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Quiyonce

Issues with Rise of Skywalker? *Spoilers*

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Given how deep of a hole that Last Jedi dug the franchise into, this movie is probably the best it could possibly be.

Was it extremely easy to make fun of? Yes.

Did I enjoy it? Surprisingly, yes.

This movie, because of the mistakes the previous movie made, had to

A) Be the last film in the Trilogy

B) Resolve as many plot threads as they could

C) Give a satisfying conclusion that would make people want to see future movies.

I did have issues with it, but most of them were things that the film couldn't realistically have done any better on. The Knights of Ren, for example, should have gotten way more build up and development. But the movie was rushed as is, so realistically, they just didn't have time. Similarly, issues with Palpatine, a lot of other characters, etc, had to give way to finishing the story.

In a perfect world, the first half of this movie would have been its own, separate film, but we can't make it four movies.

They did the best they could with what they were given, it was actually fun, so that's a plus, I give it 7/10

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10 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

We could've had a very interesting story about how one girl seeks to cleanse her blood line of evil, and how one boy journeys through the force with no guidance and no connection to another big family.

I would've really enjoyed that. That also puts Poe in a position of being the 'least useful' of the trio which definitely would've given some more interesting character dynamics.

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not sure if beating Kylo really is the big achievement that beating the main villain usually is. He's certainly no Darth Vader. The point about Kylo in the Force Awakens is that under the big scary mask he's still an awkward teenager with temper tantrum's who's still in training. And didn't he also have a hole in his chest because Chewie shot him before the battle?

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

Oh btw, Rey lived on a planet of scavengers and had to learn how to defend herself. She has knowledge with melee weapons.

Yeah, to me, the combination of Rey's background plus Kylo being emotionally and/or mentally unstable during most of their fights made all of Rey's accomplishments make sense to me.

 

Also, I know it was unintentional on Rian's part but I actually like the narrative flow of Rey's parents choosing to be nobodies to Rey choosing to take the name Skywalker at the end of Ep 9.

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6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Mastered the Force? Like what, a Mind Trick? Force Grip? That's all basic as fuck Force Powers. Wouldn't say she "mastered the Force". She didn't even get the Mind Trick right on her first try. Even Force Lightning doesn't count since that was more of an accident.

“Basic as fuck Force Powers” that still require knowledge and training to use, neither of which Rey gained neared TFA. If you seriously think someone in the Star Wars universe can just lift people up with The Force as if it was easy as lifting their finger, you’re not as familiar with the Star Wars world as you think you are.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Oh and she beat Kylo Ren? Yeah, she did except there's an * in there because the latter got shot with a Wookie Bowcaster. Those things hurt. Kylo Ren was very clearly wounded. He also had orders to not kill her while Rey was definitely trying to kill him. They don't duel again until Rise of Skywalker and had it not been for Leia, Kylo probably would've won that. Oh btw, Rey lived on a planet of scavengers and had to learn how to defend herself. She has knowledge with melee weapons.

Kylo Ren was stated to have been trained by Luke Skywalker himself and successfully staged an uprising against his order. He may not be Darth Vader, but Ren was still a somewhat skilled Sith apprentice. And knowledge with melee weapons won’t get you anywhere with a lightsaber, because wielding a metal pole and wielding a lightsaber are two very different things in Star Wars. By logic, Rey should not have won that fight against Ren, wound or no wound. But alas here we are.

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2 hours ago, Roland said:

Basic as fuck Force Powers” that still require knowledge and training to use, neither of which Rey gained neared TFA. If you seriously think someone in the Star Wars universe can just lift people up with The Force as if it was easy as lifting their finger, you’re not as familiar with the Star Wars world as you think you are.

It's funny that you mention that because the Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian uses the Force multiple times despite being a literal baby. He displays Force Grip, Force Choke, Force Heal and possibly Pyrokinesis, a very rare and advanced Force technique. All without training. Now in your initial post, you said to watch The Mandalorian for good Star Wars content and I agree, it is good. But by your logic, you should be frothing at the mouth because a literal baby with actually no training is doing far more impressive things with the Force than the adult woman who actually knows what the Force is.

