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Quiyonce

Issues with Rise of Skywalker? *Spoilers*

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I saw Ep 9 recently and was pleasantly surprised despite not going in with high hopes due to the reviews. It wasn't a perfect movie but I don't understand such low readings. The few reviews I read were pretty vague and didn't go into details about the actual flaws. 

 

For those who've seen it, what was your thoughts on this film? What were your biggest issues? And how big of a fan are you of the franchise?

Edited by Quiyonce

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s'okay. I had a laundry list of plotholes and odd narrative beats laid out for me that does make the movie seem pretty bad on paper. But honestly if people nitpicked movies in general the way folks on the internet nitpick star wars, no movie would be generally liked more than disliked. 

Rise of Skywalker was just okay. I thought some scenes were good, others poor. Some jokes landed, others did not. Some dramatic scenes are very engaging, but the movie is very thematically confused in what those scenes are supposed to communicate. I think the movie's ensemble cast is far too large to give them all purposeful screentime, but the main characters have interesting dynamics to explore which is the most important thing. Some actually bad movies don't need to be talked about to realize that they're bad. You can just feel it, right there in the movie theater. And I didn't feel that for a moment in this movie.

Edited by Glennstavos

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As a Star Wars fan I'll give the movie either a 5 or a 6 out of ten. Not a critical failure, but not that good. What harmed the film the most is the lack of planning behind the scenes. There was no plan to bring back the emperor being the biggest point, and it shows. The movie jumps from planet to planet in quick succession with little breathing room. It being a remake of Return of the Jedi doesn't help matters. The action scenes were decent, but nothing breathtaking. 

I attribute the harsher reviews from to those that heavily supported The Last Jedi upset that the movie didn't go in the direction they wanted to/ undoing plot points from the previous movie. Funny enough that is what some fans felt like going from 7 to 8. The circle is now complete.

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Some actually bad movies don't need to be talked about to realize that they're bad. You can just feel it, right there in the movie theater. And I didn't feel that for a moment in this movie.

That's how I felt during The Last Jedi. I don't remember what moments exactly gave me that feeling but I do remember my negative emotions in the theater, similar to Batman v Superman. I definitely didn't get that with Rise of Skywalker.

40 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

There was no plan to bring back the emperor being the biggest point, and it shows. The movie jumps from planet to planet in quick succession with little breathing room.

I agree, the pacing did feel all over the place at times. I really wish we could see what this trilogy would be like if it had one director and one artistic direction. The disconnect is definitely there but it was never severe enough for me to take me out of the film.

I'm honestly not mad about Palpatine. I thought it was weird for Snoke to die the way he did in the first place and I think Palpatine was still a better villain than Kylo Ren could be.

I have seen some opinions that since they did bring the emperor back that both halves of the dyad should have died to balance the force out of the Palpatine and Skywalker bloodlines. And while I see why Disney would not want to kill off their largest female Jedi, I can't help but think it might have made more a better film.

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I feel like generally the individual scenes in RoS are fairly good and there's nothing really wrong with the acting, but the "big picture" narrative is a complete mess, which actually reflects my feelings on the entire new trilogy, come to think of it.

I enjoyed watching the movie but I wouldn't consider it like, good, at least not by any objective measure.

My thoughts on the whole bringing back Palpatine thing are that it really reminds me of Advent Children bringing back Sephiroth. That is to say, I think it would've been better to just let him stay dead honestly. That said, at least in Palpatine's case, he was just fine if one is to take him being present in the movie as a given. He does his creepy evil manipulative space wizard thing well enough, like always. There's not really a whole lot more to ask for from him.

I realize there's really no good way around this due to Carrie Fisher's untimely passing, but it was also really obvious to me that Leia's scenes were all repurposed video intended for different contexts. It was odd to watch, but I don't exactly hold it against them 'cause I'm not really confident any of the alternatives would've been that much better.

Overall, I think this trilogy really would've benefited from being planned out from start to finish at least to some degree before production began. As it is, the fact that it wasn't is, um... Very evident.

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As someone who's never been much of a Star Wars fan Rise of Skywalker is actually my favorite Star Wars movie. That said, it definitely has plenty of dumb stuff. Lots of crazy coincidences and Rey being a Palpatine is most certainly a retcon. But I also found myself not really caring much about the dumb stuff.

