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Mikethemaster2018

Three Houses does a lot tell and not show

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I like the story of three houses but thegames does alot of tell and not much showing. Don't get me wrong the world building is good. Sometime the npc and main character info dumps are annoying I rather be shown the area or whatever they are talking about than just the info dumps the game give the player(Byleth).

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I agree, yes. Some scenes are really robbed of their power due to them not being properly presented. A certain character's off-screen death comes to mind.

Edited by Elephantus

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oh yeah like claude's many brilliant schemes

did they actually show at least one ingame? because if they did, i can't remember a single one

Edited by Yexin

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28 minutes ago, Yexin said:

oh yeah like claude's many brilliant schemes

did they actually show at least one ingame? because if they did, i can't remember a single one

I haven't gotten to far in golden deer only on chapter 3 or 4 but yeah when I played CF they never really show what Claude could do he was called the Master Tectician and that it.

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Why does Dimitri get so many unnecessary CG artwork, but Claude gets zero, and Edelgard hardly gets any?

Why can't we see CG art of Edelgard and her siblings being horribly experimented on? Or Claude being persecuted against for being half-Fodlan?

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3 hours ago, Yexin said:

oh yeah like claude's many brilliant schemes

did they actually show at least one ingame? because if they did, i can't remember a single one

He has his fire attack but he's got to share that one with Seteth and Gilbert. I suppose Claude has some political schemes like how he gets house Gloucester to help. 

To be fair Claude's reputation being more hype than truth does seem somewhat in character for him. It allows him to depict himself more powerful than he really is. 

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Why does Dimitri get so many unnecessary CG artwork, but Claude gets zero, and Edelgard hardly gets any?

Why can't we see CG art of Edelgard and her siblings being horribly experimented on? Or Claude being persecuted against for being half-Fodlan?

Man that would be awesome but I think Dimitri get special treatment for cg is because he is the Marth of the game. Just edger. Eldegard gets the push on the media though. Claude, eh, he gets nothing except the memes and the whole why isn't he gay or bi. To get back on topic maybe three houses was meant to be just Dimitri route, but since kecmo got involved they switch the focus to a fire emblem three kingdoms. Who knows.

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I haven't even finished my first playthrough (Crimson Flower) yet, and I can agree to this. There's a lot of telling, and a lack of showing. 

For instance, a great deal is said about the Flame Emperor, but for all that's said about how big an antagonist they are in part 1, for all that the Flame Emperor talks a big game, and how much the character is hyped up in the trailers and promotional material (and the story itself) to be the main antagonist of part 1: the anti-church rebellion leader whose big reveal would have massive ramifications that shift the player's perspective and all that, the Flame Emperor isn't shown to do much of anything. One of my big criticisms of The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is that Ganondorf lacks presence and comes off as more of a bonus boss as a result. It's the same issue with the Flame Emperor. What the Flame Emperor does, amounts to the following:

  • Stage a bandit attack to kill the house leaders, but Edelgard being the Flame Emperor makes that stupid. 
  • Use the Western Church as patsies to steal Seiros' body, though Seiros' body wasn't there; the Sword of the Creator was. But Edelgard didn't know that, as she only knows that Rhea's The Immaculate One.
  • Loan the Death Knight to Those Who Slither in the Dark, though that doesn't really count as nothing those guys do in part 1 is part of Edelgard's plan. 
  • Launch a raid of the Holy Tomb to steal crest stones. This happens after Edelgard reveals that she's the Flame Emperor, so I don't count it either. 

