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[FE5] Lil' Manster – Translation and Quality-of-life Patch for Thracia 776


Miacis

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Me: *announces a new update coming soon*
Holiday celebrations: Allow us to introduce ourselves.

Wintery time-wasters activities aside, there somehow are a few more tweaks to package into that update. I'll try and aim for a release either next week, or the first weeks of January.

On 12/21/2020 at 12:26 AM, Seafarer said:

Hey, is there a reason why Meisterschwert and Meisterbogen aren't used? They're both older than Osian, so it's clearly not a matter of missing newer localisations.

Yes, there is. Those were a bit of an executive decision, owing to the fact using the Heroes names would introduce non-English names for a fairly common weapon set, something the series just... doesn't usually do. It's not really as much of a problem in Heroes where these weapons are Prfs and have unique effects (only sharing the Brave effect). But in the context of Thracia, it just didn't look right.

(There's also the fact that, due to being a different language, it would introduce a fair bit of unique letter-pairs, something we're quite limited on. Not a deal-breaker, but it doesn't help.)

I do realize it may be a bit of a contentious choice, though. 🙂

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know you've already said that the vast majority of players don't mind the patch's QoL additions but you really should consider making a 'base' patch with zero additions readily available instead of people like me requesting personal patches. This is the only complete translation patch of FE5 readily available to the public and I don't like the idea that the only readily available patch is making gameplay changes to the base game. I've seen this on numerous sites that this is the patch that gets recommended whenever anyone asks how to start playing FE5. For better or worse, FE5 is not being represented accurately. I know the vast majority of people won't notice or care but still. I might be wrong about this but I think something similar happened with the newer FE6 patch that was also making changes (though vastly more drastic) and that was later separated into two different patches. And Project Naga didn't make any changes either. This patch didn't start off as the intended default patch for FE5 as Project Exile was still easily available and recommended to people (though I don't recall if it too made QoL changes/additions to the game) so it was fine that this was a 'deluxe edition' patch of sorts but that's not the case anymore and this has become the default patch.

I appreciate the work you and many others have put into making translation patches so I'm not saying this because I think this patch is bad or anything. But purely from a preservation point of view, a 'base' patch that accurately represents FE5 as it was intended should  be readily available (including the rightfully derided 'wait command at the top of the unit menu') in my opinion.

Edited by RJWalker
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13 hours ago, RJWalker said:

I know you've already said that the vast majority of players don't mind the patch's QoL additions but you really should consider making a 'base' patch with zero additions readily available instead of people like me requesting personal patches. This is the only complete translation patch of FE5 readily available to the public and I don't like the idea that the only readily available patch is making gameplay changes to the base game. I've seen this on numerous sites that this is the patch that gets recommended whenever anyone asks how to start playing FE5. For better or worse, FE5 is not being represented accurately. I know the vast majority of people won't notice or care but still. I might be wrong about this but I think something similar happened with the newer FE6 patch that was also making changes (though vastly more drastic) and that was later separated into two different patches. And Project Naga didn't make any changes either. This patch didn't start off as the intended default patch for FE5 as Project Exile was still easily available and recommended to people (though I don't recall if it too made QoL changes/additions to the game) so it was fine that this was a 'deluxe edition' patch of sorts but that's not the case anymore and this has become the default patch.

I appreciate the work you and many others have put into making translation patches so I'm not saying this because I think this patch is bad or anything. But purely from a preservation point of view, a 'base' patch that accurately represents FE5 as it was intended should  be readily available (including the rightfully derided 'wait command at the top of the unit menu') in my opinion.

Read the thread, a vanilla patch has been in the works for a while and will be released sometime soon.

