Why do people ship Edlegard and Byleth?

[Kiran_]

2 hours ago, Lunarly said:

so in other words... the game defaults you to silver snow? Silver Snow is the default option because you don't have to do anything to get it, as opposed to Crimson Flower where you do have to do stuff (Edelgard C+ Support, visit the coronation, and choose to spare Edelgard). Yeah it's easy to unlock CF route as long as you have the information but, still doesn't change the fact you don't have to do anything to get to SS route and the game pushes you into it if you miss one of the flags.

But to get Silver Snow you do have to do stuff. You have to avoid supporting Edelgard, decline the coronation and choose to kill Edelgard at Rhea's request. To anyone playing through the game that would be the natural progression. You have to know to purposefully miss/change one of those flags, otherwise you'd default into getting all of them.

The game is called Three Houses, and the marketing was specifically Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude. Not Rhea, Dimitri and Claude. You choose Edelgard in the Crimson Flower route and logic dictates you'd follow and support her. You have to specifically go against the path laid out for you, to get the 'hidden' Silver Snow path. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Kiran_

[Sid Starkiller]

30 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

You have to avoid supporting Edelgard, decline the coronation and choose to kill Edelgard at Rhea's request.

Not "and", "or". Skip any one step and CF is denied you. If you don't get Edelgard's supports, you don't get the option to go to Enbarr (she'll instead tell you she's going without inviting you). If you don't go to Enbarr with her, you don't get the option to spare her (the options are "Kill her" or "...", as if hesitating without actually joining her). So yeah, SS is default.

[Wuzzy]

1 hour ago, Kiran_ said:

But to get Silver Snow you do have to do stuff. You have to avoid supporting Edelgard, decline the coronation and choose to kill Edelgard at Rhea's request. To anyone playing through the game that would be the natural progression. You have to know to purposefully miss/change one of those flags, otherwise you'd default into getting all of them.

The game is called Three Houses, and the marketing was specifically Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude. Not Rhea, Dimitri and Claude. You choose Edelgard in the Crimson Flower route and logic dictates you'd follow and support her. You have to specifically go against the path laid out for you, to get the 'hidden' Silver Snow path. 

Yeah avoiding the c+ support and coronation is the same thing as doing nothing. Again, if you do literally nothing, the game will push you into Silver Snow no matter what. Just because the flags are easy to pin down, doesn't mean it's the default route since you still have to actively do something to get CF route. Natural progression doesn't mean anything because it's subjective, not everyone is going to play the game the same way like you do. 

Also just because you managed to get CF route, doesn't mean every single person out there was able to. 

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Kiran_ said:

But to get Silver Snow you do have to do stuff. You have to avoid supporting Edelgard, decline the coronation and choose to kill Edelgard at Rhea's request. To anyone playing through the game that would be the natural progression. You have to know to purposefully miss/change one of those flags, otherwise you'd default into getting all of them.

The game is called Three Houses, and the marketing was specifically Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude. Not Rhea, Dimitri and Claude. You choose Edelgard in the Crimson Flower route and logic dictates you'd follow and support her. You have to specifically go against the path laid out for you, to get the 'hidden' Silver Snow path. 

No you don't. You can go to the coronation and support Edelgard and still get Silver Snow. There is no way to not have Silver Snow available for you as an option. The inverse is not true for Crimson Flower.

And missing the coronation scene is more easily done than you give credit. I think after 11 months of monastery exploration most players would not be incessantly talking to every unit in the game. Doubly so if Black Eagles isn't your first route and you've done all this before. Crimson Flower isn't the most esoteric thing to get, but it is still easily missable.

[Vince777]

"Hell yeah" is way too overly enthusiastic but I paired them on their route, yeah.

Edelgard has pretty much sky-rocketed to my favourite FE character.

 

[Mylady]

I don't like the ship, I find it unhealthy and boring. Lord x Avatar are the most popular ships by default. Edelgard  being canonically a LGBT lord, other than avatar, makes her x Bylass even more popular because there's little official representation of this kind of relationship in the franchise. 

