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New Heroes: Heirs of Light

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

And how many units are there that do work like they do in their base game?

Less than 100%, the necessary percentage to argue that units have to work like they do in their base game.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

At the very least, it's understandable why Silver Lance is Trabant's default weapon. 

I understand that IS are currently in their scrooge phase. Where even the smallest of kindnesses are unthinkable.

Remember when "grounded in lore" meant giving Arden and Arvis interesting prf skills?

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6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

 

Bonus stats are there to make up for the fact that they don't get their Flaw neutralized.

In general, the bonus stats are worse than having an actual Asset due to the fact that 1 point is always in HP (due to it being the highest level 1 stat on every unit so far) and most units would rather have 3 points in one stat than 1 point in two stats. For example, on Ares, +3 Atk is far more valuable than +1 HP, +1 Atk, and +1 Spd.

 

yeah. but it doesn't change the fact that they are there
and to each their own. it was either a +atk ares, or a +spd ares, and by building into the neutral, helped me more. 

 

anyway the argument is getting very circular. basically if it sums down to "no ivs" well.  then. i suppose. that sucks then. 

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2 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Less than 100%, the necessary percentage to argue that units have to work like they do in their base game.

On the other hand, it's also much higher than 0%, which means it's perfectly reasonable for them to have lore references in characters, even if it is not advantageous.

 

2 hours ago, Baldrick said:

I understand that IS are currently in their scrooge phase. Where even the smallest of kindnesses are unthinkable.

Free Mythic flying dancer with unique dance skill says hi.

Astram and Brunnya say hi.

Giant piles of free summon tickets say hi.

One free unit being mediocre and suddenly they're the most miserly thing in the world ever. Okay.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

One free unit being mediocre and suddenly they're the most miserly thing in the world ever. Okay.

They are not most miserly thing ever, but I understand the disappointment. It would be nice if they at least gave him Slaying Lance. Like, imagine a Legendary or Mythic Hero that comes with a literal Ruby Sword+ and Defiant Spd 3.

Ideally, it would be best to give each Grail unit an exclusive Weapon or skill. Without it, they cannot really differentiate themselves once more units with similar stat lines come out.

Brunnya's statline is not the best, but at least she has something unique so she does not feel like Mae 2.0.

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Spoiler

 

Travant having a LUL default kit doesn't really matter unless you're a Travant fan (of which I am not). Just another unit you don't have to devote resources to aside from shards/crystals. He's also free 8K feathers and 40 blue flowers. His main fodder option (Flier Guidance) is meh at best since stacking stats is very powerful and a similar but more powerful effect can be achieved using Flier Formation, Bond skills, and Goad and/or Ward Fliers.

At the very least, he's a fairly unique lance flier assuming that Altena doesn't demote since stats-wise, he's basically blue Beruka with more Atk.

 

 

Edited by Roflolxp54

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18 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Travant having a LUL default kit doesn't really matter unless you're a Travant fan (of which I am not). Just another unit you don't have to devote resources to aside from shards/crystals. He's also free 8K feathers and 40 blue flowers. His main fodder option (Flier Guidance) is meh at best since stacking stats is very powerful and a similar but more powerful effect can be achieved using Flier Formation, Bond skills, and Goad and/or Ward Fliers.

I guess it is not a big deal since you always just run Brave Lance-Death Blow and call it a day and he will be perfectly fine and serviceable, but it feels like a missed opportunity to give players something fun and new to play with.

Like the skill does not even need to be bonkers or anything. Simply running an exclusive Weapon with a generic Weapon effect and an additional A skill or B skill on top would be good enough. It could be Slaying Lance with Quick Riposte, or Guard Lance with Dull Close, or Vanguard with Fierce Stance, or Brave Lance with-Special Spiral.

18 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

At the very least, he's a fairly unique lance flier assuming that Altena doesn't demote since stats-wise, he's basically blue Beruka with more Atk.

That is only going to last so long though. Once more Lance fliers are introduced, there is bound to be someone with high Atk/Def like he does that demotes eventually.