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1 hour ago, Topaz Light said:

I realize there's really no good way around this due to Carrie Fisher's untimely passing, but it was also really obvious to me that Leia's scenes were all repurposed video intended for different contexts. It was odd to watch, but I don't exactly hold it against them 'cause I'm not really confident any of the alternatives would've been that much better.

I read that Rose was also supposed to have more of a presence/character arc in Ep. 9, but it would've been with Leia...and there's really nothing that can be done there besides changing even more of a movie that already doesn't have the best narrative flow. 

1 hour ago, Florete said:

As someone who's never been much of a Star Wars fan Rise of Skywalker is actually my favorite Star Wars movie. That said, it definitely has plenty of dumb stuff. Lots of crazy coincidences and Rey being a Palpatine is most certainly a retcon. But I also found myself not really caring much about the dumb stuff.

My roommate is much more into the universe than I am and she told me 'I want silly and dumb space adventures and that's what I got.' I think the film is a lot more enjoyable if you don't take it too seriously. And I think the film has enough campiness that it's not taking itself too seriously as well. I'm not sure why more hardcore fans of the franchise like to excessively criticize and analyze these movies so much.

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definitely not the best stars wars by a long shot, but what got annoying for me was the amount of fake outs that were shoved in, especially in the end scene. kylo and rey 'died' like 4 times.  

 

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I think its the best of the three new trilogy movies. That has just as much to do with the other two movies as with this one but still. 

Rise of Skywalker is a little dumb but its a fun kind of dumb. Its a mess and you can see the troubled production but the end result is enjoyable enough. I would dock points for the movie suddenly dragging in Palpatine to replace the existing villains but the First Order was always a terrible bunch of villains anyway. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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Damn near everything. 

From the nonsense revival of Palpatine, to the terribly thought out plot, to Rey's ridiculous Mary Sue powers this movie was a massive flop. Just as bad, if not worse, than The Last Jedi.

Really, this whole trilogy has just felt like a huge waste of time. My advice? Stick to The Mandalorian or Jedi Fallen Order if you want quality Star Wars entertainment.

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Ok, here goes. This is gonna feel very negative so let me say that I still rank this movie above the Phantom Menace, but not Attack of the Clones. I'm gonna start with going through the movie from beginning to end and any thoughts I had on specific parts.

The title crawl is the worst title crawl in any star wars movie. You don't bring back your main villain offscreen, who, by the way, we last saw exploding 3 movies ago. Not only does he come back offscreen, but he somehow sends a galactic text message to tell all the exposition-bots- I mean, side characters- what the goal of the characters will be. 

Palpatine telling Kylo Ren that it was him all along who made Snoke and controlled everything is a crappy, lazy answer for why everything's been happening. They're basically telling us that something was happening all along but we, and the characters in the movie, were just too dumb to see it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo Ren to kill Rey, and then he tells him to bring her to him, then to kill her again, then she comes to him, then he wants her to kill him, then he sucks her soul out like a dementor... he changes his mind like 100 times throughout the course of the movie for what he actually wants to do. This movie feels like it was written by hundreds of people instead of just 2, and nobody bothered to check to see if the stories were coherent. 

The hyperspace jumping was actually pretty cool. No complaints there. It was a fun use of the tools the writers had available, and we also got a nice moment between Poe/Finn and Chewie.

Rey training was essential for this movie to have for people like me to stop complaining about her not knowing anything about proper lightsaber combat. 

The maguffin hunt for the Wayfinder is, well, a maguffin hunt. A complete waste of time that cost about 2/3 of the movie's runtime. 

On the first sandy planet we get Lando, which is nice. We also get more of Rey and Kylo's force connection. This was one of the most interesting parts of the movie for me. I really like how as we get closer to the climax their relationship starts to actually start warping spacetime. The force is weird. Then there's also Finn happening to be force sensitive, which he doesn't tell Rey, and which could have and should have been explored more in the movie. If I had the opportunity to reorganize the trilogy his force sensitivity would have been a thing in Last Jedi.