 

So, I don't ship it but I understand why other people like the pairing 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Mylady

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Most of Edelgard x Byleth is with the female version which I find EXTREMELY overrated and only liked because "Yuri" no one really explains why for any other reason just that its hot that's it...(Dimitri/Claude/Felix x Bylass is definitely WAY better...)The male version with her actually feels a lot better since I seen more reasons for that pair but not much talk for it at least it benefits for being underrated at least. Guyleth at least have better pairings for him that's exclusively popular for him than his female counterpart which really only has Edelgard not much creativity imo (ie Lysithea, Bernie, a bit of Ingrid, Rhea, Manuela, Hilda probably some other smaller choices). But hey there's obviously people out there that prefer Byleth with other people than Edelgard at least.

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Mylady said:

I don't like the ship, I find it unhealthy and boring. Lord x Avatar are the most popular ships by default. Edelgard  being canonically a LGBT lord, other than avatar, makes her x Bylass even more popular because there's little official representation of this kind of relationship in the franchise. 

 

So, I don't ship it but I understand why other people like the pairing 

I'm curious; why do you think it's unhealthy and boring?

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

I mean...

If I were in Byleth’s shoes, maybe not? Not to mention living the quieter life might be better.

Personally, I feel there are better ships for both genders (and better ships for Edelgard, too.)

I’ll mention Lysithea here, for Byleth.

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, Mage Goddess Lysithea said:

Most of Edelgard x Byleth is with the female version which I find EXTREMELY overrated and only liked because "Yuri" no one really explains why for any other reason just that its hot that's it...(Dimitri/Claude/Felix x Bylass is definitely WAY better...)The male version with her actually feels a lot better since I seen more reasons for that pair but not much talk for it at least it benefits for being underrated at least.

I'm not sure what these reasons are that you think apply to Edelgard x MByleth but not Edelgard x FByleth.

Personally I like Edelgard x FByleth better but that's because

• (a) I always have a baseline preference for MxM and FxF pairings in fiction, though there are certainly plenty of straight pairings I enjoy a lot, and
• (b) the same-sex ship is a nice thematic fit for a route about fighting for social justice and against tradition. [I have multiple LGBT friends who reaaally like the ship, and I'm pretty sure that's a big reason.]

But I definitely feel that the core relationship is the same and that if you like one version you should probably like the other.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I'm curious; why do you think it's unhealthy and boring?

Unhealthy I expect would be because Edelgard's dependency on Byleth might come across as a bit like a crutch. Boring, well that would be up to personal interpretation I guess.  But any pairing with Byleth stands a fair chance of being critisized as boring given it's basically always a one sided conversation.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm not sure what these reasons are that you think apply to Edelgard x MByleth but not Edelgard x FByleth.

Personally I like Edelgard x FByleth better but that's because

• (a) I always have a baseline preference for MxM and FxF pairings in fiction, though there are certainly plenty of straight pairings I enjoy a lot, and
• (b) the same-sex ship is a nice thematic fit for a route about fighting for social justice and against tradition. [I have multiple LGBT friends who reaaally like the ship, and I'm pretty sure that's a big reason.]

But I definitely feel that the core relationship is the same and that if you like one version you should probably like the other.

There's more reason for male I've seen while for female is just more petty no one applies both as a whole if they do its a very small minority.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Mage Goddess Lysithea

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm not sure what these reasons are that you think apply to Edelgard x MByleth but not Edelgard x FByleth.

Personally I like Edelgard x FByleth better but that's because

• (a) I always have a baseline preference for MxM and FxF pairings in fiction, though there are certainly plenty of straight pairings I enjoy a lot, and
• (b) the same-sex ship is a nice thematic fit for a route about fighting for social justice and against tradition. [I have multiple LGBT friends who reaaally like the ship, and I'm pretty sure that's a big reason.]

But I definitely feel that the core relationship is the same and that if you like one version you should probably like the other.

Seems a bit like grasping imo. Of course anyone can derive anything they want from a piece of art, I just don't really think that's what the designers were going for. If they were, the pope wouldn't have been a sexy young (looking) woman.

