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Talk about IT'S BYLETH, STOP MAKING THREADS in Smash here

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  1. 1. what do you think, the readership

    • I love Byleth!
    • I love Byleth, but not here!
    • What the fuck!


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Piranha Plant doesn't annoy me as much in retrospect, but only because it's actually seen use on my Switch.

 

I take my Switch to family lunch gatherings every Sunday, and Piranha Plant is really popular with my youngest cousins. The one's who are too young to even do basic shit like recover, but that never stops them from having fun.

Edited by Etheus

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4 hours ago, Silverly said:

I think you’re getting some terms mixed up. Only Pichu was purposefully designed to be a joke character; it was added to literally be Pikachu but worse. R.O.B and Duck Hunt were unexpected picks, but they weren’t intended as jokes at all. Both were important retro characters in Nintendo’s history and were implemented in the game respectfully and accurately. Hell, Wii Fit Trainer would be a better example and even then she’s intended to be taken seriously as an addition. Piranha Plant’s specific reason to being added was something along the lines of Sakurai wanting another “villainous” character added with the Plant being familiar to most gamers. This wasn’t an addition just for laughs. 

Key word there being designed. 

I may be getting my examples wrong, but I am pretty certain that, in every Smash game since Melee, there's always at least one character that Sakurai selects simply because no one expects it at all as it is such an out-of-nowhere decision; another example of Sakurai being a trolling creator who loves making his jokes. Piranha Plant was that character for Ultimate. 

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The Misadventures of Byleth in Smash Brothers Ultimate

Prologue:

Sothis: You must join Smash.

Byleth: Huh? But I'm not a third-party character; not even from a new universe. I'm pretty sure that's against the rules.

Sothis: Rules, Schmules. I'm a goddess; I make the rules! Join Smash Brothers already. What in the world are you waiting for!

...

Sothis: How is this?

Byleth: I'm pretty sure this is stealing the lord's Relics.

Sothis: It'll be fine. I asked. Besides, you are Smash's first lance wielder--the bane of blades mind you.

Byleth: I mean, I would've settled pulling from my other strengths, but this is awesome! All that faculty training was so worth it.

 

Part 1a:

Linhardt, Dorothea, & Jigglypuff

Spoiler
 
 
 
2
Spoiler

Dorothea: Aw! This puffball is sooo cute! Let us sing a duet.

Jigglypuff: 🎵Jiggaly...puff...jiggaly...🎵

Dorothea: 🎵Hail to mighty Edelgard...Though...*Yawn* red...Zzz...🎵

Linhardt: I am taking this creature home with me.

Byleth: LINHARDT!!!

 

Raphael, Kirby, & King Dedede

Spoiler

Raphael: *Huff* *Huff* I'm so full. What even is your appetite: a black hole?

Kirby: Poyo!

 

Bernadetta & Luigi

Spoiler
 
 
 
4
Spoiler

Bernadetta: *Sigh* Smash Brothers is so stressful. At least I found this spot where I can cheer Byleth on where no one else can find me. Huh? Who are you? Eeeeek! How did you find my hidey-hole? It was so perfect!

Luigi: Hey, calm down miss. I'm not gonna hurt you. Your secret's safe with me.

Bernadetta: It is?

Luigi: Of course. I'm actually impressed someone found one of my hiding places so quickly.

Bernadetta: Me? Smart? Hang on. You have more than one?

Luigi: Yeah, one for about every stage. You and I seem to be in the same boat.

Bernadetta: I will admit it is kind of nice to have someone to huddle in fear with...I know! I can show you all the best secluded areas in Garreg Mach, if you tell me where all your other hidey holes are.

Luigi: I was just about to explore the monastery myself for such a place! Why don't I come with you and we can find them all together?

Bernadetta: OK! We'll keep an eye on each other, and if anything happens, you can cover for me. Right after this battle! I think someone's looking for us!

Luigi: Of course! *Shudders*

 

 

Caspar, Donkey Kong, & Little Mac

Spoiler

Caspar: Ungh.

Byleth: Caspar, are you all right?

Caspar: I tried sparring with the gorilla.

Byleth: Maybe you should start with the Mii Brawlers.

Caspar: Absolutely not! Gorilla or no gorilla, I'm gonna beat him.

Little Mac: I heard you were looking for boxing lessons. Mind if I tutor you, starting with a couple of rounds at the Home-Run contest.

Caspar: Would I ever? Oh. Ow. Ow. My arm.

Byleth: On second thought, why don't you let him recover first? Caspar here took quite a beating.

Caspar: Professor.