Now, Force Healing. It was introduced in the Mandalorian, and wasn't a huge issue then, but now that both Rey and Kylo can do it, there's a lot of questions and not a whole lot of answers. My initial theory was that it was Darth Plageuis's ability, but then you have to ask how baby Yoda or Rey were able to do it if it was a sith ability. If it was also a jedi ability, why didn't Obi Wan use it to save Qui Gon? Why didn't Luke use it to save Vader? Why didn't Obi Wan or Yoda use it to save Padme? This is why you don't introduce a concept like this. Death now has no weight and no meaning now that every death could have been prevented. 

Speaking of prevented deaths, we now arrive at the fake-out death of Chewbacca. The first issue would be that force-lightning is a high-level sith ability and not something you inherit through blood, since Dooku can use it as well as Palpatine, so Rey accidentally using it isn't exactly that plausible. What's even less plausible is there being a second transport that we just didn't see that Chewbacca was really in. The writers didn't even spend five minutes on this, or they're actually so stupid that they can't either kill Chewie off or find another way for him to have survived. I legitimately thought that he just survived the crash, but then the writers called me stupid again. 

Then we go to that snowy planet, and there's another fake-out death with 3PO. One fake-out death was insulting, and two is infuriating. The only other thing I really have to talk about from this planet is Hux being the spy. They stole this from themselves with Rebels. It was revealed the same way and the characters are the same. I won't spoil who it is in Rebels but it's more lazy writing. 

Then there's the death star planet. Kylo v. Rey was probably my favorite part of the movie. I love that the two of them are really visibly tired, and I love the parallels between this fight and Anakin v. Obi Wan in Revenge. Leia's last act being killing her son is a little weird, but I'm not gonna talk about it because we're now at 3 death fake-outs and I'm honestly getting tired.

Leia was a jedi! And she had a premonition that if she became a Jedi then her son would die. So, she didn't become a jedi, and her son died twice. Well, that didn't check out.

Then we reach the end. Poe fails again, so I guess his character arc isn't gonna have an end, since they just decided to repeat what they did in Ep. 8. Kylo fights the Knights of Ren, who were criminally underused. They only appeared just now, and because of that, it feels like they only existed to give Kylo a cool fight, sort of like General Grevious in Revenge. Also like General Grevious, they'll probably become beloved in the books and tv shows to follow. 

Palpatine then uses force lightning to take out the entire fleet, which begs the question- why the hell does he need a fleet of his own in this movie or in ROTJ, if he can just do this? It's just another example of this movie having no respect for the magic system that it's working with. 

I didn't realize all you needed to beat Palpatine was two lightsabers and a motivational speech. We should have sent Ashoka after him immediately after Revenge. 

Then we have the Romeo and Juliet ending, which is cliche, but I didn't care about Reylo or Rey-Finn or Finn-Poe so it doesn't bother me much.

Then the ending-ending. First, Rey buried Anakin's saber in the sand. He'll just love that. Second, she committed identity fraud.

 

Now that that giant plot commentary is over, I just want to quickly gloss over everything else. The music was great as usual, and the CGI was variable.

My biggest problem with this movie in the end is that it completely invalidates Anakin's story. It makes the first 6 movies a story about a guy who almost did something. Anakin was my favorite character since I was 6 years old and they've not only taken away his Palpatine kill, but they've said that he could have force healed his wife. Revenge of the Sith, which is my favorite movie of all time, is broken by this movie, which is why I've decided that I'm just not gonna acknowledge this new trilogy. 

Force Awakens was decent, the Last Jedi had excellent ideas executed poorly, and The Rise of Skywalker is a disgracefully rushed, jumbled ending to the saga.

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I think the biggest issue with the whole trilogy is that they spend far too much time correcting the movie that came before and that in each case they massively over corrected. 

The prequels were controversial and different from the original trilogy so the Force Awakens did everything it could to distance itself from the prequels and assure everyone it was more like the original trilogy. This is why we're back to rebels vs stormtroopers again despite the heroes by definition not being rebels anymore since the Empire got overthrown. If anything its the First Order that's the rebellion. Politics being such a supposed problem in the prequels is probably why the existence of the New Republic goes entirely ignored. The end result is a scene for scene remake of A New hope that was well received, but also got criticized for being a remake. 

