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How do people deal with Claude as an enemy?

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11 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Using Gambits on Claude directly would be highly likely to fail, unless you had a crazy amount of charm (even on normal, he has 37).

I disagree on giving Edelgard's unique classes magic - making them a half-assed hybrid class would not help much.

Byleth and your dancer will often have high enough charisma to hit him, esp. with linked attacks (snipers, mages with relics, etc.)

Why would it have to be a half assed class? It certainly could in theory kick ass. I made her into a Dark Knight last CF playthrough and she did pretty well in that. But they could make her final class have crazy mag growth pretty easily. It's a shame that her class is currently so bad. I've never finished a CF playthrough with her in it since it just sucks currently.

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5 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

Byleth and your dancer will often have high enough charisma to hit him, esp. with linked attacks (snipers, mages with relics, etc.)

Why would it have to be a half assed class? It certainly could in theory kick ass. I made her into a Dark Knight last CF playthrough and she did pretty well in that. But they could make her final class have crazy mag growth pretty easily. It's a shame that her class is currently so bad. I've never finished a CF playthrough with her in it since it just sucks currently.

Not if it keeps 5 move and abyssmal speed. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Emperor getting magic access (for thematic reasons, and to differentiate it further from other armored classes), but it wouldn't solve the class' two biggest flaws. You mentioned making Edelgard a Dark Knight, and sure she's good in that, because she has good movement (plus canto) and a respectable speed stat.

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4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not if it keeps 5 move and abyssmal speed. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Emperor getting magic access (for thematic reasons, and to differentiate it further from other armored classes), but it wouldn't solve the class' two biggest flaws. You mentioned making Edelgard a Dark Knight, and sure she's good in that, because she has good movement (plus canto) and a respectable speed stat.

Well, they could just add some movement and speed. Or maybe even give her a horse and make her a magical great knight or something. All of the Lords should be broken imo. There would be ways to make a mixed magical Edelgard OP in a complimentary way to how Claude is ridiculously OP.

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1 hour ago, Mjolnir said:

Well, they could just add some movement and speed. Or maybe even give her a horse and make her a magical great knight or something. All of the Lords should be broken imo. There would be ways to make a mixed magical Edelgard OP in a complimentary way to how Claude is ridiculously OP.

All the lords are broken. Their classes aren't (except perhaps Barbarosa, but even then it's mostly lateral from Wyvern Lord aside from the fact that you don't need to invest in skill training to get it), but their stat builds (vastly superior bases + improved level-gain rate + good growths) and relics alone ensure they're all OP.

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3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

All the lords are broken. Their classes aren't (except perhaps Barbarosa, but even then it's mostly lateral from Wyvern Lord aside from the fact that you don't need to invest in skill training to get it), but their stat builds (vastly superior bases + improved level-gain rate + good growths) and relics alone ensure they're all OP.

Sure, I meant they should all have broken classes like Claude's class. Edelgard is great as a Wyvern Lord but her end game personal class is terrible. Her relic is probably my favorite due to the galeforce effect. Soloing CF's end boss with her is fun.

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3 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

Well, they could just add some movement and speed. Or maybe even give her a horse and make her a magical great knight or something. All of the Lords should be broken imo. There would be ways to make a mixed magical Edelgard OP in a complimentary way to how Claude is ridiculously OP.

The thing is, any class could, in theory, "kick ass" if you're allowed to make whatever changes you want to it. If Swordmasters had 8 move and Swordfaire, Crit+20, and Canto, then suddenly they're broken. But that's miles away from saying "Swordmaster with Crit+20 instead of SwordCrit+10 would be broken." The point is, when people talk about "If only Emperor got Magic", the implicit assumption is that the only thing changed about the class is the ability to use spells.

Anyway, my ideal Emperor would keep 5 move, but have an actual speed stat (on-par with Wyvern Lord) and magic access. Same for Armored Lord. It wouldn't be broken (I don't really agree that Lord classes should be OP; Claude's are because IS failed to balance fliers), but it would have a niche of usefulness over other options. "Magical Great Knight" is an intriguing notion, but as Edelgard is neutral in Riding, I don't think it fits her.

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13 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

Why would it have to be a half assed class? It certainly could in theory kick ass. I made her into a Dark Knight last CF playthrough and she did pretty well in that. But they could make her final class have crazy mag growth pretty easily. It's a shame that her class is currently so bad. I've never finished a CF playthrough with her in it since it just sucks currently.

Remember the last time a good class got both axes and magic? Because I don't. Mortal Savant has Tomefaire and Swordfaire, and is still mocked as a third-rate class, so what chance does Emperor with magic have of being good???

Edited by Shadow Mir

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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The thing is, any class could, in theory, "kick ass" if you're allowed to make whatever changes you want to it. If Swordmasters had 8 move and Swordfaire, Crit+20, and Canto, then suddenly they're broken. But that's miles away from saying "Swordmaster with Crit+20 instead of SwordCrit+10 would be broken." The point is, when people talk about "If only Emperor got Magic", the implicit assumption is that the only thing changed about the class is the ability to use spells.

