Where does Byleth place on the canon ranking tier list of Lords?

[Flere210]

Robin can oneshot Chrom, which i rate as the strongest after Ike.

Edith: i still think Chrom > Robin overall, just not necessarily in a stright up fight, especially if they start far apart(not a problem whit ike, has he has the Ragnel beams).

Edited January 18, 2020 by Flere210

[Interdimensional Observer]

In terms of draconic destruction, FE doesn't often do a good job of showing what it looks like, Kurth exhalation aside.

 

TearRing Saga, being an FE in all but name and legal rights, did offer several instances of the physical destruction its dragons could inflict.

• Nothing but a few ruined walls remain of Leda Castle, and surrounding Leda Valley is barren, gray, a little swampy, and monster-filled after 50 years of being inhabited by Earth Guardian "Witch" Dragon Kranion. Said destruction and probably even more left unseen resulted in the disintegration of Leda from a single great kingdom into a bunch of smaller disunited fiefdoms.
• Kranion those 50 years prior did make an attack on Salia Castle, which left it looking like a bland rectangle with some holes in the ceiling, no fancy exterior decoration or structures of any kind at all. Although I don't get why in 50 years time the center of Salia's monarchy didn't renovate and restore the place.
• Nolzeria- It was I think 2-3 years prior to the start of the game when this happened? I'm not sure how long it lasted, but it couldn't have been very long an event I think, no more than a two weeks if that. As Canaan and Reeve discussed peace to end their warring IIRC, Gwenchaos had Water Guardian Dragon Muse annihilate the great city of Reeve. Thousands are stated to have died, and when Runan visits the city, most of its great many buildings bear some scarring.

 

To offer some visual aid:

Spoiler

Leda Valley

 

Leda Castle (this is a more zoomed-in map in compared to the above one).

 

Salia Castle

 

Nolzeria

A Laguz Dragon is on the weaker side of FE ones I'd say. But nonetheless, if a novice and pacifist like Kurthnaga could destroy a tower in a single breath, then a group of experienced ones intending to annihilate could do the same as a single TRS Guardian Dragon.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Icelerate]

36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

In terms of draconic destruction, FE doesn't often do a good job of showing what it looks like, Kurth exhalation aside.

 

The Immaculate one also had a similar feat, albeit weaker than Kurthnaga's. Neither the IO or Kurth are that powerful compared to the top tier dragon in their own games  let alone all of FE. 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

If you don't want to discuss it then just respond. I'm not putting a gun to your head and forcing you to argue. However I don't think your point has merit and I do think you're ignoring my argument. 

That's basically exactly what you're doing, stop it. I don't think your point has merit and I do think you're ignoring my argument. For the last damn time, stop.

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Yes; Robin's a good tactician. But this isn't a tier list about tactics (if it were, you'd have to place Roy and Micaiah a lot higher than they are now, and Corrin would be at the bottom). As a fighter, all evidence points to him being above-average, but nowhere near a powerhouse. He's a jack-of-all-trades without a legendary weapon. In the story, he has to rely on his versatility in fights as he lacks the raw skill or power otherwise, and, on the rare occasion that he is compared to powerhouse characters like Walhart, it is never favourably. 

Nowhere once did I ever mention in any spot Robin's tactical prowess.

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

 Now that I know more about the Sword of Seals, I agree about keeping Roy with the sword at S-Tier. However, Roy without it should be at D-Tier. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Roy's game establish him as a poor fighter? A good tactician, but a poor fighter nonetheless. That fits Micaiah: a good tactician (because she can see the future and is decent at guerilla warfare) but not a good fighter. Micaiah's in D-Tier, so Roy should be as well. 

No, the game doesn't establish Roy to be a "poor" fighter, just not the best. The reason he's in C-tier and not D like Micaiah, is because he's never really shown to need anyone else to help him in an actual fight (at least not that I remember), even without the Binding Blade. Whereas Micaiah (pre-possession) pretty much always relies on Sothe, or someone else, for all the heavy lifting. Therefore, I put her a tier below.

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

No; just no. You can't have Robin in S-Tier and Ike in A-Tier. Even without Ragnell, Ike would wipe the floor with Robin. Ike's skills are extremely well-established to be pretty much the best there is. In a world of Mages, Dragon Riders, Shapeshifters, goddesses, a Social-Darwinist Tyrant who started out on the battlefield, Ike is just a guy with a sword, and that's all he needs to be, as he comes out on top anyway. And before you say I'm using the same evidence you used for Robin: 

1. You used that as justification for keeping Robin at S-Tier, and I'm also using it to say Ike without Ragnell should be at S-Tier
2. I can use facts and events to show Ike overcoming supernatural obstacles through his skill alone, whereas no such evidence exists for Robin, as his own game establishes him to not be anywhere near the strongest character. 