Overall, two things that were pretty minor overall: a failed attempt to get rid of Claude and Dimitri that only succeeds in humiliating the professor (though that too fails as Byleth gets made professor instead of Jeritza), and an attempt to steal Seiros' corpse using the Western Church as patsies. That is it. So much for, "I will reshape Fodlan". We see the Flame Emperor on-screen a bunch of times, but it's almost never to do any real plotting or scheming; at least none that amount to anything. We get:

  • The Flame Emperor leaving Kostas out to dry; not a scheme, just a typical, "You'll be the scapegoat".
  • A talk with Arundal where they discuss the Western Church's failure and the Flame Emperor loans Arundal the Death Knight as part of the previous bargain. 
  • Stops the Death Knight from losing again to Lysithea killing all of you and letting you retrieve Flayn. Not a scheme. 
  • Tells you that they had no involvement in Remire Village and they would've stopped it if they had known about it. Opposite of a scheme. Weirdly, the Flame Emperor offers for Byleth and Jeralt to join them even though they know nothing of the Flame Emperor's goals (and never do learn anything of the Flame Emperor's goals). A bit more clarity would've been in order before making an offer like that, or at least change it from, "Join me" to "Work with me to stop these Slither guys". 
  • Stand there while Kronya and Thales are talking and then interject to say that the Slitherers are never going to have their moment of victory. No scheming. The Flame Emperor is just standing there and doing nothing. 

You could remove the Flame Emperor from part 1 and almost nothing would change. They never do anything while wearing that mask. IS seems to have forgotten that one of the main points of a character wearing a mask is that it enables them to do stuff they wouldn't be able to do if their identity were visible. Edelgard just wears the mask so they can... what exactly? No need to wear it in front of Arundal or the other Slitherers, the talk with Byleth in the Flayn chapter and Remire chapter were unplanned, and, since Kostas nearly killed her, it actively hurt her goals to speak with Kostas while wearing the mask. 

We're told that the Flame Emperor is this big antagonist whose actions and reveal would have big ramifications, but we aren't shown it. 

 

12 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Why does Dimitri get so many unnecessary CG artwork, but Claude gets zero, and Edelgard hardly gets any?

Why can't we see CG art of Edelgard and her siblings being horribly experimented on? Or Claude being persecuted against for being half-Fodlan?

For that matter, why do we pretty much only get CG artwork in Crimson Flower, where cutscenes, in certain situations, would've been far better?

I also dislike how we're told in Crimon Flower that the Church of Seiros is corrupt, but we're only told that. Throughout part 1, we see that the Church has been keeping secrets about the Crests and Hero Relics, that Rhea has a wrathful side and that Rhea is using Byleth to bring back her mother, but that's about it. Neither of the first two are strong evidence of corruption, and the last one is something Edelgard doesn't know about, and that Byleth only semi-knows thanks to Jeralt's journal. When Edelgard gives her big speech, I was just confused. 

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1 minute ago, Mikethemaster2018 said:

Man that would be awesome but I think Dimitri get special treatment for cg is because he is the Marth of the game. Just edger. Eldegard gets the push on the media though. Claude, eh, he gets nothing except the memes and the whole why isn't he gay or bi. To get back on topic maybe three houses was meant to be just Dimitri route, but since kecmo got involved they switch the focus to a fire emblem three kingdoms. Who knows.

Dude, don't even compare him to Marth. He can't hold a candle to the Hero-King. 

But seriously, if you count the amount of unique CG artworks AM gets, it's ridiculous. If anything, I feel the effort is just so that it visually makes people appeal to Dimitri. 

2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
  • Stage a bandit attack to kill the house leaders, but Edelgard being the Flame Emperor makes that stupid.

In regards to this, it's likely that Edelgard never wanted them to get killed. Edelgard never told Kostas that the Knights of Seiros would be there. Instead, it's possible the intention was to remove the teacher that was there so that Edelgard could install Jeritza as the professor, which would give Edelgard access to information that students can't access. After all, the only reason they were ever in danger in the first place is cause Claude ran off like a jackass.

4 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I also dislike how we're told in Crimon Flower that the Church of Seiros is corrupt, but we're only told that. Throughout part 1, we see that the Church has been keeping secrets about the Crests and Hero Relics, that Rhea has a wrathful side and that Rhea is using Byleth to bring back her mother, but that's about it. Neither of the first two are strong evidence of corruption, and the last one is something Edelgard doesn't know about, and that Byleth only semi-knows thanks to Jeralt's journal. When Edelgard gives her big speech, I was just confused. 