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On 1/7/2021 at 7:39 PM, RJWalker said:

I know you've already said that the vast majority of players don't mind the patch's QoL additions but you really should consider making a 'base' patch with zero additions readily available instead of people like me requesting personal patches. This is the only complete translation patch of FE5 readily available to the public and I don't like the idea that the only readily available patch is making gameplay changes to the base game. I've seen this on numerous sites that this is the patch that gets recommended whenever anyone asks how to start playing FE5. For better or worse, FE5 is not being represented accurately. I know the vast majority of people won't notice or care but still. I might be wrong about this but I think something similar happened with the newer FE6 patch that was also making changes (though vastly more drastic) and that was later separated into two different patches. And Project Naga didn't make any changes either. This patch didn't start off as the intended default patch for FE5 as Project Exile was still easily available and recommended to people (though I don't recall if it too made QoL changes/additions to the game) so it was fine that this was a 'deluxe edition' patch of sorts but that's not the case anymore and this has become the default patch.

I appreciate the work you and many others have put into making translation patches so I'm not saying this because I think this patch is bad or anything. But purely from a preservation point of view, a 'base' patch that accurately represents FE5 as it was intended should  be readily available (including the rightfully derided 'wait command at the top of the unit menu') in my opinion.

First of all, even the earliest versions of Project Exile incorporated QoL changes, namely displaying the Scroll's actual stat boosts, since in Japanese their description only reads "A holy document". Second,  a version of this patch called Lil Fiana that strips away any and all QoL additions has been in the works for months and is only waiting for the next LM update. Learn to read.

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As has already been mentioned, there is a patch called Lil' Fiana in development. You can find the announcement here. This patch will not be available until the final version of Lil' Manster, which probably won't be done until 2021 Q2-3. Why wait so long for Lil' Fiana? Because I don't want to maintain two patches for the rest of the year, so I'll just split the final LM version and revert all the QoL to get LF. (And this is also the reason why I prefer making personal patches than maintaining a fully available build.)

Quote

And Project Naga didn't make any changes either.

I mean, there are 11 bug fixes in Project Naga that I'm aware of, so idk about that. Most of those have pretty important gameplay implications, like buffing Seliph's Authority by fixing his 2-stars bug; or considerably buffing Lewyn!Ced by removing that one Speed overflow bug. (It also created some of its own bugs as well.) By comparison, almost all our QoL changes don't affect gameplay in a way that isn't "provide the player with information they could easily find online".

I'd be wary of comparing PN with PE/LM, anyways, because our communication is just completely different. PN's translation doesn't have an official script dump or much any public translation notes, but we do. So of course people will just take PN at face value, make the assumption that no liberties were taken (lol), while also pointing out that our stuff goes way too far (and it's justified, sometimes!). Same could be said about the PN fixes that no one will dig through the changelog to find, but that we proudly display front and center.

Point is, have some perspective, y'all.

-----------

In other news there's a mini update coming up soon with, most notably, the newest Heroes localization changes, and an expanded shop window, for more description room than ever before. Hopefully released this week. 🙂

Edited by Miacis
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As promised, mini update coming right up!

Here's a quick rundown of the new stuff:

- Official localizations from the recent FE Heroes update: Sara, Kia, Petrify, Iz, Ulster, Hrest, and so on.

- A couple more localization changes we had never noticed (Erinys, Condition, 1-2 range, Perlucos).

- Fixed the order of songs featured in the Sound Room, and updated the localization of some of them.

- The shop window has finally been extended. Njörun's scroll no longer breaks the shop window, and some staff descriptions were able to be expanded.

Since this is a mini update, the image gallery was not updated. But you can find the download link in the OP! Or right here, in this very post.

Lil-Manster-1.07.zip

______________________________________________________________

I realize I did say that the next update would be the last (and the release of Lil' Fiana), but considering I just made a mini-update, this got postponed to the next version.

Still, do not expect it for a while. There is a lot of script to cover, and I will not be able to start on it until around March.

______________________________________________________________

 

On 12/11/2020 at 4:39 PM, RJWalker said:

You were willing to do it before so here I am again, asking for the latest version with no extra implementations, if it's not too much trouble. 

Like, exclude everything listed in this section:

Essentially, a version with just the translation implemented. Thanks in advance in any case.

Sorry this took longer than expected. I probably shouldn't have made promises about "coming up soon" right before the holidays.

