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New Heroes: A Star Is Born

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11 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Every world has what is real in that world/reality and what is not real in that world/reality. This is the same as the separation between fact and fiction. Because worlds are made of minute details, the removal of such a detail would, indeed, make a sort of parallel reality. Thus, it would no longer be the same world, even if it is made to look like another world/has a lot in common with another world (i.e., the one in which we live). It just isn't the same place with the same series of events. Because these things are different, it is a different world. In one world, ogres are real, and in another, they aren't. If you went to the grocery store in one world, then in that world, said event is real (or "canon") but didn't in another world, that story would be fiction.

What you are completely misunderstanding is the concept of "setting". The setting of a story is all of the elements that give the audience a context to anchor the story.

To say that a story is "set in the real world" means that the story is anchored at some place and time in the real world, whether or not the story is fictional or even the exact location or time are fictional. The minutiae that you are so fixated add to the setting rather than exclude from the setting.

Romeo and Juliet is set in 15th-century Verona, Italy. The Scarlet Letter is set in 17th-century Massachusetts. Harry Potter is set in modern-day England. Iron Man is set somewhere in the United States (and somewhere in the Middle East for the prologue section) in the near future. These are all real-world settings.

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49 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

I'm not sure if the final map with the unit placements has been posted anywhere, but I can provide the raw image of what is presumably the final map:

  Reveal hidden contents

Here it is with the unit placements and the boss's stats and skills (only posted on Reddit 10 minutes ago by Xanek):

Spoiler

Post image

 

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@Tybrosion Thanks!

Well thats disappointing.

Spoiler

Here I was thinking it'd be Shibuya or the Bloom Palace, instead, it's a boring Gharnef FE3B1 rehash. It doesn't have anything that looks TMS-y to it that I remember. Must have been too much effort to create a lot of new assets. I wanted sidewalks and crosswalks, or old stone and greenery.

 

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12 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:
 

Here it is with the unit placements and the boss's stats and skills (only posted on Reddit 10 minutes ago by Xanek):

  Reveal hidden contents

Post image

 

 

Spoiler

Looks like a really easy map. That poor armor unit is going to get slaughtered, with the ranged unit near it being dead next.

 

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

What you are completely misunderstanding is the concept of "setting". The setting of a story is all of the elements that give the audience a context to anchor the story.

To say that a story is "set in the real world" means that the story is anchored at some place and time in the real world, whether or not the story is fictional or even the exact location or time are fictional. The minutiae that you are so fixated add to the setting rather than exclude from the setting.

Romeo and Juliet is set in 15th-century Verona, Italy. The Scarlet Letter is set in 17th-century Massachusetts. Harry Potter is set in modern-day England. Iron Man is set somewhere in the United States (and somewhere in the Middle East for the prologue section) in the near future. These are all real-world settings.

It's not that I'm missing anything. It's that this is something I've pondered for a long time and have come to a conclusion on. That is, a world is made up of two primary components: its physical properties and its timeline. If the events don't match up, it cannot be the same world, just as if its physical properties don't match up, it cannot be the same world. This is why canon is important. Canon is basically what is true of a given world. This can be applied to physical properties (such as the span and depth of the Grand Canyon) and to historical events. Even in the new tap battles, you can see Shibuya 109 in the background. Except that it's not Shibuya 109. It's Shibuya 106. Clearly, this is based on Shibuya 109, but it is not the same place. However, Shibuya 106 clearly exists in this other world. That's part of the canon of this world. Likewise, pop star magic is a part of this other world. These things are real within the world of FE#. However, they are not real in our own world. There is a clear difference between the canon of that world and the canon of our own. How can it be true that Shibuya 106 exists and true that Shibuya 109 exists while also being true that neither exist? Simple: they exist in different realities, aka, different worlds. In FE#, Shibuya 106 exists and Shibuya 109 does not exist. Likewise, in our world, Shibuya 109 exists and Shibuya 106 does not. Even if one world is strongly based on another, they are not the same.

The original question that two stances were taken on was this: Is the world of FE# the same as our world or just based on our world? My answer is that it is based on our world (which means that places from our world were at least referenced (i.e., use of reference pictures) in its making) but is its own world with its own events, timeline, and even has some differences in its physical properties (i.e., Shibuya 106.)