Anyway, my ideal Emperor would keep 5 move, but have an actual speed stat (on-par with Wyvern Lord) and magic access. Same for Armored Lord. It wouldn't be broken (I don't really agree that Lord classes should be OP; Claude's are because IS failed to balance fliers), but it would have a niche of usefulness over other options. "Magical Great Knight" is an intriguing notion, but as Edelgard is neutral in Riding, I don't think it fits her.

This is very true, which is why it's funny that some are reacting like it's not possible for a  mixed magic and armor class to be OP. If IS wanted to, they could give us an Edelgard whose final class was on par with Claude's.

I don't see why the implicit assumption should be that the class change would only involve spells. I would assume that it should involve stat boosting in mag and also imo res would be godly. Imagine an armor knight who could actually tank mages too.

I agree that mounted Edelgard doesn't feel right, even though a magical great knight class sounds interesting. I think she should get +1mv and additional growth rates in mag and res. That'd be pretty good. Added speed would be nice too.

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Remember the last time a good class got both axes and magic? Because I don't. Mortal Savant has Tomefaire and Swordfaire, and is still mocked as a third-rate class, so what chance does Emperor with magic have of being good???

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Remember the last time a good class got both axes and magic? Because I don't. Mortal Savant has Tomefaire and Swordfaire, and is still mocked as a third-rate class, so what chance does Emperor with magic have of being good???

Awakening Dread Fighters were really good, though...

58 minutes ago, Mjolnir said:

This is very true, which is why it's funny that some are reacting like it's not possible for a  mixed magic and armor class to be OP. If IS wanted to, they could give us an Edelgard whose final class was on par with Claude's.

I don't see why the implicit assumption should be that the class change would only involve spells. I would assume that it should involve stat boosting in mag and also imo res would be godly. Imagine an armor knight who could actually tank mages too.

The class could be good, sure, but IS almost certainly wouldn't just give the class boosts to Mag and Res (even if they should). More likely, they would offset the boosts by lowering other stats, like strength (why are armors so weak in this game ugh) or defense.

The perennial problem with hybrid-offense classes is that their stats either lend heavily to one or the other between magic and strength (in which case, why do you need both?), or they have middling values in both stats (limiting their damage potential on either side). Discussion of a hypothetical hybrid-offense Emperor class has to acknowledge the likelihood that it will fall into one of these two moulds.

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9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Awakening Dread Fighters were really good, though...

The class could be good, sure, but IS almost certainly wouldn't just give the class boosts to Mag and Res (even if they should). More likely, they would offset the boosts by lowering other stats, like strength (why are armors so weak in this game ugh) or defense.

The perennial problem with hybrid-offense classes is that their stats either lend heavily to one or the other between magic and strength (in which case, why do you need both?), or they have middling values in both stats (limiting their damage potential on either side). Discussion of a hypothetical hybrid-offense Emperor class has to acknowledge the likelihood that it will fall into one of these two moulds.

They do typically do stuff like that, yes. But they did give us Claude in this game, so in theory it could have been possible that they could have made her class comparable. One other reason to give us three OP lords would have been that 3H is explicitly partially based on Genealogy, which featured Sigurd, Levin and Beowulf [correction] Ares: three very overpowered characters. Granted, none were hybrid.

However, there's no reason besides tradition that a mixed class couldn't be very OP. But yeah it's moot at this point since it will never happen in 3H, but maybe in a sequel if they make one. And if they do make a direct sequel it would make sense that the Lords would be even more OP in it. Or their children / parents as the case may be.

 

Edited by Mjolnir

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2 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

which featured Sigurd, Levin and Beowulf: three very overpowered characters.

Umm...what?

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24 minutes ago, SpiceMan said:

Umm...what?

Oops, lol, I meant Ares. One of those blond dudes on a horse. Whichever! 😉 ...Although I guess Eldigan would fit more with the other two, but he's not a PC.

Edited by Mjolnir

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10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The perennial problem with hybrid-offense classes is that their stats either lend heavily to one or the other between magic and strength (in which case, why do you need both?), or they have middling values in both stats (limiting their damage potential on either side). Discussion of a hypothetical hybrid-offense Emperor class has to acknowledge the likelihood that it will fall into one of these two moulds.

Can you name some example of the second type? The only one i can think off is Robin, wich is not exactly bad.

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3 hours ago, Flere210 said:

Can you name some example of the second type? The only one i can think off is Robin, wich is not exactly bad.

Robin is strong because Awakening has high growths all-around, generous EXP, and unlimited leveling.

For cases of fairly balanced offenses, I was thinking Fates units like Basara!Hayato, DarkKnight!Odin, or Priestess!Sakura.

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15 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Awakening Dread Fighters were really good, though...

And they were DLC. 

16 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

The problem with hybrid classes in general is that most units tend to be lopsided towards one or the other of strength or magic, or if not, they're middling in both, which results in Master of None. The axe/magic combo is especially bad since most units that use axes tend to have high strength growths and low magic growths, which makes the likes of Malig Knight and Oni Chieftain unappealing (as if the fact that the base classes for both being physically inclined wasn't damning enough). Not helping matters is the fact that new weapons start at E rank...

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Byleth Windsweep

Bows, either Curved Shot, or use a Bow Knight if you have one

Use units with increased magic range, either from S rank, or the legendary staffs

 

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