The response to A Force Awakens being so samey was to get real wacky in The Last Jedi. Everything needed to be subverted. Luke's a grumpy hobo, the Maverick is wrong, Snoke is a complete loser and nothing matters. The new direction had its fans but its also the point the new trilogy got divisive. 

And the Rise of Skywalker responds to the fans being upset by undoing pretty much everything The Last Jedi said while also stuffing itself full of fanservice to apologize to the fans that got grumpy about the last movie. 

Its almost as if the trilogy was made by a kinda soulless corporation instead of stemming from a single vision. Each time they took what didn't work and spend way too much time addressing it. Lame as it would be the trilogy could just have been a scene for scene remake of the original movies like The Force Awakens intended, and they could also have stuck to their guns and maintained the themes of The Last Jedi. The fact that they try and discard both routes makes it all feel disjointed and wastes time the movies could have spend on other things. 

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In a nutshell:

- There's only one way the movie could've ended.  They advertised it with "Supreme Leader Kylo Ren".  That, and Disney princesses never die.
- It felt like someone in planning decided that they wanted certain scenes to happen (like, "let's have Rey and Kylo have a long fight in a setting that's totally different than any other Star Wars" - hence the battle on Endor).
- This isn't the time to introduce yet more characters who may have interesting backstories (that one platoon of former Stormtroopers).
- The new trilogy tried to mirror the old trilogy.  But I don't want to watch the same story.

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Didn't see the movie, but I read the movie leaks myself before the movie came out (JJ's production company, Bad Robot, kind of has a history with leaks showing up) and listened others reacting to them as well as their thoughts on the movie when it came out. Seems like the leaks were the JJ cut as there's some stuff that's left out in the final release (pretty relevant stuff actually according to my judgement and of a leaker of another story who talked about the studio meddling). Tho his cut also doesn't explain Palpaspleen's return and just handwaves it. It's a real mess (quality wise as well as it's development cycle) and people pointing out the crap in it keeps on worsening it.

A lot of what I have to say are from "leaks", but some of the stuff really does make sense and the people who covered them said the leakers were legitimate based on previous cases involving people involved being true. From what I read of "leaks" concerning the situation at Lucasfilm and Disney, there was a lot of studio meddling that "wanted to please everyone" to the point that the yes-man JJ Abrams himself felt like a puppet. Not only catering to the people who disliked TLJ, but also those who liked it or at least the Reylo parts of that movie. Not a bad idea. Problem is... It's a corporation that's doing it. So you can imagine how soulless and messy it is.

Originally the movie had supposedly George assisting Abrams in writing the movie's narrative which involved The Son from The Clone Wars cartoon portrayed by Matt Smith (the Eleventh Doctor from Doctor Who) who in early 2019 confirmed he's no longer involved with the project. Disney felt the villain was obscure and that draft was scrapped. Some elements of this idea does make sense with what was given in the final product as they could've been leftovers from the intial draft: the dagger mcguffin and the Dagger of Mortis; the Sith cultists worshipping someone seems pretty relevant as The Son is a godlike Sith figure.

Other cuts of the movie according to leaks angered test audiences and Disney CEO Bob Iger himself. It was supposed to be 3 hours long near the end of the development cycle (this was supposedly the JJ cut; according to a leak JJ wanted TROS to be 2 movies from when he started working on the current version of the movie, but the greedy mouse promised a trilogy, not a 4-part movie saga), but the end result is a 2h 30min-ish movie that was decided upon behind Abrams' back among many more other things.

KK should've had people analyze TLJ's script before they started production to see the mess for it really was. Then Abrams wouldn't have had to come in to "fix" mistakes (I love how in interviews he plays a nice guy towards RJ, but in the movie he's sniping at him and TLJ). Doesn't help that RJ is a massive douche in response to his movie's criticism. Also, Bob Iger didn't really care as long as he's making money and really stepped in after Solo bombed at the box office (production issues ramped up the budget because after 80% of the movie was completed the directors got fired and they started over) only to really see the mess Lucasfilm was actually in.

