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Where does Byleth place on the canon ranking tier list of Lords?


Jotari
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6 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Citation needed

Citation needed again. How sure can you be that a dragon can take a direct hit from another dragon's blast? Especially a blast from someone like Kurthnaga, who is the biggest and most powerful dragon around. Mantis shrimps and pistol shrimps can output some ridiculous force, but that doesn't mean that can survive a hit of that same force.

Because it's common sense based on what happen in the lore. If mundane weapons used by average joes can kill dragon, then they would not cause all that destruction because a battalion of archers would be their end.  Also, at least in echoes the shield that give the most defense is made of dragon scales, wich imply that the scales of Archaneia dragons are at least harder than steel. 

14 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Very few characters are ever shown attacking dragons one on one, and those who are will generally have some kind of superpowers through their blood, weapon or outside force. Many legendary weapons are indeed shown as increasing a character's strength, speed and dexterity. Good examples are how Roy's animations changes when he gets the Binding Blade or how the Jugdral holy weapons will straight up buff a character's stats.

Good things we are comparing lords and not Raphael vs Barst then. The people that fought dragons are either lords or people that can be used as measuring sticks to powerscale lords. 

15 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Once again, citation needed. What makes you think Kurthnaga is able to survive that blast any better than the castle did? And even if his scales were as hard as rock, they are a thin layer over softer flesh while a castle would be solid stone all the way in. Not saying that Ike can't cut through rock, he probably can seeing how he wields Ragnell and gets blessed by Yune later on. But him theoretically being able to kill Kurthnaga doesn't really prove it.

Ike does not need to kill a castle, he need to kill Byleth. Personally i think he can cut a wal and maybe destroy a larger section whit Ragnell beams. It's basically like noble phantasm in fate. An A rank anti-fortress NP cause much more destruction than an A rank anti unit NP, but they are equally good at killing a single target.

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Should we consider that Ike, in the meta sense of Fire Emblem by IS, is often called THE strongest/greatest fighter?

Edited by Slumber
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I would say "not entirely".

On one hand, being called the strongest, even if it's by IS itself, doesn't mean it's true. Ike has always been hyped to a degree. It's warranted to an extent... but only to an extent.

And on the other hand, even if he's the strongest, that still doesn't say he's the most powerful.

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10 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Should we consider that Ike, in the meta sense of Fire Emblem by IS, is often called THE strongest/greatest fighter?

He was called that pre Three Houses so no that statement is outdated. But Ike is the strongest lord prior to 3H.

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22 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Citation needed

Attack a manakete with any character. What happens? Unless they are using a Wyrmslayer or a Divine Weapon, not much.

That being said, most characters usually do need a legendary weapon to do much damage to a dragon, so that feat could be given to the weapons.

22 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Citation needed again. How sure can you be that a dragon can take a direct hit from another dragon's blast? Especially a blast from someone like Kurthnaga, who is the biggest and most powerful dragon around. Mantis shrimps and pistol shrimps can output some ridiculous force, but that doesn't mean that can survive a hit of that same force.
 

Kurthnaga can fight other dragons in RD, and they can survive an attack from his breath.

Also, he is definitely not the biggest or strongest dragon. Dhegisnea is.

22 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Dragon breaths are mostly heat and force, both of which large creatures who breath fire would be naturally resistant towards. Most human characters in Fire Emblem (who don't use magic) will use piercing weapons meant to pierce the targets's skin, blood vessels and organs. These are very different things. A good analogy is how a bear can easily shrug off hits that would kill a human, but if you put a blade in its gut it will die just like a human. A tiny hammer is relatively harmless, but a tiny knife is lethal.

Very few characters are ever shown attacking dragons one on one, and those who are will generally have some kind of superpowers through their blood, weapon or outside force. Many legendary weapons are indeed shown as increasing a character's strength, speed and dexterity. Good examples are how Roy's animations changes when he gets the Binding Blade or how the Jugdral holy weapons will straight up buff a character's stats.

You can choose to attack a dragon 1v1 with any character you want. This is a game. You have that control. And most characters can fight dragons with Wyrmslayers. Or magic, which other non dragon characters can also survive.

22 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Once again, citation needed. What makes you think Kurthnaga is able to survive that blast any better than the castle did? And even if his scales were as hard as rock, they are a thin layer over softer flesh while a castle would be solid stone all the way in. Not saying that Ike can't cut through rock, he probably can seeing how he wields Ragnell and gets blessed by Yune later on. But him theoretically being able to kill Kurthnaga doesn't really prove it.