Ike brings down the Black Knight; only needing Ragnell because of the Black Knight's armour's enchantment. Ike brings Ashera, and while he was channeling Yune's power at the time, the game had made it clear that Yune was in a much weaker state than Ashera because Ashera got to have a proper nap, while Yune was fought and imprisoned in the Medallion against her will, so a fair bit of that was Ike himself. I could list more, but I'll stop there. 

Ike is above S-Tier; he's SS-Tier. 

Calm down. There's a reason I put a winky-face; I was joking.

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

That's basically exactly what you're doing, stop it. I don't think your point has merit and I do think you're ignoring my argument. For the last damn time, stop.

I am pointedly not ignoring you're argument while you are ignoring mine. You've even cut off the part of my quote where I address your argument in this very response. Perhaps if I frame it in a different way.

Your argument: Binding Blade says Eliwood is the best Knight in Lycia and thus better than Hector.

Correct? That's it, right? I understand you. Not ignored at all. I take that point and implement it into my own response.

My Argument: Okay, it's true that Eliwood is a better fighter than Hector during the interim of Blazing and Binding Blade. You're argument acknowledged. However in the broader context of when they are at their best total, Hector with Armads during the course of Blazing Blade is stronger than Eliwood during the interim of the two games as legendary weapons make a big difference. And both Eliwood and Hector are unable to access their legendary weapons during the interim of the two games. That is my argument and you've done zero to aknowledge it, much less refute it. So I refer back to the tier list I presented before,, starting with strongest and moving to weakest:

Hector (FE7) with Armads

Eliwood (FE7) with Durandal

Eliwood (between games)

Hector (between games)

Hector (FE7) without Armads

Eliwood (FE7) without Durandal

Hector (FE6) (able to take on several war dragons, possibly stronger than his FE7 self without Armads)

Eliwood (FE6) bedridden

If you really aren't ignoring my argument,  then tell me which part of this list you think is inaccurate.

(and to also reiterate, I'm not forcing you to have this conversation with me, if you really don't want to talk about it then you're free to just stop. I won't get offended by that)

Edited January 18, 2020 by Jotari

[Whisky]

19 hours ago, Jotari said:

Robin is also the only character with a reasonable recognition of the title of Lord that has absolutely no personal or legendary weapon at all. The closest post Awakening stuff have managed to come up with is Thoron.

The Elibe legendary weapons were so powerful their existence fucked up the seasons of the world. That sounds like it's more potent than even Jugdral's Holy Weapons. And the Sword of Seals is the best of them all. I think a decent case could be made saying the Sword of Seals is on par with the Naga tome (though there is probably some degradation at work in the years since they were created and Roy's army uses them).

Yahn's boast is exactly what gives credence to the idea that war dragons aren't as strong as natural dragons.

Yes the Divine weapons in FE6 are not as powerful in game as they were in the past. That’s stated in game. There’s no way of knowing how much weaker they are. Just not strong enough to change the laws of physics anymore.

 

What do you mean by saying war dragons are not as strong as natural dragons? That’s never stated in game. Jahn specifically states that he is stronger than most dragons. So an average natural dragon would be weaker than Jahn which would put them around the same strength as the war dragons. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Whisky

[darkblade2814]

Sothis does warn Byleth that there are things divine pulse won't reverse, things that are fated to happen, to be precise

[Flere210]

On 1/18/2020 at 6:09 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

In terms of draconic destruction, FE doesn't often do a good job of showing what it looks like, Kurth exhalation aside.

 

TearRing Saga, being an FE in all but name and legal rights, did offer several instances of the physical destruction its dragons could inflict.

• Nothing but a few ruined walls remain of Leda Castle, and surrounding Leda Valley is barren, gray, a little swampy, and monster-filled after 50 years of being inhabited by Earth Guardian "Witch" Dragon Kranion. Said destruction and probably even more left unseen resulted in the disintegration of Leda from a single great kingdom into a bunch of smaller disunited fiefdoms.
• Kranion those 50 years prior did make an attack on Salia Castle, which left it looking like a bland rectangle with some holes in the ceiling, no fancy exterior decoration or structures of any kind at all. Although I don't get why in 50 years time the center of Salia's monarchy didn't renovate and restore the place.
• Nolzeria- It was I think 2-3 years prior to the start of the game when this happened? I'm not sure how long it lasted, but it couldn't have been very long an event I think, no more than a two weeks if that. As Canaan and Reeve discussed peace to end their warring IIRC, Gwenchaos had Water Guardian Dragon Muse annihilate the great city of Reeve. Thousands are stated to have died, and when Runan visits the city, most of its great many buildings bear some scarring.