[Dark Holy Elf]

3 hours ago, Mage Goddess Lysithea said:

There's more reason for male I've seen while for female is just more petty no one applies both as a whole if they do its a very small minority.

Once again, please cite that "reason" that you've danced around.

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Seems a bit like grasping imo. Of course anyone can derive anything they want from a piece of art, I just don't really think that's what the designers were going for.

I don't know what the designers were going for, and honestly I don't really care. It's a pretty easy read and a lot of people have made it, including me but more importantly LGBT players who have often felt poorly represented by this series in the past.

Incidentally, I think there are good reasons that Rhea was designed to be pretty and motherly rather than your stereotypical old male pope, but that would probably deserve its own thread.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

7 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Once again, please cite that "reason" that you've danced around.

 

I don't know what the designers were going for, and honestly I don't really care. It's a pretty easy read and a lot of people have made it, including me but more importantly LGBT players who have often felt poorly represented by this series in the past.

Incidentally, I think there are good reasons that Rhea was designed to be pretty and motherly rather than your stereotypical old male pope, but that would probably deserve its own thread.

Its obvious what it is but too much to go through in some social media places but there's no dancing around....

Edited January 28, 2020 by Mage Goddess Lysithea

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, Mage Goddess Lysithea said:

Its obvious what it is but too much to go through in some social media places but there's no dancing around....

Might not be as obvious as you think as I'm at a loss as to what you're talking about.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Seems a bit like grasping imo. Of course anyone can derive anything they want from a piece of art, I just don't really think that's what the designers were going for. If they were, the pope wouldn't have been a sexy young (looking) woman.

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Incidentally, I think there are good reasons that Rhea was designed to be pretty and motherly rather than your stereotypical old male pope, but that would probably deserve its own thread.

Regardless of what it may have been for, it does benefit the story as the player is more likely to think "suspicious" or "corrupt" at the sight of a typical old male pope (as they usually are portrayed in fiction as just that) and the motherly aspect to her design does reflect aspects of her personality, while also making her harsher side all the more intimidating through contrast when that harsher side is revealed. So, it ultimately was a beneficial decision.

One could make similar arguments about Edelgard: one could argue that she would've ended up looking like Hardin, Rudolph, Arvis and all the other red-clad emperors if not for fanservice. It wouldn't be a good argument as there's no way of knowing that for sure, nor is there too much evidence for it, but even if it were the case, it is a decision that does benefit the story and character in similar ways; the design paints a strong contrast between her and all those other red-clad emperors in a way that reflects what makes her character different.

If they are indeed examples of fanservice, then they are good examples, as they also benefit the story and character writing. Certainly a lot better than certain previous examples of fanservice in FE...

1 hour ago, Mage Goddess Lysithea said:

Its obvious what it is but too much to go through in some social media places but there's no dancing around....

It's not obvious at all; one reason being that I don't understand what you are saying. This sentence is very incoherent. 

[Jotari]

51 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Regardless of what it may have been for, it does benefit the story as the player is more likely to think "suspicious" or "corrupt" at the sight of a typical old male pope (as they usually are portrayed in fiction as just that) and the motherly aspect to her design does reflect aspects of her personality, while also making her harsher side all the more intimidating through contrast when that harsher side is revealed. So, it ultimately was a beneficial decision.

One could make similar arguments about Edelgard: one could argue that she would've ended up looking like Hardin, Rudolph, Arvis and all the other red-clad emperors if not for fanservice. It wouldn't be a good argument as there's no way of knowing that for sure, nor is there too much evidence for it, but even if it were the case, it is a decision that does benefit the story and character in similar ways; the design paints a strong contrast between her and all those other red-clad emperors in a way that reflects what makes her character different.

If they are indeed examples of fanservice, then they are good examples, as they also benefit the story and character writing. Certainly a lot better than certain previous examples of fanservice in FE...

It's not obvious at all; one reason being that I don't understand what you are saying. This sentence is very incoherent. 

Oh I agree, it's better Rhea is a woman, for variety if nothing else. Just that if it really was meant to be a story about tearing down the patriarchy then it probably would have been an old white guy in charge.