 

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20 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I would say "not entirely".

On one hand, being called the strongest, even if it's by IS itself, doesn't mean it's true. Ike has always been hyped to a degree. It's warranted to an extent... but only to an extent.

I'd say it's completely warranted. He is by far the most skilled fighter among the FE lords. 

 

13 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

He was called that pre Three Houses so no that statement is outdated. But Ike is the strongest lord prior to 3H.

I think it's more accurate to say that the statement is up for renewal. Would you say that Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri or Claude are greater fighters than Ike?

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3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I'd say it's completely warranted. He is by far the most skilled fighter among the FE lords. 

Not sure on most skilled, either.

Strongest, sure, won't deny that. Outside that, though...

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19 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Not sure on most skilled, either.

There's not a single other lord who trains non-stop.

And the ones who do train regularly, like Chrom, are also said to be not that skilled, but just very strong. There's Eliwood, who's skilled but not that strong and doesn't really consider fighting as a priority, and Lyn, who we never really see reach some kind of zenith as a sword fighter. We see her like, 6 months out after she leaves home. Ike's whole goal, meanwhile, is to straight up surpass the greatest swordsman on his continent. And we see him do that.

Dmitri or Ephraim might be the only ones who would rival Ike in terms of combat skill, but Ike has leagues more practical experience than Ephraim and spends all of his days either training, or actually fighting in combat. Dmitri is straight up the only one who would be arguable since he spends years of his life fighting off armies by himself, and even then, after he breaks, he seems to favor pure power over diligence and finesse.

Edited by Slumber
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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

There's not a single other lord who trains non-stop.

And the ones who do train regularly, like Chrom, are also said to be not that skilled, but just very strong. There's Eliwood, who's skilled but not that strong and doesn't really consider fighting as a priority, and Lyn, who we never really see reach some kind of zenith as a sword fighter. We see her like, 6 months out after she leaves home. Ike's whole goal, meanwhile, is to straight up surpass the greatest swordsman on his continent. And we see him do that.

Dmitri or Ephraim might be the only ones who would rival Ike in terms of combat skill, but Ike has leagues more practical experience than Ephraim and spends all of his days either training, or actually fighting in combat. Dmitri is straight up the only one who would be arguable, and even then, after he breaks, he seems to favor pure power over diligence and finesse.

This. Ike's growth in skill and power is made extremely clear, and he naturally (writing-wise) grows into the most powerful swordsman in all of Tellius. No other FE lord is established to be anywhere near that level: (anyone who knows about the lords where I put "??" please fill in the blanks)

  • Marth is established as a trained fencer, but nothing too special or remarkable. 
  • Alm is trained by one of the best knights in the continent, but that places him at around Path of Radiance Prologue Ike, and he's never shown to get any stronger.
  • Celica is never established as being particularly remarkable with swords or tomes; her strength lies in that she can use both. 
  • Sigurd: what Slumber says below
  • Seliph what Slumber says below
  • Roy is established as a poor fighter and much more of a strategist than a swordsman.
  • Lyn: what Slumber said.
  • Eliwood: what Slumber said.
  • Hector: what Slumber says below
  • Ephraim: what Slumber said. 
  • Erika: what Slumber says below
  • Micaiah: she's a relatively talented light mage, but her skill is in the back, giving commands. 
  • Chrom: what Slumber said
  • Robin: another Jack-of-all-trades like Celica.
  • Lucina: She's established as around Chrom's equal; what she lacks in raw power compared to him is made up for in determination. 
  • Corrin: Established as a timid fighter who relies on the raw power of the Yato and being a Manakete, and even then, it's sometimes not enough: he only beats Xander in Birthright because Xander let him win. 
  • Edelgard is a powerhouse thanks to her two crests, but outside that, she's a bit like Robin and Celica. 
  • Claude's skill lies in unconventional approaches; he's nothing particularly special.
  • Dimitri: what Slumber said. 
Edited by vanguard333
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6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

This. Ike's growth in skill and power is made extremely clear, and he naturally (writing-wise) grows into the most powerful swordsman in all of Tellius. No other FE lord is established to be anywhere near that level: (anyone who knows about the lords where I put "??" please fill in the blanks)