 

To offer some visual aid:

  Reveal hidden contents

Leda Valley

 

Leda Castle (this is a more zoomed-in map in compared to the above one).

 

Salia Castle

 

Nolzeria

A Laguz Dragon is on the weaker side of FE ones I'd say. But nonetheless, if a novice and pacifist like Kurthnaga could destroy a tower in a single breath, then a group of experienced ones intending to annihilate could do the same as a single TRS Guardian Dragon.

Wich is one of the things that make Bahamuth Lagoon so fun. You can torch entire forest, invade a castle by tearing apart the wall whut lighting, freeze rivers to cross them and so on. After a big battle the landscape is changed entirely. I should play it again just to say if the map design hold up to the battlefield changing spells.

Some Langrisser games also allow to crack some tiles whit big spells, but i don't remember if that can be used for truly relevant thing outside of removing Throne defense bonuses. But independent Erwin can beat Ike whitout trying anyway

[Whisky]

On 1/18/2020 at 9:42 AM, Icelerate said:

How do we know for certain that Kurthnaga loses to Ike in a fight? Kurthnaga's presence alone caused the Laguz Allaince, including Ike to retreat despite having routed the Daein army. Even the BK's mere presence can't do that. Kurthnaga is on a higher power level than Tibarn, Black Knight and Ike. 

That’s true, but that’s a contradiction in the game. Which holds more weight, that cutscene, or having Kurthnaga as a playable unit and having lower stats than the dragons Ike fights as enemies? Dheginsea is a lot more powerful than either of those two though.

[Whisky]

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

Wich is one of the things that make Bahamuth Lagoon so fun. You can torch entire forest, invade a castle by tearing apart the wall whut lighting, freeze rivers to cross them and so on. After a big battle the landscape is changed entirely. I should play it again just to say if the map design hold up to the battlefield changing spells.

Some Langrisser games also allow to crack some tiles whit big spells, but i don't remember if that can be used for truly relevant thing outside of removing Throne defense bonuses. But independent Erwin can beat Ike whitout trying anyway

Oh yeah, Bahamut Lagoon. I miss that game. I want to play it again now that you mention it. I haven’t played Langrisser but I’m thinking of trying it out.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Having the power of a goddess at your back is pretty rad. Divine Pulse is a huge point in Byleth's favor. Their sword is strong, and while breakable, is also reparable. They may be the strongest single main character. 

Alm is very high if Mila's Turnwheel is counted, but this one is debatable - can't anyone use the Turnwheel? Celica can use her own, so it's not a unique power. Both are high if the Wheel is counted, mid-low if not.

Ike defeats God (admittedly, with power borrowed from another god-figure). He's high up there. Micaiah is weak on her own, but if considered when possessed by Yune, she's higher (nowhere near Byleth though).

Chrom can defeat Grima, which sounds similar, but Grima is more super-powerful-dragon than deity. Also, only Robin can permanently vanquish Grima, so they might have the edge.

Corrin can defeat Anankos, who again straddles between super-dragon and actual god. Yato starts weak, but can become very powerful. Becoming a qilin counts for something, right? High-tier.

Marth, Roy, Eirika/Ephraim, all defeat powerful dragons/demons with very strong swords (and a lance). They're all in the same neighborhood, mid-tier. The last two might be weaker individually, sonce it's a team act.

Seliph could defeat Manfroy and Julius, but if you didn't screw up, it's Julia killing her dragon-possessed brother (anyone can kill Manfroy). Still, with two holy blood types, I'll put him ahead of Sigurd (whose best victory came against... Langbart? Reptor? IDK). Both low-mid.

Leif is a little lower than these two. No great feats to his name, and no holy weapon. Low-tier.

I'd put Eliwood, Hector, and Lyndis in the same region. They defeat a sorceror and his pet dragon, with the help of one of the Eight Heroes. Hell, Ninian is stronger than them, and she can't even fight.

Bonus: among the Three Houses lords, Dimitri goes on a one-man warpath for five years, but defeats the weakest final boss in lore. Edelgard is strong with her two crests, but her greater strength is in charismatic leadership - admittedly, beating the Immaculate One is big. Claude dishes against Nemesis with Byleth, but again, doesn't have any other great feats. First two in mid-tier, Claude in mid-low.