Oh and in the first Star Wars movie that ever came out, Luke uses the Force to guide very fast moving torpedos down a very narrow shaft. The only other time he uses the Force in the movie is to predict where blaster shots go......from a training droid. Keep in mind that unlike Rey, Luke didn't even know what the Force was before. Compared to blowing up the Death Star, Mind Tricking a nameless grunt and lifting a few rocks is child's play.

Using the Force is about believing that you can do it. This was how it was in the OT. Do or do not, there is no try. When Yoda lifts the X-Wing from the swamp, Luke says "I can't believe it" to which Yoda replies "that is why you fail". The Force is not about going to Space Hogwarts for 20 years.

2 hours ago, Roland said:

Kylo Ren was stated to have been trained by Luke Skywalker himself and successfully staged an uprising against his order

Right so about that, The Rise of Kylo Ren series of comics actually stated that it was Snoke who destroyed Luke's Temple. It's dumb but it doesn't contradict anything as nobody actually saw it happen except Kylo, who went along with the story. So no, Kylo didn't destroy Luke's Temple.

And remember, Luke himself is actually not that strong of a Jedi when it comes to lightsaber. Even in his final duel against Vader, he was on the losing side until he drew from the Dark Side. So yeah he was trained by Luke but Luke kinda had to train himself so as far as lightsaber techniques go, I wouldn't call Luke the best teacher for that. 

2 hours ago, Roland said:

And knowledge with melee weapons won’t get you anywhere with a lightsaber, because wielding a metal pole and wielding a lightsaber are two very different things in Star Wars. By logic, Rey should not have won that fight against Ren, wound or no wound. But alas here we are.

Just because the weapon is different doesn't mean one can't transfer some skills over. It's not like Rey and Kylo are suddenly doing ninja flips out of nowhere. Now Finn doesn't have any knowledge with melee weapons and he logically gets his ass kicked. Twice.

And you don't even need to be Force Sensitive to use a lightsaber. The Mandalorians use the Darksaber all the time. And in Star Wars Rebels, Kanan trained Sabine how to use the Darksaber with wooden sticks. Wooden sticks aren't lightsabers but the skills can be passed on.

Oh and yes, a wound would very much be a big factor into how a duel goes. Especially if the wound is causing the person to bleed out. Add in the fact that Kylo was emotionally distressed from just having killed his father and there you go. A recepie for defeat. You try fighting someone while having a big, painful hole in your abdomen, see how that goes.

 

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26 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The Force is not about going to Space Hogwarts for 20 years.

The coming High Republic era movies are definitely gonna have a Space Hogwarts, calling it now.

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11 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

The coming High Republic era movies are definitely gonna have a Space Hogwarts, calling it now.

Oh of course. I don't see why it wouldn't. The Jedi Temple on Coruscant is thousands of years old.

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With idea of a setting explored little in the expanded universe gives it a good amount of breathing room. Sith hiding in plain sight, some new threat the republic has to deal with. But please, make the leadership all on the same page to avoid the current situation.

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

It's funny that you mention that because the Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian uses the Force multiple times despite being a literal baby. He displays Force Grip, Force Choke, Force Heal and possibly Pyrokinesis, a very rare and advanced Force technique. All without training. Now in your initial post, you said to watch The Mandalorian for good Star Wars content and I agree, it is good. But by your logic, you should be frothing at the mouth because a literal baby with actually no training is doing far more impressive things with the Force than the adult woman who actually knows what the Force is.

It doesn't make sense that Baby Yoda is able to use the Force at his age either, but at least he's adorable. 

Also "frothing at the mouth"? Really dude?

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Oh and in the first Star Wars movie that ever came out, Luke uses the Force to guide very fast moving torpedos down a very narrow shaft. The only other time he uses the Force in the movie is to predict where blaster shots go......from a training droid. Keep in mind that unlike Rey, Luke didn't even know what the Force was before. Compared to blowing up the Death Star, Mind Tricking a nameless grunt and lifting a few rocks is child's play.