... We DO get shown the corruption of the Church. Chapter 3 literally has all of us horrified that we killed civilians, and Rhea is like, "Nah fam, you're good." Hell, she even says that Lonato is an example of what should happen if you dare to oppose the Church. Way to threaten everyone. And we're constantly warned that Rhea is suspicious, the first cutscene is Rhea brutally stabbing Nemesis to death, and definitely someone that messed with you at birth and lies to your face that Jeralt never accepted the decision when actually, you never told him the truth of what actually happened. 

Not to mention how we see how Miklan was cast aside from his family because of a lack of a Crest, showing how messed up society is, and it's the Church that made the doctrine of Crests being objects of worship. 

Then there's the inherent racism where even members of the Church insulted Dedue and accused him of being the one behind Flayn's kidnapping.

That's the thing. There's the obvious evil you see, and the subtle evil that you don't realize is there.

What seems normal is actually evil. The Church uses the "divine right" as justification for their actions, as all actions Rhea does is under the will of the goddess. 

Religious symbolism is also there, where Rhea is the one wearing all white and appearing as an angelic figure. Edelgard is the one that wears red and has devil horns, presenting herself as the devil. Which is the actual trick. The devil is someone that doesn't actually appear before you as a demon, but as an angel. But once you reject what the devil wants, the devil reveals its true form. Hence why in CF, Rhea goes and turns into the Immaculate One after you side with Edelgard, even calling Byleth "just another failure".

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For some reason the only characters to have flashbacks are Rhea and Dimitri; good for them but rough for everyone else. Entire arguments for characters are based off a couple lines of dialogue, some being optional in some cases. It makes Edelgard look like a self important tyrant if not analyzed deeply. Claude's role as a outsider doesn't feel strong when Almyra is portrayed as a bandit country.

Echoes memory prisms need to come back.

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3 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

For some reason the only characters to have flashbacks are Rhea and Dimitri; good for them but rough for everyone else. Entire arguments for characters are based off a couple lines of dialogue, some being optional in some cases. It makes Edelgard look like a self important tyrant if not analyzed deeply. Claude's role as a outsider doesn't feel strong when Almyra is portrayed as a bandit country.

Echoes memory prisms need to come back.

Building off of this, VW could be so much stronger if we saw a scene from Claude's backstory. What was it like, living in Almyra, but being of half-Fódlan birth? And what did the Almyrans think of people from Fódlan? The game is missing an "inside Almyra" perspective, like the best we get is Cyril talking about their traditions. 

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4 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Building off of this, VW could be so much stronger if we saw a scene from Claude's backstory. What was it like, living in Almyra, but being of half-Fódlan birth? And what did the Almyrans think of people from Fódlan? The game is missing an "inside Almyra" perspective, like the best we get is Cyril talking about their traditions. 

It's annoying how Almyrans arrived one time in one chapter, then just leaves. 

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3 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Echoes memory prisms need to come back.

Thiiiiis! Please add them for free in the last DLC update, IS, I know you're listening.

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Why does Dimitri get so many unnecessary CG artwork, but Claude gets zero, and Edelgard hardly gets any?

Why can't we see CG art of Edelgard and her siblings being horribly experimented on? Or Claude being persecuted against for being half-Fodlan?

I'm not far in BL yet but from what I know it does seem like it was the first route they worked on, and that's why Edelgard and Claude get less backstory shown and cutscenes.

 

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"Actually, Three Houses shows us a lot of things. Here, let me show you."

Screen fades to black

"See? Don't you really feel like you're there in this scene?"

"Wow, you've really opened my eyes! Hey, while we're here in this black void, want to duel?"

"It'd be my pleasure." 

*clang* *clang*

"Phew, what a workout."

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7 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

"Actually, Three Houses shows us a lot of things. Here, let me show you."

Screen fades to black

"See? Don't you really feel like you're there in this scene?"