 

 

Ferdinand, Lorenz, Sheik, Peach, & Mario

Spoiler

Peach: Wow! This tea is delicious!

Ferdinand: I know. I know. I am quite the tea connoisseur! I'm still surprised the ninja came.

Sheik: What else can I say? I like tea.

Lorenz: Anyway, is it true that YOU are Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom, milady?

Mario: 😠

 

 

Mercedes, Marianne, Flaynn, & Palutena

Spoiler

Marianne: Wow. You look so much like Archbishop Lady Rhea.

Mercedes: Not only that, but she radiates the charm, charisma, and gentleness of Saint Seiros, or the goddess herself.

Palutena: Ha. Ha. Ha. Considering I'm a goddess, consider their fashion sense a complement on my part.

 

 

That's all I've got for now.

Edited by Morgan--Grandmaster
Misplaced title

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Sylvain at any of the female fighters: THEY'RE ALL SO CUTE, HOW CAN I PICK JUST ONE?!

Mario, Luigi, and Link: We can narrow it down for you. Lay off our princesses! That includes Rosalina too!

Byleth: God damn it Sylvain.

lol (even though the Link and Zelda in Ultimate are not from the same game, I know).

Edited by Anacybele

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I know this is personal, but I need to get this off my chest and I don't really have anywhere else to say. So here it is: If someone you believed was a friend turns around and treats you as if you just shot a man all for saying that you like a character that they don't and throws anything and everything that was between the two of you, then that "friend" was never your friend to begin with. Just a wolf in sheep's clothing, and nothing more. You shouldn't ever let people like that tie you down because they can't accept their opinion isn't the center of the world.

Edited by Roland
Added a sentence.

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52 minutes ago, Roland said:

I know this is personal, but I need to get this off my chest and I don't really have anywhere else to say. So here it is: If someone you believed was a friend turns around and treats you as if you just shot a man all for saying that you like a character that they don't and throws anything and everything that was between the two of you, then that "friend" was never your friend to begin with. Just a wolf in sheep's clothing, and nothing more. You shouldn't ever let people like that tie you down because they can't accept their opinion isn't the center of the world.

As the number 1 Byleth hater, that's seriously fucked up.

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8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Sylvain at any of the female fighters: THEY'RE ALL SO CUTE, HOW CAN I PICK JUST ONE?!

Mario, Luigi, and Link: We can narrow it down for you. Lay off our princesses! That includes Rosalina too!

Byleth: God damn it Sylvain.

lol (even though the Link and Zelda in Ultimate are not from the same game, I know).

Hilarious, though I don't think they need to tell Sylvain to stay away from Rosalina; more likely she'll try to gently tell him that she's not interested, and then the Lumas will escort him out (and that would be the easy way for him to leave). 

Link and Zelda are not from the same game, but, for the past few Zelda games, there has been a very overtly romantic tone to their relationship; it's as if Nintendo relaxed some no-romance rule and the developers went, "Finally!" My favourite example of this is Spirit Tracks; Link and Zelda are just adorable in that game. 

 

Back to Byleth, regarding what you were saying in the other thread, I'm surprised that you don't like the idea of Byleth being Three Houses Trainer. Yes, Byleth can fight, but one of the defining features of Three Houses is that Byleth is also a teacher. Would it not have made sense (and been cool) to have Byleth instruct the House Leaders while they did the actual fighting? Byleth could still pitch in with things like Divine Pulse if you really wanted to see him fight. 

To me at least, it makes more sense than Byleth stealing the House Leaders' Hero's Relics. I don't think Byleth would be comfortable doing that, both because they belong to the students, and because of what Byleth saw happen to the last guy that stole someone else's Hero's Relic...

(Regardless of whether or not Byleth would be able to use them safely, a number of his responses when talking to Rhea after Miklan's chapter could easily be interpreted as Byleth developing an understandable irrational fear of being turned into a monster). 

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17 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Hilarious, though I don't think they need to tell Sylvain to stay away from Rosalina; more likely she'll try to gently tell him that she's not interested, and then the Lumas will escort him out (and that would be the easy way for him to leave). 

Link and Zelda are not from the same game, but, for the past few Zelda games, there has been a very overtly romantic tone to their relationship; it's as if Nintendo relaxed some no-romance rule and the developers went, "Finally!" My favourite example of this is Spirit Tracks; Link and Zelda are just adorable in that game. 

