Talk about IT'S BYLETH, STOP MAKING THREADS in Smash here

[Fabulously Olivier]

24 minutes ago, Silver Lightning said:

Can you imagine the salt if they had added in YeT aNoThEr FiRe EmBlEm ChArAcTeR, regardless of how unique they are as seen demonstrated recently?

Of course I love that Chrom is in despite everything, and I'm all for delicious salt from people who seem to irrationally hate FE just because of smash, but I like to think of other people too lol

It'll be a cold day in Hell when I care about the jerks who irrationally hate FE because of Smash.

 

In fact, add 5 more FE characters just to spite them.

[Flere210]

I'd say is more irrational to defend every fire emblem inclusion just because we like the character. The amount of representation we are getting from brawl onward is unmatched. Pokemon only surpass that if you count the trainer as 3 characters.  It's undisputably the franchise that received the most love in the internet age. It's pretty obvious people are salty if metroid had to wait for Rydley for 3 games, Zelda and Kirby are not getting anything since Brawl and so on. 

And i don't think that many charcter existing is a good argument either. Only the lords, avatars and few more have a chance, and between them there are many overlaps. That not more than the potential choices other franchises. Sorry Nino fans, i feel your chances are slim.

Marth Tiki, Ike an Avatar(my pick would be Robin) a villain(Edelgard) and someone to complete the weapon triangle would make for a better roster than what we got imo: representing Kaga era, Post Kaga era, Awakening era and 3H, different fighting styles and classes as well as the weapon triangle.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Flere210

[Roland]

You wanna know what's hilarious? Out of all of the characters in this pass, the one that actually ended up having a personal connection to me is Byleth.

I didn't care for Joker and Banjo and I didn't know much about Hero and Terry when they were first announced, but through Smash and playing some of their games (this moreso applies to Hero. I admittedly still need to play a KoF title), I became fans of the characters. But as I said, this was admittedly before Smash. Not saying I don't like Hero or Terry, hell Terry is actually my favorite character out of the whole pass, but without Smash I would not have know who they were.

Point I'm trying to make here is, even though I think all characters are well made and definitely have their own fans, I was hoping the final fighter would be someone from a video game/series that I personally knew in good faith beforehand like the mentioned Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa. A personal favorite of mine if you will.

And in the most hilarious way possible, fate answered that with Byleth. I got what I wished for, at the cost of said character currently being the most controversial character in Smash Ultimate.

Oh well. Nobody said being a Smash fan was easy.

[Silver Lightning]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

You wanna know what's hilarious? Out of all of the characters in this pass, the one that actually ended up having a personal connection to me is Byleth.

I didn't care for Joker and Banjo and I didn't know much about Hero and Terry when they were first announced, but through Smash and playing some of their games (this moreso applies to Hero. I admittedly still need to play a KoF title), I became fans of the characters. But as I said, this was admittedly before Smash. Not saying I don't like Hero or Terry, hell Terry is actually my favorite character out of the whole pass, but without Smash I would not have know who they were.

Point I'm trying to make here is, even though I think all characters are well made and definitely have their own fans, I was hoping the final fighter would be someone from a video game/series that I personally knew in good faith beforehand like the mentioned Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa. A personal favorite of mine if you will.

And in the most hilarious way possible, fate answered that with Byleth. I got what I wished for, at the cost of said character currently being the most controversial character in Smash Ultimate.

Oh well. Nobody said being a Smash fan was easy.

This is mostly my experience as well, having played none of the games these characters were from (no, not even Banjo, the most exposure I ever had to him was Diddy Kong Racing; I was amazed growing up later to find out he had his own series).

Being a Smash fan isn't easy, but being a Smash and Fire Emblem fan is even harder. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

No, attacking characters is not acceptable or rational regardless of nebulous non-factors such as representation. It makes you look like an immature, spoiled child.

 

Let those who like or want that character enjoy it, or be ready to receive the same treatment when your precious pack of pixels is added.

 

If anything, Fire Emblem fans have been the most mature sect of the Smash community, because we don't run Pokemon/Animal Crossing/etc. hate mobs.