  • Marth is established as a trained fencer, but nothing too special or remarkable. 
  • Alm is trained by one of the best knights in the continent, but that places him at around Path of Radiance Prologue Ike, and he's never shown to get any stronger.
  • Celica is never established as being particularly remarkable with swords or tomes; her strength lies in that she can use both. 
  • Sigurd ??
  • Seliph ??
  • Roy ??
  • Lyn: what Slumber said.
  • Eliwood: what Slumber said.
  • Hector ??
  • Ephraim: what Slumber said. 
  • Erika ??
  • Micaiah: she's a relatively talented light mage, but her skill is in the back, giving commands. 
  • Chrom: what Slumber said
  • Robin: another Jack-of-all-trades like Celica.
  • Lucina: She's established as around Chrom's equal; what she lacks in raw power compared to him is made up for in determination. 
  • Corrin: Established as a timid fighter who relies on the raw power of the Yato and being a Manakete, and even then, it's sometimes not enough: he only beats Xander in Birthright because Xander let him win. 
  • Edelgard is a powerhouse thanks to her two crests, but outside that, she's a bit like Robin and Celica. 
  • Claude's skill lies in unconventional approaches; he's nothing particularly special.
  • Dimitri: what Slumber said. 

We can infer that Hector is probably around Eliwood level, with more raw power, since the two meet up to spar for fun pretty regularly. But we also know that, despite not being as good of a fighter as Hector, Eliwood can still keep up with him with his wits. So this probably translates to Eliwood having more skill, or at least is able to think his battles through better than Hector. So Hector's probably more Chrom-like, maybe just less clumsy.

Edited by Slumber
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Just now, Slumber said:

We can infer that Hector is probably around Eliwood level, with more raw power, since the two meet up to spar for fun pretty regularly. But we also know that, despite not being as good of a fighter as Hector, Eliwood can still keep up with him with his wits. So this probably translates to Eliwood having more skill, or at least is able to think his battles through better than Hector.

Thanks. I have yet to play that one or Sacred Stones (my first FE game was Smash Bros. Melee Path of Radiance). 

By the way, is there anything on my list of the FE lords that you disagree with? I just want to make sure that the list is accurate. 

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2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

This. Ike's growth in skill and power is made extremely clear, and he naturally (writing-wise) grows into the most powerful swordsman in all of Tellius. No other FE lord is established to be anywhere near that level: (anyone who knows about the lords where I put "??" please fill in the blanks)

  • Marth is established as a trained fencer, but nothing too special or remarkable. 
  • Alm is trained by one of the best knights in the continent, but that places him at around Path of Radiance Prologue Ike, and he's never shown to get any stronger.
  • Celica is never established as being particularly remarkable with swords or tomes; her strength lies in that she can use both. 
  • Sigurd ??
  • Seliph ??
  • Roy ??
  • Lyn: what Slumber said.
  • Eliwood: what Slumber said.
  • Hector ??
  • Ephraim: what Slumber said. 
  • Erika ??
  • Micaiah: she's a relatively talented light mage, but her skill is in the back, giving commands. 
  • Chrom: what Slumber said
  • Robin: another Jack-of-all-trades like Celica.
  • Lucina: She's established as around Chrom's equal; what she lacks in raw power compared to him is made up for in determination. 
  • Corrin: Established as a timid fighter who relies on the raw power of the Yato and being a Manakete, and even then, it's sometimes not enough: he only beats Xander in Birthright because Xander let him win. 
  • Edelgard is a powerhouse thanks to her two crests, but outside that, she's a bit like Robin and Celica. 
  • Claude's skill lies in unconventional approaches; he's nothing particularly special.
  • Dimitri: what Slumber said. 

We know that they all get stronger from experience throughout the games. Obviously so does Ike, but you said that Alm “is never shown to get any stronger”. 

Also, isn’t Celica learning Ragnarok and Omega Raknarok am impressive magic feat?

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10 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Thanks. I have yet to play that one or Sacred Stones (my first FE game was Smash Bros. Melee Path of Radiance). 

By the way, is there anything on my list of the FE lords that you disagree with? I just want to make sure that the list is accurate. 

I believe Sigurd and Seliph are trained fighters. Sigurd was in a military academy with Quan, Eldigan and Arvis, so it's very likely that he's highly trained. And he's generally considered to be Eldigan's equal, and Eldigan is basically the Camus equivalent of Jugdral. But we don't know if he's an exceptional fighter because of his military training, or because he has innate super powers, but he's definitely a skilled fighter, and considered as such.

Seliph was raised to fight the Granvale Empire by Sigurd's squire and strategist. Oifey(And Shannan) is very heavily implied to have been training the kids under his care in between gens 1 and 2. But again, Seliph has even more super powers than his dad did, so it's tough to say how much of his strength comes from the training and how much comes from the literal dragon blood flowing through his veins.

