Are unorthodox builds viable in maddening?

[Shepherd]

I think the step up from hard to maddening is quite big. Personally, I like the challenge maddening provides, but I also feel like maddening can be restricting in ones creativity. Now, when I mean unorthodox builds, I don't mean memes like warlock Dedue, but like, bow knight hubert or dark knight Bernadetta. Builds that are far from optimal, but that still have at least some merit and are achievable without NG+. Do you think those kinds of builds can still be viable in maddening? What is the weirdest build that you could make work in maddening no NG+?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If you allow yourself opportunities to grind out classes and weapon ranks in battles, I think anything is possible no matter how bad the build ideas are. But even the grinding I did for my own playthrough felt overkill in retrospect. There's a guy who beat Blue Lions on maddening mode with 0% growths. Technically not 0% growths, since students in this game must level up two stats minimum, so he made those stats luck and dex as a compromise. Class bases and certain abilities and gambits are just so good they can carry the game. Although he wasn't going out of his way to do weird builds, his stated mission is to prove to people you can have impossibly bad luck on unit growth and still pull through on this difficulty

 

[LoneRecon400]

Trying basing a unit around a unique combat art such as One Two Punch or Vengance. You might be surprised at what you can come up with it. 

For example

[Xylaugheon Daily]

Half the fun is trying it out for yourself.

[Shepherd]

4 hours ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

Half the fun is trying it out for yourself.

Oh, I'm definitely gonna try that bow knight Hubert, but when it really doesn't work out it's not so fun anymore. 

Though I suppose that I should be able to make it work if the game can be beaten with 0% growths.

[Flere210]

Bow knight hubert is most likely going to work out just fine because magic bows are a thing if you grind enought the get the proficiencies. 

[Jotari]

My Anna build has her running Darting Blow + Lethality + Dex+4 (and Death Blow) and using the Thunder Brand (though using New Game+ to get the crest), Inexhaustible and a pair of Gauntlets. The idea is that she can reliably quad enemies, but because her strength is rather low, she's depending on either Lethality to activate or for the Crest of Ernest to activate meaning she avoids a counter attack and hits a straight four times, possibly critting. I did use New Game+ to get her some weapon ranks, but Pegasus Knight and Assassin should both be possible to achieve without New Game+ if you know what you're doing. You might not get a fourth tier class for her but Assassin is better than most infantry class for this set up as it has more Dex (though because I have more weapon rank freedom for her I've stuck her in Bow Knight to finish off, she still carries the gauntlets as they can be used dismounted). I think it's rather unorthodox as in depends heavily on RNG, but it is viable in Maddening. Anna maintains a pretty high speed stat which makes her one of the only units in my army whom the enemy won't reliably double. This means despite her weak defenses she can actually survive at least a round of combat against most nonbosses. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Jotari

[LoneRecon400]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

-Lethality- 

Fun Fact: Impregnable Wall doesn't stop Lethality from activating. So you can have Anna quad a unit like an Armor Knight for 4 damage only to instantly defeat in a single blow. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Fun Fact: Impregnable Wall doesn't stop Lethality from activating. So you can have Anna quad a unit like an Armor Knight for 4 damage only to instantly defeat in a single blow. 

Lethality activation I find particularly funny in this game as there's absolutely no showy animation at all. The enemy just unexpectedly loses all their remaining health from an attack that looks like it's dealing scratch damage.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

I was considering making a Poison Strike debuff build for Archer/Sniper/Bow Knight Ignatz (+ Magic Bow). Not really that unorthodox in my opinion, but can be useful if you start in Golden Deer. Otherwise, can’t really think of anything other than maybe not making a Grappler a War Master. There is Fierce Iron Fist, Fistfaire for all the other useful Brawling Arts like One-Two Punch, Nimble Combo, and Bombard, and finally, Grapplers are Guard Adjutants. Not to mention the lack of a need to go deep into two specific weapon types on anyone who specializes in only one (i.e. Felix).

[iavasechui]

Bishop Bernadetta has been a godsend with six rescue uses

[SpiceMan]

13 minutes ago, iavasechui said:

Bishop Bernadetta has been a godsend with six rescue uses

But you could just use Flayn. Higher magic stat and Fortify. I'd only ever say this is okay on Crimson flower or if you are using holy Knight and pass shenanigans.

[iavasechui]

Yeah but rescue lets me send in a unit to strategically kill an enemy the rescue them out of the unavoidable death that will follow

[Jotari]

15 minutes ago, iavasechui said:

Yeah but rescue lets me send in a unit to strategically kill an enemy the rescue them out of the unavoidable death that will follow

Flayn has rescue too though. And a better magic stat to utilize it.

[Shadow Mir]

47 minutes ago, iavasechui said:

Bishop Bernadetta has been a godsend with six rescue uses

Unless you've fed her every magic booster you got, she won't have much range with Rescue, as Rescue range is only Mag/4.

[iavasechui]

She hasn’t failed me yet and I’ve almost beaten silver snow

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, SpiceMan said:

But you could just use Flayn. Higher magic stat and Fortify. I'd only ever say this is okay on Crimson flower or if you are using holy Knight and pass shenanigans.

To her credit, Bernadetta gets a debatably better Faith list (Physic), and a firmly better Reason list (Thoron).

But as pure Rescue support goes, yeah Flayn is better.

[SpiceMan]

14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

To her credit, Bernadetta gets a debatably better Faith list (Physic), and a firmly better Reason list (Thoron).

I always forget about the non mages who learn physic. That is honestly a decent point in her favour. Though Flayn has 4 fortifys that will probably have about the same range as Bernie's physics due to their magic differences (20% and 55%) and will certainly heal a lot more. And while 10 heals is better than 4 if you are using either of these two as your only healer your team is in trouble. 

Why does Flayn (and Annette) have to have such bad spell lists. was thoron really too much to ask for these two.

[Dandy Druid]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:30 AM, SpiceMan said:

I always forget about the non mages who learn physic. That is honestly a decent point in her favour. Though Flayn has 4 fortifys that will probably have about the same range as Bernie's physics due to their magic differences (20% and 55%) and will certainly heal a lot more. And while 10 heals is better than 4 if you are using either of these two as your only healer your team is in trouble. 

Why does Flayn (and Annette) have to have such bad spell lists. was thoron really too much to ask for these two.

Somebody had to be the wind mages. Too bad this isn't FE4 where wind magic is great. What a world we live in where thunder is the best magic and wind is the worst.