[vanguard333]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh I agree, it's better Rhea is a woman, for variety if nothing else. Just that if it really was meant to be a story about tearing down the patriarchy then it probably would have been an old white guy in charge.

Oh; I agree with that. Incidentally, the route where the player fights beside Edelgard against the establishment is the same one where the player is reluctantly allied with an old very white guy (Thales) who hates Rhea because of something that happened to his ancestors that frankly had it coming to them. Irony.

Though, to be fair to Dark Holy Elf, I don't think she meant that Crimson Flower is an anti-patriarchy route; just an anti-establishment route, which is fair. …Although, I don't think there's any evidence of the establishment in Three Houses being against same-sex relationships, though it would make sense (in terms of worldbuilding) for the Crest-&-bloodline-obsessed nobility to be against it.

[Sid Starkiller]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Oh; I agree with that. Incidentally, the route where the player fights beside Edelgard against the establishment is the same one where the player is reluctantly allied with an old very white guy (Thales) who hates Rhea because of something that happened to his ancestors that frankly had it coming to them. Irony.

Though, to be fair to Dark Holy Elf, I don't think she meant that Crimson Flower is an anti-patriarchy route; just an anti-establishment route, which is fair. …Although, I don't think there's any evidence of the establishment in Three Houses being against same-sex relationships, though it would make sense (in terms of worldbuilding) for the Crest-&-bloodline-obsessed nobility to be against it.

Considering the pope herself is apparently bi, I can't imagine she would have a problem with it.

And if she did, Mommy would just tell her to shut her mouth.

[vanguard333]

34 minutes ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Considering the pope herself is apparently bi, I can't imagine she would have a problem with it.

And if she did, Mommy would just tell her to shut her mouth.

I was referring to the nobility system, as I thought the next part of the sentence had made clear. 

That is a good point though, and thanks; that helps the point I was making. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by vanguard333

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Considering the pope herself is apparently bi, I can't imagine she would have a problem with it.

And if she did, Mommy would just tell her to shut her mouth.

I could see Rhea pulling off a "one rule for me, one rule for humans" philosophy.

[Dark Holy Elf]

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Though, to be fair to Dark Holy Elf, I don't think she meant that Crimson Flower is an anti-patriarchy route; just an anti-establishment route, which is fair. …Although, I don't think there's any evidence of the establishment in Three Houses being against same-sex relationships, though it would make sense (in terms of worldbuilding) for the Crest-&-bloodline-obsessed nobility to be against it.

Pretty much all of this.

To elaborate a bit more, siding with Edelgard is anti-establishment and anti-tradition; people who hold those views often find the route resonates with them (in my admittedly completely anecdotal experience). While I don't think the game itself lumps the fight against homophobia in there, I think people can and do easily read in some parallels and common themes if they choose. It's a feeling which is reinforced by the fact that it's the route that features two exclusive same-sex S supports and two more who are native to the route.

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Pretty much all of this.

To elaborate a bit more, siding with Edelgard is anti-establishment and anti-tradition; people who hold those views often find the route resonates with them (in my admittedly completely anecdotal experience). While I don't think the game itself lumps the fight against homophobia in there, I think people can and do easily read in some parallels and common themes if they choose. It's a feeling which is reinforced by the fact that it's the route that features two exclusive same-sex S supports and two more who are native to the route.

Interesting. Yeah; anecdotal evidence is the weakest form of evidence, but it is interesting. 

I've only played the game using Male Byleth and I have yet to complete the game, and so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that the only significant differences between Male Byleth x Edelgard and Female Byleth x Edelgard is what people read into the two pairings, rather than any actual differences. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% (if not 100%) of the dialogue and the paired endings are exactly the same, to the point of neither ending mentioning producing children simply so that they wouldn't have to rewrite it to specify adoption or anything like that for Female Byleth x Edelgard. 

 

By the way, what did you think of my point about fanservice and how it applies to Rhea and Edelgard?

[Crysta]

Has there been much Edelgard fanservice? I think I've seen cipher art that was pretty lol but nothing in game suggesting that Edelgard is meant to appeal to the male gaze beyond being reasonably attractive and existing. Same with Rhea - she has entirely different creepy vibes.