Edited by XRay

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I'm about to hand out a giant pile of warnings for not using spoiler tags properly.  Don't make this mistake again.

EDIT: And if there's something like "well there was a video posted publicly", I'm still warning you.  Between my last post and now, there's been zero videos posted.

Edited by eclipse

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7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Continents other than Jugdral get nice things

OK.

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

One free unit being mediocre and suddenly they're the most miserly thing in the world ever. Okay.

We’re ignoring that they’ve regressed back to 2 welfare units for both Jugdral banners, then?

I’ve already said that I don’t care about how strong units are when talking about Altenna.

If Travant had a Silver Lance++ with 100 might and Muspellflame effect, I would still be disappointed.

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12 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Heroes Deirdre is post-brainwash, at which point she's settled down with Arvis and should have access to Naga. Whether or not she had access to Naga while she was playable doesn't matter because this Deirdre comes from a point in time after she stopped being playable.

I actually don't believe that Heroes Deirdre has settled down with Arvis at this point, tbh. She doesn't seem to know either Sigurd or Arvis. Even her level 40 doesn't suggest that she had met Arvis at this point. It'd be a very odd omission for her to never speak about Arvis if she had met with him (even if their kids weren't born), considering that he's either caring for her or is her husband. Heroes Deirdre seems like she comes from that very narrow span of time after she was brainwashed but before Arvis found her. At which point she shouldn't have access to Naga.

Speaking of Arvis though, he's weird too. He's obviously from post-Belhalla, considering that he openly says he killed Sigurd, but he still has his gen 1 appearance suggesting that he is from not long after Belhalla. But in his death quote he only calls out for Deirdre and Julia ... despite never actually mentioning that his kids were already born? Did Julius becoming Loptyr happen within "gen 1" boundaries?

Heroes just fucks with the lore whenever it feels like it, and there really is no rhyme or reason. Travant doesn't have Gungnir because the developers chose not to give him Gungnir, not necessarily because he was summoned after he'd already passed it on to Areone. Likewise, if that's what the devs really want to argue for, that Travant is from after he gave up Gungnir, then there was absolutely no reason they HAD to make him from that time period either. Basically, the reason Travant has the Silver Lance+ instead of Gungnir is because the devs said so because we can't have nice things.

Edited by Sunwoo

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1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

 

  Hide contents

I actually don't believe that Heroes Deirdre has settled down with Arvis at this point, tbh. She doesn't seem to know either Sigurd or Arvis. Even her level 40 doesn't suggest that she had met Arvis at this point. It'd be a very odd omission for her to never speak about Arvis if she had met with him (even if their kids weren't born), considering that he's either caring for her or is her husband. Heroes Deirdre seems like she comes from that very narrow span of time after she was brainwashed but before Arvis found her. At which point she shouldn't have access to Naga.

Speaking of Arvis though, he's weird too. He's obviously from post-Belhalla, considering that he openly says he killed Sigurd, but he still has his gen 1 appearance suggesting that he is from not long after Belhalla. But in his death quote he only calls out for Deirdre and Julia ... despite never actually mentioning that his kids were already born? Did Julius becoming Loptyr happen within "gen 1" boundaries?

Heroes just fucks with the lore whenever it feels like it, and there really is no rhyme or reason. Travant doesn't have Gungnir because the developers chose not to give him Gungnir, not necessarily because he was summoned after he'd already passed it on to Areone. Likewise, if that's what the devs really want to argue for, that Travant is from after he gave up Gungnir, then there was absolutely no reason they HAD to make him from that time period either. Basically, the reason Travant has the Silver Lance+ instead of Gungnir is because the devs said so because we can't have nice things.

 

To be fair

Spoiler

Deirdre is a banner hero so she can be whatever. Travant is a GHB so they’re likely recreating his battle for when you defeat him in FE4, and he doesn’t have Gungnir by then.

 

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1 hour ago, Jave said:

To be fair

  Hide contents

Deirdre is a banner hero so she can be whatever. Travant is a GHB so they’re likely recreating his battle for when you defeat him in FE4, and he doesn’t have Gungnir by then.