Interesting tidbit. This is only a leak, but one that makes a lot of sense. There was supposed to be a massive scene in the end involving force ghosts, but this was cut out of the movie and edited over because ghosts in cinema are banned in Gina. What we got were voices. Also, force ghost blue hue cut out as well (looking at you Luke). All for Gina's box office failure. EDIT: and the edited out lesbian kiss scene

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Also Lando trying to get into the pants of a woman over 40 years younger than him? Yikes. 

She's his daughter according to some book they released to coincide with the release of TROS. At least that's the official explanation. In the leaks there was a scene where they find out she's his daughter, but this seems to have been cut out from what was the JJ cut. Also, I don't know if this was in the movie, but in the leaks there was kind of a racist joke about Lando's child being kidnapped and forced into the First Order as a child soldier and then the crew stares at Finn who was also kidnapped as a child and forced into the First Order. There aren't only 2 blacks in the SW universe goddamn it.

At least I've gained appreciation for John Boyega and Oscar Isaac as actors. I also like how John is being passive aggressive about SW and Disney as well as him stirring up the crazy ones among Reylos. My favorite quote from him "I ain't getting Disney+'d"

I have my issues with JJ as a filmmaker, but I do legitimately think he's an unpolished diamond. He needs someone to help him with the scripts and he can just stick to directing action scenes. He also seems really nice and gets along well with his actors according to the people that have worked with him on his movies. If only people in Hollwood attempted to cover their weaknesses with other talents instead of trying to jack of all-trades it

Edited by redlight

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3 minutes ago, redlight said:

She's his daughter according to some book they released to coincide with the release of TROS. At least that's the official explanation. In the leaks there was a scene where they find out she's his daughter, but this seems to have been cut out from what was the JJ cut. Also, I don't know if this was in the movie, but in the leaks there was kind of a racist joke about Lando's child being kidnapped and forced into the First Order as a child soldier and then the crew stares at Finn who was also kidnapped as a child and forced into the First Order. There aren't only 2 blacks in the SW universe goddamn it.

In some leaks I heard Lando supposedly would have a kidnapped child and that's why he chose to remain on that dessert planet but the movie itself doesn't even mention Lando has any sort of kid, let alone a forcefully conscripted one. If that leak was true then that plan either got scrapped or extremely well hidden. 

Also it might be because Lando is kinda sleazy in general, but the way he adressed her sounded less then fatherly. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I had my fun with the movie. I can semi ignore the things that don't make sense such Palpatine puling out a giant planet destroying army out of nowhere and appreciate the things I did like. As before I like the main 3, the Rey/Kylo fight with pretty cool and so was the new first order bad guy. Palpatine's actor also did the same great job he always did.

However Palpatine's return has a bit of a problem in the fact that it swallowed up the entire movie and caused very few things from the last two movies to actually matter. The first order has been reduced to a complete afterthought because they simply don't matter compared to the giant army that Palpatine conjured up. 

that might not be too big of a issue if Palpatine himself did't decide to be a big letdown himself too. lightning storm aside he did't get to do very much. Yet another force lightning showdown like he has done 3 times already. I remember him having cool combat scenes episode 3. He has his force lighting, but he also had a lightsaber and he even threw chunks of democracy at Yoda. Here he is just completely stationary and it content with just more force lightning. The entire Rey vs Palpatine fight ended up being a total bore.

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Against my better judgment, i'm going to comment in a Star Wars movie thread.

It's incredibly messy and Rey being a Palpatine pisses me off because i loved that she was just a nobody in The Last Jedi. Star Wars fans have a weird obssession with wanting every powerful Force wielder to be related to someone (i blame the old EU and it's thousands of Skywalkers for this) and imo, that'd just make the universe feel a lot smaller. But nah, Disney wanted to plese people who didn't like The Last Jedi so Rey's a Palpatine now. Was it worth it, Reddit?

Is it the worst Star Wars movie? Lmao no. This movie is still infinetly better than The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, two movies that make me feel dead inside. Anyone who says the Sequels is worse than the Prequels is lying to themselves. I mean, ok Revenge of the Sith is better than The Rise of Skywalker but that's it.

18 hours ago, Topaz Light said:

Overall, I think this trilogy really would've benefited from being planned out from start to finish at least to some degree before production began. As it is, the fact that it wasn't is, um... Very evident.