"Wow, you've really opened my eyes! Hey, while we're here in this black void, want to duel?"

"It'd be my pleasure." 

*clang* *clang*

"Phew, what a workout."

"Wow, what's that you're wielding?"

*picture of a sword*

"Heh, check out my new technique with it! Hyah!"

*wooshing sound*

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9 hours ago, Yexin said:

oh yeah like claude's many brilliant schemes

did they actually show at least one ingame? because if they did, i can't remember a single one

I'm gonna spoiler this because I have no idea which routes you've played.

Verdant Wind:

Spoiler

Apparently they sneak into a fortress using disguises or something. . .which was suggested by Hilda, of all people.  We don't see the disguises, though.

Azure Moon:

Spoiler

The capital city defense - Judith explicitly mentions that their formation takes into account Dimitri's presence (this is before your army shows up).  Takes some serious tactical balls to do that as a last-stand maneuver.

---

For the topic, the supports do a lot of telling, but that's because they're supports.  The story could use more showing (the Western Church rebellion comes to mind).

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The game also does that weird "as you know ...", sometime it's because Byleth doesn't know jack, which is weird but okay, and sometime it's....
Like that whole scorpion gang from Caspar's support, or black screen and noises. 

Hearing someone monologuing at random is pretty stupid.

 

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

... We DO get shown the corruption of the Church. Chapter 3 literally has all of us horrified that we killed civilians, and Rhea is like, "Nah fam, you're good." Hell, she even says that Lonato is an example of what should happen if you dare to oppose the Church. Way to threaten everyone. And we're constantly warned that Rhea is suspicious, the first cutscene is Rhea brutally stabbing Nemesis to death, and definitely someone that messed with you at birth and lies to your face that Jeralt never accepted the decision when actually, you never told him the truth of what actually happened. 

Not to mention how we see how Miklan was cast aside from his family because of a lack of a Crest, showing how messed up society is, and it's the Church that made the doctrine of Crests being objects of worship. 

Then there's the inherent racism where even members of the Church insulted Dedue and accused him of being the one behind Flayn's kidnapping.

Reminded of Megaman Zero for a moment, red horned devil vs blue angel. I think Zero was even called "red devil".

The Church being uppity and bad, we see proofs of that, plenty, but that make the rest, the racism, Duscur, the dupstep gang, and supports, suffering from the comparison because we not shown near as much things as with the church, and it hurt the writing imo.

Edited by B.Leu

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11 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

See the Church being uppity and bad, we see proofs of that, plenty, but that make the rest, the racism, Duscur, the dupstep gang, and supports, suffering from the comparison because we not shown near as much as with the church, and it hurt the writing imo.

THat's just it. You're not meant to see it so OBVIOUSLY. Because Fodlan's corruption and the Church's hypocrisy is not MEANT to be obvious. It's not that the Church is evil, but its doctrine has turned Fodlan into a horrible place that needs to change. But no one realizes this. People are quick to just blame people for this, and sure, people are bad, but we never consider that the system can be bad as well. Because people think that the system is generally fine. 

People are quick to simply say war is bad, death is bad, etc. But they never go see the bigger picture. 

It is sad that people need evil to be straight up in your face about it, rather than it being subtle.

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

I'm gonna spoiler this because I have no idea which routes you've played.

Verdant Wind:

  Hide contents

Apparently they sneak into a fortress using disguises or something. . .which was suggested by Hilda, of all people.  We don't see the disguises, though.

Azure Moon:

  Hide contents

The capital city defense - Judith explicitly mentions that their formation takes into account Dimitri's presence (this is before your army shows up).  Takes some serious tactical balls to do that as a last-stand maneuver.