[Flere210]

I am not convinced on Dimitri beating the weakest boss. Edelgard human form is already very powerful, and Hegemon should be way above that. 

Nemesis imo seems the weaker  by virtue of being "just" an incredbly strong human taht could be defeated 1vs 1.

[Jotari]

24 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Alm is very high if Mila's Turnwheel is counted, but this one is debatable - can't anyone use the Turnwheel? Celica can use her own, so it's not a unique power. Both are high if the Wheel is counted, mid-low if not.

Anyone can use Ragnell or Armads, but we'd still factor them into the character in question.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

53 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Anyone can use Ragnell or Armads, but we'd still factor them into the character in question.

Armads, sure, based on FE6 that's true.

Ragnell I'm not positive on. But if it's like Alondite, then anyone with SS swords can wield it.

My point was, I put more stock in a non-transferrable, unique power like Divine Pulse, than in a transferrable one like the Turnwheel.

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

I am not convinced on Dimitri beating the weakest boss. Edelgard human form is already very powerful, and Hegemon should be way above that. 

Nemesis imo seems the weaker  by virtue of being "just" an incredbly strong human taht could be defeated 1vs 1.

Edelgard is strong, but as a regular person - even with her Crests, she's defeated several times on non-CF routes. Hegemon form definitely puts her beyond human levels, but not that much stronger than a regular Demonic Beast, IMO.

Nemesis killed the Goddess, and that was before getting his Crest. He's only defeated by some of the strongest Nabateans - even then, he either wasn't killed, or he was brought back from the dead. Plus, when you and Claude fight him, he draws power from the other 10 Elites.

[Jotari]

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Armads, sure, based on FE6 that's true.

Ragnell I'm not positive on. But if it's like Alondite, then anyone with SS swords can wield it.

My point was, I put more stock in a non-transferrable, unique power like Divine Pulse, than in a transferrable one like the Turnwheel.

Edelgard is strong, but as a regular person - even with her Crests, she's defeated several times on non-CF routes. Hegemon form definitely puts her beyond human levels, but not that much stronger than a regular Demonic Beast, IMO.

Nemesis killed the Goddess, and that was before getting his Crest. He's only defeated by some of the strongest Nabateans - even then, he either wasn't killed, or he was brought back from the dead. Plus, when you and Claude fight him, he draws power from the other 10 Elites.

I think Nemesis killed Sothis in her sleep. And the fact that he draws most of his power from the other 10 Elites would be a strike against him in 1 on 1 combat. Though I think the cutscene involving him does demonstrate that Byleth probably needed Claude's help to beat him. Though, why exactly are we talking about the strongest final bosses in Three Houses?

Edited January 22, 2020 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Though, why exactly are we talking about the strongest final bosses in Three Houses?

Basically, to assess the canon strength of the Lords who defeat them. In this case, the 10 Elites would count to Claude and Byleth's credit, because they're present for the battle against Nemesis.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I think Nemesis killed Sothis in her sleep.

I'll agree it's not as impressive as, say, Ike and Yune and company defeating Ashera. But it raises an odd question - could anyone have killed Sothis in her sleep? I would assume that most people wouldn't be able to harm her even in her sleep - after all, she wouldn't be much of a god if she were that vulnerable. Nemesis probably possessed exceptional power even before taking the Crest and Sword, unless Sothis is much more vulnerable than I would expect. 

[Jotari]

36 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Basically, to assess the canon strength of the Lords who defeat them. In this case, the 10 Elites would count to Claude and Byleth's credit, because they're present for the battle against Nemesis.

Yeah, but so were all of Claude and Byleth's other allies on that map. And not just the named characters, but faceless soldiers too.

[Jingle Jangle]

I believe that Byleth is on the upper end of lords, top 5 at least.

What he was going for him is:

• Years of experience being a mercenary.
• Sword of the Creator which even in it's weaken state is on par with the other crest weapons. Being able to transform into a whip is a added bonus.
• the major Crest of Flames one of the more helpful crests to have
• Divine Pulse even if the rules about it are vague.
• Being fused to Sothis enhances his abilities by a significant amount. 

Major feats:

• Defeated Nemesis with some help Claude
• Able to cut through space time
• Took down Rhea in her Immaculate one form with the combined effort of Edelgard.
• Fell down a chasm and lived

Even though he been caught off guard by other forces. In a straight up fight the dude is rather difficult to take down.