I will say that The Force Awakens -> The Last Jedi did feel more cohesive. There wasn't really a plan (apart from some of Lucas' ideas like hermit Luke being used) but it felt natrual. Rise of Skywalker is when the lack of a plan really became evident because it doesn't even feel like it's in the same timeline as The Force Awakens at times.

9 hours ago, Roland said:

From the nonsense revival of Palpatine

I mean to be fair, Darth Maul canonically survived being cut in half by literally being too angry to die. And that was before Disney. And the old EU had Palpatine and a few other Sith come back through soul transfer (that was a thing) so even though when you really stupid, i kinda just accepted it as "yeah Sith can come back to life if they want".

8 hours ago, Brave Lance said:

Now, Force Healing. It was introduced in the Mandalorian, and wasn't a huge issue then, but now that both Rey and Kylo can do it, there's a lot of questions and not a whole lot of answers. My initial theory was that it was Darth Plageuis's ability, but then you have to ask how baby Yoda or Rey were able to do it if it was a sith ability. If it was also a jedi ability, why didn't Obi Wan use it to save Qui Gon? Why didn't Luke use it to save Vader? Why didn't Obi Wan or Yoda use it to save Padme? This is why you don't introduce a concept like this.

I mean, if we wanna get technical, Force Healing was an EU thing for years, Disney just recanonized it.

I don't think Force Healing in a vacuum is a bad idea but it was used too much in the movie. The Force has an inherit problem in that what it can and can do is undefinied. This is especially true in the old EU. Even the classic Force Grip has stuff like "well why did no one use the Force on Grevious".

I'm not saying you're wrong but more of, this movie really brought out the inherit problems with the Force. It's a deus ex machina, always has been and always will be. 

8 hours ago, Brave Lance said:

I didn't realize all you needed to beat Palpatine was two lightsabers

Mace Windu almost killed him like this, reminder.

8 hours ago, Brave Lance said:

My biggest problem with this movie in the end is that it completely invalidates Anakin's story. It makes the first 6 movies a story about a guy who almost did something. Anakin was my favorite character since I was 6 years old and they've not only taken away his Palpatine kill, but they've said that he could have force healed his wife. Revenge of the Sith, which is my favorite movie of all time, is broken by this movie, which is why I've decided that I'm just not gonna acknowledge this new trilogy. 

Gonna argue that it actually doesn't invalidate Anakin's story. Ngl, that actually was one of my biggest fears going into the movie but for all it's problems, i felt this wasn't one of them. Anakin still killed Palpatine (Palpatine was dead, he even says it himself). He still sacrificed himself for his son. And yeah, maybe he could've Force Healed his wife. But he was decieved by the Dark Side so he didn't. Anakin's story is one of tragedy that ends in redemption. That hasn't changed in my eyes.

 

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2 hours ago, redlight said:

Other cuts of the movie according to leaks angered test audiences and Disney CEO Bob Iger himself. It was supposed to be 3 hours long near the end of the development cycle (this was supposedly the JJ cut; according to a leak JJ wanted TROS to be 2 movies from when he started working on the current version of the movie, but the greedy mouse promised a trilogy, not a 4-part movie saga).

The leak about the Millennium Falcon getting destroyed in the final battle is so shocking that I have to see it to believe it .

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20 hours ago, Mob said:

kylo and rey 'died' like 4 times

Maybe it's cause I'm very sceptical but if there's a rule that something happens to a character's soul/body when they die (in this case body poofing), I'm not gonna believe they're dead til it's shown onscreen, so while overdramatic and silly, it didn't feel like a fake out to me.

13 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Also Lando trying to get into the pants of a woman over 40 years younger than him? Yikes. 

This may be very naïve of me, but I got more of a genuine wish to help the younger generation vibe...and I think I'm gonna keep seeing it that way lol

14 hours ago, Roland said:

Rey's ridiculous Mary Sue powers

I never got the Mary Sue argument for Rey. Especially before this film. To me, the only standout was force lightning and I think that was less Mary Sue and more the creative team needing some link to Palpatine before the final reveal.