This gives the viewer/player/reader a sense of familiarity with the location while giving the writers freedom to break away from our reality: they have found and are telling the story of another world quite similar to our own, but do not have to keep to our world's canon.

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57 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

The original question that two stances were taken on was this: Is the world of FE# the same as our world or just based on our world? My answer is that it is based on our world (which means that places from our world were at least referenced (i.e., use of reference pictures) in its making) but is its own world with its own events, timeline, and even has some differences in its physical properties (i.e., Shibuya 106.)

So I went back through the entire quote chain, and your original argument does stand, at least based on how @coldhand25's original post was worded. The world of TMS is based on the real world, but is not the real world.

However, the argument did end up going off-track partway through to include setting:

On 1/15/2020 at 10:51 AM, coldhand25 said:

so I do believe TMS#FE is set in the real world as well.

And this statement from coldhand25 is also true.

 

You are correct that the world of TMS is not the same as the real world. However, coldhand25 is correct that TMS is set in the real world. These are both true and do not contradict each other.

That also does mean that Kiran cannot be from the world of TMS since Kiran is implied to be the player, who does not come from the world of TMS.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Does anyone know where the latest datamine info can be found? I think the TT final map is in it and I eagerly want to see it, since I heard they datamined the final map boss to be...

  Hide contents

Gharnef.

 

Spoiler

I always find datimined info at gamepress. I just google FEH datamine, and that’s the first result

 

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DATAMINE AAAA-

Spoiler

38 base Spd plus 3 on her bow with a potential Superasset, Eleonora should have no problem getting her effect off. She basically has a stronger Firesweep Bow with no drawbacks. My worry of her not having much Atk isn't an issue either, she's on par with Legendary Alm (even has a superasset there to). She came out good.

I'll admit I don't know much about TMS#FE, but THAT is not what I thought Kiria would look like. Hell, she doesn't even have any way to make follow-up attacks, she's wants you dead in one hit... not sure how she'll be in the long-run, there's a lot of high res units these days...

Mamori pushing bulk to the highest level that can be afforded to her, I see. Aight, nothing much unsurprising here I guess...

Tsubasa has... alright Atk. Of course her Spd is gonna be super high...

 

 

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

That also does mean that Kiran cannot be from the world of TMS since Kiran is implied to be the player, who does not come from the world of TMS.

Implied, yes, and heavily so. But Kiran is also an avatar. Kiran himself is more or less possessed by the player so that the player can interact with the world in which FEH takes place. But where did this avatar's form come from? Did his body come from FE#'s world? Does Kiran have a suppressed consciousness upon which our own is overlaid? Perhaps his memories of the skyscrapers and such come from this suppressed consciousness. This would certainly make things more interesting, to me at least, and is pretty much the only way I could see Kiran himself becoming a character in FEH, summonable or not. It also makes one question the nature of the player. Are we, in some way, an ethereal parasite attached to these player characters, suppressing their wills and consciousness with our own?

Fun food for thought, if nothing else. I just like theorizing. 😛

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

So I went back through the entire quote chain, and your original argument does stand, at least based on how @coldhand25's original post was worded. The world of TMS is based on the real world, but is not the real world.

However, the argument did end up going off-track partway through to include setting:

I don't think it went off-track so much as coldhand25 clarified his stance. Nobody claimed that the TMS world is the same as the real world.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

That also does mean that Kiran cannot be from the world of TMS since Kiran is implied to be the player, who does not come from the world of TMS.

I'm not currently in the FEH world, so Kiran is not me.

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37 minutes ago, Xenomata said:
Spoiler

I'll admit I don't know much about TMS#FE, but THAT is not what I thought Kiria would look like. Hell, she doesn't even have any way to make follow-up attacks, she's wants you dead in one hit... not sure how she'll be in the long-run, there's a lot of high res units these days...

 

Spoilers

Spoiler

She is basically Lilina 2.0. She trades away some support ability for more consistency and better Sabotage capability. At max investment, they should reach the same Atk, assuming Lilina Chills the right target. If we factor in Infantry Pulse though, then Kiria would reach slightly higher Atk due to better Res for Iceberg/Glacies.

Kiria +Atk: 45 Atk
Mirage Rod: 23 Mt

Lilina +Atk: 40 Atk
Forblaze [special]: 27 Mt against Chilled target; 20 Mt against everyone else.