 

Hmm, that's an interesting way of looking at it. 

Looking over past GHB fights, they messed around with weapons a lot early on, with Narcian as the most infamous example, but from Arvis on, they seem to be faithful to their original weapons more often than other units. There are still some exceptions though, like Linus and Aversa.

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2 hours ago, Jave said:

To be fair

  Reveal hidden contents

Deirdre is a banner hero so she can be whatever. Travant is a GHB so they’re likely recreating his battle for when you defeat him in FE4, and he doesn’t have Gungnir by then.

 

If they also recreate the part where he’s not recruitable... I’ll allow it.

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1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

If they also recreate the part where he’s not recruitable... I’ll allow it.

Summoning and recruiting aren't the same thing.

 

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

I'm about to hand out a giant pile of warnings for not using spoiler tags properly.  Don't make this mistake again.

EDIT: And if there's something like "well there was a video posted publicly", I'm still warning you.  Between my last post and now, there's been zero videos posted.

Trabant having a Silver Lance+ in his base kit has already been publicly revealed (before your first post, actually). It's on his character sprite in the character introductions page:

 

Edited by Ice Dragon

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Spoiler

Altena's Forging Bond conversation B explicitly talking about Travant piercing Quan's heart with the Gungnir is just rubbing the salt into the wound at this point... Travant may be one of my favorite characters, but I doubt he is popular enough to see a version of him that even pretends to do him the simple dignity of giving him the weapon he is most famous for. Here is hoping they show enough pity on Travant fans like me to give him it as an updated proof weapon in the future...sigh

 

8 hours ago, Othin said:

Looking over past GHB fights, they messed around with weapons a lot early on, with Narcian as the most infamous example, but from Arvis on, they seem to be faithful to their original weapons more often than other units. There are still some exceptions though, like Linus and Aversa.

Spoiler

To emphasize how questionably accurate that statement is I will go through all of the GHBs, but to jump straight to the TLDR

Prior to Arvis 9/13 had different weapons, and 4/13 had weapons consistent with their GHBs (although 3 of those were named weapons), so over 2/3 of GHB units didn't have weapons consistent with their GHB map appearance.

From Arvis onwards 9/25 were clearly different, 14/25 were clearly the same (although 9 of which were named weapons) and 2/25 I found somewhat ambiguous (Panne, and Kempf). Even after this improvement over 1/3 of GHB units don't have weapons consistent with their GHB map appearance, which is a lot...

Overall 18/38 wield clearly different weapon, and 18/38 wield clearly authentic weapons (12 of which are named personal weapons) and 2/38 I found ambiguous...

 

Narcian - Doesn't even use a weapon type he can use in his game.

Robin - Wields a FEH only weapon

Ursula- Wields a FEH only weapon

Michalis - Never wielded the Hauteclure in game, which is simply a weapon associated with him as a treasure of Macedon

Navarre - The first to actually wield the weapon he uses in game.

Zephiel - Uses same famous named weapon

Xander - Uses same famous named weapon

Lloyd - while he wields the Regal blade as a morph in FE7 endgame, his GHB clearly depicts his chapter 23E/24H appearance, so another weapon associated with him.

Camus - Uses same famous named weapon

Legion - While Legion's Axe is a weapon in his base game, he never wields it as an opponent, it is simply a weapon associated with him.

Clarisse - Again while Clarisse's Bow is a weapon in her base game, she never wields it as an opponent, it is simply a weapon associated with her.

Berkut - Wields a FEH only weapon

Valter - We never see him wield the cursed lance in game, it is simply a key weapon to his back story.

Arvis - Uses the same famous named weapon

Oliver - Nosferatu was his weapon of choice in game, not the Shine tome. Literally the very next GHB they break this supposed authenticity rule

Lyon - Uses same famous named weapon

Real Takumi - Uses same famous named weapon

Saias - Wields a FEH only weapon because Lightning is too boring, and implementing a status staff like sleep or silence is too risky...

Kana - Kana uses Draconic Rage in the map (the Dream Corrins's weapons in FEH) depicted by his GHB (paralogue 2), not water breath...