13 hours ago, Brave Lance said:

Then there's also Finn happening to be force sensitive, which he doesn't tell Rey, and which could have and should have been explored more in the

Boyega is so rightfully upset over Finn's arc. I think that's the most disappointing aspect of the film for me.

7 hours ago, redlight said:

She's his daughter according to some book they released to coincide with the release of TROS

OH THANK GOD

7 hours ago, redlight said:

At least I've gained appreciation for John Boyega and Oscar Isaac as actors. I also like how John is being passive aggressive about SW and Disney as well as him stirring up the crazy ones among Reylos. My favorite quote from him "I ain't getting Disney+'d"

Seeing the fans bring back interviews of them shitting on Reylo along with Boyega's social media episodes has been really entertaining.

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I'm going to pretend that a couple of ancient Star Wars games are canon.  (PC, name escapes me, but involves some random guy who finds out he can use the force in part 2 of that game, said character could choose to go down either side)

Light side had Force Healing.  Dark side had Force Lightning.  The Force powers in Rise of the Skywalkers weren't particularly offensive to me because of that.

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When I went to see it about a week ago with my father, we both thoroughly enjoyed it. We both also will probably not watch it again in the next 10 years. It's a good popcorn flick, like most of JJ's movies. The issue comes when you dig deeper, which if this were like, Mission Impossible, you wouldn't do because those movies are just pure popcorn flicks. Star Wars is just more than that. It's been built up to be more than that. The sheer scope of the EU proves that. So most of the time you expect more with a Star Wars movie. I feel that The Last Jedi was so close to reaching that, it just had a few key fumbles with it that completely screwed it over in the long run. If Rian Johnson had been writing the entire trilogy, or if JJ had been writing the entire trilogy, OR IF THERE WAS A PLAN FOR THE ENTIRE TRILOGY, then we probably wouldn't be in this state right now.

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

It's incredibly messy and Rey being a Palpatine pisses me off because i loved that she was just a nobody in The Last Jedi. Star Wars fans have a weird obssession with wanting every powerful Force wielder to be related to someone (i blame the old EU and it's thousands of Skywalkers for this) and imo, that'd just make the universe feel a lot smaller. But nah, Disney wanted to plese people who didn't like The Last Jedi so Rey's a Palpatine now. Was it worth it, Reddit?

Except you do still have your nobody Jedi, kinda. Finn, who was hinted at being Force sensitive, is an absolute nobody. If his arc wasn't screwed in TLJ, and ROTS, then I feel both sides of the fanbase would've been appeased. We could've had a very interesting story about how one girl seeks to cleanse her blood line of evil, and how one boy journeys through the force with no guidance and no connection to another big family. It sounds super interesting actually. And that's what annoys me most this new trilogy, the missed potential. The Force Awakens, as safe and similar as it was, opened so much up for these movies. There were plenty of plot threads hanging, and plenty of interesting routes to take them in. But then Rian comes in, resolves a few of them, then adds a few of his own, except he ignores some of the other plot threads. And that's really the issue, too much on the plate for anyone to handle. And you can see it in ROTS, most prominently imo, with the Knights of Ren. In TFA, it's supposed to be this big deal that Ben became one of the Knights of Ren, and that they're this super cool evil force that's hyper powerful. And in ROTS, since they got no development in TLJ, they just kinda feel doofy. They sorta chase our main cast around, except they never find them. And then Ben comes in and solos all of them. It's all, very anticlimactic. 

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

Even the classic Force Grip has stuff like "well why did no one use the Force on Grevious".

Technically, in the 2003 tv series Clone Wars (The Samurai Jack one, not the one getting a 7th season), Mace Windu does use the Force on General Grevious. We also see it used multiple times on him, although it's mainly only force push. Windu force grips his midsection, crushing it onto itself. I'm pretty sure that's why he coughs a lot in Episode 3, although it might just be something he does a lot in general.

I like to think that you aren't able to use the force on Grevious due to his fighting style. It's a very fast, powerful style focused on overwhelming opponents, so maybe since he takes on so many lesser Jedi, they just aren't able to use the force fast enough, or at all in able to grab him. That's mostly headcanon, and while I could point to some scenes that I'd use to support said headcanon, it's fair to not agree with it.