 

Also, Incineroar was the worst addition to Smash ultimate. He's lame even by Pokemon standards, and I don't recall a massive hate mob for him. Nor for the literal who that is Terry. Nor for a Ryu clone. Nor for Daisy. Nor for characters who haven't been relevant in 10+ years.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Etheus

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Nor for the literal who that is Terry. 

All of South America and the FGC would like a word with you about that, lol.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

All of South America and the FGC would like a word with you about that, lol.

Like I said. Who? 😋

[Roland]

Just now, Etheus said:

Like I said. Who? 😋

Saying Terry is a literal nobody would be like saying Hero is a literal nobody. Their popularity isn't restricted solely to the US. Not to mention if Fatal Fury didn't exist, we wouldn't have Smash Bros.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Roland said:

Saying Terry is a literal nobody would be like saying Hero is a literal nobody. Their popularity isn't restricted solely to the US. Not to mention if Fatal Fury didn't exist, we wouldn't have Smash Bros.

I was being facetious with that last reply. 

 

But as far as game markets go, South America is far from the biggest one. Hero and Japan, on the other hand, is among the biggest.

 

Not that I was salty about Terry, by the way. I play him a lot. Very fun. Most of my rant was about characters I personally like even. Banjo and Kazooie aren't relevant, but they're great. Castlevania isn't relevant, but it should be. I prefer Ken to Ryu. Etc.

 

Except for Incineroar. Just for not being Decidueye. 😅

[Roland]

5 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Castlevania isn't relevant, but it should be.

If Castlevania isn't relevant, then why does it have it's own Netflix series?

7 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Except for Incineroar. Just for not being Decidueye. 😅

I liked Incineroar. He pulled off the wrestler Pokemon aspect very well. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

If Castlevania isn't relevant, then why does it have it's own Netflix series?

I liked Incineroar. He pulled off the wrestler Pokemon aspect very well. 

As a game franchise. Which has more to do with modern Konami being a worthless company than it has to do with the Castlevania IP in itself. Or the Metal Gear IP. Or the Silent Hills IP. Or the Contra IP. Or anything else Konami is either misusing or not using. 

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Etheus said:

No, attacking characters is not acceptable or rational regardless of nebulous non-factors such as representation. It makes you look like an immature, spoiled child.

Let those who like or want that character enjoy it, or be ready to receive the same treatment when your precious pack of pixels is added.

If anything, Fire Emblem fans have been the most mature sect of the Smash community, because we don't run Pokemon/Animal Crossing/etc. hate mobs.

Also, Incineroar was the worst addition to Smash ultimate. He's lame even by Pokemon standards, and I don't recall a massive hate mob for him. Nor for the literal who that is Terry. Nor for a Ryu clone. Nor for Daisy. Nor for characters who haven't been relevant in 10+ years.

Of course; one obviously shouldn't spout irrational hatred of a character's inclusion or say that others can't enjoy it. Just to be clear though, if someone simply just doesn't enjoy it, and is perfectly calm in their explanation for why they dislike the character's inclusion, then that's fine; right?

 

Anyway, I completely agree about Incineroar; it should've been Decidueye. Decidueye brings a lot more to the table, and it would be nice to see a grass starter get some (sole) representation. But once again, the chance for an interesting character is squandered for a character with stuff we've seen before...

Clones used to see hate mobs, but once they were rebranded as Echo Fighters and I was made clear that they weren't "stealing" slots, the angry mob calmed down and went away almost instantaneously.

[Ottservia]

17 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Anyway, I completely agree about Incineroar; it should've been Decidueye. Decidueye brings a lot more to the table, and it would be nice to see a grass starter get some (sole) representation. But once again, the chance for an interesting character is squandered for a character with stuff we've seen before...

apparently from what I know Decidueye is actually the least popular of the gen 7 starters while Incineroar is the most popular in japan what with the whole "Tiger Mask" thing it's got going on. Popularity in this case trumps interesting move sets I suppose

Edited January 18, 2020 by Ottservia

[Lord_Brand]