The only QoL thing that I did not remove was the Crt display, because removing that is actually kind of a pain? But everything else in that list is gone. (Other QoL changes introduced by PE can't really be changed on the go either.) Anyways, here.

Edited by Miacis
fomatting
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On 1/15/2021 at 8:04 AM, Miacis said:

Sorry this took longer than expected. I probably shouldn't have made promises about "coming up soon" right before the holidays.

The only QoL thing that I did not remove was the Crt display, because removing that is actually kind of a pain? But everything else in that list is gone. (Other QoL changes introduced by PE can't really be changed on the go either.) Anyways, here.

The announcement for Lil Fiana was buried in-between the thread with no indication on the opening post so I don't know why such unnecessary hostility ("Learn to read.") by the other users. Still, I think I'm content to wait for the proper release of that but thanks anyway.

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Yeah, linking to the relevant post probably would have been nicer. I do wish users wouldn't jump to this patch's defense for perceived slights? I'm perfectly capable of handling users who "dare" ask for Lil' Fiana stuff... because it's a pretty normal thing to ask for (especially for wiki editors and such) and not something to answer with animosity.

But all right, I understand if you'd rather wait for Lil' Fiana. 👍

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Hi there !
So I noticed something with Bow/Arch knights :
Japanese name for unpromoted is Arch Knight (アーチナイト), but your translations lists it as Bow Knight .... And the reverse is true, promoted is Bow Knight in the original (ボウナイト) while it's translated as Arch Knight .... It's really confusing, screens below in Japanese and Lil' Manster 1.07 with Selphina

fe5jp000.png

fe5jp001.png

FE5SCREEN025.png

FE5SCREEN026.png

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4 minutes ago, Eizzah said:

Hi there !
So I noticed something with Bow/Arch knights :
Japanese name for unpromoted is Arch Knight (アーチナイト), but your translations lists it as Bow Knight .... And the reverse is true, promoted is Bow Knight in the original (ボウナイト) while it's translated as Arch Knight .... It's really confusing, screens below in Japanese and Lil' Manster 1.07 with Selphina

Yeah, so that's Project Naga's naming scheme in action, here.
In JP, unpromoted cav classes are: Free Knight, Lance Knight, Axe Knight, Arch Knight
Promoted: Forrest Knight, Duke Knight, Great Knight, Bow Knight

Project Naga uses:
Sword Knight, Lance Knight, Axe Knight, Bow Knight (for all 4 weapon types)
Forest Knight, Duke Knight, Great Knight, Arch Knight (I guess because Arch is bigger than Bow. Though "Forest Knight" is kinda dumb, which is why we changed that.)

So yes, our Bow/Arch Knights are inverted compared to JP.

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Sorry for the rudeness but it's really dumb and confusing, because on the wiki they're translated litterally, so it stays Arch promotes to Bow, and it was confusing me because I'm retrieving sprites for the wiki rn lmaoooo

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Uh... I'm sorry(?). Feel free to address all complaints at BookOfHolsety for setting the pattern of prioritizing localization "sense" over the convenience of wiki editors:

Quote

arch knight and bow knight were deliberately swapped, because quite frankly it makes much more sense this way. bow knight is a better match for the other basic classes - axe knight, lance knight - with the whole "put the weapon in the class name" thing (the tellius games had the right idea on this one), while arch knight is a better fit for a superior, advanced class given the usual connotations of an arch prefix

But hey, at least now you're aware of it, and won't make the mistake anymore, hopefully. =]

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Sorry again for my rudeness

Honestly if I had more knowledge about coding I'd make an edit of PNaga to include the new localized names (Scáthach, Dalvin, Creidne, Febail ....) and change the class names to match (Arch/Bow Knight being the clearest example)

But I don't lmaooo

For now I'm busy completing the wiki with Thracia sprites (soon done with all A route + units available in both routes, will need to play B route to complete Shannam Miranda and Conomor) lul

Edited by Eizzah
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Project Naga received its last update in mid 2016. Of all the games localised before 2016, FE9/FE10 used Bow Knight for the the Tier 1 class. The GBA and DS games had variants of the bow cavalry class but used different names entirely (Nomad Trooper for FE7, Ranger for FE8 and Horseman for FE11). But both Awakening and Fates used Bow Knight for the highest tier class. So at that point, at least it was somewhat dubious what the official localisation would be in the future as Bow Knight was used for a base class twice and for the promoted class twice. However, since 2016, both Echoes and Three Houses also used Bow Knight. If the intent of the localisation patch is to follow official naming conventions, then using Bow Knight for the promoted variant is the only decision, I feel. Project Naga saying, "Well, I don't think it should be this way even though this is the most consistent official way" was a very strange decision.