[vanguard333]

7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I’ll agree it's not as impressive as, say, Ike and Yune and company defeating Ashera. But it raises an odd question - could anyone have killed Sothis in her sleep? I would assume that most people wouldn't be able to harm her even in her sleep - after all, she wouldn't be much of a god if she were that vulnerable. Nemesis probably possessed exceptional power even before taking the Crest and Sword, unless Sothis is much more vulnerable than I would expect. 

Anyone can kill a bear with a small rock while the bear sleeps; it doesn’t mean the bear isn’t a 400+ pound creature that can rip up a car with a few swipes of its paws. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Anyone can kill a bear with a small rock while the bear sleeps; it doesn’t mean the bear isn’t a 400+ pound creature that can rip up a car with a few swipes of its paws. 

Bold of you to include me in "anyone". I doubt I'd know where to begin.

I get the point, certainly - Sothis can be recognized as a goddess for her feats, but she's still as vulnerable as any person. I don't necessarily know how true that is - to use gameplay examples, there are lots of characters from other games (GBA, Jugdral) who can survive multiple direct weapon attacks while asleep. Meanwhile, many powerful characters are essentially invulnerable to damage, aside from by certain weapons (Ashnard, Ashera, Gharnef all come to mind). If you snuck up on any of these characters on their sleep, and stabbed them in the heart (let's say Gharnef keeps Imhullu under his pillow), I have to imagine that they would wake up, promptly kill their attempted assassin, and fall back asleep for an extra 15 minutes.

We never see Sothis as a unit, so it's possible she's totally different, and could, in fact, be killed in her sleep by an ordinary bandit. If I were to place bets, though, it'd be that there was something special about Nemesis, or about the (unknown?) weapon he used, that enabled him to kill Sothis.

[Druplesnubb]

The entire reason Sothis fell asleep to begin with was because she had completely exhausted her energy to revive Fodlan. She should be pretty weak relatively. if nothing else it should be possible for a regular human to kill her because a regular human did kill her, unless Nemesis used some kind of special trick.

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that Three Houses has a way higher baseline than most other games in that literal superpowers is common in much of the upper class. Dimitri's crest is the most notable when it comes to pure force alone, but there's a lot of crests that can give you superior strength, speed, durability and magic ability. Being famed in such a setting is way more notable than being famed in a setting with more normal humans. If Ike went up against Edelgard or Dimitri he owuld likely be way more skilled than they are, but he would be heavily outclassed in pure strength (except when souped up by Yune).

In general, a lot of the arguments here are just baffling. Robin surprise stabbed Chrom with a knife once which means Robin is somehow "stronger" than him. If a lord's army can defeat a certain boss it's treated as if that lord can defeat said boss in 1on1 combat. And then there's all the arguments to the effect of "this dragon can destroy buildings by breathing fire on them and if this guy sticks a sword into the dragon it dies which means this guy is "strong" enough to singlehandedly destroy buildings somehow" What?

[Flere210]

23 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

The entire reason Sothis fell asleep to begin with was because she had completely exhausted her energy to revive Fodlan. She should be pretty weak relatively. if nothing else it should be possible for a regular human to kill her because a regular human did kill her, unless Nemesis used some kind of special trick.

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that Three Houses has a way higher baseline than most other games in that literal superpowers is common in much of the upper class. Dimitri's crest is the most notable when it comes to pure force alone, but there's a lot of crests that can give you superior strength, speed, durability and magic ability. Being famed in such a setting is way more notable than being famed in a setting with more normal humans. If Ike went up against Edelgard or Dimitri he owuld likely be way more skilled than they are, but he would be heavily outclassed in pure strength (except when souped up by Yune).

In general, a lot of the arguments here are just baffling. Robin surprise stabbed Chrom with a knife once which means Robin is somehow "stronger" than him. If a lord's army can defeat a certain boss it's treated as if that lord can defeat said boss in 1on1 combat. And then there's all the arguments to the effect of "this dragon can destroy buildings by breathing fire on them and if this guy sticks a sword into the dragon it dies which means this guy is "strong" enough to singlehandedly destroy buildings somehow" What?

No, superpowers are not clearly stated, but they are there in every game. You just cannot break trough the scales of a Manakete whitout super strenght for example, and not many of them have weak points. 