I feel like the best thing that could happen for FE fans in Smash is if they converted the FE fighters into a single modular custom fighter akin to the Mii Fighters, only with specific FE characters in place of costumes. First you select a character with a given build - Small, Medium, or Large. Then you choose whether they are Armored or Unarmored; Armored fighters are heavier and harder to knock out, but also move slower and have less aerial mobility, while Unarmored fighters are faster and more agile, but lighter as a result. You choose your FE Fighter's outfit based on whether they are Armored or Unarmored. Then comes the fun part: Weapon Assignment. You can assign different FE weapons to different moveset slots, or choose from presets named after specific classes in FE, such as Mercenary, Fighter, or Hero. You can specialize in one weapon, mix a couple, or even use a little of everything. Once you're done customizing your FE Fighter, you then save them to your FE Fighters list, from which you can select them on the Fighter Roster.

Instead of taking up a roster's worth of slots, FE now only takes up one slot. One highly customizable slot, in which hundreds of FE characters can be represented.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Lord_Brand

[ZeManaphy]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

You wanna know what's hilarious? Out of all of the characters in this pass, the one that actually ended up having a personal connection to me is Byleth.

I didn't care for Joker and Banjo and I didn't know much about Hero and Terry when they were first announced, but through Smash and playing some of their games (this moreso applies to Hero. I admittedly still need to play a KoF title), I became fans of the characters. But as I said, this was admittedly before Smash. Not saying I don't like Hero or Terry, hell Terry is actually my favorite character out of the whole pass, but without Smash I would not have know who they were.

Point I'm trying to make here is, even though I think all characters are well made and definitely have their own fans, I was hoping the final fighter would be someone from a video game/series that I personally knew in good faith beforehand like the mentioned Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa. A personal favorite of mine if you will.

And in the most hilarious way possible, fate answered that with Byleth. I got what I wished for, at the cost of said character currently being the most controversial character in Smash Ultimate.

Oh well. Nobody said being a Smash fan was easy.

Me too. Byleth was the one character who's game I played prior to Smash. I got DQ11 S after seeing the Hero in Smash, loved it. Joker got me interested in Persona, but I don't have a PS4. As Banjo and Kazooie as well as Terry, I was born in 2001, so I never actually played their games, so I'm indifferent towards them. 

The reason FE gets so much representation is because you can't use characters like Corrin or Robin to represent 3 Houses. On the contrary, you can use Link to represent Spirit Tracks and Breath of the Wild at the same time, simply because they are both Link. FE features a completely different cast and premise every time- unlike Zelda and Kirby which feature recurring characters in most of their installments.

[Lord_Brand]

I am amazed Anna hasn't gotten in as a playable character, she's basically to FE what Cid is to FF.

[Flere210]

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

No, attacking characters is not acceptable or rational regardless of nebulous non-factors such as representation. It makes you look like an immature, spoiled child.

Attacking characters is dumb. Attacking the people that pick wich character get in and wich do not is a fair criticism, as is simply clicking "dislike" on a Facebook video. Fighting game live and die by Roster, is one of the most important features in that genre. If they fuck up a character they need to know it so they can learn and improve. Three houses would have been far different whitout all the toxic criticism aimed at Fates. 

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

Let those who like or want that character enjoy it, or be ready to receive the same treatment when your precious pack of pixels is added.

I am perfectly fine whit the criticism when that happen. The happiness of getting them would overshadow the annoyance by an huge margin.

Also, the angry comments will be over in a week, the charcter will be used for years.But a spear user is never going to be in Smash, so we are talking about fantasy Let the angry people vent in peace as Sakurai is not going to hold another direct saying they will remove Byleth. 

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

If anything, Fire Emblem fans have been the most mature sect of the Smash community, because we don't run Pokemon/Animal Crossing/etc. hate mobs.

Why Fire Emblem fans have any reason to feel anger or envy toward another franchise, they are getting an A+ treatment and to ask for more that is going to make them looks like Dudley Dursley when he lamented having only 36 presents. Also, keep in mind that some of the hater are Fire Emblem fans that wanted a different character. Like me. 