That aside, the rest seems accurate. Eirika doesn't have any explicit combat feats and isn't really considered anything crazy, especially compared to her brother.

Edited by Slumber
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49 minutes ago, Whisky said:

We know that they all get stronger from experience throughout the games. Obviously so does Ike, but you said that Alm “is never shown to get any stronger”. 

Also, isn’t Celica learning Ragnarok and Omega Raknarok an impressive magic feat?

From what I've seen, Fire Emblem usually seems to treat the level-up as Gameplay & Story Segregation (link below). I meant that we're never shown in the story that Alm gets any stronger, unlike Ike. 

 

50 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

I don't see Alm being able to fight off Rudolph, a guy that is above freaking one-man army Camus, at the beginning of the game. 

Ike is the lord that get an explicit shonen arc, but most lord get an implicit one.

Alm doesn't fight off Rudolph; Rudolph refuses to fight him because he wants Alm to win; the plan relies on Alm winning. It's an interesting case of Gameplay & Story Integration (link below), as it is reflected in both the story and the gameplay. 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStoryIntegration

 

49 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I believe Sigurd and Seliph are trained fighters. Sigurd was in a military academy with Quan, Eldigan and Arvis, so it's very likely that he's highly trained. And he's generally considered to be Eldigan's equal, and Eldigan is basically the Camus equivalent of Jugdral. But we don't know if he's an exceptional fighter because of his military training, or because he has innate super powers, but he's definitely a skilled fighter, and considered as such.

Seliph was raised to fight the Granvale Empire by Sigurd's squire and strategist. Oifey(And Shannan) is very heavily implied to have been training the kids under his care in between gens 1 and 2. But again, Seliph has even more super powers than his dad did, so it's tough to say how much of his strength comes from the training and how much comes from the literal dragon blood flowing through his veins.

That aside, the rest seems accurate. Eirika doesn't have any explicit combat feats and isn't really considered anything crazy, especially compared to her brother.

Thank you. I'll fill in the list. 

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Whisky dude, you're not supposed to take hp and such literally. Characters taking a sword directly t othe chest and continuing as if nothing happened is meant to be an abstraction for gameplay purposes. Also, the half a doze nunits you see on the map are in most of the games abstractions for much larger fighting forces.

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Gameplay/story segregation is when there is a contradiction between the gameplay and the story. If there’s no contradiction, then  you can look at how the gameplay works.

This is a game. Of course the gameplay matters.

In regards to level, no, I wouldn’t take the numbers too literally. But level is basically a characters amount of experience. People learn and grow through experience. Logically, characters fighting throughout a war will of course grow stronger/more skilled. 

In regards to HP, a character can get cut by a sword and survive, injured. Who’s to say that it hit a vital?

Edit: Are you guys actually arguing that Alm at the beginning of the game, with no combat experience, is just as strong/skilled as he is at the end of the game after gaining experience from fighting in a war, getting a promotion, learning skills like the Scenscale, and defeating Duma? (With help)

Edited by Whisky
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1 hour ago, Whisky said:

Edit: Are you guys actually arguing that Alm at the beginning of the game, with no combat experience, is just as strong/skilled as he is at the end of the game after gaining experience from fighting in a war, getting a promotion, learning skills like the Scenscale, and defeating Duma? (With help)

We're not saying he's exactly the same. Yes; he gets the power-up from the wizard, and he gets more used to being on the battlefield. But we don't see any particular feats of strength/skill. We already see him instantly be good at everything he needs to be good at right from the get-go, so there's no sense that he does indeed grow (outside the power-up). For instance, he may have been inexperienced, but there's no sense of that; everything suggests that he is at home on the battlefield right from the get-go. 

For a tactical example, his first time as leader has him win a siege on Zofia's capital city on his first try; it makes so much of what he does in part 3 pale in comparison; hindering any sense of growth. Similarly, for strength, Berkut showing up would've been a good time to have Alm show growth by having Berkut win the first time. Instead, Berkut just keeps getting beat over and over again. No sense of growth for Alm. 

Does that make sense?