This is how powerscaling work. Dragons usually can take an hit from other dragons, wich means that to hurt them, you need to hit as hard as a dragon, or at least close enought. The alternative is to think that people like Marth kill dragons by dodging every attack and always targeting the eyes, but those still require superpowers, in the form of super speed/ultra instinct instead of super strenght. And even if you want to give all the credit to leggendary weapons, the character still need to get close enought to use them, wich again require either super toughness or super speed. 

It's either that everyone is a Charles Atlas Superhuman  or that the story of most games make 0 sense.

 

Edit: no, ike can't destroy a castle, because. His attacks are castle level in the sense that they can hurt a being more tough than a castle, but pure force is not enought to destroy a castle, you need a certain amount of force distributed over a large surface. Ike can produce enought force to destroy a small section of a cadtle, but lacks the AoE to destroy all of it. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Flere210

[Alastor15243]

17 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

No, superpowers are not clearly stated, but they are there in every game. You just cannot break trough the scales of a Manakete whitout super strenght for example, and not many of them have weak points. 

This is how powerscaling work. Dragons usually can take an hit from other dragons, wich means that to hurt them, you need to hit as hard as a dragon, or at least close enought. The alternative is to think that people like Marth kill dragons by dodging every attack and always targeting the eyes, but those still require superpowers, in the form of super speed/ultra instinct instead of super strenght. And even if you want to give all the credit to leggendary weapons, the character still need to get close enought to use them, wich again require either super toughness or super speed. 

It's either that everyone is a Charles Atlas Superhuman  or that the story of most games make 0 sense.

 

Edit: no, ike can't destroy a castle, because. His attacks are castle level in the sense that they can hurt a being more tough than a castle, but pure force is not enought to destroy a castle, you need a certain amount of force distributed over a large surface. Ike can produce enought force to destroy a small section of a cadtle, but lacks the AoE to destroy all of it. 

Also, I generally just assume that something resembling "Ki" is a thing in this universe, which explains why there are combat techniques that can literally leech the life from another human being or forcibly swap places with somebody three spaces away on the other side of a wall. A lot of the skills in this game just do not make sense unless you assume that magic users aren't the only ones who can break the laws of physics.

Plus, in more modern games, women who look like supermodels are regularly depicted as being a match in raw strength for men built like brick shithouses and even werewolves, so sexual dimorphism and basic biology are completely out the window in this universe.

[Flere210]

Gameplay and story segregation plague many RPG. One scenes the party is fighting evenly whit a guy that survived a bombardment unschated, and the next dungeon you need to solve the puzzle/find the key even if you have 20 spells that should realistically blast the door open.

[Druplesnubb]

59 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

You just cannot break trough the scales of a Manakete whitout super strenght for example

Citation needed

Quote

Dragons usually can take an hit from other dragons, wich means that to hurt them, you need to hit as hard as a dragon, or at least close enought.

Citation needed again. How sure can you be that a dragon can take a direct hit from another dragon's blast? Especially a blast from someone like Kurthnaga, who is the biggest and most powerful dragon around. Mantis shrimps and pistol shrimps can output some ridiculous force, but that doesn't mean that can survive a hit of that same force.

Dragon breaths are mostly heat and force, both of which large creatures who breath fire would be naturally resistant towards. Most human characters in Fire Emblem (who don't use magic) will use piercing weapons meant to pierce the targets's skin, blood vessels and organs. These are very different things. A good analogy is how a bear can easily shrug off hits that would kill a human, but if you put a blade in its gut it will die just like a human. A tiny hammer is relatively harmless, but a tiny knife is lethal.

Quote

The alternative is to think that people like Marth kill dragons by dodging every attack and always targeting the eyes, but those still require superpowers, in the form of super speed/ultra instinct instead of super strenght. And even if you want to give all the credit to leggendary weapons, the character still need to get close enought to use them, wich again require either super toughness or super speed.

Very few characters are ever shown attacking dragons one on one, and those who are will generally have some kind of superpowers through their blood, weapon or outside force. Many legendary weapons are indeed shown as increasing a character's strength, speed and dexterity. Good examples are how Roy's animations changes when he gets the Binding Blade or how the Jugdral holy weapons will straight up buff a character's stats.

Quote

His attacks are castle level in the sense that they can hurt a being more tough than a castle

Once again, citation needed. What makes you think Kurthnaga is able to survive that blast any better than the castle did? And even if his scales were as hard as rock, they are a thin layer over softer flesh while a castle would be solid stone all the way in. Not saying that Ike can't cut through rock, he probably can seeing how he wields Ragnell and gets blessed by Yune later on. But him theoretically being able to kill Kurthnaga doesn't really prove it.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Druplesnubb