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

Also, Incineroar was the worst addition to Smash ultimate. He's lame even by Pokemon standards, and I don't recall a massive hate mob for him. Nor for the literal who that is Terry. Nor for a Ryu clone. Nor for Daisy. Nor for characters who haven't been relevant in 10+ years.

Incineroar is the second fire type starter, not the eight. I agree that there were better option, but pokemon deserving a spot is noncontroversial.

We don't see eye to eye when it comes to old vs new and we know it, but none of the charcter you listed deserve a controversy.

- Daisy was clearly advertised as an Extra, otherwise people would complain a lot. For the same reason there was little complain againist Chrom or Ken

- Terry is part of a DLC that Include Joker. If the DLC included only old af character and was not advertised as a "retro pack" i would consider the criticism fair, even if i would disagree.

Byleth has many elements that lead 

- it's in a pack that included only third party, meaning the people that wanted a third party charaacter get blueballed.

-among people that wanted a first party character, many preferred one from the franchises that are not getting anything since a lot of time. Instead, they got more of the saga whit 7 charcters already. I would call it envy more than anything else. 

-Sakurai said that wanted to put Rex but did not because of time constraint, then it add an even newer character. No surprise some Rex fans are Livid.

-many people don't like rpg or anime, or swords. And JRPG gets a lot of spots this days, mostly filled by anime pretty boys whit a sword. Some feels that they are getting repetitives.

- Three Houses fans themselves where split among 5 factions. Edelgard, Dimitri,Claude, Byleth and Pokemon team. So even among them there are people that are disappointed, expecially because the relic thing kill any chance of another TH character coming.

There is not a group that would be unambigously happy whit Byleth Inclusion, not even the most Diehard fans of Three Houses. They were a powder Keg and it exploded. 

1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

The reason FE gets so much representation is because you can't use characters like Corrin or Robin to represent 3 Houses. On the contrary, you can use Link to represent Spirit Tracks and Breath of the Wild at the same time, simply because they are both Link. FE features a completely different cast and premise every time- unlike Zelda and Kirby which feature recurring characters in most of their installments.

We can think like that because we have been given the best representation of any franchise. I would argue that whit Archetypes being a thing, you can represent the whole franchise quite well by picking 5 or 6 characters from the most important archetypes split between the various age of FE history. I even made an example of roster before.

There is nothing spirit tracks speciphic in Link. There is in Zelda tho, but i am still not sure that every game got something.  And again, Gen 3 and Gen 5(and technically gen 8, but fuck gen 8, they deserve nothing) don't have a pokemon, so you are asking a treatment even better than the one reserved to biggest franchise whit a pool of 1000+ character.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Flere210

[SSbardock84]

Geez, I can finally post. That was dumb. Anyways, I didn't like Byleth being added at first just because he initially seemed like he might not be unique as far as the FE characters go but after watching the video I changed my mind. They added a lot to them and they look pretty awesome. Giving them the other weapon relics and designs that look like the three houses leaders was a pretty smart decision. It looks well and I hope Byleth will end up being one of my favorites. Tbh this is the only character that I'll really care for out of the first season pass. Edit: Well except, Hero, I forgot about him. He's awesome.

Edited January 19, 2020 by SSbardock84

[Anacybele]

I'm excited for Byleth! I was really surprised to see him/her as the fifth DLC character. I expected to see them get in Smash at some point, but not this soon. And I'm amazed at how unique Sakurai managed to make them. At first I was expecting another rather boring sword set. But he incorporated the house leaders' weapons too! That is awesome.

[Silverly]

On 1/18/2020 at 2:20 PM, Etheus said:

Also, Incineroar was the worst addition to Smash ultimate. He's lame even by Pokemon standards, and I don't recall a massive hate mob for him. Nor for the literal who that is Terry. Nor for a Ryu clone. Nor for Daisy. Nor for characters who haven't been relevant in 10+ years.

Actually, while we’re it, I’m surprised that in retrospect Piranha Plant didn’t get nearly as much backlash despite being 1) in a series with a generous amount of representation (that being Mario) and 2) a character that pretty much nobody asked for.  