So Rey hearing about the Force suddenly lets her use it a good as she did? I guess if I hear about fencing long enough, I guess I'll be an expert at it then.

By the way, that's also Luke's first real use of the Force. Luke would have never made that shot if he wasn't a good enough pilot as stated in the film. "It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not bigger than two meters". The Force was only supplemental to him blowing up the Death Star, not the entire cause.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Using the Force is about believing that you can do it. This was how it was in the OT. Do or do not, there is no try. When Yoda lifts the X-Wing from the swamp, Luke says "I can't believe it" to which Yoda replies "that is why you fail". The Force is not about going to Space Hogwarts for 20 years.

Believing in the Force is one thing, being skilled and trained at it is another. 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

And remember, Luke himself is actually not that strong of a Jedi when it comes to lightsaber. Even in his final duel against Vader, he was on the losing side until he drew from the Dark Side. So yeah he was trained by Luke but Luke kinda had to train himself so as far as lightsaber techniques go, I wouldn't call Luke the best teacher for that. 

Even still, having Luke's skill of lightsaber combat is still more skilled as opposed to someone who literally just picked up the weapon in the first time in their lives. 

It's like pitting a villager in Fire Emblem who has never fought before in war against a general who's fought in and lead a war for 4 years straight, and the villager wins. It makes no sense. 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Just because the weapon is different doesn't mean one can't transfer some skills over. It's not like Rey and Kylo are suddenly doing ninja flips out of nowhere. Now Finn doesn't have any knowledge with melee weapons and he logically gets his ass kicked. Twice.

And you don't even need to be Force Sensitive to use a lightsaber. The Mandalorians use the Darksaber all the time. And in Star Wars Rebels, Kanan trained Sabine how to use the Darksaber with wooden sticks. Wooden sticks aren't lightsabers but the skills can be passed on.

Jedi and Sith have a whole swordplay style both orders learn from-The Forms. Each Form is it's own specific style of swordfighting. An again, it takes training to master one of them. All Rey has at this point is fighting scavengers with a metal pole. 

A scavenger whose fighting style is essentially beating people with a staff vs an apprentice of the Sith Order that specializes in it's specific form of lightsaber combat. Again, it makes no sense.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Oh and yes, a wound would very much be a big factor into how a duel goes. Especially if the wound is causing the person to bleed out. Add in the fact that Kylo was emotionally distressed from just having killed his father and there you go. A recepie for defeat. You try fighting someone while having a big, painful hole in your abdomen, see how that goes.

That wound hurt, but it didn't cripple Kylo to the point where it put him out of commission. He still could fight.

*sigh* It's clear that you and I aren't going to agree on Rey as a whole, probably never, so for the sake of this thread not turning into a slap fight between you and me over a fictional character, I think it's best if we both do the civil thing and agree to disagree.

Edited by Roland

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Too many plot holes and too much of an attempt to trash on the Last Jedi. JarJar Abrams really messed up and gave the sequels a dissatisfying ending. I'd argue the Last Jedi at least had that one amazing scene with Luke force ghosting away, but that's it. Rise of Skywalker had no such moments for me it's just slightly less terrible than TLJ. 

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On 1/5/2020 at 2:02 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

think its the best of the three new trilogy movies. That has just as much to do with the other two movies as with this one but still. 

Rise of Skywalker is a little dumb but its a fun kind of dumb. Its a mess and you can see the troubled production but the end result is enjoyable enough. I would dock points for the movie suddenly dragging in Palpatine to replace the existing villains but the First Order was always a terrible bunch of villains anyway. 

Pretty much my feelings. I didn't watch ep eight after 7 was literally four but with Mr. Harrison Ford getting his cheeks clapped, but I still fully enjoyed this movie. There were a few jumps in logic, (such as how Palpatine's survival isn't atually explained.. Ah yes, you fell into essentially an exploding star? Ah, happens to me all the time.) but I thought it was a very good movie. That said, the only movies I watch are the Cat in the Hat movie and What's up baloon to the rescue. (Which youtube took down 😞) Generally, the bigger fans people are of the series, the more they dislike the movie, from what I can tell. 

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