Edited by vanguard333
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4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

This. Ike's growth in skill and power is made extremely clear, and he naturally (writing-wise) grows into the most powerful swordsman in all of Tellius. No other FE lord is established to be anywhere near that level: (anyone who knows about the lords where I put "??" please fill in the blanks)

  • Marth is established as a trained fencer, but nothing too special or remarkable. 
  • Alm is trained by one of the best knights in the continent, but that places him at around Path of Radiance Prologue Ike, and he's never shown to get any stronger.
  • Celica is never established as being particularly remarkable with swords or tomes; her strength lies in that she can use both. 
  • Sigurd: what Slumber says below
  • Seliph what Slumber says below
  • Roy is established as a poor fighter and much more of a strategist than a swordsman.
  • Lyn: what Slumber said.
  • Eliwood: what Slumber said.
  • Hector: what Slumber says below
  • Ephraim: what Slumber said. 
  • Erika: what Slumber says below
  • Micaiah: she's a relatively talented light mage, but her skill is in the back, giving commands. 
  • Chrom: what Slumber said
  • Robin: another Jack-of-all-trades like Celica.
  • Lucina: She's established as around Chrom's equal; what she lacks in raw power compared to him is made up for in determination. 
  • Corrin: Established as a timid fighter who relies on the raw power of the Yato and being a Manakete, and even then, it's sometimes not enough: he only beats Xander in Birthright because Xander let him win. 
  • Edelgard is a powerhouse thanks to her two crests, but outside that, she's a bit like Robin and Celica. 
  • Claude's skill lies in unconventional approaches; he's nothing particularly special.
  • Dimitri: what Slumber said. 

I wouldn't say its accurate that Corrin only won against Xander because Xander gave up. I do think Xander gave up, but Corrin probably could have won anyway. He manages to beat Ryoma in Conquest after all and given their duality I think it's safe to say Zander and Ryoma are on par.

31 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

We're not saying he's exactly the same. Yes; he gets the power-up from the wizard, and he gets more used to being on the battlefield. But we don't see any particular feats of strength/skill. We already see him instantly be good at everything he needs to be good at right from the get-go, so there's no sense that he does indeed grow (outside the power-up). For instance, he may have been inexperienced, but there's no sense of that; everything suggests that he is at home on the battlefield right from the get-go. 

For a tactical example, his first time as leader has him win a siege on Zofia's capital city on his first try; it makes so much of what he does in part 3 pale in comparison; hindering any sense of growth. Similarly, for strength, Berkut showing up would've been a good time to have Alm show growth by having Berkut win the first time. Instead, Berkut just keeps getting beat over and over again. No sense of growth for Alm. 

Does that make sense?

Well Alm and co do note how difficult it was to fight Burkut when he was assisted by just two guys. And then later they handily beat Berkut assisted by way more guys and even with super evil powers. So considering they note how difficult it was in the beginning under less powerful circumstances and they manage to still win in more obviously powerful circumstances, that's some indication of progression. Of course Alm never duels Berkut 1 on 1 (outside of briefly in one FMV) so it's a case of trying to use pitched battles to determine individual strength.

Also obviously Alm defeating Duma single handedly is a massive achievement on his part; and I say single handedly as einherjar and nosferateau glitches aside Alm is the only one who can damage Duma after a certain point in gameplay and I see no reason why that shouldn't be an indication of the canon.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I wouldn't say its accurate that Corrin only won against Xander because Xander gave up. I do think Xander gave up, but Corrin probably could have won anyway. He manages to beat Ryoma in Conquest after all and given their duality I think it's safe to say Zander and Ryoma are on par.

Corrin outright realizes solely from the fact that they won that Xander gave up. Before Elise's death, Xander was wiping the floor with Corrin and was about to win. 

 

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well Alm and co do note how difficult it was to fight Burkut when he was assisted by just two guys. And then later they handily beat Berkut assisted by way more guys and even with super evil powers. So considering they note how difficult it was in the beginning under less powerful circumstances and they manage to still win in more obviously powerful circumstances, that's some indication of progression. Of course Alm never duels Berkut 1 on 1 (outside of briefly in one FMV) so it's a case of trying to use pitched battles to determine individual strength.

Also obviously Alm defeating Duma single handedly is a massive achievement on his part; and I say single handedly as einherjar and nosferateau glitches aside Alm is the only one who can damage Duma after a certain point in gameplay and I see no reason why that shouldn't be an indication of the canon.

True; it is always a pitched battle, which just makes it even harder to tell if Alm ever actually does get any stronger (outside his power-up courtesy of the wizard). 

Wait; single-handedly? I thought the whole point was supposed to be Alm and Celica together bringing down Duma? Alm's Mary Sue nature strikes again Defeating Duma is admittedly impressive, although:

  • He's using the sword designed to kill them should they go mad.
  • Duma is a literal rotting shell of what he used to be.

