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

•Have your Dancer consistently do Stable Duty every week really helps to reach A+ since it's 12 Riding Exp at minimum with boon. I'd also recommend doing the same with Dodge tanks afterwords to reach Alertstance +.

Speaking of which, does having an up arrow for a group task actually affect skill experience gain, or only the chance of perfects?

[LoneRecon400]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

Speaking of which, does having an up arrow for a group task actually affect skill experience gain, or only the chance of perfects?

The chance of getting prefects. 

You gain the same amount experince regardless of if they have an arrow or not.

12/14/16 for units with a boon

8/10/12 for normal units

4/6/8 for units with a bane

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Calling him "decent" is a MASSIVE overstatement, considering he's going to get doubled by everything and their grandma forever and has poor stats in a lot of parameters.

I don't see Brawl Crit +10 coming into play, like, ever. At least, not unless you stick exclusively to gauntlets, which I wouldn't recommend, considering gauntlets are... not that great, to put it lightly (IMO, at least).

Raphael is like Lysithea. He'll gain just three stats (HP, Str, Dex) and it's the only three he needs to function in the war master line. Try to make him any other class or use any other type of weapon and he will underperform other physical units.

Also brave weapons (including gauntlets) are king on maddening. Burst down enemies without counterattack. Good for the same reason spamming combat arts with other weapon types are good. But unlike combat arts, Each strength level up is another two points. And with war master's +20 crit he sees 20-30 crit on all attacks late game. Brawling prowess also provides a healthy boon of up to +20 avoid while the brawler line has less movement penalty in forests so his enemy phase is far from helpless. Even getting doubled by mages he won't be one rounded like Lysithea is by any physical unit since his HP is ludicrously high (expect at least 60 by Chapter 13). I've witnessed Raph on Hard and Maddening, he does exactly what he needs to, no more no less.

53 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

-In my experience Lysithea hit rates are fine aside from the early game thanks to a substantial amount of Magic Battalions giving Hit. I'd say if you want to fix her earlygame accuracy, I'd unlock her budding Talent since Soulblade is going to be much more accurate due to base accuracy of swords.

Good god, no. Magic battalions were specifically designed to not provide hit as often or near as much as physical battalions. Here are ALL the battalions that provide hit and at least one point of magic attack (max level stats). Might be missing DLC stuff because nobody is compiling that info, and speaking for myself I don't have the DLC.

• Seiros Magic Corp: Hit +5 (authority D)
• Kingdom Magic Corp: Hit +5 (authority D)
• Kingdom Priests: Hit +5 (authority B)
• Blue Lion Magic Corp: Hit +5 (authority A)
• Alliance Sages: Hit +5 (authority B)
• Supreme Armored Corp: Hit +5 (authority C) (Blue Lions only/Dimitri post time skip)
• Hevring Prayer Troops: Hit+5 (authority B)
• School of Sorcery Soldiers: Hit +20 (authority C) (Blue Lions only/Gilbert paralogue)
• Gloucester Knights: Hit +15 (authority B) (Lorenz Paralogue)
• Ordelia Sorcery Corp: Hit +20 (authority B) (Ferdinand + Lysithea Paralogue)
• Edmund Troops: Hit +40 (authority B) (Marianne Paralogue)
• Cethlean Monks: Hit +20 (authority A) (Flayn + Seteth Paralogue)
• Essar Research Group: Hit +30 (authority E, but some sources claim B?) This is that broken online recon mission battalion I keep forgetting to try out
• Macuill Evil Repelling Co.: Hit +30 (authority A) (Manuela+Hanneman Paralogue)

This compared to the forty or so physical battalions that provide Hit. Some of these are quite good for fixing Lysithea's accuracy issues, but they're almost always B Authority and above and/or post-time skip. Those combined with Hit +20 will finally give Lysithea the 100 accuracy miasma shots she needs to stay relevant. And more importantly give her nuke spells a more respectable ~80 hit that won't force a divine pulse when you miss. 

Edit: Forgot the Macuil Evil Repelling Co. Thinking I had already listed it at the start. Regardless I mentioned it earlier as the battalion of choice for Lysithea.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Glennstavos