 

all of them, currently replaying silver snow because i want to see what happens when you marry her, so no worries

 

yeah, that was basically what i was talking about

also jeralt, he's supposed to be the strongest man (or mercenary? can't remember) in all fódlan, but that is all, we're supposed to believe it without any demonstration of his actual strength

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7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

In regards to this, it's likely that Edelgard never wanted them to get killed. Edelgard never told Kostas that the Knights of Seiros would be there. Instead, it's possible the intention was to remove the teacher that was there so that Edelgard could install Jeritza as the professor, which would give Edelgard access to information that students can't access. After all, the only reason they were ever in danger in the first place is cause Claude ran off like a jackass.

It's likely, and I did account for that. It was still a plan that nearly got her killed whether or not it was due to Claude jumping the gun and running off like that, and it failed; albeit due to Byleth, which was something she could not have accounted for.

In any case, my general point about the Flame Emperor completely lacking presence in part 1 still stands. 1 relatively minor botched plan at the start of the game, 1 minor botched plan to steal an item that was never there because it doesn't exist, and one crest-stone theft operation that, in the Black Eagles route, happens after the reveal. That's not enough shown compared to how much is built up through talking. 

7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

... We DO get shown the corruption of the Church. Chapter 3 literally has all of us horrified that we killed civilians, and Rhea is like, "Nah fam, you're good." Hell, she even says that Lonato is an example of what should happen if you dare to oppose the Church. Way to threaten everyone. And we're constantly warned that Rhea is suspicious, the first cutscene is Rhea brutally stabbing Nemesis to death, and definitely someone that messed with you at birth and lies to your face that Jeralt never accepted the decision when actually, you never told him the truth of what actually happened. 

Not to mention how we see how Miklan was cast aside from his family because of a lack of a Crest, showing how messed up society is, and it's the Church that made the doctrine of Crests being objects of worship. 

Then there's the inherent racism where even members of the Church insulted Dedue and accused him of being the one behind Flayn's kidnapping.

That's the thing. There's the obvious evil you see, and the subtle evil that you don't realize is there.

What seems normal is actually evil. The Church uses the "divine right" as justification for their actions, as all actions Rhea does is under the will of the goddess. 

Religious symbolism is also there, where Rhea is the one wearing all white and appearing as an angelic figure. Edelgard is the one that wears red and has devil horns, presenting herself as the devil. Which is the actual trick. The devil is someone that doesn't actually appear before you as a demon, but as an angel. But once you reject what the devil wants, the devil reveals its true form. Hence why in CF, Rhea goes and turns into the Immaculate One after you side with Edelgard, even calling Byleth "just another failure".

Five Things: 

1. Spoilers much (I figured that Rhea = Seiros, but I haven't yet gotten to the part of the game where that's revealed, so thanks for confirming that). The first cutscene is a massive battle, during which Seiros fights Nemesis, yells at him about an event I do not yet know so please don't say what it was, then she beats him and kills him; quite brutally, yes, but that can be chalked up to the war and whatever history is between those two characters, which is implied by the scene to be some pretty bad history. 

2. The Byleth messed-with-at-birth thing is pretty bad, but it is unique to Byleth. The only people besides Rhea that live and know about it are Byleth and Seteth, and Seteth was absolutely furious when he found out, so yes; it's bad, but it's a problem with the archbishop, not the church. 

3. The rest is a good point. I did notice that stuff and that stuff is bad. However, I already mentioned that we see that Rhea has a very wrathful side, so the game does instead show that Rhea and her yes-men (i.e. Catherine) should be knocked down a peg and not be allowed to execute willy-nilly. But again, we see other higher-ups have issues with it too. I'm not saying that Rhea being the one doing the bad stuff doesn't mean the system is fine; far from it. 

4. The Miklan thing is a good point. Yes; we do see that the Crest and nobility system is a big problem and that the church is clearly hiding something about the true nature of the crests. 

5. Funny; I interpreted that symbolism as Red Dragon and White Dragon (look up Dinas Emrys). That fits better. 

Overall, I withdraw that statement. I think the Flame Emperor would've been a good way to help highlight these issues, like if the Flame Emperor, at some point in the story before the identity reveal, used some of these points as a rally cry to their soldiers or something like that. Again, the Flame Emperor needed to be a lot more active. 