Julius - Uses same famous named weapon.

Linus - Basilikos is welded by his father in game, and in endgame (his GHB is clearly Chapter 27E/29H) so another associated weapon.

Walhart - Uses same famous named weapon.

Jamke - Close enough to the same weapon, as he wielded the killer bow game, and slayer bow is just a FEH only power crept killer bow

Garon - He explicitly uses Dark Breath in game (the weapon of F Corrin and Bantu in FEH), but FEH had to spice it up with another FEH exclusive weapon

Aversa - Once again they use a weapon that she never uses in game, but is associated with her.

Gharnef - Uses the same famous named weapon

Naesala - Its been renamed for clarity, but clearly the same weapon.

Panne - A bit ambiguous due to the differences in how both games treat transforming units (Awakening animations make Taguel kick or slam seem more acceptable).

Rutger - Like Jamke close enough but with killer/slayer edge instead of bows

Haar - Uses same weapon, no major caveats for once.

Delthea - And FEH is back to breaking this perceived authenticity, as Delthea uses Aura as an enemy, and can never use the enemy only Death spell (without DLC nonsense).

Cynthia - Wields a FEH only weapon

Kronya - Uses the same famous named weapon

Death Knight - Uses the same famous named weapon

Astram - Uses the same famous named weapon, for the chapter depicted at least (the GHB is clearly modeled off of Mystery/New Mystery chapter 8)

Conrad - Wields a FEH only weapon

Cormag - Like Jamke and Rutger, close enough but with killer/slayer Lance instead of bows or swords

Kempf - While he has a Venin edge (translations may vary on the exact name) in his equipment, it is almost impossible to get him to uses it on the map the GHB is based on (Thracia 776 chapter 11) as he has a Meister Sword, and Thoron as well and retreats after the first turn he sees combat (so he will never break his other weapons, you would need a thief that is somehow able to steal a Meister Sword (this is also before you recruit Tina making it even more unlikely) before you will see him use the Venin edge). Plus he is dismounted in this chapter, to further emphasize how FEH has decided to ignore canon with these GHBs.
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Altena's Forging Bond conversation B explicitly talking about Travant piercing Quan's heart with the Gungnir is just rubbing the salt into the wound at this point... Travant may be one of my favorite characters, but I doubt he is popular enough to see a version of him that even pretends to do him the simple dignity of giving him the weapon he is most famous for. Here is hoping they show enough pity on Travant fans like me to give him it as an updated proof weapon in the future...sigh

 

  Reveal hidden contents

To emphasize how questionably accurate that statement is I will go through all of the GHBs, but to jump straight to the TLDR

Prior to Arvis 9/13 had different weapons, and 4/13 had weapons consistent with their GHBs (although 3 of those were named weapons), so over 2/3 of GHB units didn't have weapons consistent with their GHB map appearance.

From Arvis onwards 9/25 were clearly different, 14/25 were clearly the same (although 9 of which were named weapons) and 2/25 I found somewhat ambiguous (Panne, and Kempf). Even after this improvement over 1/3 of GHB units don't have weapons consistent with their GHB map appearance, which is a lot...

Overall 18/38 wield clearly different weapon, and 18/38 wield clearly authentic weapons (12 of which are named personal weapons) and 2/38 I found ambiguous...

 

Narcian - Doesn't even use a weapon type he can use in his game.

Robin - Wields a FEH only weapon

Ursula- Wields a FEH only weapon

Michalis - Never wielded the Hauteclure in game, which is simply a weapon associated with him as a treasure of Macedon

Navarre - The first to actually wield the weapon he uses in game.

Zephiel - Uses same famous named weapon

Xander - Uses same famous named weapon

Lloyd - while he wields the Regal blade as a morph in FE7 endgame, his GHB clearly depicts his chapter 23E/24H appearance, so another weapon associated with him.

Camus - Uses same famous named weapon

Legion - While Legion's Axe is a weapon in his base game, he never wields it as an opponent, it is simply a weapon associated with him.