 

Back to Byleth, regarding what you were saying in the other thread, I'm surprised that you don't like the idea of Byleth being Three Houses Trainer. Yes, Byleth can fight, but one of the defining features of Three Houses is that Byleth is also a teacher. Would it not have made sense (and been cool) to have Byleth instruct the House Leaders while they did the actual fighting? Byleth could still pitch in with things like Divine Pulse if you really wanted to see him fight. 

To me at least, it makes more sense than Byleth stealing the House Leaders' Hero's Relics. I don't think Byleth would be comfortable doing that, both because they belong to the students, and because of what Byleth saw happen to the last guy that stole someone else's Hero's Relic...

(Regardless of whether or not Byleth would be able to use them safely, a number of his responses when talking to Rhea after Miklan's chapter could easily be interpreted as Byleth developing an understandable irrational fear of being turned into a monster). 

There were romantic suggestions between Link and Zelda all the way back on the NES. It's not present in every game but there's never been any indication that it's forbidden. Spirit Tracks was also released over ten years ago (does that make anyone else feel old?).

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18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There were romantic suggestions between Link and Zelda all the way back on the NES. It's not present in every game but there's never been any indication that it's forbidden. Spirit Tracks was also released over ten years ago (does that make anyone else feel old?).

It was always there, but it was always subtle, as if it had to be subtle. Spirit Tracks was the first to make it overt, and no longer simply suggestions but an actual romantic tone to their relationship. 

I never said it was forbidden; I just said that the way they were always subtle and leaving it as just something implied in previous games is as if there had been a rule; not that there was actually a rule. 

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8 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

It was always there, but it was always subtle, as if it had to be subtle. Spirit Tracks was the first to make it overt, and no longer simply suggestions but an actual romantic tone to their relationship. 

I never said it was forbidden; I just said that the way they were always subtle and leaving it as just something implied in previous games is as if there had been a rule; not that there was actually a rule. 

Zelda II and The Minish Cap make it pretty overt. If not even more so than Spirit Tracks, which is accompanied by a firm layer of playful wackiness. Of course the two of them share significantly more screen time in that game than any of the others, so there's much more opportunity to develop a relationship in general. Still, there's a kiss in Zelda II and a date in The Minish Cap. Oracle of Ages and Seasons have a kiss too.

Edited by Jotari

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Zelda II and The Minish Cap make it pretty overt. If not even more so than Spirit Tracks, which is accompanied by a firm layer of playful wackiness. Of course the two of them share significantly more screen time in that game than any of the others, so there's much more opportunity to develop a relationship in general. Still, there's a kiss in Zelda II and a date in The Minish Cap.

Huh. I've never actually played Minish Cap (I meant to get it when I was a kid, but, like with Mega Man Battle Network 6, the store stopped selling Gameboy Advance games to make room for DS games before I could). But I thought Zelda spends most of that game (up until the end) turned to stone? How is there a date then?

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Just now, vanguard333 said:

Huh. I've never actually played Minish Cap (I meant to get it when I was a kid, but, like with Mega Man Battle Network 6, the store stopped selling Gameboy Advance games to make room for DS games before I could). But I thought Zelda spends most of that game (up until the end) turned to stone? How is there a date then?

It's the game's opening. They go to the fair together.

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Just now, Jotari said:

It's the game's opening. They go to the fair together.

Oh… I thought they just do that as childhood friends. Is there any indication (subtext, etc.) that it's more than that?

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Just now, vanguard333 said:

Oh… I thought they just do that as childhood friends. Is there any indication (subtext, etc.) that it's more than that?

Nor more nor less than Spirit Tracks I'd hazard (though it's been a while since I played that game so I can't remember every scene). She does win a lottery and rather than choose a prize  for herself she chooses a shield for Link and tells him he looks great and can always protect her with it. Seems to be pretty well entrenched in the ye old childhood romantic interest cliche, but like everything of such nature it depend son how much you personally read into it.

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Nor more nor less than Spirit Tracks I'd hazard (though it's been a while since I played that game so I can't remember every scene). She does win a lottery and rather than choose a prize  for herself she chooses a shield for Link and tells him he looks great and can always protect her with it. Seems to be pretty well entrenched in the ye old childhood romantic interest cliche, but like everything of such nature it depend son how much you personally read into it.