1 hour ago, Quiyonce said:

Maybe it's cause I'm very sceptical but if there's a rule that something happens to a character's soul/body when they die (in this case body poofing), I'm not gonna believe they're dead til it's shown onscreen, so while overdramatic and silly, it didn't feel like a fake out to me.

Plus like, half the times they were shown to die, they probably would've survived regardless.

Kylo gets stabbed by Rey with the lightsaber, except it isn't really through any major organs that would lead to him dying immediately. He could feasibly have made it back to a ship, and just use the magic healing juice of bacta. Lightsabers canonically cauterize wounds due to their heat, so it wouldn't be bleeding too much, plus he could use the force to stay alive. Vader could stay alive without his suit for hours just using the force (although that might be EU now)

Kylo falling into the pit is like, of course he's gonna survive. Since when has falling been an issue for force users? They are shown to jump extreme distances using the force, so it was pretty apparent imo that he wasn't gonna die.

The Rey one, yeah I dunno. Force transferal of remaining life force? Is that a thing? I'm fine with people being annoyed at this one, it is kinda an asspull.

6 hours ago, Sasori said:

However Palpatine's return has a bit of a problem in the fact that it swallowed up the entire movie and caused very few things from the last two movies to actually matter.

Eh, yes and no. The real importance of the last two movies was more character development, or at least that was the point in TLJ. It does kinda invalidate the main conflict of TFA, that is true, but The Last Jedi was mainly a very small-scale combat movie. While it illustrates the size of the resistance, it doesn't do so for The First Order. Although all the character development from TLJ is kinda ignored, so maybe you're onto something

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1 hour ago, Quiyonce said:

I never got the Mary Sue argument for Rey. Especially before this film. To me, the only standout was force lightning and I think that was less Mary Sue and more the creative team needing some link to Palpatine before the final reveal.

She mastered the Force with absolutely zero training and beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel-again, with absolutely zero training. She's like someone playing a Star Wars video game, and using all of the cheat codes to win. It's ridiculous. 

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3 hours ago, Roland said:

She mastered the Force with absolutely zero training and beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel-again, with absolutely zero training. She's like someone playing a Star Wars video game, and using all of the cheat codes to win. It's ridiculous. 

I'm not sure if beating Kylo really is the big achievement that beating the main villain usually is. He's certainly no Darth Vader. The point about Kylo in the Force Awakens is that under the big scary mask he's still an awkward teenager with temper tantrum's who's still in training. And didn't he also have a hole in his chest because Chewie shot him before the battle?

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4 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

Finn, who was hinted at being Force sensitive, is an absolute nobody. 

Yeah but they didn't do anything with that. Which reminds me, Finn would've been the perfect foil to Kylo Ren. A Stormtrooper nobody who discovers he's Force sensitive turns good while the Force users that comes from a family of heroes turns evil.

4 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

The Rey one, yeah I dunno. Force transferal of remaining life force? Is that a thing? I'm fine with people being annoyed at this one, it is kinda an asspull

Well the Mortis Arc in Clone Wars featured something like this. But the context and how it was used was different.

4 hours ago, Roland said:

She mastered the Force with absolutely zero training and beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel-again, with absolutely zero training. She's like someone playing a Star Wars video game, and using all of the cheat codes to win. It's ridiculous. 

Mastered the Force? Like what, a Mind Trick? Force Grip? That's all basic as fuck Force Powers. Wouldn't say she "mastered the Force". She didn't even get the Mind Trick right on her first try. Even Force Lightning doesn't count since that was more of an accident.

Oh and she beat Kylo Ren? Yeah, she did except there's an * in there because the latter got shot with a Wookie Bowcaster. Those things hurt. Kylo Ren was very clearly wounded. He also had orders to not kill her while Rey was definitely trying to kill him. They don't duel again until Rise of Skywalker and had it not been for Leia, Kylo probably would've won that. Oh btw, Rey lived on a planet of scavengers and had to learn how to defend herself. She has knowledge with melee weapons.

And if you're gonna bring up Rey fixing and flying the Falcon, literally the first thing we see Rey do is working with the insides of a Star Destroyer. Given her background, it's logical to assume she knows how ships work. As for flying, she literally says in TFA that she's flown ships before, just never offworld. 

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