Clarisse - Again while Clarisse's Bow is a weapon in her base game, she never wields it as an opponent, it is simply a weapon associated with her.

Berkut - Wields a FEH only weapon

Valter - We never see him wield the cursed lance in game, it is simply a key weapon to his back story.

Arvis - Uses the same famous named weapon

Oliver - Nosferatu was his weapon of choice in game, not the Shine tome. Literally the very next GHB they break this supposed authenticity rule

Lyon - Uses same famous named weapon

Real Takumi - Uses same famous named weapon

Saias - Wields a FEH only weapon because Lightning is too boring, and implementing a status staff like sleep or silence is too risky...

Kana - Kana uses Draconic Rage in the map (the Dream Corrins's weapons in FEH) depicted by his GHB (paralogue 2), not water breath...

Julius - Uses same famous named weapon.

Linus - Basilikos is welded by his father in game, and in endgame (his GHB is clearly Chapter 27E/29H) so another associated weapon.

Walhart - Uses same famous named weapon.

Jamke - Close enough to the same weapon, as he wielded the killer bow game, and slayer bow is just a FEH only power crept killer bow

Garon - He explicitly uses Dark Breath in game (the weapon of F Corrin and Bantu in FEH), but FEH had to spice it up with another FEH exclusive weapon

Aversa - Once again they use a weapon that she never uses in game, but is associated with her.

Gharnef - Uses the same famous named weapon

Naesala - Its been renamed for clarity, but clearly the same weapon.

Panne - A bit ambiguous due to the differences in how both games treat transforming units (Awakening animations make Taguel kick or slam seem more acceptable).

Rutger - Like Jamke close enough but with killer/slayer edge instead of bows

Haar - Uses same weapon, no major caveats for once.

Delthea - And FEH is back to breaking this perceived authenticity, as Delthea uses Aura as an enemy, and can never use the enemy only Death spell (without DLC nonsense).

Cynthia - Wields a FEH only weapon

Kronya - Uses the same famous named weapon

Death Knight - Uses the same famous named weapon

Astram - Uses the same famous named weapon, for the chapter depicted at least (the GHB is clearly modeled off of Mystery/New Mystery chapter 😎

Conrad - Wields a FEH only weapon

Cormag - Like Jamke and Rutger, close enough but with killer/slayer Lance instead of bows or swords

Kempf - While he has a Venin edge (translations may vary on the exact name) in his equipment, it is almost impossible to get him to uses it on the map the GHB is based on (Thracia 776 chapter 11) as he has a Meister Sword, and Thoron as well and retreats after the first turn he sees combat (so he will never break his other weapons, you would need a thief that is somehow able to steal a Meister Sword (this is also before you recruit Tina making it even more unlikely) before you will see him use the Venin edge). Plus he is dismounted in this chapter, to further emphasize how FEH has decided to ignore canon with these GHBs.
 

 

So let's call that 60% from Arvis on, or 67% (8/12) for 2019. Now let's compare to 2019's New Heroes units:

  • Tibarn: Yes.
  • Nailah: Yes.
  • Reyson: No.
  • Leanne: No.
  • Kaden/Neaton/Selkie/Velouria: Close enough.
  • Idunn: No.
  • Thea: No.
  • Lugh: No.
  • Sue: Close enough.
  • Lethe/Mordecai/Ranulf/Caineghis: Yes.
  • Mareeta: Yes.
  • Berkut: Yes.
  • Corrin: Yes.
  • Tiki: No.
  • Nah: No.
  • Kjelle: No.
  • Yarne: Close enough.
  • Brady: No.
  • Byleth [both genders]: Yes.
  • Dimitri/Edelgard/Claude: No.
  • Hubert: No.
  • Petra: No.
  • Hilda: Close enough.
  • Mercedes: No.
  • Alm: Yes.
  • Eliwood: No.
  • Micaiah: No.
  • Camilla: No.
  • Sigrun: No.
  • Phina: Close enough.
  • Sirius: No.
  • Nagi: No.
  • Norne: No.
  • Bantu: No.
  • Catria: No.
  • Forsyth: No.
  • Python: No.
  • Silque: No.
  • Valbar: No.
  • Ewan: No.
  • Ephraim: Yes.
  • Gerik: No.
  • Tethys: No.
  • Ross: No.
  • Igrene: No.
  • Perceval: No.
  • Echidna: No.
  • Larum: No.
  • Chad: No.
  • Brunnya: Yes.
  • Mareeta: Yes.
  • Eyvel: No.
  • Osian: Yes.
  • Tanya: No.