 

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4 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Corrin outright realizes solely from the fact that they won that Xander gave up. Before Elise's death, Xander was wiping the floor with Corrin and was about to win. 

 

Was he? Well perhaps I'm misremembering then. Or perhaps we could pull Conquest Corrin is stronger than Birthright Corrin (though one could even suggest that beating Ryoma 1 on 1 didn't happen in the canon of Conquest as you can let other units into the room eventually, even though just smacking him one is way easier in gameplay than that damn corridor of death).

6 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Wait; single-handedly? I thought the whole point was supposed to be Alm and Celica together bringing down Duma? Alm's Mary Sue nature strikes again Defeating Duma is admittedly impressive, although:

  • He's using the sword designed to kill them should they go mad.
  • Duma is a literal rotting shell of what he used to be.

 

Celcia just provides moral support. Alm is the one doing the shield throwing and skull impaling. Doubly so  in the original Gaiden where she provides crits to Alm by standing next to him. And even in Shadows of Valentia we have no fmv or anything showing them together. It's just Alm doing his maneuver and after he's done and about to collapse Celica runs over to catch him. As far as we can judge anyone in the series, Alm is the closest we can say to a character that has single handedly defeated a dragon, as even Duma aside he fights White Dragons during his trial to get Falchion (which would actually be the only instance in the series of anyone ever beating a dragon without using magic or a dragon slaying weapon). And even as a shell of his former self, when that former self is a freaking Divine Dragon that still makes the former self a laser beam shooting beast of a creature.

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9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Was he? Well perhaps I'm misremembering then. Or perhaps we could pull Conquest Corrin is stronger than Birthright Corrin (though one could even suggest that beating Ryoma 1 on 1 didn't happen in the canon of Conquest as you can let other units into the room eventually, even though just smacking him one is way easier in gameplay than that damn corridor of death).

Or we could just chalk up the power-level inconsistencies to Fates' bad writing?

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Celcia just provides moral support. Alm is the one doing the shield throwing and skull impaling. Doubly so  in the original Gaiden where she provides crits to Alm by standing next to him. And even in Shadows of Valentia we have no fmv or anything showing them together. It's just Alm doing his maneuver and after he's done and about to collapse Celica runs over to catch him. As far as we can judge anyone in the series, Alm is the closest we can say to a character that has single handedly defeated a dragon, as even Duma aside he fights White Dragons during his trial to get Falchion (which would actually be the only instance in the series of anyone ever beating a dragon without using magic or a dragon slaying weapon). And even as a shell of his former self, when that former self is a freaking Divine Dragon that still makes the former self a laser beam shooting beast of a creature.

True, though those are all basically dragon zombies; presumably not as deadly as the living version. Still impressive, though I bet Ike would've not only cleared the trial, but be waiting at the other end and looking as if he's wondering what took Alm so long. 

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6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I think it's more accurate to say that the statement is up for renewal. Would you say that Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri or Claude are greater fighters than Ike?

Byleth>Ike>Dimitri>Edelgard>Claude IMO. 

Byleth's sword of the creator can cut mountains by hype. It hasn't done that on panel though but it is made out of Sothis, a being whose daughter's skin can guard against city busting nukes so I think the hype is valid even though mountain level>city level because Sothis>Rhea. Also, Byleth's presence changes the tide of war drastically and part of it is due to his strength. Ike's best feat is slaying Ashera but that is done when Yune channels all her power into him temporarily in the cut-scene. 

Dimitri is physically very strong and trains the most out of the three house leaders due to his desire for revenge. He's a lot like Ike in that regard but he has a crest as well. Though Ike's final promotion was because of Yune's blessing and a direct blessing from the goddess>having an indirect blessing from the goddess via crests. Edelgard spends less time training and more time plotting. Same goes with Claude but unlike Edelgard he doesn't have two crests like she does nor the drive that she does. 

6 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And on the other hand, even if he's the strongest, that still doesn't say he's the most powerful.

Why would strongest not mean most powerful? If I said this tower is the biggest, it by definition implies that it is also the largest. 

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5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Why would strongest not mean most powerful? If I said this tower is the biggest, it by definition implies that it is also the largest. 

Truthfully, this is something that can be very subject to what one defines the words.

At least how I interpret it, power isn't just strength. So, being the strongest doesn't mean you're the most powerful if you aren't the most dexterous, fastest, resilient, intelligent, etc.

For your tower definition, it depends if you mean big in height, big in length, big in width, an average of the three dimensions, etc. With large being or not the length and width, or just the height, or all three, etc.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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