If there was one addition in Ultimate that didn’t make me merely disappointed or indifferent, but rather made me very angry, it’d be that be stupid plant. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Silverly said:

Actually, while we’re it, I’m surprised that in retrospect Piranha Plant didn’t get nearly as much backlash despite being 1) in a series with a generous amount of representation (that being Mario) and 2) a character that pretty much nobody asked for.  

If there was one addition in Ultimate that didn’t make me merely disappointed or indifferent, but rather made me very angry, it’d be that be stupid plant. 

There was some backlash to that, but it was primarily from those who wanted either Isaac, Shadow, or Walluigi, who were all simultaneously deconfirmed.

 

Also, that direct deconfirmed the Grinch Leak that so many people were putting their hopes and dreams behind, so to say emotions were mixed would be... an understatement.

[vanguard333]

39 minutes ago, Silverly said:

Actually, while we’re it, I’m surprised that in retrospect Piranha Plant didn’t get nearly as much backlash despite being 1) in a series with a generous amount of representation (that being Mario) and 2) a character that pretty much nobody asked for.  

If there was one addition in Ultimate that didn’t make me merely disappointed or indifferent, but rather made me very angry, it’d be that be stupid plant. 

That's because everyone took one look at it and realized that it was Sakurai's surprise joke character for Ultimate. For Melee, it was Pichu. For Brawl, it was ROB. For 4, it was Duck Hunt. Now it's Piranha Plant. The fact that it was a joke character nobody asked for was the point; that's the joke, and, from what I saw, most people just had a good laugh about it the way they usually do for Sakurai's joke characters. 

[Flere210]

1 hour ago, Silverly said:

Actually, while we’re it, I’m surprised that in retrospect Piranha Plant didn’t get nearly as much backlash despite being 1) in a series with a generous amount of representation (that being Mario) and 2) a character that pretty much nobody asked for.  

If there was one addition in Ultimate that didn’t make me merely disappointed or indifferent, but rather made me very angry, it’d be that be stupid plant. 

I refused to buy it and am moderately angry that it got in while Bandana Dee seems to not allowed because he is a "gomba whit an hat. But then, i have 0 attachment to Bandana and only want him because he hold a spear.

[Gregster101]

I still want Bandana Dee in Smash so badly. *zips mouth*

[Silverly]

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

There was some backlash to that, but it was primarily from those who wanted either Isaac, Shadow, or Walluigi, who were all simultaneously deconfirmed.

Also, that direct deconfirmed the Grinch Leak that so many people were putting their hopes and dreams behind, so to say emotions were mixed would be... an understatement.

As someone who was in both categories, the former with me being a Shadow hopeful, I’ll admit those factors didn’t help. It was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back for me since I found Ken and Incineroar to be lame additions. I’ve since gotten over the salt (well... mostly), but that was a long November for me.

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

That's because everyone took one look at it and realized that it was Sakurai's surprise joke character for Ultimate. For Melee, it was Pichu. For Brawl, it was ROB. For 4, it was Duck Hunt. Now it's Piranha Plant. The fact that it was a joke character nobody asked for was the point; that's the joke, and, from what I saw, most people just had a good laugh about it the way they usually do for Sakurai's joke characters. 

I think you’re getting some terms mixed up. Only Pichu was purposefully designed to be a joke character; it was added to literally be Pikachu but worse. R.O.B and Duck Hunt were unexpected picks, but they weren’t intended as jokes at all. Both were important retro characters in Nintendo’s history and were implemented in the game respectfully and accurately. Hell, Wii Fit Trainer would be a better example and even then she’s intended to be taken seriously as an addition. Piranha Plant’s specific reason to being added was something along the lines of Sakurai wanting another “villainous” character added with the Plant being familiar to most gamers. This wasn’t an addition just for laughs. 

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

I refused to buy it and am moderately angry that it got in while Bandana Dee seems to not allowed because he is a "gomba whit an hat. But then, i have 0 attachment to Bandana and only want him because he hold a spear.

Honestly I’m glad I got it free because otherwise I’d be in a similar position and wouldn’t touch the Plant with a ten foot pole. I can’t say I would’ve be personally excited for Bandana Dee (it likely would’ve been an another indifferent addition for me), but I at least would’ve respected it as a choice.