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7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

THat's just it. You're not meant to see it so OBVIOUSLY. Because Fodlan's corruption and the Church's hypocrisy is not MEANT to be obvious. It's not that the Church is evil, but its doctrine has turned Fodlan into a horrible place that needs to change. But no one realizes this. People are quick to just blame people for this, and sure, people are bad, but we never consider that the system can be bad as well. Because people think that the system is generally fine. 

People are quick to simply say war is bad, death is bad, etc. But they never go see the bigger picture. 

It is sad that people need evil to be straight up in your face about it, rather than it being subtle.

It's kinda hard to not see the church problems when it is in fact obvious and in your face imo. 😛
That or the writer screwed up, which is possible, I still can't wrap my head arround the how the path split between CF and SM are supposed to make sense.

My point was, the rest is not subtle, it's just non-existant. Hence the problem, tell don't show.
I mean you can think it is, but I disagree.

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17 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

... We DO get shown the corruption of the Church. Chapter 3 literally has all of us horrified that we killed civilians, and Rhea is like, "Nah fam, you're good." Hell, she even says that Lonato is an example of what should happen if you dare to oppose the Church.

Kind minor detail. bu are they really "civilian" if they were armed and attacked you first in an ambush?

The game didn't actually say they were civilian, but "militia", and bulk (90%) of medieval armies were made of militia since very few lord/kings kept standing armies.

 

Quote

Religious symbolism is also there, where Rhea is the one wearing all white and appearing as an angelic figure. Edelgard is the one that wears red and has devil horns, presenting herself as the devil. Which is the actual trick. The devil is someone that doesn't actually appear before you as a demon, but as an angel. But once you reject what the devil wants, the devil reveals its true form. Hence why in CF, Rhea goes and turns into the Immaculate One after you side with Edelgard, even calling Byleth "just another failure".

But Edelgard doesn't wear such crown until player already choose side, so it doesn't affect how player would choose in Part One.

I have asked before why  Edelgard chose such design, but didn't really get an answer. The most logical one was it's based on Immaculate One, passed down since the first emperor. But it wouldn't explain why Edelgard wears the crown based on her enemy rather than something symbolize her ideology.

Edited by Timlugia

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12 hours ago, B.Leu said:

It's kinda hard to not see the church problems when it is in fact obvious and in your face imo. 😛
That or the writer screwed up, which is possible, I still can't wrap my head arround the how the path split between CF and SM are supposed to make sense.

My point was, the rest is not subtle, it's just non-existant. Hence the problem, tell don't show.
I mean you can think it is, but I disagree.

It isn't in your face. In fact, so many people outright insist that Edelgard was completely unjustified in her war and tries to justify every action the Church makes, or even outright insist that the Church doesn't really have that much power. 

But I guess unless you're presented as generically evil as the Agarthans, people aren't going to pay attention to the subtle evils of the Church.

It isn't non-existent. It's there as I said it. Also, that's the thing. They DO show it, but you're acting like it's not shown, which indicates that you aren't really seeing it. And I don't say this to offend you.

That's the thing about subtlety. It's not obvious unless it's smack in your face like the Agarthans. Unless Rhea gets into an angry fit of rage like she does in CF, people don't see how messed up she is, despite how it's been hinted at.

10 hours ago, Timlugia said:

Kind minor detail. bu are they really "civilian" if they were armed and attacked you first in an ambush?

The game didn't actually say they were civilian, but "militia", and bulk (90%) of medieval armies were made of militia since very few lord/kings kept standing armies.

Actually, the game actually does have them be addressed as civilians. More in the BL route:

Quote

Dimitri: That...that was my first time killing civilians too... Those who I'm sworn to protect.

- Byleth: It was a necessary sacrifice.

- Byleth: That is the reality of war.

Dimitri: Are you insane?! Those weren't knights or soldiers, but fathers and sons! We...we shouldn't have killed them. We should have found another way... I...I'm sorry. It's not fair for me to blame you for the circumstance. I know that if we hadn't...done what we did, even more civilian lives would have been lost.