I see. Interesting. I definitely need to get Minish Cap at some point. As for Spirit Tracks, there's:

Spoiler
  1. The very opening of the game, where Link is conducting the Spirit Train while Spirit-Zelda happily flies around (and Link stares at her while she does so) before sitting down inside the train.
  2. Link blushing with his mouth wide open as if awestruck the first time he sees Zelda. The fact that he does so in a very public ceremony gets him scolded by Cole, but Zelda defends Link. 
  3. When you first arrive at Papuchia Village, Zelda asks Link to go swimming with her once she gets her body back. If Link says he can't swim, Zelda offers to teach him.
  4. After the player defeats Byrne, Byrne demands to know how two mere humans were able to beat him. Zelda gives him a classic, "When we work together, nothing can stop us!" And stares at Link while saying that, and Link turns to her and blushes while the background has mysteriously turned very pink and they both stare into each other's eyes... and the whole thing becomes hilarious when they snap back to reality and realize Byrne wasn't listening and is making a clean getaway. 
  5. After regaining her body, the first thing Zelda does is give Link a massive hug. If Link is wearing his green outfit when this happens, his classic pointy hat rises as he blushes awkwardly.
  6. Just before the main credits, Link and Zelda hold hands as they gaze into the sunset. 
  7. If you chose for Link to become a warrior, the end credits scene has Zelda watch Link train through a window and happily wave at him. Link clearly noticed and got distracted, as the next sound the player hears is Link getting his arse handed to him. 
  8. Similarly, in the Engineer ending, Zelda hears Link's train go by the castle, looks out the window, and joyfully waves at him. Cue the sound of the train whistle in the distance. 

And a whole lot more. Yes; they had a lot more time together in Spirit Tracks compared to Minish Cap, but even one of these scenes by itself would be more than is in most Zelda games. 

 

 

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Not sure why we're talking about Link/Zelda in a topic about Byleth, but Link/Zelda in Spirit Tracks was adorable. Link/Zelda in general tends to be adorable when they actually focus on it. It's one of the main reasons why I want Zelda to be Link's companion in BotW2, so they get more chances to interact and do cute stuff.

But, it's time to get back on topic. As far as Byleth's role as a teacher is concerned, I could have advocated for them summoning Dimitri, Edelgard, and Claude as allies in battle, but now that I have the CFS idea, all four of them should be playable in Smash 6.

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When smash 6 will bee out we will likely have the Avatar and lords of FE18(assuming 17 is a remake), so they wilm likely get in in Byleth's place. This, assuming a reboot whit a smaller cast than Ultimate.

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31 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

When smash 6 will bee out we will likely have the Avatar and lords of FE18(assuming 17 is a remake), so they wilm likely get in in Byleth's place. This, assuming a reboot whit a smaller cast than Ultimate.

I don't see it. If they take another lords place, it would be Corrin. Three Houses is far more culturally significant than Fates.

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3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Hilarious, though I don't think they need to tell Sylvain to stay away from Rosalina; more likely she'll try to gently tell him that she's not interested, and then the Lumas will escort him out (and that would be the easy way for him to leave). 

Link and Zelda are not from the same game, but, for the past few Zelda games, there has been a very overtly romantic tone to their relationship; it's as if Nintendo relaxed some no-romance rule and the developers went, "Finally!" My favourite example of this is Spirit Tracks; Link and Zelda are just adorable in that game. 

I would actually argue that The Minish Cap was the first Zelda to have a real romantic undertone between Link and Zelda. They're childhood friends in this game and their little trip through the festival at the beginning of the game might as well be called a date.

But I won't argue with Spirit Tracks having a good relationship between the two as well.

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Back to Byleth, regarding what you were saying in the other thread, I'm surprised that you don't like the idea of Byleth being Three Houses Trainer. Yes, Byleth can fight, but one of the defining features of Three Houses is that Byleth is also a teacher. Would it not have made sense (and been cool) to have Byleth instruct the House Leaders while they did the actual fighting? Byleth could still pitch in with things like Divine Pulse if you really wanted to see him fight. 

To me at least, it makes more sense than Byleth stealing the House Leaders' Hero's Relics. I don't think Byleth would be comfortable doing that, both because they belong to the students, and because of what Byleth saw happen to the last guy that stole someone else's Hero's Relic...

(Regardless of whether or not Byleth would be able to use them safely, a number of his responses when talking to Rhea after Miklan's chapter could easily be interpreted as Byleth developing an understandable irrational fear of being turned into a monster). 

Sure, but Byleth only teaches one of the lords, not all three, and I still just think it would look weird to see Byleth on the sidelines when they can fight very well.

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1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I would actually argue that The Minish Cap was the first Zelda to have a real romantic undertone between Link and Zelda. They're childhood friends in this game and their little trip through the festival at the beginning of the game might as well be called a date.

But I won't argue with Spirit Tracks having a good relationship between the two as well.

Sure, but Byleth only teaches one of the lords, not all three, and I still just think it would look weird to see Byleth on the sidelines when they can fight very well.