 

Edited by XRay

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26 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

I'm not currently in the FEH world, so Kiran is not me.

You know what I meant. Would it be better if I worded it "Kiran is implied to represent the player" instead, then?

Edited by Ice Dragon

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@Xenomata

Spoiler

I double checked, and yes Kiria is really slow in TMS. Her Spd is tying Mamori's for the lowest of the cast of seven, despite me picking Kiria's faster upgrade and Mamori's slower one. However, it isn't so bad in TMS, since being a standard JRPG and not a standard FE, Spd only affects turn order and dodging, none of that doubling nonsense FE has. It doesn't translate ideally for offense into FEH, but it worked fine for her in her origin game.

 

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9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Would it be better if I worded it "Kiran is implied to represent the player" instead, then?

Sure. Anyway, he doesn't come from the real world, so he might be from the TMS world. Afaik there's no conclusive evidence either way.

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Wait a minute.

Spoiler

Itsuki has five skills?! That's a first for a non-staff free unit.

I wonder whether this is a one-off, or a sign of things to come...

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7 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

Wait a minute.

  Reveal hidden contents

Itsuki has five skills?! That's a first for a non-staff free unit.

I wonder whether this is a one-off, or a sign of things to come...

Spoilers

Spoiler

He is crap as skill fodder though. There is no reason to spend 100 Grails on skill fodder when all those skills can be obtained from the 3*/4* pool.

 

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Wow, we don't even have access to the skill yet and an enemy in the latest Bound Hero Battle already has Lull Atk/Res.

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4 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Wow, we don't even have access to the skill yet and an enemy in the latest Bound Hero Battle already has Lull Atk/Res.

We still don't have access to the skill yet, but enemies all over the place already have Thoron+.

An enemy in Tactics Drills also got the Swift Sparrow Sacred Seal before it was released in the last Tempest Trials.

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3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

We still don't have access to the skill yet, but enemies all over the place already have Thoron+.

An enemy in Tactics Drills also got the Swift Sparrow Sacred Seal before it was released in the last Tempest Trials.

Thoron+ I'm... well, it's not like we're missing it, but there's Silver Weapon+ of every other weapon except Beast Damage, so it's not unique.
Same with Swift Sparrow, we didn't have it but the skill itself exists.

But... this is an entirely new skill that isn't built to be enemy exclusive that the enemy just HAS. Heck, go back to before we got Irene and the enemy was already getting Red Bows.

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48 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Thoron+ I'm... well, it's not like we're missing it, but there's Silver Weapon+ of every other weapon except Beast Damage, so it's not unique.
Same with Swift Sparrow, we didn't have it but the skill itself exists.

But... this is an entirely new skill that isn't built to be enemy exclusive that the enemy just HAS. Heck, go back to before we got Irene and the enemy was already getting Red Bows.

Also, we got enemy bow cavs before Brave Lyn, and enemy blue Fafnirs before Naga.

It's interesting, but I don't think it's very remarkable.

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1 minute ago, Othin said:

Also, we got enemy bow cavs before Brave Lyn, and enemy blue Fafnirs before Naga.

It's interesting, but I don't think it's very remarkable.

I never said anything about "remarkable". Just... mostly unfair really.

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1 minute ago, Xenomata said:

I never said anything about "remarkable". Just... mostly unfair really.

Why unfair? We're getting it tomorrow, well before the BHB will end. And Hero Battles have featured all sorts of things unavailable to us, like 99 HP armors.

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1 minute ago, Othin said:

Why unfair? We're getting it tomorrow, well before the BHB will end. And Hero Battles have featured all sorts of things unavailable to us, like 99 HP armors.

No, no I'm not arguing this, you know as well as I do that Hero Battles use bloated Base Stats for their enemies, ESPECIALLY in terms of HP. You would've had the exact same point if you had said Embla Ward is unavailable to us.

There was never a point to any of this, I'm so sorry for making a freakin comment about one little thing I noticed.

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42 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

No, no I'm not arguing this, you know as well as I do that Hero Battles use bloated Base Stats for their enemies, ESPECIALLY in terms of HP. You would've had the exact same point if you had said Embla Ward is unavailable to us.

There was never a point to any of this, I'm so sorry for making a freakin comment about one little thing I noticed.

I'm not pressing for a point, just confused. But if you'd prefer to stop talking about this, that's fine. I apologize for coming off harshly.

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