I think its time for a localisation update to match the official localisation which have been pretty consistent about Bow Knight. I mean, you already chose not to use Forest Knight...

Edited by RJWalker
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On 1/20/2021 at 4:01 AM, RJWalker said:

Project Naga received its last update in mid 2016. Of all the games localised before 2016, FE9/FE10 used Bow Knight for the the Tier 1 class. The GBA and DS games had variants of the bow cavalry class but used different names entirely (Nomad Trooper for FE7, Ranger for FE8 and Horseman for FE11). But both Awakening and Fates used Bow Knight for the highest tier class. So at that point, at least it was somewhat dubious what the official localisation would be in the future as Bow Knight was used for a base class twice and for the promoted class twice. However, since 2016, both Echoes and Three Houses also used Bow Knight. If the intent of the localisation patch is to follow official naming conventions, then using Bow Knight for the promoted variant is the only decision, I feel. Project Naga saying, "Well, I don't think it should be this way even though this is the most consistent official way" was a very strange decision.

I think its time for a localisation update to match the official localisation which have been pretty consistent about Bow Knight. I mean, you already chose not to use Forest Knight...

I don't know if this helps at all, but I just want to offer a perspective from someone not related to the project.

I don't think there is a single correct answer for these two reasons:
- In Three Houses there is no non-promoted version of the bow-wielding mounted class competing for the "Bow Knight" name (not sure about the games from Awakening to Echoes)
- The Tellius games, like the Jugdral games, have an unpromoted bow-wielding knight (called "Bow Knight" in official Tellius localizations) that promotes into something else

With this in mind, "Bow Knight" is not only logical within FE5's class system (and FE4's for that matter) but also with official localizations of games that offered a similar class system.

As you say, it's certainly been translated as a higher tier class in more recent games. I just mean to say there is no clear cut answer.

Edited by gringe
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On 1/27/2021 at 1:25 PM, gringe said:

I don't know if this helps at all, but I just want to offer a perspective from someone not related to the project.

I don't think there is a single correct answer for these two reasons:
- In Three Houses there is no non-promoted version of the bow-wielding mounted class competing for the "Bow Knight" name (not sure about the games from Awakening to Echoes)
- The Tellius games, like the Jugdral games, have an unpromoted bow-wielding knight (called "Bow Knight" in official Tellius localizations) that promotes into something else

With this in mind, "Bow Knight" is not only logical within FE5's class system (and FE4's for that matter) but also with official localizations of games that offered a similar class system.

As you say, it's certainly been translated as a higher tier class in more recent games. I just mean to say there is no clear cut answer.

I just think that though it started off its localisation history as a name for the lower ranked class, its recent history of being used for the highest tier version of the class shows intent. Granted, those games don't have a lower ranked class that would require an additional name but we've seen the localisation team stick with the direct translation even in cases where it may clash with established localisation norms (such as keeping Myrmidon as the name for the Mercenary promotion in SoV). I just don't think that PN deciding something makes more sense than what the official localisation does is a valid reason to affect this translation. Personally, I don't even think PN would have kept its naming scheme if it came out today because the Bow Knight's usage is more consistent today than it was when PN was released.

Edited by RJWalker
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Setting aside the fact that "Arch Knight" is a dumb name that doesn't sound right in English** (and to all you who are going to shout about this: you only think it sounds okay because you've grown used to it from exposure to it in fan translations), I agree with gringe and with bookofholsety's localisation choice.