-

Rhea: I heard some of the students were...hesitant about fighting militia. However, we must punish any sinner who may inflict harm upon believers, even if those sinners are civilians. I pray the students learned a valuable lesson about the fate that awaits all who are foolish enough to point their blades towards the heavens.

So it's pretty clear that they were always civilians, even if they are a militia. But the Knights of Seiros wiped them all out. 

And Rhea doesn't even get fazed by their deaths, or even care about Lonato. He was a sinner, and that was it. It's a black and white morality on her. But apparently, quite a few people ignore or don't see it.

10 hours ago, Timlugia said:

But Edelgard doesn't wear such crown until player already choose side, so it doesn't affect how player would choose in Part One.

I have asked before why  Edelgard chose such design, but didn't really get an answer. The most logical one was it's based on Immaculate One, passed down since the first emperor. But it wouldn't explain why Edelgard wears the crown based on her enemy rather than something symbolize her ideology.

You hardly choose someone in Part 1, given that your choice is made generally in Chapter 1, with only Black Eagles House the only way you can have another chance to have a real choice in the game. 

Edelgard's design is overall meant to symbolize that she is a sinner, someone that has sinned and is committing evil, in the form of starting a war against the Church of Seiros, which is already something that would be considered complete heresy. She's portraying herself as the devil, seeking to oppose god. 

The interesting thing is that Rhea's Immaculate One form has the devil horns, which kind of shows that Rhea has the devil inside her. 

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21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It isn't in your face. In fact, so many people outright insist that Edelgard was completely unjustified in her war and tries to justify every action the Church makes, or even outright insist that the Church doesn't really have that much power. 

But I guess unless you're presented as generically evil as the Agarthans, people aren't going to pay attention to the subtle evils of the Church.

It isn't non-existent. It's there as I said it. Also, that's the thing. They DO show it, but you're acting like it's not shown, which indicates that you aren't really seeing it. And I don't say this to offend you.

That's the thing about subtlety. It's not obvious unless it's smack in your face like the Agarthans. Unless Rhea gets into an angry fit of rage like she does in CF, people don't see how messed up she is, despite how it's been hinted at.

And that's the thing, I find it stupid, Rhea and her church is as subtle as the Agarthans in their evils, that is like a kick in the balls.
The game takes every oppotunity to shows they're bad news and toxic, and explain, and shows that too. Like your quotes of Dimitri and Rhea.
Unless I have over 9000 IQ, achieved CHIM, and Over Heaven and that such sublety is not subtle to me, but I doubt it. 😛

Nonono, I'm saying it's almost never show for the rest, threre really wasn't much NPCs or the likes that talked about Duscur, and the like I talked above.

The Agarthans may or may not get a pass because they're hidden and edgy and stuff.

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1 minute ago, B.Leu said:

And that's the thing, I find it stupid, Rhea and her church is as subtle as the Agarthans in their evils, that is like a kick in the balls.
The game takes every oppotunity to shows they're bad news and toxic, and explain, and shows that too. Like your quotes of Dimitri and Rhea.
Unless I have over 9000 IQ, achieved CHIM, and Over Heaven and that such sublety is not subtle to me, but I doubt it. 😛

Nonono, I'm saying it's almost never show for the rest, threre really wasn't much NPCs or the likes that talked about Duscur, and the like I talked above.

The Agarthans may or may not get a pass because they're hidden and edgy and stuff.

As you said, you claim that it's in your face, yet there are countless cases where I've seen people write about how Edelgard was completely wrong, the Church wasn't evil, or as powerful, and even claim that everything Rhea did was justified. There are even videos about it.

It is shown to you, but people don't think that there was anything wrong. They think that Lonato was solely to blame and the civilians aren't even actually civilians, despite how they are stated to be just that.

Seems that Rhea is only able to be seen as a bad guy only when Rhea makes the "Pathetic" face in CF and then makes a vicious declaration.

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