There could have been mechanics to have them whip strike foes, highlight weakpoints, or cast healing magic on the lords. It hardly needs to be a passive implementation.

 

Plus, Smash could have always been justified as an instruction.

 

Also, the Byleth never instructs all 3 lords bit is now explicitly false because of the Ashen Wolves dlc.

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5 minutes ago, Etheus said:

There could have been mechanics to have them whip strike foes, highlight weakpoints, or cast healing magic on the lords. It hardly needs to be a passive implementation.

That seems overcomplicated imo.

5 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Also, the Byleth never instructs all 3 lords bit is now explicitly false because of the Ashen Wolves dlc.

Where is this said/shown? And even if it is the case, Byleth was worked on in Smash before this, I'm pretty sure.

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51 minutes ago, Etheus said:

There could have been mechanics to have them whip strike foes, highlight weakpoints, or cast healing magic on the lords. It hardly needs to be a passive implementation.

Plus, Smash could have always been justified as an instruction.

That's what I said. I wouldn't necessarily go for highlighting weakpoints or casting healing spells (as that seems a bit OP), but whip-striking foes could work; it could be a bit like Palutena's auto reticle or Zelda's Din's Fire. In addition:

  • Byleth could also provide a gambit boost for the FInal Smash (or the Final Smash could be ruptured heaven like it is now; either way, Byleth has active involvement without it being overcomplicated). 
  • Byleth can also be the reason they're able to enter and leave the field: rescue + warp (obviously, Byleth can't learn those two spells in-game, but Robin can't use Nosferatu as a Tactician either, so it wouldn't be the first time that liberties have been taken). 

 

59 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I would actually argue that The Minish Cap was the first Zelda to have a real romantic undertone between Link and Zelda. They're childhood friends in this game and their little trip through the festival at the beginning of the game might as well be called a date.

But I won't argue with Spirit Tracks having a good relationship between the two as well.

Sure, but Byleth only teaches one of the lords, not all three, and I still just think it would look weird to see Byleth on the sidelines when they can fight very well.

Funny; that's what Jotari said (the stuff about Minish Cap). I really need to find a way to play that one...

Yes; in the story, Byleth only teaches one lord (except in the prologue; there he teaches all three with some help from Jeralt). But there are plenty of ways to contextualize it so that him instructing all three makes sense. I even made a funny (though admittedly the dialogue's a bit cheesy) scenario that could explain it well: 

Quote

Rhea: ”Congratulations students! We have received an invitation to Smash Bros.! But only one.”

The House Leaders fight for the ticket; it’s a draw. 

Edelgard: “Why not the professor?”

Rhea: “Apparently, they’ve been receiving complaints about the number of swordfighters that our worlds have been sending them.”

Seteth: “Hm... Perhaps they may be better together as a team, rather than apart. I know for a fact that one of their own already cycles between three fighters. If the professor were to guide them...”

Rhea: “An excellent idea, Seteth.”

 

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5 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Funny; that's what Jotari said (the stuff about Minish Cap). I really need to find a way to play that one...

Yes; in the story, Byleth only teaches one lord (except in the prologue; there he teaches all three with some help from Jeralt). But there are plenty of ways to contextualize it so that him instructing all three makes sense. I even made a funny (though admittedly the dialogue's a bit cheesy) scenario that could explain it well: 

It should be available in the Wii U eShop. Maybe the Switch one and 3DS one too, I'm not sure. But I know I played it on Wii U. I also had the original GBA copy too, but I decided to rebuy it because it wasn't expensive and it was fun seeing all those pretty sprites and awesome bright colors on the big TV screen!

Going back to Byleth though, that little scenario of yours does explain it well, yeah. I could be down for it going that way. It is what it is though, and I'm still happy with Byleth in Smash as is.

Edited by Anacybele

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7 hours ago, Roland said:

I know this is personal, but I need to get this off my chest and I don't really have anywhere else to say. So here it is: If someone you believed was a friend turns around and treats you as if you just shot a man all for saying that you like a character that they don't and throws anything and everything that was between the two of you, then that "friend" was never your friend to begin with. Just a wolf in sheep's clothing, and nothing more. You shouldn't ever let people like that tie you down because they can't accept their opinion isn't the center of the world.

Uhh. . .that's not just "not a friend".  That's someone who needs to be cut out of your life entirely, the sooner the better.  It might be slightly understandable if this was something that mattered (like politics), but over a video game?

Actually, that applies to everyone in your life that's like that.  Respect is important!

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Why am I not seeing Gatekeeper banter yet?

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