Modern Bow Knights are promoted classes that use more than just bows, and, importantly, don't have equivalent class lines for swords, lances and axes. Tellius is the only other part of the series that has base-class versions of sword, lance, axe and bow mounted units, so its localisation choices should be prioritised. Also, it seems inconsistent to have Sword Knight, Lance Knight and Axe Knight, but then not use "Bow Knight" for the bow-using equivalent.

Hopefully we end up getting a remake or localisation of FE4 this year to straighten this out.

**Side note: it's obviously a shortening of "Archer Knight" and nothing to do with the Arch- prefix, so I find that a pretty bad justification for making it the promoted class name. It's basically like "Forrest", the Japanese transliteration for the Hero class in FE4 -> "Forrest Knight" for promoted Sword Knights (which is also why I think "Forest Knight" was a bad choice, and am glad it's been changed to Ranger).

Edited by Seafarer
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This is a really dumb question but I kind of want to make Leif a Master Knight so he can use Meisterbogen like in FEH but the Master Knight animations are kind of broken, I was using Nightmare to change some things around. Is there any way to fix the Master Knight animations myself? there are some other classes that seem glitchy as well

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  • 3 weeks later...

Speaking of Leif in FEH, what are movement stars called in the latest version? His special skill for the Legendary version is called 'Njorun's Zeal'. Zeal should be the term used for movement stars since Njorun's Zeal replicates the effect of movement stars in granting another action to the unit.

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On 2/7/2021 at 12:14 AM, HaTr1120 said:

This is a really dumb question but I kind of want to make Leif a Master Knight so he can use Meisterbogen like in FEH but the Master Knight animations are kind of broken, I was using Nightmare to change some things around. Is there any way to fix the Master Knight animations myself? there are some other classes that seem glitchy as well

There's probably a way, but if I myself haven't even looked into it, I doubt I'd be able to teach you how do it. We do intend to fix it by the final version of Lil' Manster, so people can actually use that class properly.

On 2/27/2021 at 6:27 PM, RJWalker said:

Speaking of Leif in FEH, what are movement stars called in the latest version? His special skill for the Legendary version is called 'Njorun's Zeal'. Zeal should be the term used for movement stars since Njorun's Zeal replicates the effect of movement stars in granting another action to the unit.

We've actually considered it, but there's two factors going against it:
- the JP name of the skill in FEH is ノヴァの聖戦士 ("Njörun's Crusader"), whereas FE5 uses 行動 ("Action")
- Awakening already uses Zeal as the Critical+ skill

We went for Vigor, since:
- the galdrar skill uses the same kanji (行動) (Re-action), and Vigor is the name of the re-action galdrar.
(- it's
not like we could have called it the Canto stat...)
- it's pretty recognizable as a "stat name"

Still very much A Choice.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Small translation error. During the reunion between Eyvel and the Freeblades at the end of 24x, Finn refers to Brigid as "Bridget"

Bridget.png

Edit: Just realized that Bridget was Project Naga's translated name for her and that this might just be for continuity sakes. She was semi-recently added to FEH as Brigid though, so I feel she'd more recognized using her localized name. Understand either way.

Edited by Jam0317
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi! I've been playing the Lil Manster translation, and am loving it so far. I'm at the beginning of Chapter 4.

Out of curiosity, I recently got a Japanese 3DS, and I noticed that there is a big community for making English patches for Japanese games on the 3DS. I saw that they have Thracia in the virtual console on the Japanese eshop, so I can buy the game legitimately. Has anyone considered putting the Lil Manster translation in a CIA somehow to be patched onto the 3DS virtual console version? I am kind of a novice, so I don't know how it works, but I have successfully applied some English patches to other games (like Great Ace Attorney).

Sorry if this is discussed elsewhere, I did a search but didn't find anything.

Thank you to all who worked on this translation and project!

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  • 3 weeks later...

image.png.670d1d8351aca5c2f1716ccca547c810.png
Uhm I just saw this while finishing Thracia, and ... wouldn't it be more of a pact ?
Idk what the japanese text says, but I'd be more enclined to say it's a pact.

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