So that's 24 positives and 39 negatives, for 38% positive. Or, if we exclude the CYL units, it's 23 positives and 36 negatives, for 39% positive. Either way, that's a lot lower than either GHB percentage. So yes, there's a meaningful difference here.

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*sees Altena's quotes* IS.... would you please be so kind to not tease us if you're not going to give us Arion anyway.....

 

Spoiler

And yes, the official English is Arion, just checked Altena's quotes.

 

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On 1/7/2020 at 6:52 PM, Gregster101 said:

*pulls shotgun*

You better take that fucking back

Chill, lol

I need time to save up orbs 🙂

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On 1/6/2020 at 10:39 PM, DLNarshen said:

I would very much like to pull for Shannon and Larcei, but I got to be ready for whenever Ishtar gets another banner.  Guess I'll see what pulling red on the tickets gets me for now.

I pulled every red stone on my free/ticket summons, and was super fortunate to pull Larcei (with a pretty good +atk/-hp nature to boot) without having to spend many orbs.  I'd really like Shannon, but I'm not going to push my luck.  Better to just wait until he inevitably shows up on a 3-unit banner in the future.

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1 hour ago, Brett Ensminger said:

Larcei seems broken as hell, and all her stats are just better than Mia's.

With no merges, Mia is less susceptible to level 1 Bolt Traps, so that is something. Larcei can be less susceptible to Bolt Traps too, but you need to be lucky and get a -HP Flaw.

As for being broken though, I am not sure about that. High stats is not everything. Attack range, movement, access to good Weapons, etc. matters too. Larcei's Weapon is not bad, but it feels rather tame in my opinion when you compare it to something like Laevatein or Ragnell-Alondite.

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On 1/9/2020 at 6:22 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

Jamke - Close enough to the same weapon, as he wielded the killer bow game, and slayer bow is just a FEH only power crept killer bow

Rutger - Like Jamke close enough but with killer/slayer edge instead of bows

Cormag - Like Jamke and Rutger, close enough but with killer/slayer Lance instead of bows or swords

Not just close enough; they're actually the same. Slaying weapons are just reforged Killer weapons in Japanese. They had to completely rename them in the localizations due to length restrictions.

For example, Killer Lance in Japanese is キラーランス, "Killer Lance", and Slaying Lance in Japanese is キラーランス鍛, "Killer Lance Reforged".

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Not just close enough; they're actually the same. Slaying weapons are just reforged Killer weapons in Japanese. They had to completely rename them in the localizations due to length restrictions.

For example, Killer Lance in Japanese is キラーランス, "Killer Lance", and Slaying Lance in Japanese is キラーランス鍛, "Killer Lance Reforged".

Thanks for the context, but I find it reinforces my final assessment of close enough. Enemies can use reforged weapons on the higher difficulties of some games, just not in the games Jamke, Rutger, and Cormag appear in as they were all in games before a forging system, so wielding an explicitly forged version of the weapon that use is close enough.

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On 1/10/2020 at 3:03 AM, XRay said:

Larcei's Weapon is not bad, but it feels rather tame in my opinion when you compare it to something like Laevatein or Ragnell-Alondite.

To be fair, it lets her run the exact same wrath/killer set that made her mother so feared for so long (and still, just not as much), plus what could loosely be considered lull everything (+4s instead of -3s). I don't know about broken, but she's certainly very impressive. She can hit 85 damage with +spd, DC, vantage, and brazen atk/spd seal or 95 with wrath swapped in for vantage. Is she going to shake things up the way Ayra did? Nah, but she shouldn't have any problem making a name for herself at the top of the already crowded sword infantry pool.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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